Bitcoin Forum

http://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#btc-percentage

Sad for all those people who moved their Bitcoin into Altcoin ;)

how do you figure

market cap is a meaningless number

i can create an alt tomorrow with 5trill coins.. get just 1 coin on an exchange and sell it to myself for $1.. and instantly my alt is market capped at $5trillion...

there are NOT $25billion fiat sitting around in bank accounts ear-marked to back the entire cryptocoin market.

anyone can make the market cap spiral up to trillions just by using small numbers.

Not for all the scammers sitting on / selling their pre minted crap.

>Implying that market cap is anything other than a number based on the current trading price for a crypto

While market cap is a decent indicator of the total value of the system, most of the time it is completely meaningless to compare what the market caps of things are. Bitcoin still has more than 3x the market cap of the next largest crypto, and that has been experiencing some impressive growth recently.

The second and third top market-cap cryptos make up only 1/3 of the biggest, and the fourth through nearly the rest of them makes up another third. The top 2 and 3 are concerning, but you also look at the rest of the market and see a ton of shitcoins that take up space and money.

Realistically, Bitcoin probably makes up more like 75% of all cryptos that are actually used.

I wonder where the altcoin market increase went.

Doesn't look like dash, ethereum nor any alt coin prices shifted.

Is it sustaining a massive sell off of alt coins?



Exacta.

Could be a good time to short dash, eth, whatever alts are selling at high volume.

 Gut feeling.


 How did you figure?

Yes....That's an accurate observation.  In cases such as the one you described, the volume of trade needs to be factored into the speculation when considering marketcap. However, wise traders pay attention to volume.  If you look more closely, you will find that some of the alts have huge volumes, and according to the charts, those which do have large volumes of trade are on the top, right?

Its not entirely meaningless.  It may not be entirely accurate, buts not stick our heads in the sand.
Every day, ethereum is gaining users, and Bitcoin is losing too many because our network cant scale
and is losing utility.

Hahaha there always has to be an opposition or else what's the point of life!? How do you figure that!?

---

70% is still a vast majority. I'm surprised after all of this time it's still that high. Bitcoins obviously did a lot right but to take back over and be at 85 or 90% of the total cash value within cryptocurrency we'll need this whole blocksize debate to be over and done with.

Meh. Not real users. Rage quitters, traders, hedgers, gamers. They ll come back because of the real scarcity.
The potential higher velocity of ETH is bad for the monetary value. But even this can collapse once ETH scaling is reached as well..

Are Bitcoiners not for "free markets" and "competition"?

Well, so don't be hypocrite. You will only get a monopoly when you exercise totalitarian coercion.

Yep, competition inspires innovation and that's what we're witnessing in the altcoin community.  Competition is good for the crypocurrency space.  It's specifically easier for the altcoins to be innovative than it is for bitcoin because of the marketcaps.  It's riskier to get creative with bitcoin than it is with the altcoins because there is more to lose in the bitcoin network.  The community needs to start taking notice of some of the solutions being implemented in the altcoins instead of being stubborn. The altcoins are an asset and the bitcoin community can take advantage of their creative solutions.

I hope you're right, but no harm in staying vigilant here --- this is no time to rest on our laurels.

Yeah and they will come back regretting it.
They will have to pay more than what they have sold and could make them rage more.  ;D
There will always be new buyers.
Looking back at the chart. Try to browse up. Look how high all altcoin market cap is. That website sure makes a good lie.

It depends on whether or not you are a speculator. If you are not a speculator, then it really doesn't matter. If you are a speculator, then you really don't matter.  >:(

I wonder if dash and ethereum are truly gaining users.

Or early miners of alts are selling coins to themselves to artificially pump the price of eth/dsh.

So they can unload on some poor saps later & profit. Pump/Dump.

If the above is true, the price of dsh/eth should decline once those artificially pumping the price are gone.

I'm a relatively small Bitcoin investor but I also actually pay my employees in Bitcoin.  It saves me thousands of dollars a year vs Paypal.  The recent network congestion was a firsthand exposure of the dangers of failing utility as transactions started getting stuck and fees became dangerously uncompetitive.

Wait until the panic when BTU is forking, everyone is fleeing BTC and buying ETH, then the real bubble of 2017 starts...
Its not BTC this time, just wait...
BTC loses dominance to ETH.

until you take away the bot trading by 2 people every few seconds
10btc traded by 2 bots can equal thousands of "volume" a day just playing tennis with 10btc back and forth

yep 100k volume does not mean 10,000 separate coins were bought or sold.
it means maybe
10btc played tennis back and forth 1000 times

meaning even volume doesnt represent real transaction desires, or even show how much actual different coins changed hands

Yeah, but it's okay.  Some of the altcoin prices rises are just manipulation (like DASH) and while Ethereum is very popular, it's not going to get close to Bitcoin with its centralised team and the annoyance of many Bitcoiners about shitcoins.  Ethereum's nearing its peak, and I don't care if loads of different altcoins all have tiny market caps, because if 100 coins had 0.5% each of Bitcoin's market cap it would mean nothing to Bitcoin's actual dominance.  The only thing that's scaring people is the possibility of a real competitor like Ethereum, but with a lot less real adoption I don't think it has much further to go.

"Never underestimate your opponent" - Sun Tzu

yeah it went in dash and ethereum, and a bit over many other alt, just look at their market rate, it's way higher now, at least 30% cap of bitcoin now


this is true, but the bitcoin real marketcap, based on how many coins where actually traded, and not on simple math, is still high enough, there is a way to calculate this number maybe?

Yes,70% is still not bad.Bitcoin price is recovering again.Now the scene will change and the alts would start bleeding.Running race will begin from altcoins to Bitcoins.Whoever comes first will get bitcoin below $1000 and the latecomers would have to pay $1200 or $1300.

Bitcoin will raise its value only with the growth of its popularity. If users help raise demand for crypto currency, then bitcoin prices will go up. The main thing is not to panic when racing on stock exchanges prices. It always happens, that's just all react differently to this.

saves me rewriting...

Yeah, they are fucking rueful.

Is market cap not the Current value of bitcoins in circulation  X  Current price of bitcoins???
Is it just "Volume" that you are saying??? Because if these numbers are baseless, then what is the base that should be used to calculate the actual worth of Bitcoins' cap???

Exactly! However we'll see what will these people that are migrating to ETH will do when they saw that bitcoin is getting back up again with loads and ready to climb up again to the uphill.


Just like what I'm saying, they will regret what they did but as long as btc's price is still low they can still had chance to come back again.

BTC losing market cap dominance doesn't mean anything, nor would it if it lost its position as "first" in the market cap listings.

Yeah this is just sad but all this thing will help bitcoins price to rise up this price drop is just normal and it is a part of coming pump on price

What do you expect, Bitcoin losing its MarketCap automatically altcoin will gain it.  That is just in an equilibrium.  Anyway, I agree that we shouldn't look at the market cap and worries.  Even franky1 said is true, they are all estimation, not an actual fund in its market :)

Well it was to be expected. Alt's have been years in the market now, grown up and become steady projects.
No project can compete with BTC's adoption however.

But without a solution/consensus nor innovation in the bitcoin protocol this won't be forever.

...and the longer we wait, the more risk we assume.

Make it clear. The ongoing price deflection felt on Bitcoin is just a impact generated due to the forking and the iniation to the splitting of chain. We may experience ETH may grow parallel to bitcoin, but this could never become a dominance of ETH over bitcoin. A panic situation might arise due to the price change.

...because ______________ ?

the answer is simple there is no actual "worth" of bitcoins by measuring the cap vs price...

simply you dont base bitcoins infrastructure and economy on the market cap.
i can make an alt tomorrow with 5trill coins. put just 1 coin on an exchange and sell it to myself for $1.. and suddenly my alt has a $5trillion market cap, all for the cost to myself of 1cent(1% exchange fee of the $1 trade)

you base bitcoins "value" on its UTILITY
but that involves not using stupid todler level maths. but actually look at the bigger things like monetary value of combined asics. the real audited worth of companies actively in bitcoin and other things.
but thats too complex for some people to understand/measure

Hence it really is using utility for employers like you who found a haven in bitcoin for avoiding those fees imposed by Paypal and the likes. Until we can come up with a solid solution as to how we're going to fix this problem, that is the time we can, at the least try to chill out.


I agree. Bitcoin's value is not measured by the dollars / coin, it's actually more than that. What keeps it afloat is the millions of dollars companies spent to mine these coins in the first place.

Basically up and down altcoin or familiar bitcoin in trading, that I have seen to this day there is a price increase on a bitcoin. I am sure bitcoin must have gone up again, it is now is a good time to buy (that if you) because if seeing history bitcoin from first launched until now the price rises continue to

What do you think everybodys been doing all this time when the signal of eth showing to push sudden past 35% in a day.
Those kind of days what else is one to do while watching all these #2 and #3 right behind the top dog are increasing their pace like a dog chasing a car's bumper?
They don't know they'll never catch up to that car and get to chew that bumper unless it gets a flat. :D

[1] Tech reasons and lack of consensus dev now and the implications for the future

[2] People want to get more, eg 1btc in eth launch is now circa, $100K or 100 BTC, does BTC offer this over the same time frame? So people will continue to buy in to ICO's thus sort of becoming a self fulfilling prophecy

[3] Eth and Dash mayface issues of succession, once ED or VB leaves moves on or whatever, then they will fall into inter-cine deleterious warfare over various tech and other issues, much as BTC has now, so in someways BTC is goingi through this phase much much earlier

[4] The trend is clear, and never faultered only down, you have to diversify in to alts or loose value, and as a hedge against BTC.

Since bitcoins price is decreasing many have panicked and sell their bitcoins in exchange for dollars and some for  Ethereum and DASH. But it was not limited only to bitcoins but other altcoins were also affected including monero whose value drops as bitcoins price drops. This is a sign that if bitcoin will go down all of the crytpcurrency world will go down.

Sure it does it what makes news and influences decisions and spend

Recently, there has been so much trouble with bitcoin. The bitcoin market is volatile and tends to deteriorate. The hardfork is being oriented and will proceed in the near future, presently bitcoin is branching, and the separation will definitely occur with bitcoin. Although every trading platform sees the BTU as an altcoin, there are still a lot of people hoping for it, which makes things worse, market turbulence and the value of bitcoin decline dramatically.

actually those people are quite happy i'd imagine, they made a lot of money.

How did you know about it? Well if that so, its their choice to moved their bitcoin into altcoin. But in my case no problem, since i bitcoin is very progressive and famous currency in the market, then i'll stick to one on it no matter what, it don't really matter for me the value or price of bitcoin (if high or low) as long as im enjoying, happy using it, bitcoin is a trustworthy one and can give me freedom in some many like making some transactions.

This is the best response to the question, I can see some people borrowing BTC at 0.25% per day to pump some Altcoins, this can only end one way for them because they can't sustain the price

Looks like dash is crashing.

1/2 on my calls.

http://i68.tinypic.com/oro3o8.jpg

(Wonder if eth will do the same.)

This game is almost too easy sometimes.

every gets excited about ethers and then the reality of the high inflation and a a possible extended bear market sets in as there's simply not enough buyers to keep up with supply. 

There goes ETH.

http://i65.tinypic.com/280m6av.jpg

2 for 2 on my calls. Maybe I should get back into trading.

Its not that hard to tell when someone is conning people into buying their overpriced junk coins & the price will decrease as a result.

Overhyping failed ventures & artificially pumping price to unload troubled assets on an unsuspecting public is an extremely common profiteering tactic in the investment world.

Even banks like goldman sachs screw over entire countries like greece using the very same methods.

The sad thing will be when the pumpsters withdraw their investment in Alt coins like Ethereum & Dash and the sheep are left over with the empty bags. A lot of speculators are spreading FUD about Bitcoin in the hope that people would run to Alt coins and they were fairly successful so far, but this will come down hard very soon. ^sad^

Big hope = Big tears

So what altcoin price increase ETH dash steem?
Choosing altcoin rather than bitcoin that is true sadness.

this is partially true, there is no way to figure the exact amount of the money sitting in all the exchange, maybe they are not 16B like the bitcoin marketcap, but they are not only millions either

last time i've checked all exchange combined are sitting on a large amount of bitcoin, more than millions in number, so the real marketcap is not so far away from the one reported in coinmarketcap

The true sadness is to not just increase the block size and end all that drama ... At least those alts, and I'm not only talking about Dash, are trying to offer something better : governance, fast transaction, anonymity ...

Agree 100%, market cap is a meaningless number.
Its good that altcoins exist, its like beta tests for possible new features in bitcoin.

That was a bit of a panic run, technically we still base on Bitcoin prices so the diversification has stabilized for now.
As long as the sales pitch is don't worry we wont blow up else our lingua franca is in flux and it becomes we have to change the coin we base other coins upon.

(That said owning a bit of each currency is a good hedge)
As long as poloniex doesn't run with the coins or whatever online exchange your using since syncing .... 30 or so wallets and blockchains to your PC is hellish.

But some people still consider to buy alts from its marketplace so it's not obvious.

That's a great call! Yes, ETH and DASH prices was running mad and it is time for some correction. What do you think the support levels for ETH and DASH would be to close the shorts and to go long. What are the chances for DASH to fall below $60 ? I think ETH can correct to 40 or $35 levels and stabilize imo.

Next day ETH is bumping up against its all time high USD.  Dash is a very different coin, way too high though. ETH has a long ways to go...

Its not sad, it just means that there's more coins out there now.

It is completely flawed logic. Marketcap matters in congruence with market Volume. If the average holder can get their buy/sell orders filled at the asking price you have a real market. Furthermore, the average user should be able to sell all their holding without moving the market much if at all. Good luck selling 5 trillion coins at $1 a piece. There are many shitcoins out there where whales have socked away most of the coins and then conduct pump and dumps. In that case, I do agree, paying attention to marketcap would be unwise.

In my opinion (everyone is entitled to his without solicitation, and that's acceptable as long as the opinion is not complete junk)...
1. The reason why people are buying Dash and Ethereum is not because Dash and Ethereum are better than Bitcoin, but because their prices are rallying. If the prices are not rallying, who would care if Dash and Ethereum are better (no, they are not). To say that Dash and Ethereum are better because of so and so is just finding justifications for buying into them.
2. The destiny/future/outcome of Bitcoin depends very much on the Powers That Be, specifically what the VC that invests $75 mil in Blockstream, wants for Bitcoin. Function as currency? Function as payment layer? I believe even if Bitcoin ultimately functions as just a payment layer, its investment prospect remain extremely large. Considering the fact that Core developers said transaction fee of $100 can be possible, this statement we can put into perspective on what the future value of Bitcoin could be. If transaction fee is fixed at 20,000 satoshis and this is equivalent to $100 (or maybe $50), then what may be the price of 1 Bitcoin in the future? $500,000 (or $250,000 for $50 fee)? This could be possible simply because if the price of Bitcoin does not follow the transaction fee, then NOBODY would use Bitcoin and the transaction fee of $100 would not even materialize. For it to materialize the price of Bitcoin will need to be at astronomical level for the whole thing to be commercially viable.

$100 fee? quite dubious.  who would pay $100 when there's so much competition that is orders of magnitude cheaper?

Yeah, a lot of people have moved their wealth into altcoins recently which is really quite saddening to see as a bitcoin believer.

However, i am actually thinking of doing the same myself because I cannot cop the suspense of the price. I don't have that many bitcoins but i do have a little at least that i care about, as it is still hard earned money.

I'm going to probably try buying a few Ethereum just to hedge against the fork.

But anything that is 70% or less for bitcoin dominance, means something is wrong.

It is not yet the end, I'm still and will always be a bitcoin believer. That is just for now and I know it will recover again. Don't be sad because sometimes it really happens. Just have faith on it, those user who are shifting will go back to BTC.