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Author Topic: [BTE] If we are going to make to the next retarget we must be zelots  (Read 2651 times)
Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2013, 05:05:03 PM by Anon136
 #1

Unfortunately mining isnt going to be profitable until the next re-target, thats right every second you spend mining bytecoin instead of bitcoin is time spent losing money. But you should do it anyway, and ill explain why.

We are in very dangerous territory right now. Bytecoin was a 1:1 copy of bitcoin which means it was released with a difficulty target of 1 just like bitcoin was. This made sense when bitcoin was released since there were very few miners using very primitive mining hardware. These days with asic this is no longer the case, so releasing bytecoin with a dificulty target of 1 was a huge mistake (hindsight is always 20/20). This incentivized massive amounts of mining power to enter into the market in an attempt to capitalize on blocks that were coming in so fast they were limited only by the latency in the network (as it turns out this is about 1 minute). The problem is that the bytecoin network interpreted this as meaning that there was far more hashing power legitimately interested in bytecoin than there actually was. After the retarget those looking for quick profits left the network and caused the re-target to massively over compensate.

This presents a very serious risk of creating a destructive feedback loop. Miners abandon the bytecoin network because blocks are coming in to slowly and this causes blocks to come in more slowly which causes more miners to abandon which causes blocks to come in more slowly until we never see another block again.

So then the question is why should you mine at a loss? The answer is that if you are holding bytecoin and we do not make it to the next retarget than your bytecoin will be worthless. If you are holding bytecoin and we do make it to the next re-target than they will almost certainly have a very bright future and be outrageously undervalued at current prices. So it is in your interest, if you are holding bytecoin, atleast for the time being, to mine at a loss. If we make it to the next re-target than it will be smooth sailing from there on, we know this because bytecoin is just bitcoin2 and we know bitcoin works.

If we ever get to the point where a single block takes more than 24 hours we will know that bytecoin as we know it is dead but this is not necessarily the end of the story. If we do encounter this feedback loop of death we can potentially hard fork. In this fork we would need to manually set the difficulty to where it should have always been. I think this is possible because there are so few of us. In fact i think i know almost everyone involved in bytecoin and i could send each person a personal message so hard forking should be very possible.

With that being said it would still be best to avoid this entirely by sticking with our resolve to mine even at a loss, because the rewards will be great if we can only be patient.

thanks for taking a look! anon136 signing out.

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Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 03:55:00 PM
 #2

Also make sure everyone you know who is involved in bytecoin reads this very important post

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Walter Rothbard
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April 11, 2013, 04:04:08 PM
 #3

I was afraid of this, but I think it is a temporary setback.  During that temporary setback, there might be all kinds of price fluctuations as the market probably did not factor in the thought of this happening into the price.

People who are committed to altcoins need to provide a decent amount of hashing power to get their coins to succeed.  There is just no way around it.  Mining at its core is really about securing the network.

I believe that long term, a fork of Bitcoin's blockchain like this is needed.  I think Bytecoin may have to weather some interesting times until it gets enough hashing power to be that fork.

Keep hashing!

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April 11, 2013, 04:45:47 PM
 #4

I am already mining worthless BTE on a single GPU (2011 of course  Cool ). How long do we have to mine to get to a normal difficulty again?

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April 11, 2013, 05:00:38 PM
 #5

I heard PPCoin has a way to do proof-of-stake so it's possible to avoid this difficulty issues. Can we evaluate going that route? 

Note I'm all for a hard fork, if needed can throw a couple GH/s at this.  Once I get my ASICs it'll be more than just a "couple" Wink

Cheers,
Mark
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April 11, 2013, 05:03:30 PM
 #6

I heard PPCoin has a way to do proof-of-stake so it's possible to avoid this difficulty issues. Can we evaluate going that route? 

Note I'm all for a hard fork, if needed can throw a couple GH/s at this.  Once I get my ASICs it'll be more than just a "couple" Wink

Cheers,
Mark

if we got 1 asic pointed at this thing consistently we would get past this next re-target no problem at all. you arnt by any chance in avalon batch 2?

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Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 05:11:58 PM
 #7

i cant believe no one responded with "my life for aiur"

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April 11, 2013, 05:29:09 PM
 #8

my 55 Mh/s working  Cool
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April 11, 2013, 05:37:35 PM
 #9

I'm contributing with my 260Mh/s. It's not much but it's better than nothing i guess

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Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 05:38:14 PM
 #10

thanks! every little bit helps!

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April 11, 2013, 05:40:25 PM
 #11

Also im going to add a 500 bte bounty to who ever can prepare an update for the client, just in-case we need to fork. Ill make a separate thread about it also.

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April 11, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
 #12

I don't have much hashing power yet but I'll switch my stuff over to bytecoin later today.  Is there a recommended pool to use?

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Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 05:51:28 PM
 #13

I don't have much hashing power yet but I'll switch my stuff over to bytecoin later today.  Is there a recommended pool to use?

do you use guiminer?

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April 11, 2013, 05:58:13 PM
 #14

I'm in!  I just joined pool.bytecoin.in and am throwing a couple of GH/s machines at it.

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April 11, 2013, 05:59:21 PM
 #15

I'm using cgminer and minerd (got 2 i7s @ decent hash rates).

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Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
 #16

I'm using cgminer and minerd (got 2 i7s @ decent hash rates).

than i would just use lucas jones' pool. i think its the most used.

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April 11, 2013, 06:01:24 PM
 #17

I used to mine at http://pool.bytecoin.in/payment.php, but the pool doesn't pay out anymore. Submitted 400 shares and didn't get any BTE.
Yesterday i mined at limitedloot, but today i can't seem to get in their list.. Already submitted 40 shares though.

Are there other pools around?

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April 11, 2013, 06:06:29 PM
 #18

I'm using cgminer and minerd (got 2 i7s @ decent hash rates).

than i would just use lucas jones' pool. i think its the most used.

It appears his pool is down, possibly for good since the forum post mentioned it's closed.

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Anon136 (OP)
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April 11, 2013, 06:09:37 PM
 #19

I'm using cgminer and minerd (got 2 i7s @ decent hash rates).

than i would just use lucas jones' pool. i think its the most used.

It appears his pool is down, possibly for good since the forum post mentioned it's closed.

i imagine since the re-target they wernt finding many blocks, its really starting to look like we are just going to have to fork.

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April 11, 2013, 08:09:47 PM
Last edit: March 11, 2014, 09:39:48 PM by coretechs
 #20

The problem is that anyone with ASICs can point at Bytecoin for a few days and kill the difficulty.

For Bytecoin to succeed, it needs a killer-application that creates incentive for bitcoin miners to mine BTE continually.  A proper exchange would be a good start.

I've been trying to think of a way that Bytecoin could be beneficial to Bitcoin.  Maybe there's some cool process we can do with transactions across chains.  If you think about it, bitcoin miners are stuck with bitcoin.  They can't mine altchains that don't use the same algo.  Maybe Bytecoin can function in a way where miners see it as a way to protect their hardware investments in ASICs.

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