Bitcoin Forum

Hi everyone,

I've been a reader of that wonderfull forum for a while and I'm jumping in for the first time  ;) I've searched that topic deeply for days and days, found some interesting things about that (even here) but no clear answer so I'm starting a new thread to get as detailed informations as possible (many thanks in advance  ;)).

I actually have two questions:

• Q1: Banks are usually not huge fans of crypto related businesses but I suppose that the big startups around (Kraken, Bitfinex, Polo, etc.) all have bank accounts but my question is: which banks are 'Bitcoin friendly' (or at least Bitcoin tolerant) to start a business with? To specify my question, if I'd like to create a Bitcoin based startup, where should I look at (I'm in Europe)?
• Q2: Is there such a thing as a 'Bitcoin based' bank? To put it differently, is it possible to get rid of banks totally? The idea would be to have a blockchain based system capable of dealing with SEPA (direct bank debit) or things like that, just like Paypal but based on cryptos?

Many thanks in advance for any enlighted answer you may provide  :P

I've heard that Fidor Bank is a bitcoin friendly bank and as far as I know , they are in partnership with Kraken too. I'm not sure about the other countries in Europe but they got founded in Germany and they work in UK as well.
I don't think I understood the 2nd question because cryptocurrencies could be functional without the need of a third party service and IMO the banking system could never work with BTC.

always i ask my self can banks accept bitcoin if so that will be so easy to transfer money tho

it's already very easy to transfer bitcoin you don't need a bank for that, and you also have one already which can be called an online bank for bitcoin like coinbase, the functionality is very similar, but the issue here is your personal data and your privacy

Here is a good list for determining the friendliness of it grouped per country . I just don't know if its updated or not so do your homework and just double check it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264679.0

If you will search some articles on the internet, There are a bunch of stuffs like banks says bitcoin is a opportunity ,Banks creating bitcoin banks, stuffs like that but you can say that those are merely rumors as there is no official statement of it .

And I am skeptical about bitcoin banks since I don't really understand why bitcoin needs it .

This. I use Fidor UK as a secondary account and so far have very positive experience. They don't charge you any montly fees (and even pay small interest on your balance). They will not freeze your account just because you're involved in trading bitcoins and I've seen staff members on community forum saying they're considering implementing Bitcoin sometime in the future (don't know the details and I wouldn't hold my breath for it).

As for the UK branch, I don't think they offer business accounts at the moment, so you won't be able to open an account for business which is a separate legal entity (Limited company, LLP etc), but it'll work fine if you're a sole trader.


There's no such thing afaik. Although you could use bitcoin debit card to pay your suppliers (if they don't accept btc) and possibly to pay tax (if your tax office accepts card payments). But likely, you'd need a bank account.

Many thanks Pawel and MadGamer, I've heard about Fidor as well and contacted them about that particular topic but they don't offer any kind of business account yet indeed. As for your link Wandering Soul thanks, I knew about it as well but the list seems quite deprecated unfortunately (although the idea was clearly great).

I've heard Belgium or Switzerland are quite BTC friendly but no idea where to look at to find a proper bank... in the end I may end up cold calling banks to ask them bluntly but if anyone around can save my the hassle it would deeply appreciated ;-)

As for the need of a third party it's mostly because I'd like to get rid of banks permanently and some 'suppliers' simply won't accept a credit card (national taxes, electricity bills, etc.) => They all ask for a direct bank debit and any BTC service that could be around to do just that without having a centralised system involved would be a blessing ;-)

If you're making a business based around Bitcoin, but not trying to deposit it into any banks, they probably won't care. Just go and ask about it, and if they have any issues then move on from that bank. As long as you can meet their basic requirements and pay back any loans you get they probably won't care ho you do it. Just make sure to pay your taxes.

For #2, I believe that Xapo has a system that operates with a direct debit card, and uses the Visa network.

well, i dont know about europe, but in south america still impossible to "get rid of banks totally".
most of my expenses i can pay directly with bitcoin if i want but a few things will always need FIAT(taxes for example)... and to pay these things i need my bank account...

In any country you would be you need to pay in fiat. Bitcoin payments are not agreed by the governments and will never be, unless Bitcoin turns into the global currency (I don't think it will happen though). Anonymous = dangerous, in the politicians' minds. It's exactly the opposite, but whatever..

I believe Bitcoin was designed to get rid of banks or reduce their influence, I don't know why some people are now looking in the bank direction. For me I don't need any bank to control my BTC. Some countries are BTC friendly especially Afircan countries

You can surely remove banks out of the game and play it with blockchain alone, as there are many startups and even banks probably who are coming ahead, joining hands in using the blockchain technology to lower the burden and get everything done automatically and systematically.
But you should know one thing that banks are not a fan of bitcoins like you, so they won't let you work with it, so better choose one.

To be quick : pretty all the banks are not friendly toward Bitcoin and no there's not any "Bitcoin-based" bank for many reasons. This is one of the most discussed subjects here I think, that ideao of Bitcoin banks. I don't see any purpose for that since Bitcoin is in itself a payment processor so that you can pay money to individuals over the Internet without requiring to the services of other people ?

Good to know such listed banks bitcoin friendly, that lists mostly come from bitcoin friendly country.

I have same skeptical, bitcoin is created as everyone have their own bank. Actually bitcoin don't need such bank, SN made bitcoin for leave a traditional exchange to p2p trade without 3rd party.
Bitcoin bank just an easy way for a centralized exchange to build their business.

Actually what I meant by "bitcoin bank" is more like a system that will allow us to:

• 1/ Store value using BTC (and therefore not storing any fiat currency)
• 2/ Accepting direct debit (to pay things like taxes) (in Euro that would be via SEPA) => Any supplier (like the gov) how would ask via a SEPA order for let's say 100€ would be converted directly into BTC and debited from your wallet to actually perform that debit on your account (conversion done by any exchange API like Bitstamp or Kraken for example).
• 3/ Opposingly Receiving bank wires (like the SEPA network in the Euro zone or SWIFT elsewhere) => This might be achieved by converting any incoming fiat wire to BTC (using any exchange API for example)
• 4/ Paying with a debit card like we can already do with services like Xapo, etc.

Any other banking services are still quite confidential but already exists in the real world (loans in bitcoin, insurances, etc.)... Ideally they should all be decentralized but that's an other story ;-)

A shame no one has tweaked the SEPA (or SWIFT) system in order to be able to say 'go to hell' to the banking system :p

Why do we need a bank,if a company set up a bitcoin bank,users will be subjected to a lot of verification,which is not the in accordance to the theory of Bitcoin,by running a bitcoin wallet in our computer we or our computer become a bank itself  I do not agree that we should have a crypto bank..

Theoretically I can't agree more BUT we cannot move from a 100% fiat currency controlled world to a 100% BTC based system in a day... IMHO we are at best in a transition time and many compromises need to be done if we want to be able to do 'normal' things connected with the centralised system... like paying our taxes or insurances, etc. That's why we might require some sort of 'BTC based banking system'... But that doesn't exists apparently so banks still have good days ahead  :-\

I am almost sure that this time you will not find this kind of bank in Europe as far as I am able to know. Most of the European countries like the distributed ledger technology but they want it private and centralized. In addition they want their digital coin and neither bitcoin or any other crypto coin. Maybe the most friendly is Estonia because is the most internet friendly in European continent. Take a look here http://www.cuber.ee/en_US/news/ and here (reveals the way governments and banks thinking) https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/492972/gs-16-1-distributed-ledger-technology.pdf

how about coinbase?

it can be seen as a bitcoin bank. and although i dislike the idea generally but coinbase or other services similar to that offer all the features that makes them a bank.

for example you make deposits there, they hold all the funds and you only have an account as you have with a bank. and they offer ways to deposit money and turn it into bitcoin and vice versa.

the only thing missing is issuing debit cards, and giving annual profit.

As far as I know, there is no such thing called bitcoin-friendly bank as well as bitcoin-based bank. Because bitcoin is designed to create freedom in money for people by eliminating third parties with the help of blockchain technology and it's doing just fine, why would we need someone to go against that? Besides, banks don't prefer the idea of bitcoin as it can make fiat money to lose balance, so it's no point in getting a bitcoin bank.

Theres no really point on talking into these stuff because it wont really happen and there would be no bank or crpyto banks because they wouldnt like to engage to bitcoin since its uncontrollable and the value does inflates and deflates which means banks cant guarantee to make money and people would rather use their own bitcoin wallets than putting into banks.

I don't have one that will have control on what to do with our funds,paypal is horrible for no reason at all they restrict your account,if a bitcoin is set up,they will have a control of our bitcoin and you need a lot of verification to use their service.

Many thanks for the links, I'll have a closer look... For what it's worth I tried to call some Estonian bank a couple months ago and as I'm not Estonian it wasn't possible at the time... but maybe things have changed, I'll catch up, do my homework and see where it leads ;-)

Actually one answer may offer the response to many questions... which bank(s) are the big exchanges using? I mean, what is(are) the bank(s) behing Kraken, Bitfinex, Bitstamp, Poloniex, etc.? Any thoughts?

I don't think setting up a bank account in Estonia will be much different than in any other European country, but if you're keen to try, you don't necessarily have to be Estonian. They do have an ongoing programme called e-residency:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-residency_of_Estonia

https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/about/

ps Care to share what kind of bitcoin start-up you're hoping to create?

Most of them probably have business accounts with large banks in their own country, or they have some sort of internalized banking system. Considering they're big exchanges for the most part one would expect they have a decent understanding of banking security.

I wouldn't be surprised to see big Chinese bank names as some providers, probably Chase or JP Morgan for some American exchanges, etc.

Many banks are looking to create their own cybercoins. Even US fed is thinking about "FedCoin" which will eventually remove the cash usage, and better tracking money flows. So some crypto banks will come soon.

Crytpo and bank should not be in the same sentnce.

Again I can't agree more... but in times of transition such as now we have to make some compromise... I do agree with you but we do need to be in the system to create a business this is MANDATORY by law in most european country so that's why I'm looking around for the best possible solution ;)

@pawel7777 Many thanks for the link, I'll have a closer look to that e-nationality that might be the answer indeed ;-)

As for the kind of business we are doing it's quite simple actually but I prefer to talk about that via MP so I'll message you about that :p

every human being now a days is forced directly or indirectly to make a bank account no katter which bank they choose but all the banks are interconnected. and secondly  no , nobody can make banks go away atleast not that easily they are ruling from a lot of years so they need much more effor

At the moment there is no bitcoin or another cryptocurrency based bank. Many people don't support this idea because they think existing of bitcoins bank would ruin it but in general I don't think this is such a bad idea because more financial bitcoin related services would be available to the users.

No banking goes against how bitcoin works so this idea can never be achieved.

Exactly ! They complete opposites.

There are thousands of banks in the whole world and possibly one of them are accepting bitcoins though I am not really sure about it.

In my country there are no banks accepting bitcoin so instead we use escrow services to bridge the bank and bitçoin.

They are right in saying that crypto and bank should not go together since their transactions and coverage are not the same.

A lot of people in the Bitcoin space are looking for banks which are Bitcoin friendly.
A dated list and discussion on the same can be found here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264679.0

This is an excellent innovation. we can make a bank guarantee bitcoin crypto that we have. some future time this will become a reality.

Well, this is a knowledge that I have to know exactly. Your questions is can be expand to "which banks are friendly with bitcoin user in europe?"
That's will be a great innovation for world banking.

Hi Xester, when you say you are using escrow you refer to services like localbitcoin?

What's the point of Bitcoin Banking?  Saving? Interests? Loans? Remittances? Cards? ATMs? I think all of that is now possible with Bitcoin, we just have to wait and spread the word for more bitcoin adoption..

You are correct. The functions and services of a bank can now be found in online sites offering almost the same what a traditional bank does. Of course, there will always be limitations and variations but the idea is the same. I think no Bitcoin-dealing site will use the word "bank" because it is associated with the usual regulated and centralized system cryptocurrency is avoiding in the first place.

Ultimately there is no point indeed... but right now only one thing is missing in the BTC ecosystem and it's the direct debit to pay official stuff like insurances, national taxes, etc.

I think it's matter of time, more sooner than later.. Actually that's ideas for business  ;D

+1 ;-)

Actually we are talking with some third party providers (banking api) and a small team of devs to digg deeper on that idea... Personally I'm doing it for me first as I'd like to get rid of banks for good but cannot right now because of mandatory insurances (car, house and mortgage) / national taxes /  electricity bills / cellphone / etc. and of course the bank fees themselves...

I'm open to any suggestions / leads / ideas of course ;)

Those questions are asked many times here and i can`t seem to find any good answers too.

I don`t know anything about "bitcoin friendly" banks.

Bitcoin is an anti-bank currency.

I'm against on any Bitcoin bank,in the first place Bitoin is for decentralization and bitcoin is not for that,they are both a contradictions but I'm interesting how will this be possible for our future use.

The way is see a "crypto bank" is actually like an exchange... a centralised hub to do things in relation with the centralised system (direct debit, debit card, etc.) based on the most beautiful decentralised system / currency ;-)

Bitcoin was created to get rid of Banking system, in bitcoin the users are the bank and the wallet are bank accounts, Bitcoins give freedom from heavy transaction charges, fast service and high security.

I think crypto bank must been used in near future but They need more time to build crypto rules to set up the crypto bank.
The youth generation is a big motivation to force them to change their mind for crypto bank soon.

banks are not all bad, i am not pro banking system but when you think about it there are lots of usages that we are getting from using banks. the most famous one these days (at least in my country) is the loans.

also the fact that you keep your money in a place that is safe and gives you profit on what you keep there.

all i am saying is that in the future, a bank that offers these and some more services with bitcoin can be useful.

And yet people are still asking about the crypto bank or whatever which is really against the purpose of why bitcoin was created. The bank itself is centralised and against decentralised thing which bitcoin having
Actually, if the crypto bank is really going to exist then the things might work just like an exchanger where you're always trading. Your funds have the chance to be stolen

Hmm, that's a big problem if indeed what you say is true. Because we use the bitcoin not only want to earn profits, but also want to get a better security and be in control. But if indeed crypto bank had worse things than a Bank which already happens now then it will not I use and I would prefer to use the bitcoin Wallet. But I think it also depends on the theft they do a security.Hopefully it's not something that happens in the future. Because I wanted the best thing in the bitcoin
 
 

That's true bitcoin has evolved as an alternate solution for banking, so such a bank with cryptographic currencies is not necessary. As mentioned even the heavy transactions that is not possible with banking can be made by bitcoin. This itself a strong proof that bank with crytocurrencies is not necessary right now. In future things might change according to the growth experienced.

B
Coinbase is a scam

if the crypto bank is like traditional bank then i think we don't need the crypto bank, but if the crypto bank can give us the other benefit than just ordinary bank, then maybe crypto currencies user will use this to save their coins in that bank. but for applying this, i think we need more preparation before its ready for the user.

How you can say that coinbase is scam.. honestly i am using coinbase as wallet but i still not experience any issue about that site..
Maybe for those who are using credit card to deposit i just heard before but i think the issue was solved..
I am still using coinbase for other transaction activity the sad part is you can not use it for gambling..

I don't think if there will be a crypto bank then it would be any different from ordinary fiat banks as a bank is always a bank, we cannot get anything else from them but just some % of interest annually which is not really appreciable at all, so we may get that from crypto bank too.

That's right i hope that Decentralized Exchanges fix that because right nowi'm a bit worried about this pump. If one of the biggest Exchanges gets "hacked"... Back to 500$ for sure

Prove your credentials and they will be being friendly to you. Simple.
Look at the tier list in kraken.

Try to focussing on " Be your own bank", If you're visiting the blockchain.

Source: Blockchain.info

Bitcoin debit cards already exist (load/unload in bitcoin and withdraw at ATM machine) , just follow my signature you will get 25% discount on your btc debit card)

The reason why there is still no crypto banks, is because people are still not ready for the crypto currencies yet, all the people are using fiat and trying to change the way they are used to pay with a new thing is something really hard, so maybe when crypto currencies start becoming something they we use every day crypto banks will become a thing.

Or probably crypto banks will exist when countries develop their own cryptocurrency

Maybe, but I don't see any sense in creating your own cryptocurrency if it's going to have no difference between that one and the paper money. There are more disadvantages than advantages by the way. Even if it's going to be easier to use, keep in mind that we will have absolutely everything controlled. So you will have to probably pay taxes even for a buck that you received as a gift from your parents. I don't see any pros when it comes to a cryptocurrency created by governments. If that is the case, I would totally prefer paper.

Define "crypto bank". Technically exchanges like Coinbase could be considered "crypto banks", no?

Maybe, but the thing is they do not give interest on our deposits like the banks does and they have no insurance on our deposits. I don't their can be a bank like system implementation in real life because in the first place, bitcoin is decentralized.

It's two different system that cannot run or merge as one. We can call any exchanges as bank as we need them to trade our bitcoins into fiat.

There is no reason banks can't use bitcoin though, and if they use an off-chain ledger like most every crypto business does then there is no transparency anyway. All the more reason people shouldn't trust anything that doesn't give them control of their secret keys.

Right about the credential.. but believe I've tried many banks, sending them as much credential as you like as soon as you say the word "BITCOIN" they shut the door on you ;-)

For me a crypto bank would be something like an exchange but much easier for the general public and it would have to be compatible with the banking services like SWIFT, SEPA, etc. (both for deposit and payment, like the direct debit to pay your taxes / bills ;)).

A mix with banks and exchanges
It will be great
Like you can send and receive crypto and get it converted in the bank system with the fiat equivalent

One day I don't think fiat will exist. If BTC is still volatile two decades from now and BTC is used around the globe as the primary currency, maybe we'll use fiat to set prices for things as we do now. Then when we go to purchase items or sell items, we determine how many BTC to buy/sell for depending on the fiat price that was set for the item. But that's all fiat will be, a way to set prices. Other than that, it will be dead. That of course is an extreme of what could happen, what I want to happen.

Thats not right to shut the door for us, because the opportunity for us is there already all we have to do is to explain to those banks the assurance that bitcoin has, for me converting bitcoin to fiat currency is the right option to do before saving your crypto currency to bank. In my country only one bank do have an optional crypto converted withdrawal transaction through cash out and hopefully in the future years they will fully adopt bitcoin as cryto bank option of deposits to make more convenience for us users who spend this kind of currency.

I think you are right, it is totally possible.
It remember a little when they started to introduce us the €, supermarkets were displaying 2 prices; 1 in the old currency and 1 in euo
I can easy imagine tht with Bitcoin
 ;D