Bitcoin Forum

Unfortunately mining isnt going to be profitable until the next re-target, thats right every second you spend mining bytecoin instead of bitcoin is time spent losing money. But you should do it anyway, and ill explain why.

We are in very dangerous territory right now. Bytecoin was a 1:1 copy of bitcoin which means it was released with a difficulty target of 1 just like bitcoin was. This made sense when bitcoin was released since there were very few miners using very primitive mining hardware. These days with asic this is no longer the case, so releasing bytecoin with a dificulty target of 1 was a huge mistake (hindsight is always 20/20). This incentivized massive amounts of mining power to enter into the market in an attempt to capitalize on blocks that were coming in so fast they were limited only by the latency in the network (as it turns out this is about 1 minute). The problem is that the bytecoin network interpreted this as meaning that there was far more hashing power legitimately interested in bytecoin than there actually was. After the retarget those looking for quick profits left the network and caused the re-target to massively over compensate.

This presents a very serious risk of creating a destructive feedback loop. Miners abandon the bytecoin network because blocks are coming in to slowly and this causes blocks to come in more slowly which causes more miners to abandon which causes blocks to come in more slowly until we never see another block again.

So then the question is why should you mine at a loss? The answer is that if you are holding bytecoin and we do not make it to the next retarget than your bytecoin will be worthless. If you are holding bytecoin and we do make it to the next re-target than they will almost certainly have a very bright future and be outrageously undervalued at current prices. So it is in your interest, if you are holding bytecoin, atleast for the time being, to mine at a loss. If we make it to the next re-target than it will be smooth sailing from there on, we know this because bytecoin is just bitcoin2 and we know bitcoin works.

If we ever get to the point where a single block takes more than 24 hours we will know that bytecoin as we know it is dead but this is not necessarily the end of the story. If we do encounter this feedback loop of death we can potentially hard fork. In this fork we would need to manually set the difficulty to where it should have always been. I think this is possible because there are so few of us. In fact i think i know almost everyone involved in bytecoin and i could send each person a personal message so hard forking should be very possible.

With that being said it would still be best to avoid this entirely by sticking with our resolve to mine even at a loss, because the rewards will be great if we can only be patient.

thanks for taking a look! anon136 signing out.

Also make sure everyone you know who is involved in bytecoin reads this very important post

I was afraid of this, but I think it is a temporary setback.  During that temporary setback, there might be all kinds of price fluctuations as the market probably did not factor in the thought of this happening into the price.

People who are committed to altcoins need to provide a decent amount of hashing power to get their coins to succeed.  There is just no way around it.  Mining at its core is really about securing the network.

I believe that long term, a fork of Bitcoin's blockchain like this is needed.  I think Bytecoin may have to weather some interesting times until it gets enough hashing power to be that fork.

Keep hashing!

I am already mining worthless BTE on a single GPU (2011 of course  8) ). How long do we have to mine to get to a normal difficulty again?

I heard PPCoin has a way to do proof-of-stake so it's possible to avoid this difficulty issues. Can we evaluate going that route? 

Note I'm all for a hard fork, if needed can throw a couple GH/s at this.  Once I get my ASICs it'll be more than just a "couple" ;)

Cheers,
Mark

if we got 1 asic pointed at this thing consistently we would get past this next re-target no problem at all. you arnt by any chance in avalon batch 2?

i cant believe no one responded with "my life for aiur"

my 55 Mh/s working  8)

I'm contributing with my 260Mh/s. It's not much but it's better than nothing i guess

thanks! every little bit helps!

Also im going to add a 500 bte bounty to who ever can prepare an update for the client, just in-case we need to fork. Ill make a separate thread about it also.

I don't have much hashing power yet but I'll switch my stuff over to bytecoin later today.  Is there a recommended pool to use?

do you use guiminer?

I'm in!  I just joined pool.bytecoin.in and am throwing a couple of GH/s machines at it.

I'm using cgminer and minerd (got 2 i7s @ decent hash rates).

than i would just use lucas jones' pool. i think its the most used.

I used to mine at http://pool.bytecoin.in/payment.php, but the pool doesn't pay out anymore. Submitted 400 shares and didn't get any BTE.
Yesterday i mined at limitedloot, but today i can't seem to get in their list.. Already submitted 40 shares though.

Are there other pools around?

It appears his pool is down, possibly for good since the forum post mentioned it's closed.

i imagine since the re-target they wernt finding many blocks, its really starting to look like we are just going to have to fork.

The problem is that anyone with ASICs can point at Bytecoin for a few days and kill the difficulty.

For Bytecoin to succeed, it needs a killer-application that creates incentive for bitcoin miners to mine BTE continually.  A proper exchange would be a good start.

I've been trying to think of a way that Bytecoin could be beneficial to Bitcoin.  Maybe there's some cool process we can do with transactions across chains.  If you think about it, bitcoin miners are stuck with bitcoin.  They can't mine altchains that don't use the same algo.  Maybe Bytecoin can function in a way where miners see it as a way to protect their hardware investments in ASICs.

This is another reason why PPCoin is undervalued. 51% attacks can't be performed computationally. Even if someone has 95% of the hash power they couldn't mess up the PPCoin block chain.

And not only that PPCoin has a smart difficulty adjustment and retargeting which isn't resulting in the problems BTE and TRC experienced.

I have some BTE but I'm against any changes. It's like rewriting the Bible. I'd better see value of my coins drops to zero.

i disagree but respect this position. We could always make a new genesis block and this time set the difficulty properly.

any real money involved so far ? (trades made by BTE owners)
changing the genesis block could be a big loss for some of your users

right i agree so its not my preferred option. I was just pointing out that it is an option. It seems to be the option that come-from-beyond prefers.

I get about 330mh/s. What pool should I join? Or should I just solo mine.

750 Mhash/s pointed at bytcoin.in

Got 4ghash mining 24/7 @ bytecoin  8)

Mined multiple blocks yesterday right after each other:

14334 (http://blockexplorer.bytecoin.in/block/000000000001407c7feee5b80c27e39423d611527b369e7465d01419ca2c26ca)

and 14333 (http://blockexplorer.bytecoin.in/block/0000000000038e31b5d65dd3b480e9afd7a6051f7a6e08f70a53ce8d2eecb1a5)


And earlier that day

14319 (http://blockexplorer.bytecoin.in/block/0000000000036b00045fc4531eb5766899d672cd8716cc88635733c579a2c896) and 14320 (http://blockexplorer.bytecoin.in/block/0000000000027b585b1766c61251d24ee9a1513d87bc0b7fcff8546dec033de5)

so i am trying the best i can, last mined block from me is block numer 14344 (http://blockexplorer.bytecoin.in/block/0000000000017ddddcd113e4fbc77fc9465692e1a78203553ae4b51440216ed9)

And still hashing with 4ghash/s

I will continu to support this altcoin as an protest to mtgox and their power over bitcoin. We need bitcoin as an alternative to fiat. Not a conversion of fiat!

Just my .02 BTE  ;D

EDIT: seems like 270ghash on the network  :o no 51% attack? (bytecoinpool info (http://pool.bytecoin.in/stats_netw.php))

just curious, what is a retarget and how could you not reach a retarget?

Everyone come to http://pool.bytecoin.in/ (http://pool.bytecoin.in/)

We are only at 2GH/s right now.

Retarget is the difficulty change after mining 2016 blocks. It will target a difficulty that way that the average time of a block generated is ~10mins if i'm right.

When there is some fools with asics pointing 1thash at the network, mining the blocks in no-time the re-target after the 2016blocks will shoot up (like now 16k, while it is supposed to be ~4k when mining with 30ghash)

When they stop after the retarget the difficulty is around 30 times higher then normal. Thay way we can take a year to get a retarget again. So most people will quit mining it then (not me :P)


Right now its at a good difficulty for the 270ghash mining power bytecoin has. (retarget will double the difficulty) but it can be some asic guy or botnet just trying to crush bytecoin. But also can be frustrated bitcoin miners protesting against mtgox.


I quit bitcoin mining because mtgox is just "ruling" bitcoin. People see it as an commodity they can invest and trade in rather then a new currency :(.

BYTECOIN WILL RULE THIS WORLD  ;D ;D ;D

Uhn dara ma'nakai.

So this is BTE's TRC moment....Anon is right Sunny king has explicity said people should look at his retarget system in relation to how TRC was hurt in this manner.

The TRC dev has done something interesting in response, I am not sure how well it is working

I see the difficulty is projected to go up to 65k? I thought the difficulty was going to adjust down after some blocks got solved (which it seems like it did) -- or did that already happen? Just trying to follow up with whats going on now that some blocks were solved (and hopefully prevented a fork).

Why would I move back to a pool that has already ripped me off for well over 100 coins?

retarget is every 2016 blocks. If you see some stats somewhere that say its going to retarget up than those stats are probably just wrong.

thanks so much! tell me your address and ill send you a donation!

Yeah I found it here: http://pool.bytecoin.in/stats_netw.php

Is that stat incorrect?

why people love this coin so much?

next diff : 65536
even after btc retarget @ 9M, cost of bining 1 BTE would be 0,00721 BTC :o

why is next diff 65536? should it go down?

+1 the noobs here will find out soon enough once someone with enough money and time on their hands wants to have a little fun with BTC miners and holders of this coin.

Good luck to you suckers!  ;D ;D ;D

Got a feeling after the next retarget the super miner solving all the blocks is going to jump ship. Leaving everyone holding the high difficulty baby.

+1

you are right about this smoothie. If this coin doesnt become reasonably established than this could definitely happen. Like you said though, he would need to spend quite a bit of his own resources in-order to troll people, he wouldn't gain anything from it. This definitely might happen but its also pretty reasonable to expect that it wont.

If it does than ill have a pretty good idea where we went wrong with bytecoin and we can try again with keeping all of bitcoins properties the same except implementing a new more adaptive difficulty re-targeting algo.

thanks for helping to bring some people back down to earth =)

Translation: You've become a hostage of your own coins  ;)

haha yea i suppose thats true. Not for long though. hopefully everything will sort its self out with the next retarget.