Is Bitcoin the Trojan horse to help push the move to a world government?

[iamnotback]

Bitcoin removes the necessity of requiring third parties to keep track of personal transactions

Incorrect if you mean to imply that Bitcoin is not centralized:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1690725.msg16991114#msg16991114

The distinction is that the centralized entities are global. The nation-states can't regulate the miners. But the miners are centralized and will become ever more so. It is a winner-take-all economic paradigm. Why wouldn't the global elite love that?

Decentralized is not the same as distributed!

When I say that it is decentralized....I mean that no single entity has control over the contents of the ledger.

Proof-of-work mining is a winner-take-all economic paradigm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg16957687#msg16957687
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

[cjmoles]

Bitcoin removes the necessity of requiring third parties to keep track of personal transactions

Incorrect if you mean to imply that Bitcoin is not centralized:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1690725.msg16991114#msg16991114

The distinction is that the centralized entities are global. The nation-states can't regulate the miners. But the miners are centralized and will become ever more so. It is a winner-take-all economic paradigm. Why wouldn't the global elite love that?

Decentralized is not the same as distributed!

When I say that it is decentralized....I mean that no single entity has control over the contents of the ledger.

Proof-of-work mining is a winner-take-all economic paradigm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg16957687#msg16957687
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

But, how will they get my corn when I don't want their currency?  And, how will they recruit my labor if I am unable to purchase my food with their payment option?  They can have all the bitcoin in the world....it won't mean a thing if there isn't a willingness to use it to exchange real world production for real world service.....a measure's worth of food for a measure's worth of labor.  <----that's what everything boils down to and that is mankind's default setting....How will the global elite force us to use their platform when we decide  it has no use?

[Milkduds]

Bitcoin removes the necessity of requiring third parties to keep track of personal transactions

Incorrect if you mean to imply that Bitcoin is not centralized:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1690725.msg16991114#msg16991114

The distinction is that the centralized entities are global. The nation-states can't regulate the miners. But the miners are centralized and will become ever more so. It is a winner-take-all economic paradigm. Why wouldn't the global elite love that?

Decentralized is not the same as distributed!

When I say that it is decentralized....I mean that no single entity has control over the contents of the ledger.

Proof-of-work mining is a winner-take-all economic paradigm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg16957687#msg16957687
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

But, how will they get my corn when I don't want their currency?  And, how will they recruit my labor if I am unable to purchase my food with their payment option?  They can have all the bitcoin in the world....it won't mean a thing if there isn't a willingness to use it to exchange real world production for real world service.....a measure's worth of food for a measure's worth of labor.  <----that's what everything boils down to and that is mankind's default setting....How will the global elite force us to use their platform when we decide  it has no use?

You are looking at this from a sane mans vantage but this is not what we are dealing with in context to a dominating power,seeking to control the world.
In the Western world we think free will is ours and in more destroyed areas of the world people realize it is not free.
If any man can be broken through torture,what hope do you think bitcoiners have of staying above the water when government turns their gaze in our direction!
Its easy to spin and if you have money it is a tool you use to crush any opposition. Bitcoin can barely get the word out about its  self to the world and we think its going to survive a attack?
Not saying you are wrong because I think you are looking at bitcoin through a lens of bitcoin only and I like to pan out and look at the world shifts of late to draw in to the bitcoin discussion.
Mans default setting is different for some,if you read any holocaust books,they talk about some people surviving well others gave in. Its a very strange aspect about humans and I always wonder about that when ISIS is rounding up these men and they bunch together like this is not happening. Not judging them but it makes me uneasy seeing that aspect of life,it forces me to contemplate some values.

[iamnotback]

How will the global elite force us to use their platform when we decide  it has no use?

You attribute far too little apathy and far too much awareness to the sheepeople.

Besides there is a stronger force in play. Society can't function in complete chaos. Society requires a winner, especially w.r.t. to money.

So which money is society going to choose when all the globalized options are winner-take-all power vacuums? Would the people prefer their corrupt nation-state currencies and be shut off from a global marketplace?

India this week (with the cancellation of their largest currency notes) is a prime example. So the government can stop people from avoiding taxes and force them to give their money to government funded corruption. Yet of course the MSM tells you that ending black money is about reducing corruption, which is a lie. Idealistically taxes should always be voluntary.

[cjmoles]

Bitcoin removes the necessity of requiring third parties to keep track of personal transactions

Incorrect if you mean to imply that Bitcoin is not centralized:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1690725.msg16991114#msg16991114

The distinction is that the centralized entities are global. The nation-states can't regulate the miners. But the miners are centralized and will become ever more so. It is a winner-take-all economic paradigm. Why wouldn't the global elite love that?

Decentralized is not the same as distributed!

When I say that it is decentralized....I mean that no single entity has control over the contents of the ledger.

Proof-of-work mining is a winner-take-all economic paradigm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg16957687#msg16957687
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

But, how will they get my corn when I don't want their currency?  And, how will they recruit my labor if I am unable to purchase my food with their payment option?  They can have all the bitcoin in the world....it won't mean a thing if there isn't a willingness to use it to exchange real world production for real world service.....a measure's worth of food for a measure's worth of labor.  <----that's what everything boils down to and that is mankind's default setting....How will the global elite force us to use their platform when we decide  it has no use?

You are looking at this from a sane mans vantage but this is not what we are dealing with in context to a dominating power,seeking to control the world.
In the Western world we think free will is ours and in more destroyed areas of the world people realize it is not free.
If any man can be broken through torture,what hope do you think bitcoiners have of staying above the water when government turns their gaze in our direction!
Its easy to spin and if you have money it is a tool you use to crush any opposition. Bitcoin can barely get the word out about its  self to the world and we think its going to survive a attack?
Not saying you are wrong because I think you are looking at bitcoin through a lens of bitcoin only and I like to pan out and look at the world shifts of late to draw in to the bitcoin discussion.
Mans default setting is different for some,if you read any holocaust books,they talk about some people surviving well others gave in. Its a very strange aspect about humans and I always wonder about that when ISIS is rounding up these men and they bunch together like this is not happening. Not judging them but it makes me uneasy seeing that aspect of life,it forces me to contemplate some values.

Yes....I agree and I thought about that after I posted.  However, having a network already in place which brings the people together with a common goal actually shifts the power in a downward and outward direction, as opposed to an upward and inner concentration....ad unum omnes.  Yes, they could force us all into labor camps that serve their decadence, but is that something that the world will accept without a Marxist type of uprising?  Distributed networks aren't new, they're just digitized now.  Distributed intelligence networks proved effective in surviving the Russian Gulags. (The Gulag Archipelago: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, 1973).  How much more could blockchain technology fasten the distribution of information in such a way that makes it impossible to cut the head off of a movement?  A movement that has no leader?

[iamnotback]

cjmoles & Milkduds,

The globalists have ultimate control over the mining cartel that ultimately captures Bitcoin. Proof-of-work can't remain decentralized (even without scaling, but even more true the more it scales). Period. It is economically impossible.

So you can be as organized as you want to be, but that still doesn't give you any alternative money system which your idealistic hearts can prevent the powers-that-be from controlling.

I think both of you guys would prefer not to live in a civilization and instead revoke the maximum division-of-labor (i.e. Adam Smith's Invisible Hand) and go live "on the other side of moon" at the standard-of-living of the Amish. Well actually worse than that, because at least the Amish acknowledge trade with the outside world and its money system.

The rest of the world will not follow you there...

[cjmoles]

cjmoles & Milkduds,

The globalists have ultimate control over the mining cartel that ultimately captures Bitcoin. Proof-of-work can't remain decentralized (even without scaling, but even more true the more it scales). Period. It is economically impossible.

So you can be as organized as you want to be, but that still doesn't give you any alternative money system which your idealistic hearts can prevent the powers-that-be from controlling.

I think both of you guys would prefer not to live in a civilization and instead revoke the maximum division-of-labor (i.e. Adam Smith's Invisible Hand) and go live "on the other side of moon" at the standard-of-living of the Amish. Well actually worse than that, because at least the Amish acknowledge trade with the outside world and its money system.

The rest of the world will not follow you there...

But....if they "capture" all the bitcoin, then the bitcoin will have no value.  So, what would the motivation be behind the "globalist controlled mining cartels" acquisition of all the bitcoin.  Plus, mining requires energy, energy requires work, and work requires laborers....doesn't this describe a division of labor which promotes distribution of wealth?  That's not even to question what the effects of halving has on the mining outfits, nor does it address the consequences of full dilution....So, this is it: we can keep the fractional reserve banking systems and trust that the elite wont pull the carpet out from under us, or we can take out the middle man and reap what we sow.

[freshman777]

A splendid interview with Doug Casey that can put all your worries about the world government to rest.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/nick-giambruno/nation-states-brink-failure/

[calkob]

I dont think that bitcoin is the one that will be used but it defiantly paves the way for another government controlled currency, using crypto.

[iamnotback]

A splendid interview with Doug Casey that can put all your worries about the world government to rest.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/nick-giambruno/nation-states-brink-failure/

Doug Casey is a smart idiot, like most other tinfoil hats.

The disintegration of large nation-states into a plethora of smaller ones is precisely what creates the power vacuum that will make the world government possible. Duh.

Why do you think that Rothshilds is protecting Wikileaks and encouraging the destruction of the nation-state, by exposing corruption and for example fomenting a civil war between liberals and conservatives in the USA.

[iamnotback]

cjmoles & Milkduds,

The globalists have ultimate control over the mining cartel that ultimately captures Bitcoin. Proof-of-work can't remain decentralized (even without scaling, but even more true the more it scales). Period. It is economically impossible.

So you can be as organized as you want to be, but that still doesn't give you any alternative money system which your idealistic hearts can prevent the powers-that-be from controlling.

I think both of you guys would prefer not to live in a civilization and instead revoke the maximum division-of-labor (i.e. Adam Smith's Invisible Hand) and go live "on the other side of moon" at the standard-of-living of the Amish. Well actually worse than that, because at least the Amish acknowledge trade with the outside world and its money system.

The rest of the world will not follow you there...

But....if they "capture" all the bitcoin, then the bitcoin will have no value.

Capturing the control over mining doesn't transfer all the Bitcoin to them (each BTC holder can have control over his/her own private keys). It just means they can control what they want to control such as turning off the ability to transact for someone they deem to be a problem (the 666 Digital Kill Switch I predicted in 2013). They could then also inflate the money supply beyond 21 million coins and/or set transaction fees as high as the market will bear.

https://gist.github.com/shelby3/e90a45604969f1ed64395b0b72a56487
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/c0d6e0ed132be7e4577df3663c81ee09
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

That doesn't necessarily destroy the value of Bitcoin if they manage it well. It can also increase the value of Bitcoin, because it becomes an approved and accepted form of money in their IMF, World Bank, UN, etc global institutional system.

[freshman777]

A splendid interview with Doug Casey that can put all your worries about the world government to rest.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/nick-giambruno/nation-states-brink-failure/

Doug Casey is a smart idiot, like most other tinfoil hats.

The disintegration of large nation-states into a plethora of smaller ones is precisely what creates the power vacuum that will make the world government possible. Duh.

Why do you think that Rothshilds is protecting Wikileaks and encouraging the destruction of the nation-state, by exposing corruption and for example fomenting a civil war between liberals and conservatives in the USA.

If Doug Casey was an idiot, he'd be poor like a certain big mouth on these forums.

One world government was possible on the basis of creating large unions of countries (EU), this is now falling apart. US is divided too. How do you govern hundreds of small tribes? Power vacuum will not happen, there are a lot of leaders hungry for power, the vacuum will be filled on all levels at light speed.

[Przemax]

Op shame on you to burst bitcoiners bubble. They should ask epistemological questions - how bitcoin help the world? Does it underlies the mechanisms of the world? No. Does it make usury obsolete? Hell no... most of bitcoin users are happy earning money doing absolutely nothing at someone else expense. Does it makes superpowers weaker? No. It makes China stronger by them having most of bitcoin mines. And USA have a new "threat" on their list justifying enourmous spendings on surveilance.

Instead they think of bitcoin Ontologicly. By asking what is it? They say its just a tool. Its cool. It makes me rich therefore its good etc etc.

[hv_]

It will be considered a basic human right that Internet money and access be without borders/barriers. The globalists want this. I believe the elite created Bitcoin as a Trojan horse against nation-state and banking interests selfishness. They are using us to force a wedge between nation-states and banks, and the global village reality of the Internet

I don't really get this theory (conspiracy theory that is) about how Bitcoin is a trojan horse by the so called elite. Why would the elite deploy a software that is open source, and allows people to hide money from the government or anyone else but you and the other party?

Because the nation-states and banks are powerless to stop the lurch to crypto-currency and the global ledger. They simply don't have globalized jurisdiction. This creates a demand for a world government system, so that regulations can be placed on all countries at once. In this way, crypto-currency can be regulated later after the world government takes form. Until then, the nation-states will find themselves powerless to stop crypto-currency unless they shut off the Internet, which they can't do. Even China will succumb (the people already know how to use VPNs to subvert the Great Firewall of China).

I mean people that work for bitcoin, if they never cash out and buy with bitcoin... the circle is closed, government can't never tax any of that,

This is why the nation-states will need to support the creation of a world government. Bitcoin is the Trojan horse that forces them to.

... they will never know how much bitcoin a person that got bitcoin within bitcoin ecosystem be it by mining or by working in exchange of bitcoin has... so what's the point?

Well Bitcoin is traceable if you have the resources of the NSA, but other countries don't have those resources. And more anonymous coins are underway, so yes ultimately governments can't track it if they can't regulate it globally to force a government viewkey to be attached to every transaction. Again crypto-currency breaks the authority of nation-states and renders banks irrelevant. It thus drives the need for a world government and a world bank.

If I was the elite, I would be hating bitcoin and having nightmares about it. I don't see how the elites benefit from bitcoin.

Grasshopper you don't think in sophisticated logic, and that is one reason why you could not ever be a member of the global elite.

Bitcoin is working perfectly as they designed it to do.

Ask yourself this. Does Bitcoin eliminate the need for people to borrow money and will Bitcoin prevent fractional reserve lending? The answer to both is no. And so the business of the global elite is still intact, while they destroy all their competitors with the Bitcoin Trojan horse.

I think bitcoin was simply the work of crypto anarchists/hackers. They saw that the future is digital, and that governments will deploy closed source currencies where they have total control. They saw this coming, and released bitcoin as a way to fight against that. Therefore I don't buy the conspiracy theory of bitcoin being a trojan horse, since I fail to see how the elite benefits in any way from it.

That is of course what they knew you would think. Masterful their plan. They know very well, you could not possible conceive of them making Bitcoin and instead you want to believe that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person. Lol. Larry Summers has a bellyache from laughing too much.

Thanks for your great OP that made me thinking of this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1695006.0

[ivanst776]

No, I don't think that bitcoin is the trojan horse because it is already in the public the bitcoin so it is not something secret.

And one thing that we should notice is that if the governments want they can shut down and ban the bitcoin businesses and the bitcoin infrastructure itself.

[Kprawn]

I think these "Blockchain based" technologies that are being created by R3 and the banks might be the first step towards that agenda. They

need a technology where they have the control, and Bitcoin is definitely not a technology that are being controlled by a single entity. Would

you choose Bitcoin, if that was your agenda.. Nope, you would get a team of developers to develop your own "Tool" so that you can control

and manipulate all the aspects of this technology... not wait for consensus from the public to do what you want to do. 

[pereira4]

It will be considered a basic human right that Internet money and access be without borders/barriers. The globalists want this. I believe the elite created Bitcoin as a Trojan horse against nation-state and banking interests selfishness. They are using us to force a wedge between nation-states and banks, and the global village reality of the Internet

I don't really get this theory (conspiracy theory that is) about how Bitcoin is a trojan horse by the so called elite. Why would the elite deploy a software that is open source, and allows people to hide money from the government or anyone else but you and the other party?

Because the nation-states and banks are powerless to stop the lurch to crypto-currency and the global ledger. They simply don't have globalized jurisdiction. This creates a demand for a world government system, so that regulations can be placed on all countries at once. In this way, crypto-currency can be regulated later after the world government takes form. Until then, the nation-states will find themselves powerless to stop crypto-currency unless they shut off the Internet, which they can't do. Even China will succumb (the people already know how to use VPNs to subvert the Great Firewall of China).

I mean people that work for bitcoin, if they never cash out and buy with bitcoin... the circle is closed, government can't never tax any of that,

This is why the nation-states will need to support the creation of a world government. Bitcoin is the Trojan horse that forces them to.

... they will never know how much bitcoin a person that got bitcoin within bitcoin ecosystem be it by mining or by working in exchange of bitcoin has... so what's the point?

Well Bitcoin is traceable if you have the resources of the NSA, but other countries don't have those resources. And more anonymous coins are underway, so yes ultimately governments can't track it if they can't regulate it globally to force a government viewkey to be attached to every transaction. Again crypto-currency breaks the authority of nation-states and renders banks irrelevant. It thus drives the need for a world government and a world bank.

If I was the elite, I would be hating bitcoin and having nightmares about it. I don't see how the elites benefit from bitcoin.

Grasshopper you don't think in sophisticated logic, and that is one reason why you could not ever be a member of the global elite.

Bitcoin is working perfectly as they designed it to do.

Ask yourself this. Does Bitcoin eliminate the need for people to borrow money and will Bitcoin prevent fractional reserve lending? The answer to both is no. And so the business of the global elite is still intact, while they destroy all their competitors with the Bitcoin Trojan horse.

I think bitcoin was simply the work of crypto anarchists/hackers. They saw that the future is digital, and that governments will deploy closed source currencies where they have total control. They saw this coming, and released bitcoin as a way to fight against that. Therefore I don't buy the conspiracy theory of bitcoin being a trojan horse, since I fail to see how the elite benefits in any way from it.

That is of course what they knew you would think. Masterful their plan. They know very well, you could not possible conceive of them making Bitcoin and instead you want to believe that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person. Lol. Larry Summers has a bellyache from laughing too much.

You bring some good points, but don't you think you are making big assumptions without knowing the actual truth? You are assuming that every country on the planet would agree to be part of that so called World Government, because you are assuming no country would benefit from leaving bitcoin free outside of their business. I claim this is not the case. There will always be some countries that find business into not being part of that World Government while being positive towards bitcoin. For example, I see countries like Switzerland becoming a place that will be very supportive of bitcoin. In fact, they are right now going on that direction:

https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/further-services/bitcoin.html

Simply put: No matter what, I don't see a global agreement ever happening. There will always be places that will let you host bitcoin nodes, and have financial privacy, therefore the network will always exist.

You also claim how the NSA has unlimited resources to track users, yet, according to leaked Snowden documents, NSA is on record saying how much they literally hate TOR. Now, we know that TOR is the work of the NSA/US intelligence itself, yet we have documents that prove they hate their own creation... this could be extrapolated to Bitcoin assuming that the conspiracy theory of Bitcoin being the work of the NSA (or any government agency you want to link it to). If that were to be true, then it could also be true that they hate their own creation because it got out of their hands and now they can't control it.

In any case, I still think Satoshi Nakamoto is not necessary a single person but a small group of crypto-anarchists/hackers, some of them might be current Bitcoin developers (Adam Back is credited in the whitepaper for example). I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but I will admit we can't fully know, just like we can't fully know how the universe was created, yet you seem to talk as if you know the truth when at the end of the day we are just having some fun speculating about it.

[iamnotback]

No, I don't think that bitcoin is the trojan horse because it is already in the public the bitcoin so it is not something secret.

The original Trojan horse was publicly wheeled inside the gates. Study history.

And one thing that we should notice is that if the governments want they can shut down and ban the bitcoin businesses and the bitcoin infrastructure itself.

Lol, you entirely didn't understand the thread. Try again to read.

[iamnotback]

If Doug Casey was an idiot, he'd be poor like a certain big mouth on these forums.

In your case, pride cometh before the fall. In Doug's he is smart enough, as I said. He is still a tinfoil hat idiot. He managed to hire some people who are not idiots.

One world government was possible on the basis of creating large unions of countries (EU), this is now falling apart. US is divided too. How do you govern hundreds of small tribes? Power vacuum will not happen, there are a lot of leaders hungry for power, the vacuum will be filled on all levels at light speed.

Thanks for confirming you don't know the applicable meaning of "power vacuum" in this context.

[0xfff]

Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?