Crypto bank

[Fabricus]

Hi everyone,

I've been a reader of that wonderfull forum for a while and I'm jumping in for the first time  I've searched that topic deeply for days and days, found some interesting things about that (even here) but no clear answer so I'm starting a new thread to get as detailed informations as possible (many thanks in advance  ).

I actually have two questions:

• Q1: Banks are usually not huge fans of crypto related businesses but I suppose that the big startups around (Kraken, Bitfinex, Polo, etc.) all have bank accounts but my question is: which banks are 'Bitcoin friendly' (or at least Bitcoin tolerant) to start a business with? To specify my question, if I'd like to create a Bitcoin based startup, where should I look at (I'm in Europe)?
• Q2: Is there such a thing as a 'Bitcoin based' bank? To put it differently, is it possible to get rid of banks totally? The idea would be to have a blockchain based system capable of dealing with SEPA (direct bank debit) or things like that, just like Paypal but based on cryptos?

Many thanks in advance for any enlighted answer you may provide 

[MadGamer]

I've heard that Fidor Bank is a bitcoin friendly bank and as far as I know , they are in partnership with Kraken too. I'm not sure about the other countries in Europe but they got founded in Germany and they work in UK as well.
I don't think I understood the 2nd question because cryptocurrencies could be functional without the need of a third party service and IMO the banking system could never work with BTC.

[mr.bitcoinerf11]

always i ask my self can banks accept bitcoin if so that will be so easy to transfer money tho

[Ayers]

always i ask my self can banks accept bitcoin if so that will be so easy to transfer money tho

it's already very easy to transfer bitcoin you don't need a bank for that, and you also have one already which can be called an online bank for bitcoin like coinbase, the functionality is very similar, but the issue here is your personal data and your privacy

[Wandering Soul~]

Here is a good list for determining the friendliness of it grouped per country . I just don't know if its updated or not so do your homework and just double check it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264679.0

If you will search some articles on the internet, There are a bunch of stuffs like banks says bitcoin is a opportunity ,Banks creating bitcoin banks, stuffs like that but you can say that those are merely rumors as there is no official statement of it .

And I am skeptical about bitcoin banks since I don't really understand why bitcoin needs it .

[pawel7777]

I've heard that Fidor Bank is a bitcoin friendly bank and as far as I know , they are in partnership with Kraken too. I'm not sure about the other countries in Europe but they got founded in Germany and they work in UK as well.
...

This. I use Fidor UK as a secondary account and so far have very positive experience. They don't charge you any montly fees (and even pay small interest on your balance). They will not freeze your account just because you're involved in trading bitcoins and I've seen staff members on community forum saying they're considering implementing Bitcoin sometime in the future (don't know the details and I wouldn't hold my breath for it).

As for the UK branch, I don't think they offer business accounts at the moment, so you won't be able to open an account for business which is a separate legal entity (Limited company, LLP etc), but it'll work fine if you're a sole trader.

Q2: Is there such a thing as a 'Bitcoin based' bank? To put it differently, is it possible to get rid of banks totally? The idea would be to have a blockchain based system capable of dealing with SEPA (direct bank debit) or things like that, just like Paypal but based on cryptos?

There's no such thing afaik. Although you could use bitcoin debit card to pay your suppliers (if they don't accept btc) and possibly to pay tax (if your tax office accepts card payments). But likely, you'd need a bank account.

[Fabricus]

Many thanks Pawel and MadGamer, I've heard about Fidor as well and contacted them about that particular topic but they don't offer any kind of business account yet indeed. As for your link Wandering Soul thanks, I knew about it as well but the list seems quite deprecated unfortunately (although the idea was clearly great).

I've heard Belgium or Switzerland are quite BTC friendly but no idea where to look at to find a proper bank... in the end I may end up cold calling banks to ask them bluntly but if anyone around can save my the hassle it would deeply appreciated ;-)

As for the need of a third party it's mostly because I'd like to get rid of banks permanently and some 'suppliers' simply won't accept a credit card (national taxes, electricity bills, etc.) => They all ask for a direct bank debit and any BTC service that could be around to do just that without having a centralised system involved would be a blessing ;-)

[Yakamoto]

Hi everyone,

I've been a reader of that wonderfull forum for a while and I'm jumping in for the first time  I've searched that topic deeply for days and days, found some interesting things about that (even here) but no clear answer so I'm starting a new thread to get as detailed informations as possible (many thanks in advance  ).

I actually have two questions:

• Q1: Banks are usually not huge fans of crypto related businesses but I suppose that the big startups around (Kraken, Bitfinex, Polo, etc.) all have bank accounts but my question is: which banks are 'Bitcoin friendly' (or at least Bitcoin tolerant) to start a business with? To specify my question, if I'd like to create a Bitcoin based startup, where should I look at (I'm in Europe)?
• Q2: Is there such a thing as a 'Bitcoin based' bank? To put it differently, is it possible to get rid of banks totally? The idea would be to have a blockchain based system capable of dealing with SEPA (direct bank debit) or things like that, just like Paypal but based on cryptos?

Many thanks in advance for any enlighted answer you may provide 

If you're making a business based around Bitcoin, but not trying to deposit it into any banks, they probably won't care. Just go and ask about it, and if they have any issues then move on from that bank. As long as you can meet their basic requirements and pay back any loans you get they probably won't care ho you do it. Just make sure to pay your taxes.

For #2, I believe that Xapo has a system that operates with a direct debit card, and uses the Visa network.

[raphma]

well, i dont know about europe, but in south america still impossible to "get rid of banks totally".
most of my expenses i can pay directly with bitcoin if i want but a few things will always need FIAT(taxes for example)... and to pay these things i need my bank account...

[20kevin20]

well, i dont know about europe, but in south america still impossible to "get rid of banks totally".
most of my expenses i can pay directly with bitcoin if i want but a few things will always need FIAT(taxes for example)... and to pay these things i need my bank account...

In any country you would be you need to pay in fiat. Bitcoin payments are not agreed by the governments and will never be, unless Bitcoin turns into the global currency (I don't think it will happen though). Anonymous = dangerous, in the politicians' minds. It's exactly the opposite, but whatever..

[jacafbiz]

I believe Bitcoin was designed to get rid of banks or reduce their influence, I don't know why some people are now looking in the bank direction. For me I don't need any bank to control my BTC. Some countries are BTC friendly especially Afircan countries

[2double0]

You can surely remove banks out of the game and play it with blockchain alone, as there are many startups and even banks probably who are coming ahead, joining hands in using the blockchain technology to lower the burden and get everything done automatically and systematically.
But you should know one thing that banks are not a fan of bitcoins like you, so they won't let you work with it, so better choose one.

[Redrose]

To be quick : pretty all the banks are not friendly toward Bitcoin and no there's not any "Bitcoin-based" bank for many reasons. This is one of the most discussed subjects here I think, that ideao of Bitcoin banks. I don't see any purpose for that since Bitcoin is in itself a payment processor so that you can pay money to individuals over the Internet without requiring to the services of other people ?

[avatar_kiyoshi]

Here is a good list for determining the friendliness of it grouped per country . I just don't know if its updated or not so do your homework and just double check it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264679.0

If you will search some articles on the internet, There are a bunch of stuffs like banks says bitcoin is a opportunity ,Banks creating bitcoin banks, stuffs like that but you can say that those are merely rumors as there is no official statement of it .

And I am skeptical about bitcoin banks since I don't really understand why bitcoin needs it .

Good to know such listed banks bitcoin friendly, that lists mostly come from bitcoin friendly country.

I have same skeptical, bitcoin is created as everyone have their own bank. Actually bitcoin don't need such bank, SN made bitcoin for leave a traditional exchange to p2p trade without 3rd party.
Bitcoin bank just an easy way for a centralized exchange to build their business.

[Fabricus]

Actually what I meant by "bitcoin bank" is more like a system that will allow us to:

• 1/ Store value using BTC (and therefore not storing any fiat currency)
• 2/ Accepting direct debit (to pay things like taxes) (in Euro that would be via SEPA) => Any supplier (like the gov) how would ask via a SEPA order for let's say 100€ would be converted directly into BTC and debited from your wallet to actually perform that debit on your account (conversion done by any exchange API like Bitstamp or Kraken for example).
• 3/ Opposingly Receiving bank wires (like the SEPA network in the Euro zone or SWIFT elsewhere) => This might be achieved by converting any incoming fiat wire to BTC (using any exchange API for example)
• 4/ Paying with a debit card like we can already do with services like Xapo, etc.

Any other banking services are still quite confidential but already exists in the real world (loans in bitcoin, insurances, etc.)... Ideally they should all be decentralized but that's an other story ;-)

A shame no one has tweaked the SEPA (or SWIFT) system in order to be able to say 'go to hell' to the banking system :p

[coin-investor]

Why do we need a bank,if a company set up a bitcoin bank,users will be subjected to a lot of verification,which is not the in accordance to the theory of Bitcoin,by running a bitcoin wallet in our computer we or our computer become a bank itself  I do not agree that we should have a crypto bank..

[Fabricus]

Why do we need a bank,if a company set up a bitcoin bank,users will be subjected to a lot of verification,which is not the in accordance to the theory of Bitcoin,by running a bitcoin wallet in our computer we or our computer become a bank itself  I do not agree that we should have a crypto bank..

Theoretically I can't agree more BUT we cannot move from a 100% fiat currency controlled world to a 100% BTC based system in a day... IMHO we are at best in a transition time and many compromises need to be done if we want to be able to do 'normal' things connected with the centralised system... like paying our taxes or insurances, etc. That's why we might require some sort of 'BTC based banking system'... But that doesn't exists apparently so banks still have good days ahead 

[sportis]

I am almost sure that this time you will not find this kind of bank in Europe as far as I am able to know. Most of the European countries like the distributed ledger technology but they want it private and centralized. In addition they want their digital coin and neither bitcoin or any other crypto coin. Maybe the most friendly is Estonia because is the most internet friendly in European continent. Take a look here http://www.cuber.ee/en_US/news/ and here (reveals the way governments and banks thinking) https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/492972/gs-16-1-distributed-ledger-technology.pdf

[BitcoinHodler]

how about coinbase?

it can be seen as a bitcoin bank. and although i dislike the idea generally but coinbase or other services similar to that offer all the features that makes them a bank.

for example you make deposits there, they hold all the funds and you only have an account as you have with a bank. and they offer ways to deposit money and turn it into bitcoin and vice versa.

the only thing missing is issuing debit cards, and giving annual profit.

[Blitzboy]

As far as I know, there is no such thing called bitcoin-friendly bank as well as bitcoin-based bank. Because bitcoin is designed to create freedom in money for people by eliminating third parties with the help of blockchain technology and it's doing just fine, why would we need someone to go against that? Besides, banks don't prefer the idea of bitcoin as it can make fiat money to lose balance, so it's no point in getting a bitcoin bank.