The end of Western civilization

[mainpmf]

Hello people

I wanted to share with you an awesome, incredible documentary about the coming fall of the Western civilization.

It's called "The Four Horsemen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

I'm sure most of you won't take the time to watch it as it's 1h40 long but it's the best documentary on the subject I've ever seen.

The idea is that Empires have always the same evolution. And the documentary tries to show how the cycle of creation and destruction of empires are currently in place.
We're on the last phase, the one of decadence.
And we're fighting it exactly like empires have always done... By making war and closing our borders...
And it has never worked in the entire Human history :/

[Spendulus]

Hello people

I wanted to share with you an awesome, incredible documentary about the coming fall of the Western civilization.

It's called "The Four Horsemen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

I'm sure most of you won't take the time to watch it as it's 1h40 long but it's the best documentary on the subject I've ever seen.

The idea is that Empires have always the same evolution. And the documentary tries to show how the cycle of creation and destruction of empires are currently in place.
We're on the last phase, the one of decadence.
And we're fighting it exactly like empires have always done... By making war and closing our borders...
And it has never worked in the entire Human history :/

Now we have a short term Singularity, technological and otherwise.

Past history, bah.

[mainpmf]

Hello people

I wanted to share with you an awesome, incredible documentary about the coming fall of the Western civilization.

It's called "The Four Horsemen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

I'm sure most of you won't take the time to watch it as it's 1h40 long but it's the best documentary on the subject I've ever seen.

The idea is that Empires have always the same evolution. And the documentary tries to show how the cycle of creation and destruction of empires are currently in place.
We're on the last phase, the one of decadence.
And we're fighting it exactly like empires have always done... By making war and closing our borders...
And it has never worked in the entire Human history :/

Now we have a short term Singularity, technological and otherwise.

Past history, bah.

The reason why Humanity will always fail :/

Not taking account of the past is the first mistake of humans...
"this time it's different"
No
Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

[European Central Bank]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

[Spendulus]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

Economic singularity.

The end of fiat money (possibly)

The rise of AI

This time it's very, very different.

[European Central Bank]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

Economic singularity.

The end of fiat money (possibly)

The rise of AI

This time it's very, very different.

and that affects all civilisations, not just the western ones. we might be fine, we might be screwed. but the main thing that's different this time is that we're all in it together.

[Spendulus]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

Economic singularity.

The end of fiat money (possibly)

The rise of AI

This time it's very, very different.

and that affects all civilisations, not just the western ones. we might be fine, we might be screwed. but the main thing that's different this time is that we're all in it together.

Okay, let's expand on this a bit.  To understand, one would read .... what ?

Kurzweil, Singularity is Near

What else?

[dylanc]

Empires will rise and fall, but the growth of mankind is always on an upward trend.

[Xester]

Hello people

I wanted to share with you an awesome, incredible documentary about the coming fall of the Western civilization.

It's called "The Four Horsemen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

I'm sure most of you won't take the time to watch it as it's 1h40 long but it's the best documentary on the subject I've ever seen.

The idea is that Empires have always the same evolution. And the documentary tries to show how the cycle of creation and destruction of empires are currently in place.
We're on the last phase, the one of decadence.
And we're fighting it exactly like empires have always done... By making war and closing our borders...
And it has never worked in the entire Human history :/

The closing of borders doesnt mean that there will be a war coming and will destroy the Western Civilization. Destruction of Wetern Civilization is not going to happen just because of war but if Trump did not close the borders soon the immigrants culture will spread and will eat the culture and the government of the State. People from Islamic countries loves to propagate while westerners loves birth control. Time will come when the number of immigrants will be much more compare to the Americans then there will be a change of Administration. Immigration of muslims is not longer migration but a form of invasion.

[Fortify]

The west has probably done more than the rest of the world combined and tends to be very resourceful. China is getting much stronger and may start throwing their weight around much more. Besides having a lot of land and nuclear weapons, Russia is relatively weak with their economy. The only advantages of authoritarian government is forcing through infrastructure upgrades - but even this can backfire environmentally or cause people to overthrow them.

[helloeverybody]

The west has probably done more than the rest of the world combined and tends to be very resourceful. China is getting much stronger and may start throwing their weight around much more. Besides having a lot of land and nuclear weapons, Russia is relatively weak with their economy. The only advantages of authoritarian government is forcing through infrastructure upgrades - but even this can backfire environmentally or cause people to overthrow them.

As powerful as china is getting econimical wise its in their interest not to push their weight about. They export massive amounts of products worldwide and it would bevery risky to lose the billions of $ that flows into the country every year.

I never watched the documentary but the difference between then and now is we have a worldwide communications system so civilised nations can communicate instantly which means the chances of civilised societies letting each other dwindle out are pretty slim.

[Sithara007]

Empires will rise and fall, but the growth of mankind is always on an upward trend.

Not much sure about that. Earth is running out of space, and the basic natural resources are getting scarce. And in turn, this is causing an upswing in the incidence of major wars and confrontations.

[gabmen]

Hello people

I wanted to share with you an awesome, incredible documentary about the coming fall of the Western civilization.

It's called "The Four Horsemen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

I'm sure most of you won't take the time to watch it as it's 1h40 long but it's the best documentary on the subject I've ever seen.

The idea is that Empires have always the same evolution. And the documentary tries to show how the cycle of creation and destruction of empires are currently in place.
We're on the last phase, the one of decadence.
And we're fighting it exactly like empires have always done... By making war and closing our borders...
And it has never worked in the entire Human history :/

Well i didn't actually watch the entire link but its very interesting and i may finish it duting some idle time. Though i think it raised a valid point. With whats happening now, i think western hold globally may be dwindling a bit and powers from the east may be able to challenge that hold. But i think we're still far from seeing a change of power. Let's face it, as of now, america is still thr most powerful country and would most likely be like that in a couple of more years unless trump does something too foolish

[mainpmf]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high...

[Spendulus]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high...

No.  The current realities of world wide communications, economic interdependence and general raising up of living standards are a new thing in human history.   

We may be seeing a diminishing of the importance of the nation-state in the overall scheme of things; but this is not the same as a "decline of western civilization."

In fact, as these realities are the outgrowth of western civilization, perhaps it shows the emerging world dominion of western civilization.

[bryant.coleman]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high...  

Some of the new civilizations comes with economical and technological development. But some others are quite the opposite. There are a few examples. The first one is Afghanistan. This was Afghanistan during the 1970s:



And this is Afghanistan now:

[mainpmf]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high...

No.  The current realities of world wide communications, economic interdependence and general raising up of living standards are a new thing in human history.   

We may be seeing a diminishing of the importance of the nation-state in the overall scheme of things; but this is not the same as a "decline of western civilization."

In fact, as these realities are the outgrowth of western civilization, perhaps it shows the emerging world dominion of western civilization.

You don't understand... I'll try to say it with simple words.

Yes the current communication and economic interdependence and living standards are a new thing in human history.
When Egyptian Empire emerged, the use of pictural alphabet (don't know the exact word) was a new thing in human history and so were the economic interdependence of the different cities and the living standards of Egyptian citizens.
When Roman Empire emerged, the use of paper and alphabet in a whole Empire was a new thing in human history, and so were the economic interdependence of the provinces of the Empire and the living standards of Roman citizens.
When European culture and civilization emerged, printing was a new thing to human history, and so were the economic interdependence of the different countries and the living standards of... Ok not the living standards this time, actually I'm not sure a French citizen lived better than a Roman one, or at least I can't say it's a fact it would need some research.


What I try to say is that EVERYTIME we reach a new all time high in various domain, and EVERYTIME the "singularity" you're describing (and I'm well aware of the numerous theories at least concerning digital and AI singularities) isn't happening but on the contrary the Empire collapses.

[Hazir]

Empires will rise and fall, but the growth of mankind is always on an upward trend.

I am afraid that we survived so far only because we, as human species wasn't able destroy the world completely.
Current generation is always convinced that they are the most brightest people and the order of things they know will be forever.
From history we can confirm that this is huge cognitive bias and it is the reason we are, and will be plagued by economic crises.
Every civilization before was convinced that they will last forever, it never happened. I don't believe that technical singularity will help us with this.

[_nur]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high... 

Some of the new civilizations comes with economical and technological development. But some others are quite the opposite. There are a few examples. The first one is Afghanistan. This was Afghanistan during the 1970s:



And this is Afghanistan now:

those picture looks fake,like painting

[Spendulus]

Nothing has changed. Nothing is different...

what about the insane depth that the global economy is now entwined? what's bad for america is also bad for china. that's unprecedented at any other time in human history. while the peacocks are closing borders and blowing up brown people, everyone else is making money behind the scenes no matter where they are.

That's false :/
Simply because everytime a new civilization arises there is a new level of economical and technological development... Of course it's unprecedented, but everytime it's also a new all-time high...

No.  The current realities of world wide communications, economic interdependence and general raising up of living standards are a new thing in human history.   

We may be seeing a diminishing of the importance of the nation-state in the overall scheme of things; but this is not the same as a "decline of western civilization."

In fact, as these realities are the outgrowth of western civilization, perhaps it shows the emerging world dominion of western civilization.

You don't understand... I'll try to say it with simple words.

Yes the current communication and economic interdependence and living standards are a new thing in human history.
When Egyptian Empire emerged, the use of pictural alphabet (don't know the exact word) was a new thing in human history and so were the economic interdependence of the different cities and the living standards of Egyptian citizens.
When Roman Empire emerged, the use of paper and alphabet in a whole Empire was a new thing in human history, and so were the economic interdependence of the provinces of the Empire and the living standards of Roman citizens.
When European culture and civilization emerged, printing was a new thing to human history, and so were the economic interdependence of the different countries and the living standards of... Ok not the living standards this time, actually I'm not sure a French citizen lived better than a Roman one, or at least I can't say it's a fact it would need some research.


What I try to say is that EVERYTIME we reach a new all time high in various domain, and EVERYTIME the "singularity" you're describing (and I'm well aware of the numerous theories at least concerning digital and AI singularities) isn't happening but on the contrary the Empire collapses.

You mis state premises, then draw illogical overly broad conclusions, and then double down on wrong.   And no, you don't seem familiar with singularity.  Or having read of it, did not understand disruptive technologies.   Ref original paper by Vernon Vinge.

Let's simplify.

Collapse = percentage of houses world wide with air conditioning goes down
Anti-Collapse = percentage of houses world wide with air conditioning goes up

Enough said.