Bitcoin Forum

13-04-19 934 /index.php?topic=14085.msg1883478#msg1883478

16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd

1Gzcbs8dDYzf16qFWKHc5kWKuH8nji3pVt

13-04-19 934 /index.php?topic=14085.msg1883478#msg1883478
16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd
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1Gzcbs8dDYzf16qFWKHc5kWKuH8nji3pVt
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This is a great idea, I didn't even keep track when I got ripped off a couple weeks ago.

why?

Wasn't a list that I new of at that point... :p

urm..

How do you propose to trace coins through a shared wallet?

Single theft, two claims because 2 transactions were made. By the way the two lists of victim and thief should somehow be separated, as there can be multiple on either side.

How can you trace this if they go through a mixer?

you can't.

You can define the concept of clean and dirty coins.  Stolen coins are 100% dirty, freshly mined coins are 100% clean.  All the coins that go into a mixer add up to a total of clean and a total of dirty, and all the coins that come out have a known cleanliness.

The question is what to do with that information.

I will just leave this here...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

You can always trace everything. The question is "will anyone trace anything at any point in the future". If someone builds a "tracer"; meaning software that reverse indexes the blockchain so you immediately can get an answer to the question "was any of the coins I just received reported stolen by anyone at any point in the whole history of bitcoin" then immediately all stolen bitcoins become "worth less".

What are the odds that this will happen when bitcoin grows? I would say 100%.

There's nothing like the smell of a fresh block of coins! ;)

"you cannot steal bitcoins" -rupy

You will notice that the ones commenting negatively about this effort bought coins (without sourcing them); while the positive ones, mined theirs. It's greed against honor. I can also promise you that big investors already do this, you don't buy the pig in the bag.


Thanks!

Also what verification is there for anyone posting on this list?  Everyone of these "stolen" transactions could be made up themselves.  That's the nature of the currency.

I got 7.40599066 BTC stolen, due to unencrypted wallet +btc client outside the firewall.

Status: 10782 confirmations
Date: 4/1/2013 14:01
To: 149kuVmGKWUwsN8bvu4WTthc6mVwEB3A2E
Debit: -7.40599066 BTC
Net amount: -7.40599066 BTC
Transaction ID: ad30186ab82a59770ba6dbe891846f4dc2c31c61b0f8e72229180ecf146ef18f

there are legal precedents to this, now that the fincen guidelines accept this currency as money, the centuries old examples hold up in court.  Direct proceeds of crime are refutable but as long as a honest person accepts stolen money the bank that sources that issued the money must accept back the stolen money from them.

sorry, it's a legal thing, and it's also a personal choice, but a bank as a holder of money has to accept the coins, businesses do not, Bitcoin gives people that option to segregate the coins or atleast build a profound model of how stolen money flows through an economy. A feed back mechanism to crime, we don't accept stolen coins here, and anyone who funds or accept funds from known terrorists, criminals, or corrupt organizations will be black listed by the honest members of society.

Bitcoin creates a profound change in society, buy what you want, how you want it, when you want it, but it also creates a flipside, Individuals become their own law enforcement to the laws that they believe in, We accept coins from the people we want, how we want them, when we want them.

Fund the change you wish to see in the world and stop in it's tracks the change you don't.

Don't you think that's best left for 12 independent members of a Jury to decide?

gox ate 10 of my coins a couple weeks back... it was a very dark day

You are going to be compiling that list for while...  :-\

If mixers the way I think they do, you may be able to trace that the coins were stolen but it would be impossible from the blockchain to tie them to thief.

Here's my understanding:

Joe steals 10 coins from Betty, sending them to virgin address.
Joe then sends from virgin address to Mixer which accepts them in Wallet A
Mixer sends 9 coins back to Joe from Wallet B, which does not contain the stolen coins from Betty.

Wallet A coins get mixed up and sent around quite a bit before ending in Wallet B.

Thus Joe's 9 coins may have traceable dirty origins but they are not the stolen coins from Betty. And anyone trying to prosecute Joe would have trouble because it could be shown any of his dirty coins had lots of transactions after theft but before he got them.

So in that sense Joe can spend coins that can't be traced to his theft from Betty. At least not in the blockchain.

Is my understanding correct?

http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/12/theres-%C2%A360m-bitcoin-heist-going-down-right-now-and-you-can-watch-real-time (http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/12/theres-%C2%A360m-bitcoin-heist-going-down-right-now-and-you-can-watch-real-time)

The process of making bitcoins unstealable is beginning. Today the chase is being performed manually in the future it will be automated. Mixers only work if you have enough people willing to mix, those will decline sharply once the tainting of bitcoins is automated.

Spread the word! ;)

It is worth noting   that the list of stolen bitcoins is so nice short