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AntPool, the biggest BTC miner switch their Entire Pool to Bitcoin Unlimited :)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-13/bitcoin-miners-signal-revolt-in-push-to-fix-sluggish-blockchain

well, what's next?  ??? ::) :-X

According to Vinny Lingham, we might see below $800 price any time soon when the hard fork happens. That's what he said and we all know that 90% of his predictions were accurate.

Not good at all. This is not the news to read on a dreadful Monday. Brace yourself the price of btc shall take a setback. And now the community is going to be torn completely apart, whom do you support Bitcoin or bu. This is just not good, and if the currency spilts into two what good will it be for us. I guess the party is all but over, though he holds 15% of the total mining in block, what I would like to see is the rest 75% are they taking a stand or no. Or the price will crash faster than we will be able to know. Let's hope the currency doesn't spilt and the rest 75% stick with Bitcoins only.

Wasn't that about the ETF?

Segregated Witness also failing to gain support with litecoin miners, development community should come with an alternative, nobody gives a fuck about Segregated Witness and now we will see the network forking, great times to be alive. :D

if this is true, then we should be prepare from now on so if the price is below than $800, we are ready and we can buy at cheap price than now. but i wonder, when the hard fork is happens and how long the price will stay in below of $800? i hope that price is not take too long so we can see the price is back normal soon.

Why is everyone so sad about this??? Finally someone taking action instead of just waiting... BU might not be your preferred scaling method but at least we get one, no scaling method would be the worst right now IMO. I'll be interesting how other pools will react to this and if they'll follow or not   ::)

I hope this time his prediction about bitcoin price falls in his 10% average,bitcoin holders and traders are enjoying a very good atmosphere,even in this recent rejection,but we'll see in the coming days,all I know is when it falls a zoom in price is coming soon.

Actually we have fear about getting two parallel bitcoin blockchain just like ETH and ETC after DAO.
Split of network is not a good thing for any crypto, other alts may gain popularity if bitcoin network get split into two.  :(

There is an alternative - FlexTrans

so how it work now that the big pool is switching he is making the same coin or other coin that are basically an altcoin? can he sell those coin? can he exchange them for the same value as the known coins?

People are arguing that the adoption of Bitcoin Unlimited will split the Bitcoin community.  But those who have a strong opinion about the scaling method used are not only in favour of SegWit.  SegWit's adoption would also split Bitcoin to some extent, and if either is adopted it shows that a majority of miners were at least willing to compromise for the adoption or they were in support of it.

I think that some of the move to BU has been triggered by the need for 95% of mining power to support SegWit.  This is an unrealistic goal and I think the consistently moderate performance of SegWit for months and the fear that a solution will never be found is partially what has led to the increased adoption of BU with a lower required rate of 75%.

Probably nothing going to happen for some time. But if Core stance wont change, then more miners might join BU later this year. If Core wont hear the whole community by accepting a compromise with BU, then we going to see chain split for sure, probably this year. While I preffer compromise, the second best option is the split, and the worst option is continue with status quo and crippled Bitcoin.

Now that the price is recovering, Jihan Wu and Roger Ver will ruin the price again. Fucking idiots. All for nothing, since merchants and nodes will never support BU because it doesn't work. This is what happens when non-engineers don't know their place. Jihan Wu is an autistic mong that can only scale a mining business and Roger Ver is braindead when it comes to anything technical. Gavin CIA Andressen is supporting this too when he was saying it was a disaster years ago. Very sad.

The outcome is clear anyway, sell your BUcoins and wait for the price to recover as BUcoin becomes another marginal alt with clueless developers. Just another ETH/ETC event.

and you say that because....?

Who is Vinny Lingham? Where can I see his predictions?

The program output keeps telling me this:

Well, Litecoin activation is almost entirely dependent on f2pool, and it seems there is some speculation that f2pool could be related to Bitmain somehow, so it's not really a surprise it's languishing there.

He is the Bitcoin Oracle. :D

Here you go:

https://twitter.com/vinnylingham

https://medium.com/@vinnylingham

Bitcoin unlimited developers keep making mistakes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5z47f3/it_looks_like_chinabu_developers_forgot_to_add/

Nobody is going to take this seriously which is why all merchants support segwit:

https://bitcoincore.org/en/segwit_adoption/

and majority of nodes support Core:

https://coin.dance/nodes/share

It will be fun doubling my BTC for free.

I think so, instead of stay on this problem longer as we've been waiting for the rift be resolved. What will be happen next if bitcoin unlimited approved and implemented, whether is it will be fail or works, only time will tell.
However, community should backing the decision of consensus which seems a fair vote.

So, wait a minute....If this results in a bitcoin fork will my coin immediately double if I am using the Bitcoin Unlimited client when this happens? I know my ethereum holding's doubled....The ETH chain preserved it's value but the ETC chain, while still maintaining some value, dropped.  I sold my ETC immediately for ETH so I gained....But, what might happen here?  Should we be prepared by running both clients, just in case?

How long before f2pool switches to BU?

If a split occurs antpool and bitcoin unlimited will both die.

Antpool only processes transactions with high miner fees.

Which in turn, slows down transaction rates, nullifying any advantages that could be gained by a larger block size.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/something-odd-is-happening-at-bitcoins-largest-mining-pool-cm756139

Everyone will stick with bitcoin core, as the transaction fees will be far less.

Feel like the headline is a bit sensationalist  :(

if another big miner will follow Antpool, the "show" will come... :)

https://d1sui4xqepm0ps.cloudfront.net/categories/wut-meme
 
How you managed to make 5 or 6 logical errors in 4 sentences is baffling.

Needless to say, what one pool does doesn't dictate what the network as a whole will do.

Why should a coin die if a few miners keep mining it? Mining might even become profitable again.

I think both coins should and will coexist, hopefully in a peaceful manner.

Also just switch pools if you don't agree with them. :P

What one pool does, dictates (to a large degree) what the network as a whole will do, when said network(antpool) is one of the largest in the world and comprises a very large percentage of transactions.

Ok. Let's see your comeback to that, mr. "logical errors".

 8)

There is a market for transaction fees and I suppose a large pool does impact the market, so score one for you lol.  But it is still a market and the pool must compete for fees.

The real problem with high fees is artificial scarcity (small blocks) in terms of supply and demand in that market.  

Yeah Vinny makes closer prediction to the reality. In a recent article before the etf rejection quoted similar statements put forth by the SEC committee stating the disapproval of etf. So same as him several experts have predicted a downfall but bitcoin have surpassed those impacts. Even during the antpool getting potential price got lowered and soon started to increase, which is not the same as experts prediction.

BU is corpse anyway, nothing changed.  :P Antpool did what I suggested many times. Temporary join the corpse to make it reaches 51% and splits the fuck off forever. Then switch to true Bitcoin. Antpool is tired of waiting and decided to speed up the events.

It is not even half way (37.5%) from the required 75% blocks. It think BU will still need more miner support. However, comparing to Segwit activation (95%), BU is looking more promising...

What is this terrible thing when a lot of big miners choose BU, I think if it was the best way to solve the problem bitcoin why not :)

from what i've understood, there can only be one chain not two or three or whatever, every other chain which isn't the main chain will be n altcoin, if this new chain will have a value, that is another story

if they reach the needed % for their consensus, that chain will be the enw bitcoin, as the majority of miners will solve new block for that chain, and exchange and merchants will be forced to use that fork

but now that i think aout it what would happen if exchange and merchant will remain with the original chain?

NO, result of fork is not what you have in mind, result of split is what you are describing. and split is not going to happen easily.

and stop comparing bitcoin with Ethereum. ethereum is a shit-manupulation-coin the only reason why there are two of it remaining is that handful of whales owning 80+% of the coins are controlling everything. also there were 0 consensus in that fork so it resulted in split.

and i assure you, that your bitcoin value won't be doubled in case of split. it will be worth less actually. if bitcoin splits and both chains remain active you can consider your coins be worth $400 + $400 = $800 or less.
unless the split is majority on one chain (whichever  it is) and the minority be left with an orphan nobody accepts and by nobody i mean no exchange, no services,...

If HARD FORK happens BTC price will drop to even $200.
So, no your capital WILL NOT double.

Where do you pull those numbers from? It all depends on how the fork is executed and how both chains are going to co-exist.

If something like eth and etc happens, the total value will be much higher than the original value.

this is what an FUD looks like :D
they don't need reason nor logic. they just play with words or like him just spam some words out with some numbers in them. and when you read them over and over again everywhere you start thinking what if price really drops to $200 and that's when they succeed and you lose money because you fell for a trick.

and no you can not possibly tell what the total value would be in case something like etc/eth happens, it can crash the price pretty hard or it can be $1050 and $2

This is not a good thing, it is a one-sided and greedy idea. Because of their greed, they are making people suffer. Converted to antipool, this means bitcoin will be released indefinitely, and then the bitcoin value will be severely degraded. The miners are expressing their greedy nature, seeking to enrich themselves and not think about anyone else. We oppose this, I wish we all hold on. Say no to antipool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  >:( >:( >:(

Can you give me a prove? But if that will become true and i just curious to know when will the HF happen in the future. Just put my alarm to sell my bitcoin on the high price and waiting for the HF and buy back after the hardfork.

Look like we would see a fork either way in the near future and if things are not implemented properly it would be a disaster and i hope the core team will come up with a solution to settle everything and make everything right,Ant pool has a leverage as they are the biggest farm and hope the block limit problem will be resolved.

I say BU is ok after we have SegWit.

What Bitcoin really needs is LN, and for that SegWit is one of the most important prerequisites.
Miners do not want LN, because it weakens their position.  ::)

If they weren't fucking braindead, they knew that a weakened position in a trillion market is better than a strong position in a billion market.

Unfortunately, fucking braindead they are.


Rico

You can't put it any better, these miners are shortsighted looking to protect their present interest at the expense of future benefits. Can you imagine having or processing over 100 million transactions everyday the benefits it would bring to the space.

No. Only naive fools believed that ETF will be accepted so price decline of that magnitude just because ETG was denied was unlikely to happen.

SegWit unfortunately failed to grab people's trust. It is time to move on and work on another solution.
There is little time left, I doubt that core developers will be able manufacture another solution.

Whatever we might think of Bitcoin Unlimited, your scenario is detached from reality.
Even is case of emergency fork which happened to Ethereum we didn't see that catastrophic failure.

If antpool has switched to Bitcoin Unlimited then its just a matter of time when other miner pools will also shift to BU. It is clear now that in the end the consensus will favor Bitcoin Unlimited. Bitcoin Unlimited though I am not very clear of how it works but as long as it can give solution to the current problems on transaction fees and long confirmation then it is god to go. Even if bitcoin unlimited will win the price of bitcoin will not climb down as what some of us are thinking. When the miners fee goes down and the transaction confirmation become faster the price of bitcoin will start climbing again.

Ya, 25 GB added to the block chain every day would do wonders for Bitcoin! Extremely beneficial for decentralization (you know, the very thing that gives Bitcoin value).

Edit: Reading comprehension issues. I blame lack of sleep!

if off chain scaling is used, where does all that transaction data go? 

[ ] You understood the context he was writing in. (Hint: LN)


Rico

For starters, Bitcoin isn't valuable because of TPS, it's valuable because of the unique properties decentralization provides.

Next, if scaling is done off chain, then the "scaled" transaction data is... wait for it... off chain. They are aggregated on an additional layer which can be removed should the need arise.

Yep, my mistake.

Unfortunately these are the worst news I could listen. Personally speaking, I do not care so much about the price as the future of the currency because people give value to bitcoin and not miners. I wonder under what logic Jihan Wu went into this decision. Obviously, if the price collapses money will be losen not only by the users but also from miners too because their operating costs are constant. Therefore, Jihan is very risky and played "all in" or is too sure that segwit supporters will not have time to react and finally will accept his movement. In addition, the publication of UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1805060.0) played a significant role to antpool's decision.

What are the chances they (BU) actually get to the 60%-70% that's required to activate?

Yes, Antpool is a huge player in the game. Outside of them though, I don't see many big names supporting Unlimited. Miners, exchanges, nodes,..really anyone outside of a selectly small group of people.

I would disagree that TPS doesn't make Bitcoin valuable because high TPS = widespread use, which one of the key characteristsics (in addition to fungibilitiy, portability, etc) that make something valuable as money. Iow, its 'utility'.  But we can agree to disagree on that if you like.

I was hoping you can tell me more about the off chain solutions since you seem to know something.   I guess my question would be:  If its stored somewhere off chain, who is storing it, who is securing it, and if its not miners, isn't that a trusted third party, which is a form of centralization?

Here is one article on LN:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-building-a-bidirectional-payment-channel-1464710791/

Might be useful to open a channel for small payments. I wouldn't want all my bitcoin held on a channel, so more on-chain block capacity is required.

I'd hate to be a LN coder. The consequences of a bug could be horrendous.

I would say the reason Bitcoin has value is because it offers something that other solutions don't offer. In my mind, that's censorship-proof transactions and a seize-proof store of value. We have these things thanks to decentralization. It's not simply "utility", it's unique utility. Sure, we can each have our opinion about this, but that is probably going to frame the entire debate.


Sorry, you'll have to look elsewhere. I've never researched those things because I don't care. Every transaction does not need to be censorship-proof as long as the option exists. I'm willing to pay handsomely and wait a long time to append the block chain because I place a very high value on the properties decentralization affords. That's why I would rather err on the side of decentralization, even if it harms adoption. If people want cheap micro-transactions, and that can be arranged by adding a layer on top of Bitcoin that can be removed should the need arise, who am I to complain, and why should I care if those "coffee" purchases aren't censorship-proof?

Life is about trade-offs. Everything can't be all things to everyone! Imagining that we can have censorship-proof micro-transactions for sub-pennies with a system that requires full nodes to maintain a ledger which must record every transaction since it's creation is absurd to me!

See the bolded part above.  This is what concerns me (and others) when it comes to the scaling debate.  When we, for example, restrict the transaction throughput, the option to be censorship proof  may no longer exist at a reasonable price.

 

If BU can successfully fork and becomes the majority I will sell my cloud mining shares and exit from hashnest.

Well, as I said, I'm ready to err on the side of decentralization (as I perceive it). So, I can only argue from that point of view. I'd say we are no-where-close to going beyond a reasonable price yet you have people crying bloody murder!

The early block subsidy has, in my opinion, spoiled a lot of users. They are used to not having to pay for security because the inflation did it for them. Well... the coins had to be dispersed somehow, and now it's time to start moving away from the block subsidy to a direct cost to the user. If we wait longer, we will just have a larger group of people ready to cry bloody murder and it will be even more painful.

It's nowhere near time to start thinking about fees as the only block reward... that's just an excuse for bitcoin not scaling :P.  It's still more than 100 years until miners fully rely on tx fees, but for the sake of argument, let's say the block reward would only be fees right now. Bitcoin could probably scale up to 2MB blocks tomorrow and the fees would drop by, maybe, 20%?. Because blocks would instantly be full again, this means more money for the miners, lower fees and faster confirmation times for the users and more adoption of the bitcoin network -> higher price... Worth it IMO.

Well, when Ethereum forked, the exchanges supported both chains in the fork.  So, those who were prepared had the opportunity to dump the lesser supported chain and double their holdings....There was only a brief window in which profit could be maximized because the non-sanctioned chain quickly lost value...Where there is a possibility of profiting off of a situation, there will be people committing extra brain cells to the task  <--- Believe that!

it's 75% i think, and no other pool is viewwing bitcoin unlimited as a right choice, so chance are very slim man, but what will happen if bitcoin unlimited will be successful is what matter, i hope they don't screw bitcoin with this mess they are doing

i think it is a matter of time until other huge miner will switch to BU

I propose a new Bitcoin fork, BitcoinInfinite. It expands on the excellent work of the BitcoinUnlimited developers.

• No block size limits. Miners always know what's best.
• No block reward limit. Miners know what's best, so we should let them choose how much they reward themselves when they find a block. Don't let the Blockstream Core developers chain you down!
• No difficulty retargets. The 10 minute block time imposed on us by the awful Blockstream Core developers are stupid, let the miners choose.

I am looking for developers to assist me with the development of BitcoinInfinite. Please PM me if you are able to code, it would be great if you knew how to add assertions triggered by untrusted remote inputs.

#MakeBitcoinInfiniteAgain, this is what Satoshi would have wanted!

Don't use /dev/random for your seeds - you can run out of entropy !!!!

Use /dev/null instead.

This won't change much, they need 70%,  which means they still have a long way to go and in the meantime another better solution may be proposed.
Don't forget there's still a strong opposition to BU. One thing is certain, if the fork happens you will all be able to get some cheap coins, because the price will take a huge hit.

Indeed it is still a long way to go, but a lot could still happen and there might be a chance that the next biggest mining pool joins the band wagon and we all end up with that hard fork. Prices will really go down, but yeah the plus side is that you get to buy cheap coins, so everybody keep your wallets ready!

Thank you for the suggestion. Would you like to be the chief scientist at the BitcoinInfinite Foundation?

It appears that others are starting to move on the direction that they see fit with the current situation of Bitcoin now. Whether it'd be SegWit or BU, one thing is sure to happen and we should be prepared for it. Price of BTC will get hit by these changes and would drop into a 700-900 dollars zone. That's a conservative prediction and depends on the acceptance of the people. At least, someone's breaking the status quo that we have right now. We should move forward and tackle this problem head on if we wanted our beloved Bitcoin to survive.

What's the best online wallet to have when the Hard Fork happens? Blockchain? Trezor?

No wonder why Dash and ETH is getting pumped hard. It seems like investors are flipping bitcoin to altcoins after foreseeing the chances for heavy correction . I wonder how things will be going forward, would love to see bitcoin above $1000 mark whatever happens, fork or no fork.

In case of a hard fork I think it would be better to go with Blockchain wallet than Trezor. Any other opinion guys?

No wonder why Dash and ETH is getting pumped hard. It seems like investors are flipping bitcoin to altcoins after foreseeing the chances for heavy correction . I wonder how things will be going forward, would love to see bitcoin above $1000 mark whatever happens, fork or no fork.

In case of a hard fork I think it would be better to go with Blockchain wallet than Trezor. Any other opinion guys?

BU has around of 40% now....so...it's not so much. Another big miner and i think it's done.

Of last 1000 I see 33% of blocks, not 40%. I would like to se 40% - that would mean halfway there.

They won't activate until 75% for a difficulty period which is 2016 blocks so one has to look at a bigger picture than just last day or whatever is being used for the 40% count.

it was less than 20% few months ago... :)

Antpool appears to have only moved some of it's servers to Unlimited

https://coin.dance/blocks

Shows plenty of Antpool blocks not signalling anything.

I don't think the worst option is to maintain the status quo, compromise would be better and then compromise, if there is a hard fork the price of bitcoin will plummet overnight, so it is not good for the users and the investors.

That's the thing though, if we look at the prices, we can see that investors aren't going from BTC to ETH/DASH, because BTC's price isn't dropping. This makes me think that it's new money from new people, that are new to the crytpo scene that's going into ETH/DASH. Either way the higher the market cap of all crypto's the better IMO  :P

Investors may not be -- but people that actually want to move money around might be who are dissuaded from Bitcoin's congestion and high fees...  please don't convince yourself this isn't bad.

It isn't bad if Bitcoin isn't the only crypto you're invested in  :P If it is, yeah... that's bad... and you need to do something. Don't lay all your eggs in one basket  :), that also means you should have some money that's somewhere else than in crypto too.

are they switching back now that bitcoin unlimited is show to ahve that bug and to be an unreliable chain? or they are still mining there, and if yes how are they selling their bitcoin mined there there are no merchants for BU yet

There is difference between split and hard fork. For sucessfull hard fork producting no split, there need to be compromises most agree to. But if Core dont want to talk to whole community and provide compromised proposal including the necessary onchain size increase together with malleability fix, then others have to do it instead. There is no takeover at all, just free market at work - when Core dont deliver what market wants, other going to deliver sonner or later. Thats the reason BU is on the rise.



Only Chinese servers switched to BU so far, so about half of Antpool blocks are producted with BU. And BU blocks mined with BU are 100% compatible with Bitcoin - maybe you have some Bitcoins from BU blocks subsidy as well ;)

the most important thing is that AntPool, the biggest BTC miner is switching to Bitcoin Unlimited... the rest of the things, do not matter :)

I do not like this situation at all. The price of bitcoin fell only on the news of the event, which may not happen. I think that the split will bring all the big losses. I do not want it(
I now do not know whether I will keep the bitcoins

the other miners will follow them. as we can see, the biggest exchangers want a change too.