Bitcoin Forum

Being a very active gambler i was usually pretty satisfied with btc. The stakes are higher then other sportsbook sites and i like the fact that i don't need any personal information. Well this all changed during recent events with the so called mempool. Just to make this clear, i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work.

The problem with this is i play on various sites and most of the time i make last minute bets on games in different sports and the transactions have to be almost instant and be confirmed before the bets are being payed out to me again.

Most sites credit the btc after just 1 confirmation which by the looks of it is going to take hours again with almost 45.000 waiting transactions in the mempool. It happened before and it's happening again and it's time for me to say goodbye to bitcoin.

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

Pay a better transaction fee, get faster confirmation. Problem solved.

Which in turn costs more then other traditional methods. Paying almost or even more then 10% of the amount being sent is ridiculous.
For large payments this is no issue. But for normal small payments it just doesn't make sense. Not when your making 20-50 transactions daily.

The users want fast confirmations and low fees.  Blockstream controlled Core devs don't care what you want.  They're going to scale Bitcoin according to their own roadmap, and if you don't like, tough shit.

Any questions?

Lol... The solution couldn't have come any faster than what you have given. Its just so simple if you say you want to leave bitcoin because of this issue you have raised, I bet you are still coming back because when you consider the revenue you will be losing if you had stayed, that will be the driving force back into the game and other advantages it has offered that will even overshadowed the cost which is the transaction fee ypou have quoted here...

seems one person here lol
maybe not ^^^

Depends on how you look at it. If i am unable to make fast bets i'm not earning at all. Like i said i'm not that tech savvy with btc. I just have a localbitcoins account to be able to buy and sell fast when needed. Without having the risk to lose more money with the btc price going down. Yes it can go up, but i'm not here to gamble on btc, i'm here to gamble on games.

It looks like it is only going to get worse. Transaction fees are increasing, confirmation times are increasing, market cap is decreasing.  It looks bad. All the virtues admired most about the platform are all suffering. I myself am looking into alternative platforms as well. Bitcoin has become antiquated and saturated with greedy holders who don't appreciate its utility. The community needs something that works, not a bed of Tulips!

Exactly. I mean wasn't the whole point of bitcoin to get rid of those money grabbing bankers. To be safer, faster and cheaper. The way it's going it will only be worse. At his point we are stuck with even wore people nobody knows who thy even are.
Once every week, month whatever they are able to get the fee price up and earn more in the process.

there are days that network is fast, and there are days that is slow
but today VERY slow,... how come?

You can solve easily with the correct size fee that is not related the amount you spend but is related to size of transaction.

for example if you spend more input (2>) for make one transaction you create a "bigger" transaction.
56.45 sat/B - 372 bytes - 2017-03-27 12:29:00
0 confirmation

but if you spend just 1 input for your transaction with the right kb/size you don't have this issue.
92.92 sat/B - 226 bytes - 2017-03-27 11:43:39
38 confirmation

Check here or for example the right size for a tx or google by yourself because it's full of sites ;) about this.
bitcoinfees.info

I just checked this and i foun one site that said it is recommended to add a 0.0008 for normal confirmations. This comes down to around $0,80 per transaction. This means that for small payments this is a ridiculous fee that even tops Gaypal.

Each and everyone of us was attracted to Bitcoin by one or two of its unique attributes like low fees, instant transaction and above all a departure from the centralized approach to issues. Now all that is headed for the museum and that's not just a lone voice, these jinxs are suffocating Bitcoin though, I honestly do not see how the breakaway cartel of miners could proffer solutions for all that.

Yup. Super sluggish today. I don't know why. This happens on occasion.

But if I were a fast moving gambler there's no way I'd be relying on Bitcoin transactions to be in the right place at the right time regardless of how well the network's running. Even when things are fine you might find blocks are still a few minutes late.

It's not Paypal ticking a box in their database, it's a seething mass of computing all over the world. That will never be the last word in fast and immediately guaranteed transactions.

Yes but bitcoin as decentralized coin have its limits storage/network/cpu power. Its easy to call increase 1MB/2MB/3MB/100MB.
To increase BTC size to needed lvl of Visa we need datacenters.
Visa with 2000tx/s have is equal 1000MB blocks and 370 TB year
Do you really believe that full decentralized network can handle that ?
Where big blockers will stop at 1MB ? 2MB ? 20MB ? 200MB ?
This is dead end solution. To go over it you need to cut off blockchain technology from BTC and run something like decentralized speed-sheet with account values.

Those question are to easy but no matter what you want everywhere are problems.
People today hype ETH but in reality same problems with blocksize will go to them.
today so cheap ETH cost :D 0.05-0.1$ per tranfer... when BTC and ETH will have same market cap price will be THE SAME
if they lower it their clockchain will grow 10x faster.
And ETH apps will soon face... much HIGHER cost of running business yea.
And we are with ETH in same loop as BTC unless we get rid of blockchain :D

It's actually very simple, it's well known that transactions can take a while to confirm, even with appropriate fees added. If you want to place last minute bets, you should either make sure you have a certain amount of coins already in your account, or you just need to shift to a fiat based online casino. It's all up to you. By complaining here you don't solve anything.

That is why for small dust transactions we need 2nd layers solution to not divide main network.
It is impossible to run everything on main chain. Bitcoin got to popular. Eth have 1/3 transactions but they network is heavily rissing.
It will choke or blow up nodes hard disks.

FTFY!

Where is your blocksize limit at 2MB/20MB/200MB/2000MB ?
Visa has 2000TX/s so to be like Visa you need blockchain of size 1000MB / 370 TB of year.
How many independet nodes will you setup to play with that settings ?

OK we go and we have such blocks ... 1000MB blocks now we have 20 data centers - goverments thinks that will be great to have BTC as world currency but they will modyfy code so they can add as much BTC as they needed.
THey go with guns to datacenters / mining centers and force them to rund goverment fork .
THE END of true BTC. BTC ended like centralized Visa SHIT that have to obey all goverments rules.
More decentralized BTC is the harded is to hit it 1MB goes in both directions.
1-2MB is good protection against governments and centralization. Yea fee can be like 1$-100$ but it will be unstopable and resisant.
While any currency that want copy Visa will end centralized in datacenter like Visa.
Few DDOS and whole system is taken down.

Holliday, I respect you, but I think this idea that Bitcoin can be Gold 2.0 without first establishing widespread use is one of the dumbest ideas in the whole debate.

Scarcity alone doesn't provide value.  (e.g. Tulip Bulbs)

The security model doesn't work either imo -- kind of like how tax revenues go down when you raise the tax rate, because the base just shrinks.

But hey, we'll see.  I've been wrong before.

I say we let the free market decide.  If storage becomes expensive, and/or the users see nodes becoming too centralized, then they can choose off chain solutions.  No need to centrally plan it.

No, what is stupid is thinking we can just give people whatever they want while ignoring the real costs and resources required to achieve those things.

I'm about as big a Bitcoin "fanatic" as you will find, but Bitcoin will never achieve "widespread" use. I don't know if you interact with "normal" people, but I do on a regular basis, and any time Bitcoin is the discussion, a huge majority of them have no clue what it is, how it works, nor do they ever intend to find out. Most of them are outright hostile to the idea! These people don't even understand how fiat works, which they use every day of their lives! Trying to design monetary freedom around these people is pure folly.

A system where the decentralized model relies on full nodes keeping a record of every transaction since the first simply can't be used by the "mainstream" for "everyday" transactions. I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, but I don't understand why you can't grasp this! The sacrifices and trade-offs required to keep Bitcoin transactions cheap and fast forever will ultimately turn it into something completely unrecognizable, and ultimately useless.

you see how is now going both sides miners/core devs have no plan/road map how go with that.
for me it should be today we go for like 1.5MB-2MB block-size but we agree for segwit to migrate small translations to 2nd layer where you don' care about security that much.
Then bitcoin can go to next lvl.

If you want let market decide then you need to create forks and see where is that going better over years.
But with forks you divide community and userbase.
THat is why that whole moves have to be planed.
I don't want rob miners from fees but they have to be aware of that they won't get all cake.
People will just move to ETH then DASH then X Y Z coin on the timeline.
And end game will be crypto with no bock-chain and no miners... just nodes payed for that they are exits.

You can try lite coin, bitcoin is very cubbersome to use now a days.

This is one reason why altcoins can thrive even if Bitcoin remains top dog. At some point, Bitcoin will be hard to get and very expensive, so various altcoins could be used for small transactions.

I totally agree with this sentiment.   It would be so much easier to use dash or doge for stuff, but NO ONE takes those coins.  Nevertheless,  I'm happy with bitcoin as an investment and not a currency.   

I agree 100%.
If Bitcoin can become a widespread currency, it will need to be decades off.
Anything sooner is a delusion created from the hype/pumper groups.
"Rub this bitcoin cream on your skin, it even takes away your wrinkles!!!"

If noobs only want low fees and faster confirmations, they should leave Bitcoin for those scam coins.
That will be the only way for them to learn their lessons. Some people need to touch the hot flame.
They want Bitcoin to become just like the system that Satoshi create Bitcoin to counter.

Ignorant or plain stupid? Maybe both. Did you come here to complain or just show the whole world that you're now butthurt about Bitcoin not sending your money as fast and as cheap as you'd like it to?
Go back to fiat, it will be just as you want it to and you will still have no idea how it works.

at a multiple transaction is not even convenient, in the bitcoin core, it is protecting people from insufficient funds to mine. as well, the higher transaction fee is not a great solution to major one.

Things aren't going to get fixed for or by people who "don't care". I understand your situation, we are all on the same boat, but when someone claims he "doesn't" care, then the answer is indeed use higher fees... Because nobody cares about people who don't care. However, you care enough to use Bitcoin... ;)


This has been said on the forums many, many times: We aren't getting Visa-like usage out of the blue.

guys, whether its 5, 10 , 20, or 30 years, the only we're gonna get there is low fees and fast transactions.  I guess we're just not on the same page and maybe never will be.  And that's fine.   The market is going to do what its going to do.

Is blockstream the leader to make all such activities. If so blockstream tries to make it a centralized system which function under their control. Now the transaction that stuck into the network have now decreased a lot though the price for immediate confirmation have increased.

My distinction is that as technology advances over the 5, 10, 20, or 30 years, then we can
scale on-chain and along the way. So, as time goes on, bitcoin will transform from a "gold
storage" to a "currency". We can not be a currency now or anytime soon.

If Satoshi truly intended a decentralized currency, he was 20-50 years too early for mass
amounts of users. Technology has not caught up to Satoshi's vision with large adoption.

I want on-chain scaling, but IMO on-chain scaling now (depending on size) is dangerous.
Would you allow a baby to cross the street by itself? Or do you raise and guide the child
till they learn everything and then they can go and cross the street on their own without
your observation or concern? Point is, that Bitcoin is still a baby, and too much risk could
harm the baby. Over time, as the baby grows and matures, we can safely scale on-chain.

The "bitcoin as gold storage" users are not "holding Bitcoin back", it is technology itself.
I would rather have a decentralized gold now and decentralized currency later, than a
centralized and regulatable currency now.

dude... storage costs have already decreased like 10 fold since the 1mb has been put in place -- why
aren't we then at at 10mb blocks?

This stagnation is just indefensible... and it would be insane until you realize its being done willfully by Blockstream.

You could always plan ahead and expect the unexpected by putting ample amount of BTC few hours or days earlier to the sites that you use in gambling. By doing this, you are guaranteed to have your BTC ready when the need to bet spontaneously arises. But then, it is always your choice whether you'll be using BTC or not. There are always pros and cons in anything that we use. You should just ask yourself if the pros outweigh the cons, in this case, whether to still use BTC in your gambling activities or not.

Storage capability is not the problem.
The problem is broadband, processing, and etc.
The larger the blocks become the more regular people can no longer handle the data load.
We do not want people to have to build custom systems just to relay block and tx data.
No one would do that for free and would cause validator nodes to decrease and ultimately
forced to centralize around a few companies or whatever, who can handle the massive load.

The miners willing centralized in their race for hash supremacy. There is no incentive for
validator nodes to centralize, like the miners did. In fact, they should try to remain decentralized
as a checks & balances to the centralization of the miners. If both systems become fully centralized,
then Bitcoin fails IMO. Everything then becomes a big scam for dumb investors and noobs.

If we can slow the on-chain scaling to bumps over time, by 2055 we can have people at home
validating with their normal computer systems while also using bitcoin as the currency that
Satoshi envisioned, IMO.

If they did not care what users want, why then did they code SegWit and the Lightning Network? You cannot blame Core or BU for "slow confirmation" times. If you want to blame someone, you would have to find out who is behind these spam attacks and also what miners are doing to resolve the matter. < mining selectively to make it worst, so that they can push up the fees are not helping at all >

You were a bit too quick on the trigger to blame Core again. ^grrrrrrr^

If you can pay high fee then you will surely not face any types of problem with your bitcoin transaction confirm .
since it is a bitter truth that we can make a big fee to pay but still we have another options to make Gambling without the transaction got confirmed .
I tried once Gambling at Cloudbet.com but my confirmation goes freez for two days but  a good thing that happened with me That the amount of bitcoin that I made deposit got credited in the account after half hour .
So here I don't feel that you need to leave bitcoin .

if he play on various site and need to make many transaction, can result in his profit getting killed, not really a great suggestion, we can't always say that the problem lie in the user not paying more

because paying more is actually why we are paying so much for each transaction, this is the wrong approach, everyone should pay less to diminish the average tx fee over time

what you say is a bit contradictory.
if you want the privacy and other things that using bitcoin offers you then you wouldn't have said what you just said.
then if you are gambling and are in fact good at it, paying $0.41 is not really something that you even consider "high" or big enough for you to create a topic and talk about "leaving bitcoin"!

also you keep repeating "I am not tech savvy"! you don't need to be. just use a proper wallet that suggests fees properly. bitcoin core as a full verifying wallet and Electrum as an SPV wallet and blockchain.info as a web wallet do this properly. you don't have to know anything, they suggest best fees in a very newbie friendly GUI and you just click send.
I use Electrum so I am talking with 100% confidence that the fee it suggests as high (currently ~200 s/b or ~0.0004BTC for a normal tx equal to ~41 cents) is a good fee.

edit
if 40-50 cents per tx (per bet) is killing his profit then maybe it is best he stops gambling.

p.s we all know about the problem and the spam attack and the increasing fee and the fee war but there is no need to make a new account just to say "this was my last btc transaction" and make more drama in this board as you can see from all the previous comments.

The Gambling sites need to go off-chain for the intermin to avoid the slow transaction processing due to Mempool.
 For those who don't want to pay that large of a fee on small bets could always make an account and create a bet on betmoose or something.
However I feel like the real solution for the period is to provide an alt-coin as a quick deposit option.
It is a good time to be poloniex or a Bitcoin exchange.

you should try to pay an extra fee.. much higher fees perhaps. having a normal transaction will take time for confirmation. so if you're in a rush, better have a higher fee..

The option for you would be to pay higher transaction fee if you are using bitcoin to gamble or use other gambling platforms such as Vdice which uses ETH only as the entire platform is based on the Ethereum blockchain. I believe the confirmation is quicker and cheaper than bitcoin. 

https://www.vdice.io/

For many people paying high transaction fees is a deterred factor when using bitcoin but I can't believe that it is applies for gamblers and traders because there is no reason to care so much for some more satoshis. So, anybody wants to be served more fast than the others must be willing to pay more. That is fair, right?

It doesnt really matter at all and you are right those small amount of satoshis on fees cant affect too much on them.Bitcoin would really be used because of its fast transaction or payment convenience related to any activities which do commonly happen on cryptocurrency world.

it doesn't really matter, really, as long as the transaction is confirmed and you get your bitcoin. you don't need to pay higher for small payment, just need to keep patient.

however, leaving bet is good one.

I would say that you think twice before leaving Bitcoins. I mean, there are problems and nothing is perfect, slw confirmation could realy be annoying but this all can be solved. You can also have problems with your bank account or credit card but you will not quit them just like that, right. But the good thing in your story is that you leave gambling, you will save a lot of money.

Well, I got my bitcoin in less than 1 more than the previous week. And I send someone btc in a few minutes as well. So basically, it was smooth on my end, whether receiving or accepting it. So its a good experience for me overall. However, even if my transaction got confirmed later, I will still used it still as my mode of payment. Remember, it was designed for micro-payment as well so it will still go for me. I haven't check the mempool lately so I don't know if there are still a lot of network transaction backlog though.

Paying a larger transaction fees will solve the issue but what if the odds are pretty low and you wont be having a good winning margin then it will be an issue,but i would suggest the OP using sites like nitrogen,cloudbet and so on so that you could wage your bet when ever you want and take your winnings at a later time ,it could save some fees you are talking about.

This is right, once you pay a large fees will gets better and faster confirmation. I also encountered this kind of problem, too slow to process the transactions. This has been the problem really of mang users too many pending transactions.

Your problem was the most problem here in the forum and every single transaction that are so hard to confirm was the fees was so low and if you are having a hard time on it why would you gonna quit in any transaction you ever made! just bare with it for now and make a bigger fees so you would not have any problem like that!

Maybe the whole "fee" thing is why Dogecoin does so well. It stays cheap but consistent and reliable. When transferring between exchanges, trade in BTC for Doge, transfer to new exchange, then trade Doge back to BTC. Is that what's happening?

I can understand the issue. Being a gambler I can understand we often tend to make last minute bets and it's annoying if you miss out on the bets. One option I feel not really sure if it's exists. What if you could top up your betting account. I mean pick a reliable betting site, top it up and then keep on playing without any worry. Not sure if this is correct. I also feel if this is moved to gambling discussion thread you will get far more deeper replies, do consider it.

Faster confirmations, cheaper fees = segwit + schnorr sigs

Instant confirmations, near free = LN

blocksize remains reasonable to be run under average computer = decentralized network

Core Roadmap = the best

Any questions?

Hard fork?

In the end it will become a Hard Fork. Just because the fractions can't settle. No Hardfork would require unity which isn't existing.

What are the possible consequences of a hardfork? And, wouldn't that create a "new coin?" And, would that split the market capital also?

I understand that you are frustrated as a gambler and that long confirmation periods are making you troubles because often you can miss good opportunities because of that. But don't quit bitcoin entirely, there are other fields where you can use it and holding bitcoin is still good investment.

Considering how the bitcoin economy market value is based on gambling in a very large way means that if people stop using bitcoin in gambling affects it in a big way, and since the transaction are taking a lot longer time to get complete means that gamblers will have a hard time making bets at the right moment so they stop gambling with bitcoin, and if this consists that means that we are going to see a big crash of the price.

I really can't understand why people refuse to accept that bitcoin was designed to eventually have high transaction fees.

Bitcoin was designed with a built in system that gives miners free money for mining (block reward). The free money was scheduled to slowly drop and transaction fees would slowly take over for the block reward. Bitcoin, at no time, was ever expected or designed to be a "free" method for sending money.

Bitcoin only has one fucking job people. It removes the need for trusted third parties to supervise transactions.

That is all. By design, it's not free, it does not pay you for sitting at your computer, it does not help you buy drugs, it will not get you pussy, it is not a gangstas paradise, it will not make you a winning gambler. Use it for whatever you want but realize it ain't free.

Yes, just pay good fee so you gonna be prioritize for the confirmation of your transaction. The more you give the transaction fee the more you get prioritize that is how it works now. But still the fee is increasing day by day to make the confirmation possible in early time. Need to think on how to solve this confirmation time issue.

Most definitely, most of the people right now are not worried about the increasing fees for faster confirmations​of the transactions but what it will become in future..?
The developers and everyone whose in the Bitcoin universe should think about it and have to find a way to save the Bitcoin.

thats why weed need bitcoin unlimited .
Bitcoin is slow now

So you are making 1 transaction for every bet? Obviously the ten thousands of nodes cannot keep storing and processing all transactions PLUS all the casino bets in the world.

Just make a deposit to sites like https://nitrogensports.eu, make hundreds/thousands of bets and withdraw once a month. Needs only 2 transactions a month like that. No need to make 50 transactions a day lol.

I guess it should not hurt too much paying 400-500 bits per transaction for an active gambler- how much you bet each round?

On a separate note: A few days ago I sent a tx with a very very low fee of 0.25sat/byte... Actually I paid 100 bits to sweep an address with hundreds of tiny inputs (from faucet micro earnings many years back). It took less than a day for it to go through... I have no complain at all!

We don't. It's Segwit that offers the best possible solution to end this nonsense. But hey, you are of course free to support an altcoin if you so wish.

As DH also stated, pay a higher fee, and your problem is as good as solved. If you don't want to pay the network-situation-appropriate fee, then that's up to you, but don't complain.

For the matter of fact i don't think that bitcoin stops today.
As we coming into this bitcoin matter it has a long way to go.
It will not today or next tomorrow stopped but rather it is about to spread all over the world.

Use pre-funded accounts, and then you can stop clogging the network with small gambling transactions.

This is the best suggestion so far that ive read and this is only the common way to fasten up confirmation on making bitcoin transactions.I do really feel the way you feel since im also a gambler and the hassle of slow confirmation times does really affect our gameplay or plans.

either use wallets that will automatically calculate the fee and even pay the fee for you, like directbet playing wallet and maybe some other online wallets or exchange, or use altcoins to bet, if the site accepts them.

But, accelerate the confirmation fee already more and more high.

Schnorr is only supposed to help about 25% from what I've read.


Segwit might be a small increase that would help
for 6-12 months but the fact is that it hasn't
even been accepted.

Sure, you can blame the miners for this but
you have to at least admit the simple
fact that if the core devs really wanted to, they could have
shepherded in an increase by now by simply
agreeing to a larger blocksize.

Meanwhile, adoption is going backwards -- not just
gambling as the OP says, but Dell and Fiverr are
dropping Bitcoin support because its too unrealiable
and meanwhile things are being built
on top of Ethereum, Litecoin, etc.


First of all, LN isn't here yet.
Might not be here for 2 years.

And who told you it would be 'near free'?

You still have to pay to settle back to
the main chain. 

And what makes you think the first
LN implementations won't be
"Paypal 2.0"s?  Because that is
the easiest thing to build and
the most profitable, and therefore
the most likely.


Well that would certainly be nice, but Satoshi always anticipated
that eventually full mining nodes would become large and expensive
as the network grows.

Do you realize that the LN is still going to require very large blocks
to provide worldwide scale? Some are estimating 133MB (google it if you want).

But there is some good news:  Olivier Janns seems to
have a great idea that will help decentralization and
both sides of the debate should like:

https://medium.com/@olivierjanss/the-solution-to-the-block-size-debate-42c3814ff481
 

These problem is the one reason why other economists suggest the Bitcoin Unlimited. They want to have fast confirmations so bitcoin users will never be converting to other altcoin, but just bitcoin. This is a problem that needs a solution quickly before the tower of users crumble down.

I gambled on the site for instant deposite it really instant I didn't have to wait for confirmation but the impact as I receive payment from the website were very long for confirmation and I had to contact the CS on the site. may I suggest to use gambling site where you must create an account and fill balance first before gambling

Well Bitcoin came and raised all hopes to expect decentralized, instant and very low cost of transaction, but all that seems to belong to the museum at this point and people are legitimately feeling short changed if not betrayed. A suggestion to go back to fiat based casinos is salt to injury, much more like a stab in the back of any Bitcoin enthusiast.

Slow confirmation can be handled with paying high transaction fee, but the problem is, people want fast confirmation with low fee, that's ​why come out the forking debate, but for myself I will still used bitcoin even though it got high fee because there are some feature that i can only get by using bitcoin, that feature is anonymity, with this feature i can gamble without being notice by others

It still not solves tha most imporatnt issue. To process transaction fast we need to pay 200-220 satoshi per byte.
That will be ~45.000 satoshi fee = roughly $0.5 if your transaction is perfect 1 input TX!
For 2 inputs TX you will pay ~75.000 satoshi fee, so sending money via money transfer might actually be less expensive.

I couldn't agree with you more. Just be prepared to pay more for quicker transactions, why say goodbye when your grievances can be resolved? I feel you have to give it a second thought and pay higher if possible get an online wallet  for your gambling where they charge higher to deliver quick confirmations .

Regarding on the last transaction, i do not mind when or what i do on transaction because i am supporting bitcoin as one of it community who uses bitcoin on a daily basis. I already do different transaction because i choose to have a suitable wallet for me which is called as coin.ph in this i can pay bills,buy load or even convert and monitor the change in the value of bitcoin so i can also check the price for my tradings. And regarding on trading i also used it on accepting bitcoin. So in specific i uses bitcoin in all transaction so there is no last transaction that i will do/