Bitcoin Forum

Hey everyone, I just got a PM from new user, bitcoin7.com, telling me about their new exchange, I've checked it out some and boy does it look classy!
Check it out for yourselves, and if we could, would it be possible to whitelist the user so they can give a proper introduction themself?

www.bitcoin7.com (http://www.bitcoin7.com)

+1 for a good looking exchange.

Lets hope it works as well as it looks.

1 BTC is $1USD not bad!

best of luck with your venture

How much were you paid to make this posting?

bitcoin7 contacted me, and offered me coins in exchange for a positive forum posting.

They have never heard of AML, and are run by unknowns from Bulgaria.

I checked out the site. Looks good

---

http://www.bitcoinconnection.com/bitcoin7.jpg (https://www.bitcoin7.com/?ref=5973)
20% Referral Bonus (https://www.bitcoin7.com/?ref=5973)
http://www.bitcoin7.com/ (https://www.bitcoin7.com/?ref=5973)

Glad to see people are keeping this post on the forefront, i think it is really important that more exchanges are known about. Decentralize people!  ;D
unfortunetly I have to get back on the road and won't get to watch this develop, the user is offline now, but should be on soon to speak for himself. Oh, if it is not clear, I am not a part of this site in anyway, I just gained knowledge of it a few moments ago. Take care!

Not bad, just correct a few typos on the site.

There are two companies involved - one in Las Vegas, Nevada and the other in Bulgaria. It is in their 'about' section.

Fees seem to be 0.57% round-turn, and there is a referral program.

Be interesting to see how it operates.

be wary people  before you start dropping hard earned cash into things!

nothing. i didn't get offered anything, if admin wants they can check my PMs and vouch. here is quote of the PM


Jgarzic, just so you know, in most societies it would have been more classy to ask IF i was getting paid then to accuse me OF getting paid.

Yes, these people are total unknowns in the community.  Be wary.

I agree, always be careful when handing any assets over to strangers. maybe if you post the PM you got, that would be good. offering money to a long time poster for a positive post sounds suspicious. also, maybe elaborate on what you said for those who don't know what AML is.

looks pretty pro, although the orangeyness is grating already.

Anyone wanna give me a refferal?

This is the kind of pertinent information we need to make informed decisions.
Site looks decent, but its in bulgaria, and eastern europe isnt
know for its transparent and honest monetary dealings. 

Did some basic 'net research and their server is regged via RIPE to a contact in Bulgaria. At least they didn't try to host it in the US.

I do agree caution is needed, but I think there's enough there to try some fractional trades just to kick the tires.

https://www.bitcoin7.com/?ref=5980

Or you can use mine :D : https://www.bitcoin7.com/?ref=5982

Finally an exchange decided to add the Paysafecard option. I just don't understand what does Estimated cost 0-12% with this option mean? Anyone has a clue?

What?! An exchange that the long arm of the United States government can't reach easily?

Sounds terrifying!

At the present time, eastern European cybercrime is a far more clear, present and real danger to bitcoin users.

The more exchanges the better. This is one field where natural selection will yield something that everyone can use.

You guys realize that all the text on that site / options is an exact rip from www.tradehill.com


That doesn't instill a lot of confidence....

"I can't afford to write my own text but I'm happy to hold all  your money."

I don't see any way to deposit/withdraw BTC.  I didn't actually sign up though.

wow! that should certainly been known by anybody putting money in there. that coupled with the accusation that he offered jgarzik coins to promote him is making things smell bad to me..

Alot of cyber crime in Europe comes from Bulgaria and Rumania. Its a known fact. I would be very causious with this new exchange!

Well tweet it, post it everything else it's a polished site but a complete rip.
If you look at it under the faq you'll see it even says "incorporated in Chile" which is where we (TradeHill) are incorporated.
Seriously please spread the word. Things like this are horrible for Bitcoin.
Even if he's not just there to steal your btc do you really want to use a site that stole their entire text?

I do take it as a compliment though  ;D

Seriously, please spread this and compare the two for your self if you doubt it.

Here is the first paragraph of the first email sent to me by bitcoin7:


(emphasis added... mine)

Super sketchy about copying TH. I'm not touching them with the 10ft pole I usually poke new sites with.

Exactly, I keep seeing it getting tweeted and I'm worried a bunch of people will jump in, get burned and give BTC a bad name.
He basically took everything TradeHill and added a larger referral fee and said you get paid to do trades.
I don't know how this doesn't set off red flags.

This is just the first of many to come is my guess.

-Jered

Here's my experience with Bitcoin7:

I transferred $1750 from MtGox to Bitcoin7.  It took 4 hours to clear.

I bought just under 100btc.  $5.238 was added to my account as a "promo bonus".

I transfered those btc to my wallet.

They showed up immediately as 0/unconfirmed.  They are now sitting at 6 confirmations.

Maybe they cut corners on the text, but they don't seem to be outright thieves.

Jere

It would also probably be more profitable to build and promote a legit exchange out of US government control. However, it would also make sense to go in for the long haul until there's lots of BTC sitting in wallets at Bitcoin7 before shutting down and taking all that sweet, sweet BTC with them.

Well, it's not a very good scam if it's immediately detected.  A smart scammer builds up a bunch of USD and bitcoin deposits, and then disappears.

And now they have you vouching for them and more will deposit. I'm not saying I know it's a scam, but it seems like a decent chance given the offer to pay Jgarzik and the copied text.

Cut corners on the text = copied all the text on the entire site and did find and replace with TradeHill for Bitcoin7.

Maybe not outright thieves in regards to cash yet but they've obviously proven they don't mind taking from other people.
Also I wouldn't trust an exchange that couldn't even proof read the text they copied.

Agreed!

I did not pay attention till now, plain and simple it's theft there is no 2 ways around it.

I'm not vouching. I'm just sharing my experience.

Considering the massive offense that we (as a community) take when someone calls Bitcoin a scam, we sure are quick to accuse others of being scams.

Jere

just now in irc: <jgarzik> SCAM WARNING -- bitcoin7

It is highly suspicious when the site operators do not appear on the forums or IRC or otherwise introduce themselves and build trust.

Rather, they simply hand out free money.  They first contacted prominent members of the community in an attempt to proxy trust.

An exchange is a huge responsibility, basically a bank, and there is literally zero rep.

Legitimate question here: how did you do that?  I see thatBitcoin7 lists it as a funding option, but the MtGox page seems to imply that you can only send USD to another MtGox user.

I suspect that they have a MtGox account.

Jere

On googling bitcoin7's listed phone number, I get an "XS software (http://www.xs-software.com/)" in Bulgaria, who have made several browser games including something called Khan Wars.

However, you look up their address and get some "internet pharmaceutical solutions (http://www.adipharm.com)" place" at the same address, along with XS software again, medical goods, and a baby products website (http://www.iventas.bg) that strikes me as mysteriously creepy, but then again I'm creeped out by babies in general. I mean, they're tiny humans. If you took an adult human and shrank them down, that would be really creepy. That's what a baby is, only younger and fatter. If anyone debates me on this point, I challenge them to a bat fight.

So is this just some mail/phone routing service or is this company really that broad? Their whois has jack shit and their attorney's website (http://www.rashev.net) is hilarious.

As I live in Bulgaria - it's not "broad" but as most of the Bulgarian companies they probably act as jack-of-all-trades. There are many companies here that operate as importer, distributor, retail and account company under the same legal registration. Even truer for smaller companies.

That doesn't really make them less trustworthy though, it is not like all escrow companies are registered in EU or USA... ;)

As you live in Bulgaria, you should know Bulgaria is in EU  :P

Money laundering. But it's possible those shits to turn out the relatively positive rating of Bulgarian home miners to negative... Nobody would wanna trade with users from known (cyber)crime country.

I suggest to all to not trade with them immediately - just wait some time (4-5 weeks) for receiving good reviews and if you wanna to give it a try then use very small BTC/money amounts.

??? You mean USA?  How a whole country can be known as crime country? It's like too many ppl to generalise.

@Topic
Maybe they've copied all text from Trade Hill, but polish translation is ok for me. They used human to translate it for sure :)

That's the real truth. People usually avoid obstacles after: 1. Crash in that obstacle ; 2. Hear words from people already crashed ...

You know - from the Beginning a man can succesfully sell an air conditioner to eskimo ... ac is usually broken

And no - I didn't mean USA, just trying to generalise the whole picture. Bad things can happen in all over the world...

What does this has to do with my post though? I have implied that most companies are not EU/USA based, actually, while this one is. Sure, Bulgaria is like one of the few broken bones in the EU tail, but still :)

I am pretty sure that at least part of the text on TradeHill itself was also copied from elsewhere. The FAQ for example.

Well is it true that you can register a company in Bulgaria for only 1 euro?

Using the word 'exchange' in Bulgaria without being regulated by the financial authorities is illegal. And this might result in their accounts in every bulgarian bank they use to be suspended and blocked! This can happen after a month or two but it may happen tomorrow as well.

I don't trust them just yet either but don't you think a plausible explanation for using your text on their site might be due to them being Bulgarians and lacking skills in the English language but wanted to sound legit?

when i try to access the page im gettin this message: is it ok or.. ?

http://i56.tinypic.com/5vwy1y.jpg

uh oh patriot act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-money_laundering

OK, lemme get this straight:

- complete unknowns
- cannot be bothered to post themselves (don't see how you can miss the 5 post/4 hour rule)
- offered a developer money to promote them (this should ring alarm bells)
- get (apparently random) newbies to promote them
- operate from Las Vegas/Bulgaria (who owns the casinos, anyone?)
- ripped off Tradehill (no morals, no trust)
- can't be bothered to have a valid SSL certificate
- offer double the referral rate compared to Tradehill (too good to be true)
- "1 BTC is $1USD not bad!" (WTF? definitely too good to be true)

This just screams scam. Obviously most effective when they wait until enough people have decided it isn't. Or possibly fed stomps on other exchanges.

1 euro and 2 cents :P

maybe im not very objective, but cyber crime in bulgaria is big...

Hello everyone, I am sorry for responding so late... it was a REALLY busy day for us.
I see a lot of bad things written in this topic, although it started very good.
I hope after today's trade and satisfied users the opinion will change. We are trying to do our best in being as fast as possible in add/withdraw funds,
as well as offer the best conditions.

I will paste my reply to the original topic in the Trade section which we were monitoring today as a start-up reply:

First of all thanks for posting about the site, it was a really hard first day. We are still working out the delays in withdraw/add funds, but everything is going
good and great and we think we will stabilize normal speed of operation within a day or two.

However, I have to admit that after reading Jered's post I am really ashamed. We contracted external copywriters for most of the texts on the side. Indeed there are 100% exact extracts from Tradehill (at least in English). It seems they have really misunderstood what "copywriter" means ... We certainly didn't want that to happen, originality and imagination is one of the most important thing when building up a web business.
After dealing with all the organizational problems we will work out all texts and compliment Jered.

We want to present another alternative and we are sure we will offer the best service to customers, you can even see that we allow transfers from MTGOX (if Tradehill agrees we can do that with them too). We see a great opportunity in Bitcoin7 and we really believe it is very important to diversify the markets on such early stage. For a decentralized currency we can't allow to have 90% of all transactions to go through 1 market...

We have the experience to do it. JKMinkov, your check is correct. The management of Bitcoin7 is the management of an international mio company in the gaming industry. We know virtual currency for quit a long time and we recognized the potential of Bitcoin. I hope we will be able to push Bitcoin7 to be a leading trading platform in the area of Bitcoins.

I hope even after the not so good start you will hear good words about us the following days.

Come and try us, some people made already AWESOME deals, taking advantage of the early start

AML is being integrated at the moment. To fully release it however we need to get certified, also processed at the moment.
Don't think we don't support that, the moment we have the moment we will integrate it. This was meant to be a test run anyway.

Interesting that this topic went the way that Bulgaria is famous for internet crime. What crime exactly?
Aren't there phishing sites in the US (or in Chili??), illegal porn, frauds etc. Of course there are...

Non of the current exchanges (or at least to my knowledge) has the experience in holding and operating a multilingual high-traffic site.
I hope this would be one of our advantages, we are already doing over 30 Mio impressions and TBs of traffic on our other pages DAILY.

I hope we will be able to provide:
- decently fast responses.
- good rates, competitive
- good alternatives (we are aiming in implementing more than 100 payment methods)
- secure BTC's image - AML/License are the beginning. It's about properly informing the communities WHICH are outside of this forum about the positive sides of a decentralized currency, not about the people who are here already.

I just hope this first impression won't influence a lot of the readers, who will not trust us and will continue to trade on mtgox (holding over 90% of all trades) or other Chilian alternatives. (no offense TH, although you have good reason to be mad at us, I don't think this is the right way to compete)

I think we ought to give this new exchange a chance. Things started off a bit rocky, but it seems that was just due to the fact that Bitcoin7 might have gone live a few days before it was fully prepared. Opening an exchange entails a lot of work, and when TradeHill first started up we saw similar delays in response (as I remember it, when TH opened they didn't have a forum account either). If you don't trust the site don't trade there! But don't bad mouth them without any concrete evidence to indicate they're crooks.

You first.. I'll be right behind you, honest!

@JellyFishRancher and mintaka: Thank you guys, we really appreciate that - at last some sun on the horizon :)

Just one more thing about the negative things, said here regarding cybercrime and Bulgaria...

- After all, the most famous (correct me if I am wrong) Bitcoin miner is written by m0mchil - remarkable BG developer, many people owe their coin productions to his miner :)
- Check out Alexa on Mtgox: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mtgox.com -> it seems the BG community is leading #1 on the local rankings there.

I hope we will be less "strangers" to this community.

You can choose to ignore this post ;) it came more like a patriotic response than a business or BTC related one ... (defense vs bad critic:)
We will try to develop the website as a global platform, using our current partners abroad plus any new ones we encounter down the road.

You have no license to be an exchange in Bulgaria, bitcoin7. How would you compensate your customers if your bank accounts are suspended?

Bitcoin7 is not offering any type of fiat currency exchange <- for this you 100% you need a license.

For Virtual currency <-> Fiat deposit collection we don't have to be licensed 100%, but we have to be controlled and subject to verification (which we are currently doing)

Of course, we are sure that with BTC growing more and more popular there will be new regulations which we will need to adopt.

If you are dealing with BTC you should know very good that still there are many unclear things and you are doing that on your own risk. Otherwise you wouldn't be in this forum I guess.. :)



P.S we have been trading/exchanging/buying/purchasing online virtual currency in online games on more than 36 languages for 6 years. We have passed 2 successful audits without having our service suspended or our accounts closed.

Can you quote some relevant authority regarding those audits? I.e can we verify that statement somehow?

I think you are refering to my 10 days unpaid withdrawal request

06/07/11 16:56   Withdraw Funds   acb0cf5a-878c-4e1d-8880-5aaab4489e81

Being a Bulgarian miner, I'm trully offended by a large number of posts in that particular topic. It made it clear that this community suffers the same paranoia we all try to fight while spreading the BTC word. That kind of general speaking and proofless attacks are really not the way ...

It's normal for everybody to be cautious. Especially for the past few days the exchange situation is really intense. Caution is always needed when trading online ... but not to a degree of histerical paranoia. MtGox are delaying some funds of mine for more than a week, but do I call them scammers? No. I preffer the civil way - wait for an answer (few days now) just like anybody else.
I haven't signed up at bitcoin7.com yet, despite of the pleasant sight of a Bulgarian BTC exchange. Even when I do that, I'll start trading with small ammounts just to be sure. I'm being cautious ... just like with any other exchange ... no matter Bulgarian, Chilean, Polish, Japanese or whatever ...

It is an exchange for bitcoins AND fiat currencies!

For fiat deposit collection you have to be licensed 100%! You can't be licensed 63% or 29%.

If you really are who you are saying (company experienced with online currency), you should be aware of the rules (law) and business practices (common sense), such as not going live before you have this very necessary stuff in place. You can't claim a Google and slap a beta sticker on it. You are live, with real money. Does it even say anywhere you are 'trialing'? Have you told anyone? If you are truly serious about this you immediately stop trading until you have the proper licensing and notify all customers of this, with the option to withdraw all funds at no cost. Yeah, that sucks if you're legit. But that's the only way you will recover any kind of trust.


How about jgarzik's assertion that you offered coin for promotion? That's a violation of business ethics (bribery), which if it has got nothing to do with the country, then it has everything to do with you. Or was it another overzealous intern? Who is responsible for hiring? Who is responsible for hiring them? Come to think of it, what is your position within the company?


At this point we don't even know you are who you claim to be.


See above. If that is true your number one goal should be to not continue to appear like a scammer.


ROFL, nice reverse psychology there, you rip them off and now you are the poor victim and they are mean bad guys? You are already found out, (passive) agression only makes it worse.

Even if you are legit, I would never want to do business with you simply because you have failed miserably on due diligence and don't appear to care. And that for a business which must rely heavily on trust and should be eminently aware of this.

Just for the record...

I was offered money to post good things about this exchange site.

I have no idea who runs it....   although the text on the site appears to be copied and pasted directly word-for-word from TradeHill.com

Who created that site?

It is a total scamming fraud?

It's kind of a shame if this is a scam. The Bitcoin7.com website has a visual appeal and better user interface far above what we're currently seeing at Mt. Gox and Tradehill.

Time will tell whether this is legit or not. Although, $15/BTC seems really low at the moment for an instant buy... good thing that feature isn't working ;)

I just used their site to purchase some bitcoins. I found the experience satisfying. They were able to pull my funds from Dwolla instantly, unlike MtGox which can take forever.

I don't know how good their online security is. Because they are new, I would suggest withdrawing fast, at least until they have a reputation.

Well i just made a sizeable transfer to see if they are real if not I do have family in the surrounding areas that are great collectors :)
they use alittle force to get their money. LOL
says take about 1-3 hours to see my funds in their site iwill post my findings.

Yeah I'm sure your family can easily find some unknown in Bulgaria and give him a beating or two. Its the internet if he scams your money never expect it back. By the way most people who threaten violence over the internet and then add "LOL" at the end of their post probably aren't very menacing at all.

Not worried about it the how mean i sound i dont have to be when it is the other members of the family's investment they will go after it not me. and yes i do have family in different areas of the world right now.
thanks for your input though

That's bad... The proper way would be to sponsor your show...

Has anyone who has a record here on this forum longer then two months successfully withdrawn money to Dwolla on bitcoin7.com?

How about a withdrawal of bitcoins, is it instant?

I can confirm that trading, sending USD from MtGox and withdrawing BTC worked.
I didn't get scammed, got nearly 1 BTC extra in some nice trades, withdrew BTC and am happy... well, kind of.

I won't use that site any longer though, as the owner confirmed in another post that they store money values as 32-bit floats!
'nuff said.

The idea itself, the design etc. is quite well done though and I also really don't get the sudden bashing of Eastern Europeans in this thread!

Dwolla is not possible for me (and I would also much rather trade in EUR, but the 2 other exchanges are both on the other side of the globe...), so no confirmation on that.

Thanks. If it's not a scam, they have no business ethics whatsoever. Occam's Razor says..

Well so far 2.5 hours later I transferd $200 cash they took $2.00 I have 198.00 available in my account
I also sent 17.57 BTC for test seconds after and those have NOT shown up yet.
I went to use my usd funds to buy btc I got this message:

Instant buy/sell is currently unavailable. Our team is developing this feature at the moment.
Planned release date: 21. June 2010

Instant buying of BTC is temporary unavailable. Please check again later this week.

if this is NOT functional it should NOT be accessible and viewable it is misleading.

 I have proceeded to with draw my funds since there is NO BTC to be bought.
so we will see if the funds hit my Dwolla account

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is what they said in a email to me:

Hello Robert,

Please excuse us for the delay.

The USD are in your account already.

The BTC you sent will take longer to clear. Please note that we can accept only cash transfered from Mtgox. To transfer your BTC now,
i will need to pass this request to our development team.

I hope you will have them in your account in 1-2 h.

For future transfers from Mtgox please transfer cash directly, but load BTC from your own wallet.

Once again excuse us for the delay.

Good Luck trading

Chris,
Bictoin7
_-------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd response
Robert,

We can't add your BTC in your Bitcoin7 account as I wrote before.
The mtgox account integration allows us to accept the USD payment.

Your BTC are transferred also successfully, but we need to transfer them now manually to your Bitcoin7 account.

Please note this might take a little longer, I have already started the process.

Chris

(so far if everything is going right they are at least proactive now)
this is a good test of business ethics for them everything turns out good then this proves that maybe they are ok company to deal with they just need to get their  shit done first before advertising it to be use full) Just my opinion.

--------------------------------------------
DWOLLA Transfer successful from their site i got it in minutes.
Money In
Source    Date    Amount
Risk Asset Management LLC 812-564-5945    06/15/2011 11:43:40 PM    $198.00 Details
Thats 2 stars so far :) for good work- now lets see what happens with BTC.

Withdraw Bitcoin
Successful

You have successfully withdrawn 17.56 BTC to your Bitcoin wallet
I only lost .01 btc to transfer traction fee is all!

Nice site Chris was a great help i wish you all the best just make sure you get everything fully working then advertise it and soon as it is you have proven to be trust worthy in my book i will use your services.

And no they did not offer me anything to try it if they weren't 100% on the up and up they would not have jumped through MY HOOPS to save business
face on a public forum.

BOW
clap
Very good bitcoin7.com I applaud your business ethics keep it up.

@ Sukrim: we don't store in floats. We keep the accuracy up to floats, but store numbers in a more "integer" way. I can't share more on the technical side of this matter

@ Bruce & other: we asked few of the people who we knew on this community if they can help us with finding good, reliable members on the forum who can test our service and post on the forum for it. We also wanted to add bonus BTC for such start-up promotion. I don't see this as a bribery in any possible way. If someone got paid from us (not third party referral) please confirm here...

@ Nescio: I have to agree with some of your accusation. It is true that we were not good prepared for the launch. We didn't expect such boom, we wanted a small start with a small group of reliable members, so we can acquire feedback. However the negative boom on the forum yesterday made this impossible and we had to work 24/7 to provide the server we wanted to provide on the long run. On the legal side, I can assure you that according to the jurisdiction we are subject of we are completely legal and we can operate while being candidate for audit. I hope very soon we will be able to update the site with the needed information from a third party as an auditor, until then I can't post anything about this on the forum. (of course risking the scamming accusations to continue).

@ AML accusations: Have you tried contacting MTGOX about their AML policy? Most of the trustworthy to us bitcoin users showed us their experience - how mtgox raises the withdrawal limits immediately without waiting for ID or the hardcopy of any identification to arrive. Nothing bad about MTGOX, we respect their contribution and their leadership on the market. I just want to say that at the moment even the leader is struggling with the problem, how exactly to establish and follow proper aml/verification in order to preserve this business.

@ Klamothonsite: Thank you for trusting us :)

You should, because "we store numbers in a more integer way" is hardly reassuring.


Why don't you just post the messages you sent them, let other people to judge if your proposition was appropriate.
Right now we only know Bruce Wagner's and Jeff Garzick's version ("speak about us good and we give you money").

bittersweet, digging further on this will help neither the users nor Bitcoin7.
We are thinking of what we can put on the site in order to confirm what we have been writing over the forum the last day.

We will be very happy if we switch the direction of the topic towards:

* feedback from actual users, who used the service - negative or positive
  - negative: we will see what we can do to improve
  - positive: we hope this will start clearing bc7's name

* impressions and suggestions - of everyone, even if you haven't used the service
  - User Interface: what can we do better in order to ensure easy, safe, fast nagivation through sites
  - Language: phrases we can improve (besides English, which is being totally redone at the moment, because of TH)
  - Features - some features which you find useful. They maybe from other sites or they may be something completely new

* feedback about other services like mtgox or th
  - What are they doing better than us
  - What do they have as site content which we still don't offer and why is this valuable to you

Appealing to all future writers in this topic: Let's try and really write about these things. You will see that you will gain much more if you let us know what exactly can we improve or what exactly did we do wrong servicing you (again so we can improve). This is something which can bring result to everyone + the BTC development as a whole.

We will try to respond to each suggestion/complaint - as long as it's from a real user and not someone who just wishes to blame us without trying us.

Also for personal questions and anonymity we suggest you better address our support team at: info@bitcoin7.com

I don't see why you all are so scandalized with the idea of paying people for advertising the site... that doesn't imply they are scammers. I wouldn't call it bribery either. It is just one among many techniques of advertising, like when companies pay celebrities to "speak good" about their products on TV.

Hallo evryone, I R from Romania, do not trust me lulz!!!!121 No butt I am serial!!!!?

I'll personally wait for them to publish their transaction history, real market depth chart and other stats like total trade volumes, that we can verify. Their web design, lower fees and transaction options are very appealing.

Hello, you can see them already: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
Bitcoincharts published Bitcoin7 yesterday. Index is b7USD

Neat, looks cool, except for that drop there
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=853&m=mtgoxUSD&k=b7USD&r=5&i=&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&SubmitButton=Draw&

I'm worried that nobody trades EUR nowhere, even the europeans, what is up with that?

You guys should take a look at this topic (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17004.20). Bitcoin7 has some huge gaping security flaws.

source

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idINN1510930920110615


in Britcoin we trust...

and for the record I don't trust someone called Amir, as you don't trust a Bulgarian.

I'm still waiting for EUR trading on MtGox or TradeHill... The ONLY fully escrowed exchange (meaning you can send them money and bitcoins and they send out money and bitcoins) where it's possible to deposit EUR is bitcoin7 atm.
The others (tradehill + mtgox) convert to USD.

If you go otc or "half-otc" (like bitmarket.eu), you can trade EUR as well.

There's also a german exchange currently in tryout beta but not with live money yet - if that takes off, I'm also very much in favor of trading EUR than USD (which are somehow expected to crash...).

Until Bitcoin7 switches from floats to integers (or at least acknowledges that this is a problem!), I would not go anywhere near them, despite what I said before.

I guess we should start boycotting the products that athletes promote. Oh and we should all start boycotting the products that stores offer through coupons in the newspaper. $0.20 off is bribery isn't it? Buy one get one free? For shame, for shame.

We should also not use an ISP if they offer you the first month for free.

Cash back on a car purshase? Bad taste, no?

Come on people.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17004.msg226321#msg226321


Can you say CSRF?

This is really getting ridiculous. Can someone show a real result from any successful "exploit" ?

I am not saying we are 100% bulletproof, we are constantly monitoring for flaws. But the small security gaps were closed a minute after the post and there are no "exploits" (at least known).

Small security gaps like instantly withdrawing to arbitrary addresses.


Did you fix the trade issue?

*checks*

nope.
 

cuddlefish can you show a result of the gap you found? I didn't see you withdraw to an arbitrary address.

Bruce,

Weren't you offered money to push TradeHill too?  Seems they are a sponsor of your podcast, and you actually pushed them on a thread with your referral code.  So much that people in the original thread thought that YOU were the creator of TradeHill (and I have heard and read that confusion from MULTIPLE people on here).

(see https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13650.0;all especially messages 15, 19, 22, 33, and your ultra-hype intro message!)

I'm not saying you did anything wrong.  People can draw their own conclusions.  I just think transparency is a good thing. 

Bitcoin7 offered you money.  TradeHill offered you something, no?  Sponsorship?  A cut of everyone's trades who uses your referral code?  Money?

I think this whole, "I was offered money" is being taken out of context. I was also contacted by B7 and was "informed" that their service provides a referral bonus.

On behalf of Bitcoin7.com I would like to ask you if you would be
interested to review our new BTC exchange, maybe tell us some
feedback.
Would it be possible to recommend us to your friends? (we have 20%
referral program)
Condemn them for that I guess....

I've been doing my own research on them and yes we all have security concerns but please be professional before letting emotion overtake you and lead you to false accusation. And for the love of god please respect other people's cultures as presently the US has over 800 military bases throughout the world conducting how many wars(?) pushing the US dollar down people's throats with the barrel of a gun!!!

Perhaps I wasn't very clear.  I was trying to point out that if Bruce's was trying to say that Bitcoin7 did something wrong, he didn't have a strong case, after all his hyping (and payoff?!) from TradeHill.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with the promotions in either case.  There are clearly issues with Bitcoin7 (technical, and their responses in forums), but unethical promotion isn't one that I would hold against them based on Bruce's word, particularly after his TradeHill introduction and misleading people (intentionally or unintentionally) that he was the site's creator.

My apologies jerfelix, I wasn't directing that towards you......it was generally speaking.

I originally read that as proactively seeking regulation from the government (like I'm thinking about going to the local tax office to get their stance on Bitcoin before I jump into it), but you are right it could be read that they don't have the necessary paperwork yet either. I guess the main difference is that they didn't rip off Tradehill, or tried to grease luminaries.


If that's aimed at me, maybe that was lost in the sarcasm (because bitcoin7 was pulling the same slur) but I specifically said I don't trust the person/organization, not the country. But you're right, Amirs can't be trusted ;D


Apples and Oranges. A better analogy would be pharmaceutical companies greasing doctors to recommend their brands instead of (cheaper) generic drugs. Bribing someone famous is not quite the same as bribing someone in authority, or bribing the news anchor. Someone you don't just want to, but *have* to trust, or expect to be impartial, or at least upfront about it.


Didn't sound like he was offered a sponsor deal, although Bruce obviously isn't impartial here. Still, he was upfront about the Tradehill sponsoring on the show, nothing wrong with that. The confusion about him being the proprietor was started by someone possibly referring to Jered as 'very trusted member of the community', and someone else combined the OP with that. Bruce did set the record straight fairly quickly (it's hard to follow everything here as it is, I'm sure he's busy enough already).


That sounds quite benign (basically same deal as Tradehill for the referrals) but doesn't mention money, it should be interesting whether Bruce (and Jeff Garzik) got the same message.

I was not offered a referral bonus.

I was offered money, specifically, to say that bitcoin7 was better than mtgox. 

The text of the email has already been posted.

Ah, somehow missed that one (post#27 in this very thread).

I would guess Bruce got a similar offer then. Bad show bitcoin7.

do you know that anyone dealing with Liberty Reserve is failing AML guidelines even he claims otherwise?

Funny story? Bitcoin 7 cancelled some of my trades. This exchange is supposed to be an instant trade market like MtGox or Britcoin. So, one advantage is that you cannot reverse a trade. But that's exactly what they did. Somebody bought from me well above market, trade got through and got revorded (you can still see it in Bitcoinchart history for instance) they credited me with the money and took my BTC. I lock in today again - I got my BTC back but the money got refunded. WTF????
I'm writing them a mail - but for the time being I can only say - stay away from Bitcoin7!

I don't understand. You sold BTC and received money but they took the BTC? What about the counterparty? What did they receive?

Sorry, poorly explained. I started with 4 BTC and 0 money. I sold the 4 BTC for lets say 10money. New balance: 0 BTC, 40 money. Next day I check it and balance is suddenly again 4 BTC and 0 money.
No clue about the counterparty as it is an anonymous exchange (like MtGox). All I can say is that they reversed a reasonable trade without notifying me, which is a serious issue for me. How can I trust in dealing with them if they reverse deals from me? That's ridiculous. Never seen anything like this happen at a serious exchange (NYSE, Scoach, MtGox...). Makes me stop trusting those guys.

Is this transaction in your account history? Can you post that image?

It was in my account history, now it's gone. I only copied numbers for internal bookkeeping, didn't make a screenshot :( I screenshotted Bitcoincharts today, though, who recorded that trade. Will keep you updated on how it is being resolved.

actually i found them very pleasant to deal with

especially for euro-users

More sock puppets?

According to the charts b7 hasn't done more than 1 BTC every day since they went live. Or their API for this is broken too :)

They already had CSS history, CSRF, I wonder when they'll be SQL injected too.

12/22 euro each EUR withdraw to SEPA account.... to much for me I prefer 2% of MtGox also taking USD/EUR change risk..

for transfers bigger than 1100 euro, that 22 euro tax goes cheaper than 2% flat fee

Most all that has been covered. Glad it went well for you.

You know I would have no problem trusting them with 100 of your euro anytime!!!    :P

of course I ususly change 2/3 BTC: sell and move to my bank account.

I don't want to take the risk to leave money on any BTC market. IMHO ;)

So I noticed it said Dwolla / LR withdrawals are halted - any word on the issue or when they will resume?

Unknown. It's in Dwolla's hands.

i can't recommend wiring via sepa from sofia
12 euros fee on my 19 euro withdraw..

I finally found why those transfers were 15 days delayed, it's because of your spam withdrawals...

This is my only setback so far, it might be Tradehill for me even though I was hoping to use Bitcoin7. I'm sticking with Dwolla so that's the main problem.

Bitcoin 7 has the lowest priced BTC right now compared to Mt. Gox and Tradehill, you would think people would be trying to snatch up lower prices.

Did anyone try to transfer BTC into bitcoin7 ? I have sent a bitcoin as a test, but it was not added to my account although the explorer shows it as "recieved".

Its very strange that every time you hit "add BTC" on b7 they generate a new hash adress. Its unclear what happens with the old ones...

That's common practice on most exchanges Train. Makes accounting easier for them (they say *g*). Adding BTC worked for me, by the way.

my btc also came in smoothly...

ok, in the web front end they asked the amount, so I have put 1BTC, though while sending I have paid 0.01 donation fees. Maybe that mismatch hinders the adding to my acount

How long did it take to add BTC???

My Dwolla withdrawal EVER going to process?   If not, is there a way to cancel?

Wait, I thought there was no Dwolla access on BT7 right now?

Dear Bitcion7,

As many people have already noticed, your firm has admittedly plagiarized the text (and more) from Tradehill's website.

We pointed this out in the above posts and asked you to change the text several times. You have been apologetic and explanatory but have not remedied the situation. It has been two weeks since we've made multiple requests and less then 1% of the text has been changed. We understand it takes time to change a site but you have not taken any steps yet. Additionally, you've made plenty of time for marketing your company via lengthy forum posts and updates.   

It is also very coincidental that your site came on-line 4 days after ours, with the exact same text, same features (like instant buy/sell), and offering referral codes.  We have spent time and resources on developing our own website and ideas – please respect our intellectual property and remove the text immediately.

The text on Tradehill's website under “Introduction”, “Add Funds”, “Withdraw Funds”, “Support”, “Deposit Funds” and more, has been directly plagiarized by Bitcoin7 under – coincidentally – the exact same titles of “Introduction”, “Add Funds”, “Withdraw Funds”, “Support”, “Deposit Funds”.

See below - just some - of the exact plagiarisms which currently remain (at least up until the dating of this post).

TRADEHILL:

Under “Legal” and “Terms of Use”

Proprietary Rights
All contents of the TradeHill website, including, but not limited to, text, names, data, logos, buttons, icons, code, methods, techniques, models, graphics and the underlying software (the “Components”), are proprietary of TradeHill and are protected by the patent, copyright, trademark and trade laws of Chile and/or other countries. Nothing contained in this website shall be used in any form unless expressly stated by TradeHill.

https://www.tradehill.com/Support/Legal

BITCOIN7:

Proprietary Rights
All contents of the Bitcoin7 website, including, but not limited to, text, names, data, logos, buttons, icons, code, methods, techniques, models, graphics and the underlying software (the "Components"), are proprietary of Bitcoin7 and are protected by the patent, copyright, trademark and trade laws of Bulgaria and/or other countries. Nothing contained in this website shall be used in any form unless expressly stated by Bitcoin7.




TRADEHILL:

Under “Legal” and “Terms of Use”

Changes to Website
TradeHill will always attempt to keep its users informed of any changes to the website. However, TradeHill may terminate, change, suspend or discontinue any aspect of this website, including the availability of features of the site, at any time. TradeHill may also impose limits on certain features and services or restrict your access to part or the entire website without prior notice or liability.

https://www.tradehill.com/Support/Legal

BITCOIN7:

Under “Legal” and “Terms of Use”


Changes to Website
Bitcoin7 will always attempt to keep its users informed of any changes to the website. However, Bitcoin7 may terminate, change, suspend or discontinue any aspect of this website, including the availability of features of the site, at any time. Bitcoin7 may also impose limits on certain features and services or restrict your access to part or the entire website without prior notice or liability.

Here I was all ready to kick the tires and they don't accept dwolla any more.

Suspicious to me!

EDIT

Oops! After reading the above post b7 is toast to me.

BitCoin7 has worked great for me . . . aside from the recent Dwolla issues. And I continue to use MtGox and TradeHill. All three serve a purpose.

That said, a word to the TradeHill guys - lose the sanctimonious act. I wouldn't mind . . . but for the fact that your site design is a direct rip off of the MtGox site. And you guys have the gall to lecture BitCoin7? Please.

LOL - you also take money from TradeHill to say good things about them...what's the difference?

Can you post the link to the german site? Thank you!!!

I have had nothing but a excellent experience from bitcoin7 I have been using them exclusively for about 3 weeks now. I was mostly using Tradehill but tradehill made me wait 6 days for a  Liberty Reserve withdrawal and that is just plain too long. Bitcoin7 completes most of my BTC -> Liberty Reserve trades in less than 3 hours and the longest they have taken was 12 hours and that was only on one transaction. I talked to a bitcoin7 staff member and they said that they guarantee Liberty Reserve  withdrawals within 12 hours. I don't know how fast bitcoin7 is with other withdrawal options, but for Liberty Reserve they are the fastest in the business.

I think bitcoin7 should add a support ticket system to their site.

I'm currently having a problem. :(

Bitcoin7 still around?  Been like 3 weeks since we've heard from anyone at Bitcoin7, and currently their DOM shows only 5 bids (no asks) with the highest price being $4.0 USD.

yeah, their API is broken. if you log in you see the real quotes. Not a good sign, though.

Why do you use Bitcoin 7 just curious. 

sent an e-mail to support, damn troll

Can someone link the bitcoin7 user profile?

They do/did: 50509,bitcoin7,info@bitcoin7.com

I had to give up on B7 because they were costing me too much money with their bad trade engine.

If there are a series of bids or offers, you need to do them one at a time or it will do all of them at the price you enter, not the best price.
and
I was trading USD and EUR and it would randomly execute my EUR trades as USD causing the trade price to be significantly different from the actual USD price.  e.g. Selling at 4EUR is different to selling at 4USD!!

Their "support" claimed it was something I was doing, despite my showing them the trading logs.

Just to put a bookcase end to this post, Bitcoin7 says they've been hacked, most of the customer's funds are gone and they've closed.

http://bitcoin7.com

bbit, you don't the slightest idea what you're talking about. They're located in Bulgaria, where the viral blockchain dance started:

http://www.picturesofbulgaria.com/photos/1122804359minus_00.jpg

Damn it! Why didn't more people on this forum ask more questions? Why were they given a free ride? I just don't understand. No clues what-so-ever that this may be a bad site. NONE!

I am Bulgarian and already warned you guys this would happen...

So, the guy's first name is Chris that runs Bitcoin7. Is Chris sometimes short for Christian? I'm just asking. Did the owner of B7 also run/own a poker site? And one more thing: Isn't B7 a spot on a Bingo card? (last question is not relative)

I was good at predicting things hey ?  ;D

Yep! Now join the choirs line.

Well, going through this thread (and others) there are several people (e.g. TradeHill, Beastmanguy, bbit, myself (mainly on a different thread, though)) who warned of Bitcoin7.com. I guess the main reason why most people didn't write about it any more was because they stopped using Bitcoin7.com.
also have a look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17004.100 and here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37057.0

If you search through the forum you will find the parent cmopany, though. As far as I can remember it was a bigger software company, mainly producing games (?). So you can write them directly, if you lost money. What I found on a quick search was "AbuDhabi 2010" LTD, 130 Simeonovsko Shosse, Sofia, Bulgaria and "the US operations performed by "Risk Asset Management" LLC, a company registered in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA". But I know that there was more posted in the early posts when bitcoin7.com just started, including a message from the owner of the company.
Good luck with getting your money back!

Just to be clear, sonba, my post was tongue-in-cheek. There were many red flags posted.

Uh, sorry, my bad. Looks like the irony got lost on me. For my defense: I've seen posts like that which were not ironical - so I assumed it wasn't either.
Should have more thoroughly checked who wrote it - this way I would have seen the irony *g*
Sorry!

Thanks for those links - I didn't find them earlier when I was having problems.  I also noticed they ditched three currencies without warning or explanation, and I was getting poor answers from their help desk for things that were clearly their problem and costing users money.  So I exited a couple of weeks ago.

The site had some nice features, but was missing others, and in the end I found I couldn't trust it.  (A bit like the way I still don't trust Gox because they do odd things with money transfer and I suspect they do not have the funds to cover all deposits.)

It seems most of the community realized B7 wasn't safe. It's too bad something couldn't have been done beforehand. I wonder who is next.

Well we have

Crypto X Changer https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43908.0

Intersango https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28375.0

Trade-Btc https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46017.0

To my knowledge nobody has ever fallen victim to such an attack and I'm the one that would know.

The entire purpose of OpenID is to put the choice of who to trust into the hands of the user.

However acknowledging that many users don't know who to trust we have moved to an email/password system in which we are the sole trusted party.

So two out of three, though Intersango is claiming different.   

I do wonder when that Crypto X is going to open, at the least they can look on all these other errors in the scams and make the one ultimate scam.

Give us the link then instead of making outrageous claims.

I would accept a sound theory if no link is available, but I was going to reply with something similar.

I agree that posting a link to a particular historical issue/problem does not fix, resolve or solve the issue/problem.

However, glancing at that thread which is started July 12th I recall that http://intersango.com/ at that time was running Intersango v1 (https://gitorious.org/intersango/intersango) (written from scratch by genjix) that implemented OpenID login mechanism.

Glancing at http://intersango.com/ now I no longer see OpenID login mechanism and the site is now using Intersango v2 (rewritten from scratch by phantomcircuit).

I presume the particular 'hack' or 'exploit' which is regarded as the 'problem' reliant on OpenID is no longer functional considering the lack of OpenID implementation.

Therefore, reliance on a particular reference or link to forum thread as a resoluton of said problem seems a bit strange to suggest considering the problem seemingly no longer exists.

Just my two cents.

btw, I just modified a few words in my post.  You're welcome to review them.


Yeah.  I most always revise my posts after publishing them, rarely ever using preview function.  Clearly this should be obvious, otherwise, how would I be able to quote you before you even posted?  Oh, right, I'm psychic!

Uh, wait - so Matthew is actually a Neutrino or what???? Gahhhhh

hihi, CERN posted that it looks like they made neutrinos travel faster than lightspeed (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484), i.e. they arrive before they started. So, if this is true you can answer a question, before it was asked - or - as in your case - quote something before it was even written *g*

The neutrinos arrive not before they started, just earlier than expected.

"Hi, I just found this site(that I run) and I was wondering if anyone could tell me about it(the one I created).

Also, stop the hate(directed at me for being shitty at this)!"



Seriously, this has to be a joke.  Even in a community notorious for laughably transparent scams, this one ranks pretty high.

You complain about people not taking your venture seriously, but then post a link to your own website without declaring your interest?  Way to establish credibility.

And for what it's worth, checking out the business related records of new companies isn't "snooping" - it's the kind of due diligence which everyone should be doing before deciding to place their funds or do other business with new ventures.

Check out this thread Matthew. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47438.msg564646#msg564646

Well if you are going to start a Bitcoin based business you must be under 30, ideally under 20 and use Wordpress for your website.

It's outlined here: http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=395

New Zealand or Colombia??  The .CO domain is the later, although .co.nz gets NZ.  Australia have a weird .com.au mix.

The exchange now appears to be for sale:

Here's a snapshot of how it looked before:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110816000324/https://bitcoin7.com/

Here's it advertised for sale on flippa.com
https://flippa.com/2999232-bitcoin-exchange-ready-to-launch-immediately-multi-currency-14-languages

Considering the very shady history of this exchange, anyone wanting to buy it should really do a code review.

As you know, much of the text on the exchange was blatantly ripped (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17004.msg305403#msg305403) directly off Tradehill at the time

They claim that the 5K BTC stolen was not because of site being compromized, but an insider job.

So to me this looks very shady, both the unethical action about copying text directly off the Tradehill website, and the theft of these bitcoins.

Not saying this is a basket of rotten eggs, but some code review would be wise..

Edit: Perhaps move this to service discussion forum as well.

I was thinking about this - what about a crowd-funded effort to purchase this and all the code - and open-source it? 

was this a hijacked site?

Could you elaborate on that?

It was running well and then they started scamming?? I know something happened.

There's been far too many scammers in the bitcoin world, unfortunately. To me it seemed that they went rogue. They also copied text from TradeHill's site verbatim when starting, not very serious if you ask me.

So they pulled a Mtgox??

My personal suspicion is that they went "anonymous" and are now powering one of the larger Bitcoin exchanges out there... The interface at least still looks similar to bitcoin7.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Bitcoin7 has been for non-exclusive sale, at least on Flippa from what I've seen, so a similar interface on an exchange might not be evidence of what you suggest, but of course, it's a possibility. But I don't understand why selling the software if you still wanted to run an exchange.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/25irtz4.jpg
The founder of Bitcoin7 is going to be a speaker at a presentation of bitcoin in Sofia(Bulgaria).....
How do you have moral to show yourself at bitcoin presentation after "loosing" all the coins of your customer.
This is the url https://coinwisdomsofia.com/ (you can check him at the speakers section)...

So the guy is now in Lockchain ICO together with the ex-president?
https://lockchain.co/