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Hello people

I wanted to share with you an awesome, incredible documentary about the coming fall of the Western civilization.

It's called "The Four Horsemen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

I'm sure most of you won't take the time to watch it as it's 1h40 long but it's the best documentary on the subject I've ever seen.

The idea is that Empires have always the same evolution. And the documentary tries to show how the cycle of creation and destruction of empires are currently in place.
We're on the last phase, the one of decadence.
And we're fighting it exactly like empires have always done... By making war and closing our borders...
And it has never worked in the entire Human history :/

Now we have a short term Singularity, technological and otherwise.

Past history, bah.

The reason why Humanity will always fail :/

Not taking account of the past is the first mistake of humans...
"this time it's different"
No
Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

Economic singularity.

The end of fiat money (possibly)

The rise of AI

This time it's very, very different.

and that affects all civilisations, not just the western ones. we might be fine, we might be screwed. but the main thing that's different this time is that we're all in it together.

Okay, let's expand on this a bit.  To understand, one would read .... what ?

Kurzweil, Singularity is Near

What else?

Empires will rise and fall, but the growth of mankind is always on an upward trend.

The closing of borders doesnt mean that there will be a war coming and will destroy the Western Civilization. Destruction of Wetern Civilization is not going to happen just because of war but if Trump did not close the borders soon the immigrants culture will spread and will eat the culture and the government of the State. People from Islamic countries loves to propagate while westerners loves birth control. Time will come when the number of immigrants will be much more compare to the Americans then there will be a change of Administration. Immigration of muslims is not longer migration but a form of invasion.

The west has probably done more than the rest of the world combined and tends to be very resourceful. China is getting much stronger and may start throwing their weight around much more. Besides having a lot of land and nuclear weapons, Russia is relatively weak with their economy. The only advantages of authoritarian government is forcing through infrastructure upgrades - but even this can backfire environmentally or cause people to overthrow them.

As powerful as china is getting econimical wise its in their interest not to push their weight about. They export massive amounts of products worldwide and it would bevery risky to lose the billions of $ that flows into the country every year.

I never watched the documentary but the difference between then and now is we have a worldwide communications system so civilised nations can communicate instantly which means the chances of civilised societies letting each other dwindle out are pretty slim.

Not much sure about that. Earth is running out of space, and the basic natural resources are getting scarce. And in turn, this is causing an upswing in the incidence of major wars and confrontations.

Well i didn't actually watch the entire link but its very interesting and i may finish it duting some idle time. Though i think it raised a valid point. With whats happening now, i think western hold globally may be dwindling a bit and powers from the east may be able to challenge that hold. But i think we're still far from seeing a change of power. Let's face it, as of now, america is still thr most powerful country and would most likely be like that in a couple of more years unless trump does something too foolish

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high...

No.  The current realities of world wide communications, economic interdependence and general raising up of living standards are a new thing in human history.   

We may be seeing a diminishing of the importance of the nation-state in the overall scheme of things; but this is not the same as a "decline of western civilization."

In fact, as these realities are the outgrowth of western civilization, perhaps it shows the emerging world dominion of western civilization.

Some of the new civilizations comes with economical and technological development. But some others are quite the opposite. There are a few examples. The first one is Afghanistan. This was Afghanistan during the 1970s:

http://20961-presscdn.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/1-Tehran-ca.-1960s-1970s.jpg

And this is Afghanistan now:

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/140404164722-afghan-women-10-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

You don't understand... I'll try to say it with simple words.

Yes the current communication and economic interdependence and living standards are a new thing in human history.
When Egyptian Empire emerged, the use of pictural alphabet (don't know the exact word) was a new thing in human history and so were the economic interdependence of the different cities and the living standards of Egyptian citizens.
When Roman Empire emerged, the use of paper and alphabet in a whole Empire was a new thing in human history, and so were the economic interdependence of the provinces of the Empire and the living standards of Roman citizens.
When European culture and civilization emerged, printing was a new thing to human history, and so were the economic interdependence of the different countries and the living standards of... Ok not the living standards this time, actually I'm not sure a French citizen lived better than a Roman one, or at least I can't say it's a fact it would need some research.


What I try to say is that EVERYTIME we reach a new all time high in various domain, and EVERYTIME the "singularity" you're describing (and I'm well aware of the numerous theories at least concerning digital and AI singularities) isn't happening but on the contrary the Empire collapses.

I am afraid that we survived so far only because we, as human species wasn't able destroy the world completely.
Current generation is always convinced that they are the most brightest people and the order of things they know will be forever.
From history we can confirm that this is huge cognitive bias and it is the reason we are, and will be plagued by economic crises.
Every civilization before was convinced that they will last forever, it never happened. I don't believe that technical singularity will help us with this.

those picture looks fake,like painting

You mis state premises, then draw illogical overly broad conclusions, and then double down on wrong.   And no, you don't seem familiar with singularity.  Or having read of it, did not understand disruptive technologies.   Ref original paper by Vernon Vinge.

Let's simplify.

Collapse = percentage of houses world wide with air conditioning goes down
Anti-Collapse = percentage of houses world wide with air conditioning goes up

Enough said.

Yes... it is difficult to believe that advanced civilizations can degrade to stone-age, like what has happened with Afghanistan. Afghanistan of the 1960s and 1970s seems like a mirage now.

Please just take some time to read.
Maybe I didn't understand your premise but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is false, it's always the same: you have a huge increase in all domains, including technology but there are signs that shows we're heading to a collapse of our society.
That's what I'm saying, that there is no reason for our "civilization" to be different from all the others...

And if you actually believe we'll reach the Singularity... Then you're just like a Christian believing in the return of Jesus, you're illogical so we can't really discuss ^^

Oh nice this film is really interesting,it shows one part of true western civilization is really failing this years.I like films like this and every other type of films especially horor movies.

Yeah but this one is much more frightening that something like saw  :D

I like saw :D but I am never scared because I watched that kind of movies when I was only 5-6 years so it is only funny for me nothing cant fright me I can only fright other person  ;D

I would use the word "horrifying" rather than "interesting". The death of the Western civilization is bad news. And it will be even worse, if it is replaced with a Caliphate which work as per the stone-age customs.

Not sure Caliphate will replace Western civilization.
I don't think the main enemy is the Muslim world, they're too weak. It's like the French (Gaulois, don't know the English word for that sorry), Romans focused on them for long but the real enemy was behind!

The film was like a horror movie to the western countries and that is if they believe that such conspiracy theories will become real and effect western civilization. As what I am always speaking western civilization will be more stable and continue to moved on since Trump has closed the borders for muslim immigrants and abolish abortion rights. If muslim immigrants will continue to enter America then sooner or later muslim population will flood america since muslims like to propagate while americans love to abort and control birth.

western civilization will surely come to an end one day, and it will happen in this generation. Outside the evolutionally proved in the video, there are biblical facts that proved the western civilization is about to come to an end. Like our Jesus Christ has said: Like in the days of Noah that is what will happen in this generation. I do ask myself what happened in the days of Noah: Corruption, hatred and religious perversion.

What the Muslim world lacks in technology, they makes up for that in manpower. As per the Islamic traditions, there are two types of Jihad. The first one is direct Jihad. In this, non-Muslims are raped and murdered, so that a part of the "infidels" accept Islam, others are reduced to slave labor and the remaining flee to other non-Muslim lands. Indirect Jihad is different. The followers will target vulnerable children of the infidels with drugs and alcohol, and simultaneously increase their population through demographic jihad. A perfect example is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

Sorry but your answer is reaaaaaaaaaaaally stupid :/

You're actually saying that Muslims are in fact organized in order to takeover our countries through immigration? ><

Immigration is a part of the tactic. Infidel nations will be converted to the Caliphate in three ways:

1. Immigration of Muslims to the infidel nation
2. Conversion of infidel women to Islam
3. Demograohic Jihad by the Muslim women

So yeah you're saying that Muslims are organized and actually making an "invasion"...

Sorry but could you explain us who is leading this brilliant strategy?

But I do Muslims resemble locusts. They crowd settled in all civilized countries and begin to impose their own rules. They do not work and just live on benefits and also children each year give birth.

It is given in their holy book. That is how we have more than 50 Muslim majority nations in the planet right now. This strategy is being repeated again and again since around AD 800, starting with Arabia and Iran. Europe is the latest target, along with India and Ethiopia.

Oh my god
If you REALLY believe that Muslims are an organised community actively working to take over the world through peaceful immigration...
Then I just don't know what to say xD

It's like if I'm saying that Jews are an organized community actively taking over the world through political and cultural invasion... You got no proof of the contrary and I got no proof that what I'm saying is true...

Why do you think that Muslims use only peaceful migration. They will not give up on terrorism. The strategy of peaceful migration, the Chinese are using. It seems to me that this strategy is more effective. In fact, the Chinese are a major threat, but no one sees and therefore, do not worry.

I'm not the one saying that.
And Muslim terrorism is, as I already said, just a very tiny small answer to the incredible aggressions we're committing to them.

The Chinese are not a threat, and therefore no one is bothered about them. I agree that a lot of these Chinese people are migrating to the Western nations, but they are assimilating well in to the native population.

While the subject of the end of civilization is very interesting the truth is there is not mystery at some point civilization is going to fall the same way all the other civilizations fell, we are not immune to it and we will never be no matter how advanced our technology is.

Pff it is coming soon.Now I see more and more faster black days for Europe I have less and less optimism because of situaction in my country.

And have you ever seen a European Empire? If you don't count Russia, but it's closer to Asia. Immigrant crisis destroys the unity of Europe, but it is not an Empire. I hope Merkel is smart enough to block access to these wild people.

Europeans need to rise up if they want to preserve their way of life, their culture, their identity. Unfortunately it seem decades of peace and stability has driven the instinct of self-preservation out of them. Like aggression has been bred out of them.


A bit more insidious, yes. Fear only make people resist you. Why be hated when you can be influential and yet live peacefully in the adoptive country? That has been the Chinese way for a long time, after all many just want a comfortable life rather than convert people to an ideology/religion.

Here in the Philippines the elites are descended either from large landholders during the Spanish era or from the Chinese that migrated in multiple waves. Unlike Malaysia we didn't adopt a Malay First policy so they're doing well here.

The challenge for them here is that those that flaunt they being Chinese are seen with some suspicion. Those that act like these tend to be more recent migrants, many of those that were here during the Hispanic period has assimilated quite well that they pretty much defined what being "Filipino" is. Still, there is still anti-Chinese sentiments here (fueled by territorial disputes). Some fear that in case of war, they would side with China.


Sadly yes, like some brief dream that you felt would be never-ending. Proof that "progress" is a fragile thing.

The Chinese are very hardworking, and they contribute a lot to the economy of their host nations. Look at the south-east Asian nations such as Singapore and Malaysia. Without the Chinese, these nations would be just some third world pothole.

I think the Chinese are the same as everyone else. Just due to the fact that they do not have a developed system of social protection of the population as in Europe, they are forced to work to survive.

I think the last great War to be fought before the end of the world will be against Islam and Islamic extremism, they always want to force their beliefs on everyone else and lots of country wont bulge, in my opinion. Western Civilization wont fall.

Of course, Western civilization will not fall! Now the world is going to abandon oil. Many Muslim countries are living only by the sale of oil and for them it is a problem. I think that on this basis there will be war.

I bet when we have other alternatives for Oil then they will not have money to fund wars and other terrorist acts that they have been sponsoring.

Do not argue or lose. They will long be able to Finance the attacks. Besides, oil is not only used as a source of energy. Almost the entire chemical industry uses oil and gas. But revenues from oil and gas will be reduced significantly.

If birth rates won't increase rapidly, Western civilization doomed to disappear. It is simply mathematics - fertility rate below replacement level (2.1 children per woman) guaranteed leads to extinction.
And never count on immigration! In Europe you can see how immigrants want to integrate into society and work!  ;D

But then, the Islamic nations have benefited enormously from the petro-dollar flows, during the last 50 years or so. They are sitting on top of enormous cash piles called sovereign wealth funds (SWFs), which are worth about $3 trillion right now.

I believe I read a book before about the Jews and the Chinese as "essential outsiders". Though they do contribute their part to their respective adoptive societies, I don't really see why the natives couldn't eventually learn stuff on their own. IMHO it's really all about idea flow. Ideas/technology eventually make their way across civs, even when said civ try to isolate themselves. I guess what the benefits from the Jews and Chinese really was was that they have a large diaspora. Innovations from one place can more quickly reach another because of their network.

The only thing that will save us from all the problems I see in this thread is technology. Free market capitalism is what has consistently allowed technology to blossom, and so long as we can keep it relatively unhindered, we will see a new golden era.

The big cities and their suburbs will get subdued by pushy beardmen, this process has been going on since first beard crawled out of the sandbox.

Rural areas though will remain free from the infestation politicians love to call progress since local cohesion is too strong and guerillawarfare is iminent when invading these lands.

Good places to be in Europe are the French Pyrenees in and the Black Forest in Germany.