Bitcoin Forum

http://glz.co.il/1087-15603-HE/Galatz.aspx


"Banks in Israel against bitcoin ': Jonah Liibzon, Israeli banks are struggling virtual currency holders. In some branches of banks began to restrict this coin changers, whose value soared in recent months, and is not subject to any government control. Bitcoin dealers "are no longer authorized to transfer or receive dollars from Japan, where most trading takes place in the industry."

From Israeli radio.  translated with google
 

Whoa, if true, this would be quite significant, and one of the more oppressive Bitcoin-related restrictions to date: a blanket ban on all monetary interactions with Japan!?  I'd guess either the report is missing some details or something was lost in the translation, perhaps one of our Israeli members can shed some light?

not surprised that would happen in Israel, central banksters 2nd home.

Welcome to the UK. This has been the case here for years.

Note that it doesn't prevent Israelis from wiring money to mt.gox from their personal accounts. It just means there won't be legit bitcoin exchanges based out of Israel.

Still a scum-bag move, however.

And so it begins.  8)

That's not what I understood from OP. It seems that banks are forbidding people to send money to MtGox.


+1 The most oppressive, no doubt. So far only business were being censored, never individuals.

So when they say 'Bitcoin dealers' what they really mean is anyone in Israel? Can OP please confirm who is restricted from doing what.

Yeah, this is not very clear, and I'm not even sure it's true.
I opened a topic in Hebrew section, perhaps someone in loco will have something to say.

I'm not sure that broadcast has all its facts right.

Things are in a bit of disarray and I only have first-hand knowledge of some of the events.

I think "banning transfers to Mtgox" is the exception rather than the rule (and that banning transfers to Japan in general is a fib). The rule is imposing limitations on local Bitcoin exchange services due to a concern about AML compliance.

The whole thing is currently being explored with several government agencies.

If anyone is interested - we translated the article here http://forexmagnates.com/israel-banks-limiting-bitcoin-buying-waiting-for-regulatory-decisions/

Also, for what its worth, one of my contacts was recently able to make a transfer to a non-Japanese exchange

Thank you.

My guess is that they will come out with some variant on the FinCEN guidance.  Copying US precedent sems like the easiest route for bureaucrats to cover their rears.

Huh? AFAIK UK residents are authorized to transfer or receive dollars from Japan.

Whats new with this? Germans that want to trade bitcoins at bitcoin.de (sending money directly to other customers and receiving directly to bank account) know already that these activities will lead fast to a closed bank account. The only solution nowadays is to use a bank account with a polish bank that doesnt bother about bitcoins. In fact they will make quite some bucks because everyone goes to them.
But using your normal bank account for bitcoin business is a high risk and you have a good chance to lose your account. The reason is that the banks fear money laundering. They could ask back but they dont want to because it makes work. So they close, dont tell a reason, and dont have work with it. There are enough other customers that dont make trouble.
So in my opinion... israeli banks disallow it... but at least they dont close the account and cause you much trouble.

IIRC, there were 5+ bitcoin exchanges in Israel.

I think the number is closer to 10.
Here is an official press release (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bitcoil/263410583723304) I just wrote in Hebrew (Facebook). Could someone translate to English and post here?

Sorry, had to remove the post for the time being, but I will definitely update later.
Please be patient for a little bit more :)

This is one of the first major steps taken by a government against Bitcoin. It's too bad Israelis can't buy directly from Gox. However, they can for now at least buy Bitcoins at BIPS which is in Denmark. We also sell directly for ILS.

1. Who says the steps are taken by governments?
2. Who says Israelis can't buy directly on Gox? We've been buying on Gox for 2 years now ... it's just slow and complicated (at least 2-3 days to wire money, verifications, forms to fill out etc.).

link?

found it: https://bips.me/    but those prices are crazy it seems.

It appears I didn't take enough time to read it problem . The banks are taking action, not the government - yet.

How hard is it to withdraw fiat from MtGox?

I'm curious how the exchange works for you guys there. What about local exchange? does this affect them greatly?

I just made a wiki page (http://wiki.bitcoin.org.il/index.php/%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%98%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C) (Hebrew) that summarizes the banking issues in Israel that Bitcoil (the largest/oldest exchange) has ran into.

Updates:

1. My bank (Mizrahi Tfahot) has refused my request from more than a month ago to wire about $7,500 to Mt. Gox. They said they would "look into whether my request is ok or not" ... and haven't gotten back to me yet.
2. Another bank (Beinleumi) has formally refused one of their clients, and wrote in a formal letter (http://wiki.bitcoin.org.il/index.php/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%A7_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%9C%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99_%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91_%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91.jpg):

(Rough translation by me)


Signed by his branch (Ramat Aviv)

Wow.... they simply deny you the right to spend your money, shamelessly.

This is serious. It's the most aggressive bankster attack on Bitcoin so far. Previous attacks focused the exchanges, this is targeting individuals.

I suppose Israeli people may continue using solutions as localbitcoin to counter such attack. But I wonder how easy it would be for Israelis to use this solution to bring and send bitcoins internationally. If it's not simple, that might provoke price differences.

I guess they are scared shitless. Since it's a small market it's much easier for them to "contain" us from transferring money to Mtgox.  Who knows, someday they might say we can can't transfer money to buy precious metals.....

Indeed.

I haven't heard of any case in the world where individuals were formally forbidden from wiring money to Mt. Gox (please let me know if I missed anything!)

Localbitcoins is fine ... we also have a Facebook group for exchange, but it's a small market and lacks liquidity.
Some Israeli exchanges are still working somehow ... for the time being ... but they're all limited in some way and at a constant shutdown risk.

The exchanges I work with still function, namely Bitgo (https://www.bitgo.co.il/index.aspx) and Bits of Gold (https://www.bitsofgold.co.il). I know BoG exchanges via some Euro exchange, but I don't know about Bitgo.

I guess they have a foreign bank account.  Bitgo has a very low amount of bitcoins for sale - 5000$ worth ...
Bits of gold  uses a MTgoxEUR-EUR to ILS exchange rate so they must use a European bank?

You have the right to file a case against them. And surely win.

Wow, this is absurd  :o

This is exactly why we need bitcoin!

Just to be sure I understand, they have refused to wire a portion of your own legitimate savings to a third party of your choice? Period?

So:

1)   If you owed me $7,500 and wanted to repay me by wire, would that be ok?

2)   If I, living in another country, choose to convert my $7,500 into some clothing, a mountain bicycle, vintage wine and some BTC, that is presumably outside the jurisdiction of any Israeli business?

3)   If I later choose to donate some BTC from my bank to your electronic wallet, surely that is also outside the responsibility of a competing Israeli bank?

If my premises above are correct, I can only suggest you move your savings to a different bank.  


    

Yes, this is pretty much it, as absurd as that sounds.

Fortunately I personally have another bank account in Israel, which has allowed me to send money to Mt. Gox recently. But - in any case, I am actively working on getting myself an account with a foreign bank.

I have just filed a claim to the "supervisor on banks" (המפקח על הבנקים) (http://www.boi.org.il/he/BankingSupervision/SupervisorsDirectives/Pages/Default.aspx) to understand what's the general regulatory situation. Will post updates as I get them.

Having a foreign bank account can help to sever the trail between Israel and Mt.Gox but money still needs to be transfered abroad because the exchange gets paid in ILS in Israel.

Thats easy. They get ILS into their account and convert to euro and send it to their own foreign bank account.
Of course the bank can start asking question about the ILS coming into the account- thats how the problems started
for bitcoil I think.

Excuse me Mr. Jones, we noticed that you were trying to spend your money and unfortunately we're not going to let you do that. Sorry.

i wonder about tor!.~.prolly pissing them off too ha

lets build a big ass fffing wall to keep the bitcoinerzzz out! ...wh00ps nevermind scrrr

Actually with Bitcoil the problems started with the increased demand on January ... the bank asked us to limit our dollar activity to $150,000 a month. It was ok for Jan, a little bad on Feb, but on March and April was totally unmanageable due to increased Bitcoin prices and demand.

Funny story:

We recently opened a non-trading account in one of the largest Israeli banks, Bank Leumi. We told them we're "developing products related to Bitcoins", which we were, but didn't intend to trade using that account.

A few weeks afterward, we changed our minds, and asked the bank whether we can trade Bitcoins via this account. Three days later the reply came "please close your account ASAP". Not "you can't trade bitcoins", but they repeatedly asked us to close our bank account and cease any activity, even though we've never traded bitcoins via that account, and were content not to do so.

BTW, other Israeli companies are currently successfully trading via Bank Leumi. I don't know if it's because they have personal connections with the bank, or if it's just because the bank haven't noticed them yet, or because it's a different branch and every branch does whatever the fuck they want.

It's rather unfair and annoying as hell to us, but at this point we won't approach our competitors' specific branch and ask to open an account there "because if they can, why not us" ... we don't want to risk their account to be closed - we rather the Israeli public have a few places they can still trade at.

What does ILS stand for?

If they can blacklist Mt.Gox's account, they can blacklist an active exchange's account... Another one of those games could ensue (as has with torrent websites) where random bank accounts would pop up around the world until banks blacklist them and repeat.


Israeli Shekel.

In Ukraine for example.. they don't allow you to wire more than $2K a day... You need to obtain National bank license for it... Anyway, war thunder already can be heard... it's our move now...

Smells like trolling.

smells fishy.

Well, it certainly smells old. Why dig up an old thread just to post this?

You mean fishy like your Litecoin pumping in the Bitcoin Press area?

Well now that this thread has been necroed, we can update that it's been a war of attrition ever since. There are still limitations but we survive somehow.