Bitcoin Forum

MtGox state that the panic sell off was actually triggered by the sheer volume of people opening up accounts in order to BUY Bitcoins......doh.....so it wasn't a big fkn dirty manipulated speculative bubble at all, and if not for that tiny little technical hitch, then Bitcoin would be in the stratosphere by now, which is where it will be soon enough anyways.

So what are you waiting for people, smash up your piggy banks, empty your retirement funds, and charge back into Bitcoin!!!

If you don't believe me, here it is on the interwebz, so it must be true:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/11/bitcoin-price-drop-caused-by-rush-of-interest-not-ddos-says-mt-gox-exchange-newcomers-now-opening-20k-accounts-per-day/

 ::)


(incorrigible bunch of fkn wankers)

Translation: OP has lots of BTC and wants to pump the price up

Thanks. Helped me to understand his language.

If your English isn't quite up to scratch then there are plenty of foreign language subsections on these boards, perhaps your mother tongue is amongst them.

Perhaps the fact that English is a 2nd/3rd language to you guys also explains why you missed the very obvious irony in my post.

War is peace!

Yea I do use the german board pretty much as I am german. But you should adapt to the fact that you will meet more and more germans in english forums, since most germans actually speak english better then the average american. It is not my fault that the average american can´t speak two languages apart from the fact that most of them can´t even speak their own language. But anyway thanks for your admonition. I respect all opinions. But I hope you respect my opinion too if I say your irony is somewhat listless. Best greetings.

Also!

Weil Du Deutsch bist, hast du kein Verständis von Ironie. Das ist eine ganze klare Sache und nicht mal die Rede wert. Übrigens, der einzige Grund warum ihr Englisch lernen müsst, ist dass, ihr zwei größen Kriegen verloren habt und naturlich müsst ihr die Sprache Des Siegers lernen, weil ihr ganzes Land und Volk, sind jetzt Untertanen Der Vereinigten Staaten!

Hoch Achtungsvoll!

MatTheCat.

BE REAL; IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAYYYYYYYY. YOU KNOW IT'S JUST A LITTLE TOO LATEEEEEEEEEEEEE. YOU KNOW ALL THE RIGHT THINGS TO SAY... ITS JUST A LITTLE TOO LATE

You are too funny. So basically you want to tell me that we got attacked due to the reason that they wanted to conquer our country and to stamp us down? Your are hilarious or do I again miss the irony in your post?

No.

I am just saying, that the only reason that you all speak good English (not actually true but never mind), is because you are forced to learn it, as the post WW2 period heralded in an era of US political and economic hegemony, and cemented the English language's status as the global language of commerce, which begun in earnest with the spread of the British Empire into the largest empire that the world had ever seen.

Native English speakers are not forced to learn another language, as we already speak the language of the dominant global power. That is all.

You speak mandarin chinese then? :)

No, but perhaps my grandchildren will......

........whilst in a prison colony on Mars.

I don´t disagree... however... I am not forced to do anything neither lol. I could give a shit about english and it wouldn´t even hurt me. My stepdad is a great example.. he speaks russian, vietnamese, and a little bit persian and he hates english lnaguage and is still living! But you know what? I learned english and french because I love to be educated, because they are easy to learn and I think they are beatiful languages as well. Three languages give me way more access to informations which people who only speak english, never will have. Now that the US economic hegemony is over, do you really believe that I will learn chinese now?

People here give a shit about the US hegemony and they even give more and more shit about all that euro drama here. Things will change pretty soon. China will take economic and political hegemony. Anyway I won´t learn chinese. I like english and french because it gives me access to more informations... combined with german, this is superior.

Your so called hegemony is a complete joke.. every country could get this hegemony if they would be warmonger like the British Empire and the US in the past.
If the german empire would have been successful, I bet I still would have learned english or any other language.. just because it is always better to speak more then one language.
I don´t give a shit about who is the best warmonger.. not even if it would be my own country. I do not make decision to learn language because of any hegemony lol.

Lol, I'm gonna print this poster and hang it on my wall.

I dare you to try that on portuguese...

Yes, Mat. That is the price of the international success of your language. Everyone uses it, despite his capability. Isn't there pigdin-english?

I, as a natural born german, will use it, too. Everywhere I can and where it is necessary and/or appriate. You cannot do nothing about this. You should be glad that you cannot hear my awful german accent in using your god-given and so-fucking-pragmatic language ;) ...

More or less good german. I will translate this to make my point:

"So! Because you are german you cannot understand irony. This is absolutly clear and it is not needed to talk about his further. By the way, the reason you (the germans) have to learn english, is that you lost two big wars and, naturally, now you have to learn the language of the winner. Because your land and your people are now subjects of the USA! "

The "subject/Untertanen"-thing is not so far from reality for allmost everyone in my country (in other countries, too), but ...

Your military leadership/goverment/air force tried to prevent my birth. Allied pilots tried to burn/slash/kill/hurt the one-year-old baby my mother was at this time. On some psychological layers of myself I take this very personal.

But this was not your responsibility. It was the responsibility of the criminal US goverment/banking circles/establishment like it is today. Don't link yourself to such people. And read something not-mainstream about history.

I'm afraid you were too convincing in your first sentence or so. I certainly didn't read further than that the first time.

Relax dude.

I was on the wind up.

FYI. I am not American, I am Scottish but was happy to have 'Frost' believe that I was American if there was any chance that it might piss him off a bit more. Also, perhaps like most people who are interested in Bitcoin, I don't subscribe to the mainstream version of historical and current events, so you don't have to worry about me associating myself with the class of people who funded and supported the Hitlerian regime, providing him with the capability to wage war in the first place, before ensuring that he, and the population beneath him, were destroyed.

Being a serf under the wings of the beast that happened to be victorious is nothing more to be proud off than being a serf under the wings of the beast that was slain.

Nice. I relax - for now ;) ...

I am simply fed up of all that german bashing. Including all the germans bashing themselves into a hypnotic trance of guilt submission. That's the worst.

Agreed.

It never ceases to disappoint me, that Germans have a complete lack of an ability to appreciate the comedic potential of Hitler and the Nazis like we Brits do.

The level of self imposed guilt and repression is no way to deal with any traumatic past event, whether it be on a personal level or on a societal level. Whilst most Germans will tell you that this is a good thing because it ensures that such a movement can never happen again in Germany, I suspect the opposite may more likely be the case. Somewhere buried deep in the German psyche, is a knowledge that the eruption of the Nazi movement into mainstream German life happened for a reason, and so long as this cannot be acknowledged and the spiritual scars truly healed, then this conflict within the individual and collective unconscious will seek to resolve itself and will knock persistently against the doors of the conscious mind, perhaps one day breaking out and overcompensating into a re-embracement of much of the emotional and mental expression that was embodied in the Nazi ideology. This might especially be the case should the German economy suffer in the same way that the southern Med countries economies are going to suffer which will erode the material glue which is presently all that holds Western civilisation together.

Edit:

Having thought more about the matter. Perhaps one of the effects of the ever increasing multiculturalism of Germany, is that the effects of the collective spiritual volatility of the longer established native Germans, will be diluted. As people who haven't inherited the same spiritual tensions will not relate and react as readily to any outward expression of such tensions. Thus acting as a kind of resistance to any mass cultural expression (positive or negative) that might be triggered from within the native collective unconscious. Having said that, If the different cultures in Germany remain as segregated as say the Turks are from the native Germans, then obviously this could have a very negative effect on what may transpire once the wealth stops rolling in. This applies not to Germany, but perhaps the whole of Western Europe. I sometimes wonder whether the Muslim minorities that are being allowed to establish themselves throughout the West are not being set up as the scapegoats for the outbreak of social angst which may be yet to come.

LOL - this is not entirely true: http://www.youtube.com /watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7CwRZcBAm-Y#! (http://here), here (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hitler-comedy-cartoonist-starts-film-391987)



That's too much for now. Sorry. I just would say, that german national patriotism is way too important to let it be run by (National) Socialists or any other collectivistic tyranny.

That sounds just like a Paul von Hindenberg quote from 1933.  ;)

I can honestly say I get some great LOL's on this forum... ;D

EVERYONE is RIGHT! and wrong, or BOTH!... perspectives, viewpoints, analyzing every word of someone's post...  ?

Jeez can't we all just buy more bitcoins so the price will go up again??? LOL.

Or drive the price into the ground so the pewy ole bears can rebuy and be big balls bullish.! :D

LOL,
TC

Yeah, everyone has their own individual take on matters, mostly based around what they personally want to happen for whatever reasons.

In the end though, it is not individuals who determine what happens but the much more measurable and predictable effects of mass psychology that will determine what Bitcoin does from here onwards, the odd unforseeable X Factor not withstanding of course.

Right now, we are hearing a lot from people who believe that $100 for a Bitcoin is a fire sale price. These and the other class of investors who believe that there are lots of these type of people around, are the sorts who instigate the predictable 'dead cat bounce' effect, which nearly always has the effect of prolonging the life/death of any zombie stock or intangible asset.

imo complete bullshit and a sight of germany that is from the late 90s.
I'm german and the multiculturalism has changed in the last decade for good.
Main problem in germany in the past was that every minority that came from other countrys to work here were mainly rural people that had much more tendencies to stay in their communities than people from bigger cities which pushed the segregation. that given and the problem of a more right than centered government for longer than 10 years (which made politics not in favor of multiculturalism) the reunion of germany build a vaccuum, because eastgermans haven't even met foreign people in their life, but for russians and people from exsovietunion states.
as a result many eastgermans got right-wing tendencies which peaked in an assault of a hostel for asylum seekers in rostock-lichtenhagen 1992.
after that the masses woke up and up to now every march of right-wing extremist in citys is accompanied by huge counterdemonstrations.
The second generation of immigrants especially turks is integrated in german society much better because of growth of their middleclass.
At the moment we have problems both with small rightextremist (Nationalsocialist Underground has killed 23 immigrants) and muslim extremist groups (mainly salafis).
But these people represent less than 1% of german society. imo in every other country there are the same problems, in germany it is dealt even better with it because of our history. (although the authorities still need to evolve in that point)
The flood of immigrants since the crisis right now is immense (50.000 people per month mainly from greece and spain), but they all go to the big cities which evolved to huge melting pots, where the prejudices are not as big as in rural areas.
So to finish my history lesson everythings going relatively well and i really doubt that during a big crisis germans start bashing the immigrants.
The right-wing groups will get more attention for sure, as in every country when a society starts crumbling, but i doubt that things will happen like in greece where small groups start hunting immigrants through the streets. (ok if everythings shattered every society has these phenomenons. in great-britain extremists would probably start hunting pakistanis)
The main advantage of german society is its past because that pushes awareness much more earlier to fight xenophobia than in countries that don't have that history.

sorry big post here, but as a german hearing such stuff quite often from foreigners this is the only thing that pushes in me some tendencies to be proud for my country.
and imo hitler is quite funny (you knew he was on meth most of the time at the end?), we have lot of parody movies of him.
(by the way merkel is a big fat bitch)
....back to bitcoin please!

i hereby proclaim this issue brought to an end
https://i.imgur.com/bnszgFw.jpg

why are yo not suporting him you sold out and so why not huuurrraaa this! so you can buy back in at a lower rate.

btw did you ever buy anything with all your coins you had??? just a question dont hate on me

Firstly, you cannot post a comedy Hitler picture and declare victory in a forum argument.

Secondly, with all due respect, what you have wrote is just your own personal take on things, which is very different from that of many other people, and I include German people in that. For example, at current breeding rates, native German's are set to become a minority in their own country within 70 years. Perhaps there is as much chance of this happening as there was of Bitcoin smashing the $1000 barrier, but with current immigration and breeding rates held even, this is what would be set to happen. I know this because German political establishment figures consider these sort of things such a problem that books have been written about it.

The multiculturalism problem however, and by that I mean largely segregated minority communities, is a pan European problem, not just a German problem. Certainlly in the UK, it is a huge problem and tensions are on the rise. Of course, as long as everyone has full bellies and enough people consider themselves as 'middle class', then there is not likely to ever be problems on a large scale. Real problems will only arise when the wealth stops flowing in.

The other thing I wrote about was probably a bit abstract for this forum and certainly way off topic. But basically I am paraphrasing Jungian psychology which would suggest that the way in which Germany has handled its 'war guilt', i.e. through streng self repression and punishment, wouldn't be a method of handling the issues that would help bring closure to the issue.

Firstly, sorry that was perhaps a bit too much, i should have marked it as german irony

secondly, right perhaps i live in that small mulitcultural bubble in the city where i don't see the main problem. I know that breeding levels in germany are a problem and society is shifting more and more to excess of age.
But you can't say germans will become a minority in their own land. It's mixing up and society is sucking up a big part of the different minorities. Some of my best friends are this second generation of immigrants and they see themselves as germans with immigrant roots. I think that the european union surely is seesawing beetween melting together and segregating at the same time (more extremly during times of crisis), but i would foresee a developement like in USA. Sure it takes centuries for that to happen, but every american sees himself firstly as american and secondly as a mixture of different origins. imo europe is also going to become more and more a melting pot like america after a long period of time and no doubt there will be many battles but that's good for the longterm. Every destruction builds up a change to the better. At this topic I always think in timespans of 100 years or more. There will perhaps be some national dictatorshiplike tendencies in several countries that slow this progress down but in the end I believe there will be that european citizen that sees himself as that.

And about that Jungian philosophy you have to take in mind that with every next generation that part of our own history is handled with a much more distant and abstract approach and less feeling of being "guilty" that is "deep-rooted" in german brains. The movement of the first post-war generation in germany evolved 1968 because there was no real reflection at all up to that point but mostly denial (I'm second post-war generation and sure i heard things from my grandfather, but personally the only thing i internalized from it all is no feeling of guilt but awareness of what's happening politically and going on the streets when things seem to go wrong.
There are countries around germany that have far more problems handling their history during that time because there was little to none internal reflection at all but complete denial and pushing guilt towards the germans. (e.g. italy with mussolini and the complicity in many countries that were occupied by nazi germany)


I think your thought process is kind of right at the beginning but personally it corresponds to me more to the mood in germany during the 90s. At the latest since World Cup 2006 things have changed. That was the first time since the fall of berlin wall that I saw germans had no feeling of guilt when waving their flag and since then the penny has dropped in a way.
but hey that's just my personal opinion and it's defintively not the opinion of the average man.
I just realize that perhaps i have a different kind of complex of guilt corresponding this subject. I channel it towards taking this a bit too serious and explaining my thoughts everytime it's mentioned. (so Jung there you are :-))
next time i just go "meh, i don't care", whatever thanks for that little sokratian self-awareness and I don't want to declare victory to that argument
but let's just say everyone has their opinion and it's good to see things from a different angle and think about it in a new way

Ahahah, I've never seen this before. This is going in my file! Thank you good sir for giving this thread a redeeming quality.

by the way haven't payed attention to that pic for the last three posts.
back to business...uh gox not lagging and back at 100$
nice

The multiculturalism problem in Europe (and Germany) is basically a moslem problem. They do not integrate, they don't want to integrate and the cannot (because of their religious and cultural mental programming) integrate. Moslems and non-Moslems can only co-exists without violence (I do not say "peacefully") under hard dictatorship. Without that you cannot live in peace with moslems, once they reached a certain number. This is proved by reality in dozens of countries.

In Germany moslems (so called youngsters by the media) are killing young german males. Every week. They do it very brutally by jumping on the head. For nothing reasonably, the real motivation behind is applying power for the own ethnic/religious group. Very simple.

Mainstream media ignores this. Justice is weak. Churches and mayors are talking about "tolerance" and "racism" and "fight against right people". The brutality and insanity of young moslems is increasing, therefore.

But most of the young germans are too brainwashed and damaged by leftist ideology, gender mainstreaming, computer games, disfunctional families and ... to take a stand. They are too stupid, pussified, timid and cowardly to take back control over street life in the big cities. The young moslems here are running around as they are the kings of the country. No south american poor and uneducated latino macho would tolerate this moslem behaviour, they are showing here, for even one second.

This is so simple, but the germans (and the other europeans) don't get it.

This is the first time in which I come across such a simple, yet very realistic explanation of what is going on here in Europe.
I'm in Amsterdam at the moment and this is all too evident. It's the same as in south-eastern Europe, where the gypsies are doing the same as the moslems- killing and pillaging. And the local population are helpless in front of these bullsh*t EU tolerance policies...

Thank you very much. I am very alone here with that opinions. When I state things like this, people perceive me as evil right-winged nazi-racist.

This.

Spass muss sein ;)

Multiculturalism, depending in how things pan out, can have two effects on a native population. The first effect, the effect which is most lauded by the political left, is that it peacefully injects new influences into the native culture, we all get along hand in hand, make friendships with people whose heritage spawns from another continent, a different religious background, a markedly different racial type etc. This trend of course, will bring about changes to the character of the native culture. Depending on the nature of such changes and the attitudes of the native population, these changes can of course be viewed as positive and negative, and one mans negative may well be another man's positive. Ultimately, immigration and mixing of genetics is obviously a desirable thing to a certain extent, as the physical condition and appearance alone of any traditionally closed or isolated communities around the world should demonstrate. On the otherhand, perhaps a native population may possess peculiar and very specific talents, which will be lost should blood and cultures mix. For example, some Australian aboriginals have the ability to go into drug induced trances and perform the amazing feat of drawing a rough map of areas of land which have been under sea for 20'000 years, the accuracy of which modern day western scientists can verify using technological instruments (yes, this has been done). The Aboriginal's explanation as to how he could accomplish this task, was that he simply 'asked his ancestors' to tell him. My contention is that should this Aboriginal have married a white woman, then it would become increasingly unlikely that any of his successors be capable of performing a similar feat, as since the 'channels to the ancestors' would not be so clear for his offspring. No doubt, I have lost anyone who is reading this, but my contention (backed up by the latest genetic and psychological research), is that in addition to physical characteristics, that our mental characteristics are also essentially a product of our ancestry. The idea of a mind being born as a 'blank sheet', waiting to be coloured in by life experience, is now largely seen as a defunct view of the human mind, although this is still the prevailing view in the political mainstream, with anyone who dares to deviate from it, risking being labelled as a racist.

So whilst mixing of cultures and bloods plays an important role in injecting fresh ideas and characteristics into a population, it can also have the effect of diluting pre-existing cultural ideas and characteristics, both positive and negative ones. Whilst it wouldn't be controversial to point out that any population with too narrow a genepool will suffer, it would certainly be controversial to state that probably, there is a limit to which the extent of genepool mixing may be considered as beneficial. Perhaps too much racial mixing just results in a loss of identity, leaving an unhinged, homogenised, easy to manipulate consumerist population, increasingly trained to be slaves to their own base impulses. So that is the multiculturalism when populations integrate.

However, large swathes of immigrants from Muslim lands, have shown the tendency not to integrate into their host cultures. In contrast to Westerners and other ethnic minorities, Muslim communities have held a much firmer grip on their traditional values and practices, just as they also have had an overwhelming tendency to breed within their own distinct religious and racial group (45% of Muslims in UK marry 1st cousins, the majority of the rest, marry 2nd cousins). This pattern is pretty much consistent across the whole of Western Europe and the end result has been a growing number of 'island' communities, whose traditional and clear values, stand often in direct opposition to those of the liberal, consumerist and increasingly self homogenising culture that surrounds them. In the face of the increasing corruption of modern day Western consumer culture, perhaps there are strong arguments in favour of Muslim communities holding tight to their own values, as well as strong arguments against the much lower level of personal freedom within Muslim communities. Whatever the case, when situations arise where there are two very distinct groups of people that see themselves as very different to one another, some form of sectarian tension inevitably develops.

As has been discussed already in this thread (sorry, off topic quite some time ago), most German youth are 'too stupid' or 'brainwashed' to see the wood from the trees on such issue. What I would say is that as a legacy of the war guilt, the expression of any kind of sentiment that can be seen to allude to something along the lines of being proud of ones own culture, or feeling somewhat unsettled by and alien to the cultures of recent immigrant populations, would be a fast track to social ostracisation. In otherwords, not cool, just don't go there. Whilst this self denying effect may be most pronounced in Germany, the same changes have occurred in the collective conscious across the whole of Western Europe. In the UK, the majority of people who tend to be actively up in arms about 'immigration' or the muslimification of many areas of the UK's inner cities tend to be from a neglected white impoverished working class background and I am sure the same general rule applies across Europe. This would suggest that sectarianism thrives on poverty. Thus, so long as the wealth keeps rolling in, people in the West will tend to be more focused on getting on with living their lives and will tend not to pay too much attention to any negative aspects of multiculturalism, and can afford to subscribe and/or pay lip service to the prevailing socially approved leftist attitude towards people and communities of different ethnic background and creed, whilst focusing only on the positive. The danger will come when or if, one day, the wealth in the West actually does stop rolling and a significant proportion of the population are facing poverty. That is when the shit could start. People who are getting slapped down in life, have an emotional need to find an easy scapegoat. I believe that those scapegoats could turn out to be the insular Muslim communities which have established themselves sporadically throughout Western nations. The angry mob, will not be so likely to direct its attention towards the parasite vampires operating in the world of high finance, that are as we speak, sucking the wealth of the planet dry, or direct its anger towards the adherents of the Zionist ideology that have presided over the course of Western and by default, global history over the past 100 years. No. The dispossessed population will direct its angst towards the Muslim populations who 'hate us' and who are 'stealing our jobs and using up our homes'.

Despite what one German poster stated about everything being sweet with multiculturalsim where he lives, recently a spate of mainstream politicians across the EU, I am talking David Cameron, Angela Merkel have made public statements proclaiming that 'the multicultural experiment has failed'. Also in Britain, their has been the emergence of a fringe political group called the English Defence League. Although labelled as an extremist right wing racist group, the EDF state that they love homosexuals, black, yellow, and brown people, they love the Queen, they love Jews and support Israel, and they even love all people of all religions, except Muslims. They just hate those Muslims! Although many of the people who may subscribe to the EDF may well be of your regular simple minded bonehead variety, I would suspect that due to its largely politically correct and Zionist friendly credentials, that the EDF is in fact in some way a project of the British internal security service, whose purpose is to misdirect any outbreak of social angst onto Muslim communities, as opposed to it being directed on more deserving targets or in ways that is not so easy for the established powers to control. Perhaps this is all happening by design, from the breaking down of traditional Western values and the homogenisation of multi ethnic Western populations into mindless, rootless consumers constantly seeking yet further gratification of the base instincts, to the emergence of the segregated populations who stand out in stark contrast to the cultural milieu that surrounds them.

Whether it was faked by the anti-semitic Tsarist secret police or not, it all seems a bit like what was described in the Protocols of Zion to me.

Maybe correct. But this is not getting to the point:

If you understand the mohammedanic belief system (It is about world domination at all costs. Beheading unbelievers is an spriritual act for a moslem. Mohammed himself, the explicit ideal for every moslem, was a psychopatic, sadistic and murderous criminal, according to their very own stories), you know that you cannot live with them. And you can see that everywhere in the actual world right now.

This is totally independent from handling the NWO-vampires. Even if the NWO set this immigration up (what they did), this is independent. I don't start to tolerate something sick as the moslem belief system only because another sick player introduced this into my world.

And this cousin marriage thing damages their gene pool. Look at statistics about their intelligence and inherited mental and physical diseases. It's scientific proven. How can I tolerate something like this around me?



Those insular Muslim communities which have established themselves sporadically throughout Western nations are something around 60 million people in whole europe. 60 years ago there were 500.000 moslems in europe. This is not immigration. This is invasion, and the moslems themselves state this very clearly.

And - regarding the moslem belief system - this is not about moral, ethics or angry mobs (anymore). It is us or them.



Of course the EDF (and others) is an instrument in the arrangement of the planned and upcoming social unrests. Most of them don't know this, yet. But this doesn't change the fact that you cannot live in peace with moslems. But you can live in peace with arabs converted to christian faith.

I don't hate moslems. That would distort clear perception, when its needed.




LOL - I personally think (cannot prove this), that in 8th/9th centrury some arab leaders contracted some jewish intellectuals/propagandists to design them a useful belief system ("religion") for their masses, setting a strong accent on aggressive expansion. The mental program code of islam is ideal for a stupid and relentlessly fighting soldier. (The Nazis liked that a lot about islam.) They (the arab leaders) took jews for the job, because their own people were too stupid for that.

In my opinion the protocols of zion are fake. Just look at the content. For a long-period strategic planning it is in many ways to specific. And the long term aspects described are too general, too inflexible/specific and somehow bad for being useful.

But you don't need the protocols of zion to feed anti-judaismus. The CEO of Goldman Sachs talking about doing "God's work" does that job perfectly. By the way, in the moment I am listening to the main theme of the movie "Exodus". Very touching.

I dont know how valid it is to view the fact the Muslims tend to marry within their extended families as a reason to think of them as somehow undesirable neighbours and grounds to explain their supposed stinted intelligence, as up until relatively recently, peoples of Western nations were the exact same. Indeed, this is what would be a breeding pattern consistent with any peoples who would consider themselves as part of a historical tribe or clan, etc.

There have been countless studies that have proven the tendency for sectarian behavior to emerge when two sets of humans are put into two distinct and segregated groups, a very famous one being the Stanford Prison Study, upon which the film Das Experiment was based on. I think any intelligent person would want to avoid allowing himself and his thinking to being drawn into such base instinct sectarian group think patterns and beliefs. Of course, depending on a persons circumstances and social surroundings, this may be easier said than done.

Whatever insane dribblings come out of the mouths of the extreme right wing of Muslim society, ultimately, these people have no power. Perhaps many of them want to islamify the West, they may also believe the world would be a better place if everyone were Muslim, and some may even believe that a grand plan of Islamification is underway. Naturally, non Muslims have a right to object to such views, however, ultimately these people are powerless. They don't control the financial system, vital raw materials, or vast military might at their disposal. Ultimately they are just a bunch of powerless mouth pieces just like everyone else.

I see the whole focus of attention towards 'the Islam problem' as a sort of divide and conquer strategy, plain and simple. Yes, the two little groups may believe that they have good reason and may fight bitterly like two hens in a cage, but will either of the two hens ever stop and consider whose were the hands, that placed them in the cage and then goaded them into fighting to begin with? Perhaps the real enemies are not the hens, but those who are making sure that the fight takes place to begin with?

No. In the intellectual logic you maybe are right, but you don't get the problem. Learn and understand the islamic belief system and compare this to their actual sayings and actions. Look at the numbers. You can do this in two hours.