Bitcoin Forum

In which Krugman proves he's a fluffer for the Federal Reserve.


That an idiot like Krugman has any influence in this culture just ensures Bitcoin's future success. This is the same idiot that said the net was a passing fad.

AND YOU CAN'T EAT GREEN PIECES OF PAPER, EITHER.

CAN I GET A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE GRAND PRIZE WINNER OF THE FLUFFIEST SHEEP AWARD?

The fact this guy got 93 thumbs up is fucking appalling.

/wrists

49% of the population is of below average intelligence. It's Krugman's fan base.

I just can't believe people line up to get fleeced like this.  I don't understand the herd mentality.  Most people know they're getting fucked, that their banks are literally fucking them, and then they turn around and say they don't want to do anything about it, and continue to use the very cash the banks put out.  It's just madness.  Tell me this is a really bad dream and I just need to wake up.

Actually, you can. Roughage, baby. They're better as toilet paper, though - but don't flush 'em, they'll clog the drain.

It's a bad dream. Wake up.

Did it work?

You're right. The world just got a little darker.

Har har well, I wouldn't recommend it ;D  Unless you're a billy goat, in which case, carry on.  I don't know about the caloric value of a dollar but I assume it's not high enough to sustain you for long.

Well, it's mostly wood pulp and cotton... dietary value for a human would be almost nil. But it will fill you up, and the coke might act as an appetite suppressant, so you'll starve, but at least you won't starve hungry.

lol... This sentence is gold, too:


Bet they said that in Wiemar Germany, too.

But ultimately they want to be looked after by the government and the government tells them that they have to use their money and the banks that lend it.   Therefore they whinge and they moan about the injustice but do what they are told.  Anything else is unthinkable for the majority of people.  They have had this drilled into them at the schools since they were young.  

It's not that surprising when you think about it.  The problem is that you have broken out of this way of thinking and most people haven't yet.

It's like being at a slumber party and waking up before everyone else.  It's like: what do I do now?  Guess I'll lay in bed and wait for everyone else to get up.

I would suggest getting up and making breakfast.  Things like milk will probably run out before everyone else gets up.  The early bird...

You were probably sarcastic, but since IQ follows a normal distribution : no.

I'm very disappointed in Krugman. Here's someone that seemed to at least think a little bit before speaking (from the previous articles I read from him), and here he has just shown that he actually didn't even bother to research the subject before writing an article...

That is quite amusing, did you know that the visa network is structured exactly like Bitcoin? lol! if they can trace visa, they can trace bitcoins.

The quote certainly is memorable for its LOLZable stupidity - also note what he's giving away in the following quote:


He means that the Fed is going to "soak up excess liquidity" to "prevent runaway inflation" (I believe the technical term is "reverse repos" - basically they take money out of circulation). But guess what - they are afraid to do it because the US economy will REALLY TANK. A Fed chairman has never been in this uncomfortable position, he's in "uncharted waters". Since the Chinese hold $1 trillion in US debt, the main out is to start World War III - that's what Keynes always said. The problem with Krugmonster is that he IS smart - like many other mainstream "nobel" economists he's opted to lie in service of banksters.

Enter the Bitcoin, I think if he wants a solution he should look at bitcoin a deflationary currency for tips.
but it bothers me to see this contradition in the article how he says, that bitcoin is a self fullfilling prophecy that people will accept it yet just a few paragraphs down claims that the reason people use gold was because people thought it was  of exchange value...   I'm confused :-\

Gold’s value comes in part because it has nonmonetary uses, such as filling teeth and making jewelry; paper currencies have value because they’re backed by the power of the state, which defines them as legal tender and accepts them as payment for taxes. Bitcoins, however, derive their value, if any, purely from self-fulfilling prophecy, the belief that other people will accept them as payment.

and then ....

Even when people relied on gold and silver coins, what made those coins useful wasn’t the precious metals they contained, it was the expectation that other people would accept them as payment.

He is completely ignoring the fact that someone sometime had to begin accepting coins because they were a useful measure of exchange... can you see the similarities with a certain...

to save you the trouble of reading it, people bartered the most useful item of exchange. Bitcoins strength is it's security (administered by the miners) and also the ease with which it can be transferred converted into any form of goods from point A to B. I've been looking at online adds with people trading video cards, services directly on the forums for Bitcoins... I think something is happening here and this article may make things clear.

http://moneymorning.com/ob-article/schiff-us-will-win-currency-war.php?code=3243#.UW3uJbXvs-c

Maybe it will become apparent to you after reading that article that there is something very disturbing happening... The markets have always crashed when the stock markets reach record highs... I know economic theory, the cost of hiding and preventing the markets to autocorrect themselves is devastating...I am very afraid.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-16/bitcoin-dreams-endure-to-savers-crushed-by-cpi-argentina-credit.html

The emergence of money

Anatolian obsidian as a raw material for stone-age tools was distributed as early as 12,000 B.C., with organized trade occurring in the 9th millennium.(Cauvin;Chataigner 1998)[15] In Sardinia, one of the four main sites for sourcing the material deposits of obsidian within the Mediterranean, trade in this was replaced in the 3rd millennium by trade in copper and silver.[16][17][18][19]

As early as 9000 BC both grain and cattle were used as money or as barter (Davies)(the first grain remains found, considered to be evidence of pre-agricultural practice date to 17,000 BC[20]).[21][22] The importance of grain with respect to the value of money is inherent in language where the term for a small quantity of gold was "grain of gold" <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3FomAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA62&dq=weight+of+one+wheat+grain&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jzXfT47IF8Wp0QW_37mKCw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=weight%20of%20one%20wheat%20grain&f=false The Bankers magazine, Volume 25] Herring, Farrell and Sherman 1871 – Retrieved 2102-06-18</ref>[23]

In the earliest instances of trade with money, the things with the greatest utility and reliability in terms of re-use and re-trading of these things (their marketability), determined the nature of the object or thing chosen to exchange. So as in agricultural societies, things needed for efficient and comfortable employment of energies for the production of cereals and the like were the most easy to transfer to monetary significance for direct exchange. As more of the basic conditions of the human existence were met to the satisfaction of human needs,[24] so the division of labour increased to create new activities for the use of time to solve more advanced concerns. As peoples needs became more refined, so indirect exchange became more likely as the physical separation of skilled labourers (suppliers) from their prospective clients (demand) required the use of a medium common to all communities, to facilitate a wider market.[2][25]

Aristotle's opinion of the creation of money[6] as a new thing in society is :

When the inhabitants of one country became more dependent on those of another, and they imported what they needed, and exported what they had too much of, money necessarily came into use.[26]
The worship of Moneta is recorded by Livy with the temple built in the time of Rome 413 (123); a temple consecrated to the same god was built in the earlier part of the fourth century (perhaps the same temple).[27][28][29] The temple contained the mint of Rome for a period of four centuries.[30][31]

Yeah, like 6 years temporary ... no end in sight and no way to cut back on the "balance sheet expansion" ... i.e. massive money printing, without complete market collapse ensuing immediately.

I don't think there's any need to suggest Krugman is stupid based on this.

He is a thoughtful man and a recipient of a Nobel prize for economics, you might disagree with him and think his theories are dead wrong- but being wrong is different to being an unsophisticated thinker. Let's be mature about this.

There's an old saying: It's impossible to convince a man of an idea, especially when his salary depends upon his not understanding the idea.

That's the kind of conditioned stupid Krugman is, as well as many in DC. The paradigm they believe in makes them stupid.

A bit of a clusterfluffer we have here, mates.

Like most neo-keynesians he has repeatable gaps in his own logic and when win he can't win a debate by pissing off the opposing side he decides to act snide and patronising instead, that is unsophisticated thinking at its finest, in fact, sounds a lot like the way a religious person acts I think.

agree, I prefer to be a skeptic and look at the pros and cons, and the interesting aspects, with a nobel price i'm willing to delve into his works and find out about why he thinks the way he does, who knows could find something interesting.

Ever since I first learned how the fiat system works, I've seen the Federal Reserve and its defenders as a religion. Their irrationality and their devotion to their cause is just as religious as any true believer in any sect or cult.

It's always a good idea to weigh before deciding but in my 20 or so years of following Krugman, he's had the amazing ability of being wrong about every trend in front of him. Maybe your research of him will prove me wrong.

A Nobel Prize means nothing. Some of the biggest warmongers of the past 100 years have received Nobel Peace Prizes.

A Nobel Prize means even less when it's not in Nobel's will...

The Nobel Prize has been an embarrassment for quite some time. Anyone impressed by it simply doesn't do much in-depth reading...


+1
A fiat system has to have religious following of most of its member, otherwise it will fail. Krugmonster knows that if he denounced the Fed it would cause major upheaval. Hence he has no choice but to "go all Greenspan" and cheerlead Bernanke.

“When you tell a lie, tell a big one. When you tell a little one they’re less likely to believe you. Tell a big one instead and keep on telling it until they believe you.”

what if they have no choice and just to keep afloat begin to buy bitcoins, skyrocketing the price? Now then they would really have an incentive to not sell any of their Government owned bitcoins; Because they would know that the deflationary system used by bitcoin would prop up the economy while the Dollar was low.

Now the safety of that would be quite questionable since, whats to stop everyone else from cashing in on the skyrocketing value? therefore dampening and leveling the market, If they didn't inject enough money into it to offset everyone else cashing out they'll lose money... and Bitcoin is world wide so thats a lot of people.

by the way, i'm just guessing. everyone is still trying to figure out how to more or less understand how Bitcoin behaves.  Just guessing.

Excellent connection ;D  I've always considered Anarchism to be akin to Atheism; when you shed this kind of light on it, Anarchism is Atheism.

Govt is very much so a religion.  It has the same underpinnings as the religions do ie. none.  And it's defenders, when they realise they have no empirical proof of authority, basically go back to the "well, we need religion/the state".   Fear is a big part of both as well.  Making people scared so that they will follow the dictates of the govt/religion.

They have their songs glorifying them.  Anthems/Hymns.

In most Western Countries the govt are comprised of ministries.   And you have the Prime Minister etc...

You can actually go on and on.

Teachings of the Bene Gesserit?

By way of Frank Herbert. :)

HOW DARE YOU MONSTERS ATTACK MY PRECIOUS KRUGGY!?

That man is a genius! Why else would they give him a Nobel Prize? or a column at the best news source on the planet (the NY Times)? 

Look, He's been right about gold being in a bubble, he's been right about our total lack of inflation, and 100% correct that we need to massively expand our welfare state by printing money. 

IN FACT I wouldn't be surprised if he's right about BTC to.  Based solely on that article, i'm considering selling all my BTC and buying shares of APPL instead.

Y'allz is chumps... chump-muffins even...

LOL Ya BUT

there's something just wrong with anyone who finds Kruggie Simply Irresistable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrGw_cOgwa8

Krugman has had a great recession in that he warned of it, he warned that austerity would make it worse, he warned that the stimulus was too small and he warned that deflation was a bigger danger than inflation.  As he predicted, the Fed has been printing money for years and it will carry on doing so for years and there is no way for inflation to take off.

He does have an openly disclosed political point of view; he believes that one of the main purposes of economics is to ensure full employment.  Bitcoin and gold both are unsuited to ensuring full employment so naturally he does not want them to succeed.

This is an unsupported conjecture .. i.e. waffle. It's a complete myth that monetary policy can affect employment figures over the long term. Periods on the gold standard in the 1800's were marked by long spells of full employment.

As I said, he has a point of view.  You do too.  Economics is not like physics where you can precisely measure mass, velocity and make laws of motion based on empirical data.  Economic data is hard to measure and it can be interpreted to suit your own prejudices.  People very rarely change their minds.

As for Bitcoin, none of this matters.  Bitcoin will not succeed by getting endorsed by economists - it will succeed by being a better commercial option than fiat currency in certain markets.  Cryptocurrency is the ultimate free market experiment.

Openly disclosed? 

Naw.  He knows just like we know that full employment is a necessary condition for severe inflation or hyperinflation, and for that reason, the powers that be do not want it and must insure it does not occur.

Your note about why Kruggie doesn't want bitcoin or gold to succeed is just an inference.  He hasn't said what you imply.  But I'd think he'd be "opposed to gold and bitcoin" because his stand would be to "support the US dollar as long as possible and then some." 

Well, that and AnCap. ;)