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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: OmegaStarScream on April 10, 2017, 06:50:26 AM



Title: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: OmegaStarScream on April 10, 2017, 06:50:26 AM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I'm however not sure about the part where he said "Bitcoin's user network grew from 120,000 users in 2013 to 6.5 million users in 2017" as there is no way to calculate the userbase of bitcoin. Despite all that, what are your thoughts?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 10, 2017, 07:01:02 AM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I originally thought BTC might top out below $50k.

But now that I understand that BTC will be exclusively only the settlement layer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1857162.msg18526721#msg18526721) for the mass scaling which will take place in altcoins, I now think his analysis may be correct.

All the power broker settlement will likely to be on the Bitcoin blockchain which will be the bulk of the fungible capital generated by the masses on the altcoins as dictated by the power-law (Zipf's law) distribution of wealth. Thus Bitcoin is the reserve currency of all the altcoins.

This is why one must stay invested in this sector. Note I do think the altcoins that scale up the masses will see faster appreciation than BTC in spurts, so that is one of way of increasing one's BTC if you are expert at speculation. Otherwise buy and hodl BTC.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: mindrust on April 10, 2017, 07:12:25 AM
I agree with him.

You shouldn't dump your bitcoins to get pennies. Wait it at least to go x10 before you sell them. Bitcoin's market cap is still around 20Billion$. It is a mid-size company yet and there is much more room to grow.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: mmo4me.2016 on April 10, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
I think the BTC price will increase, but for $ 500,000 I have not thought about it


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: DoublerHunter on April 10, 2017, 11:29:28 AM
This is one of the proof that many people believed in bitcoin rather than other cryptocurrency in the world. This prediction may happen if bitcoin will just be accepted in the whole world and if the billionaires will invest in bitcoin and buy a lot of them. No doubt that bitcoin will start to climb up that price and prove that they are serious in bitcoin.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Juggy777 on April 10, 2017, 12:08:23 PM
In the long run his words will be forgotten, it's a very big assumption and I feel he is doing it to hike the btc price which he has in order to sell his Bitcoins and get out. I don't think this is a reality especially with BU and Segwit. As far the number based maybe he's taken from the exchanges or just decided to quote a random number knowing very well no one can find the truth. I would be more than to Happy if the price reach half or 3/4 also


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Iranus on April 10, 2017, 12:40:32 PM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I'm however not sure about the part where he said "Bitcoin's user network grew from 120,000 users in 2013 to 6.5 million users in 2017" as there is no way to calculate the userbase of bitcoin. Despite all that, what are your thoughts?
My theory is that Bitcoin's user base will not grow significantly, but its price will rise because of the amount of money that each new investor puts into it.

Bitcoin will be much more of a stable asset.  A fee market is required in order to preserve at least some level of decentralisation in mining, and that'll result in people flocking to several different altcoins which are more scalable.  However, everyone that wants their money to be more secure will hold a significant amount in Bitcoin and use it for large transactions as well as HODLing, which people are starting to do already.  The fees will only grow due to halvings and that'll increase Bitcoin's use as a stable asset as people buy into cryptocurrencies which are better for everyday transactions.

If Bitcoin were to become used like gold (which is very likely, especially considering that gold is quite hard for an average person to hold on their own), its price could come close to 500,000 just from that.  Gold's marketcap is about 7 trillion, and dividing that by a 21 million total supply will get you 333,333.  Market cap is very misleading though because much less than that would actually be in circulation, so in reality the price would be much closer to 500,000.  It's possible, but it'll take time.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: jtipt on April 10, 2017, 01:06:59 PM
I agree with him.

You shouldn't dump your bitcoins to get pennies. Wait it at least to go x10 before you sell them. Bitcoin's market cap is still around 20Billion$. It is a mid-size company yet and there is much more room to grow.
I agree with you there, it's really not a wise thing to sell BTC to get into altcoins or just selling after a surge to make a little profit. and now for "according to Jeremy Liew BTC is worth more than $500,000 by 2030" by 2030 is the keyword here, he is prediction BTC's price after 13 years and from the past we have seen since the beginning of bitcoin it has multiplied by x1000 in ~8years. What do you thing will happen in another 8-10 years, with the current pace we could say it will be 1000 folds by next 10 years.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: AngryDwarf on April 10, 2017, 01:16:16 PM
A fee market is required in order to preserve at least some level of decentralisation in mining,

Could you explain your logic behind this, because at the moment I do not understand it. It's still the same number of blocks that people are fighting over and miners will still pool their resources to an acceptable level of variance, given the difficulty adjustment timeframe.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Red-Apple on April 10, 2017, 01:29:10 PM
I think the BTC price will increase, but for $ 500,000 I have not thought about it

speculation like this is always about very long term not anytime soon. and it is possible though hard.
you have to always look at the bigger picture instead of looking at the short term changes and how things are. for example look at the whole chart from day 1 it hit the exchanges. and how price has changed.
look at the total supply of bitcoin (21 mil) and look at the population of the world and how many of them would possibly want bitcoin in lets say 5 years.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: hankyulpark on April 10, 2017, 01:38:57 PM
To predict a future value too many years away it is really just a guess. That being said, this is always a good media. When mainstream media keeps headlighting that BTC price will rise, more and more people want a piece of it. In the practical world, there is a lot to be done to transform BTC blockchain in a viable multi-transaction payment method.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: manselr on April 10, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
I agree with him.

You shouldn't dump your bitcoins to get pennies. Wait it at least to go x10 before you sell them. Bitcoin's market cap is still around 20Billion$. It is a mid-size company yet and there is much more room to grow.

Well if it hit anywhere close to $500,000 by 2030 then any sellers are going to be feeling the biggest idiots by then since that is enough money to retire in a cheap country with only a couple of BTCS. With 4 BTCs you would have 2 million dollars after taxes, you can still live comfortably without working in a cheap country.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: The_Dark_Knight on April 10, 2017, 05:49:10 PM
I agree with him.

You shouldn't dump your bitcoins to get pennies. Wait it at least to go x10 before you sell them. Bitcoin's market cap is still around 20Billion$. It is a mid-size company yet and there is much more room to grow.
This is correct those that day trade their coins are wasting their time in my opinion the value of bitcoin will keep going up as more and more people get disappointed with the fiat system and when that happens the increase in value will be incredible.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Yogafan00000 on April 10, 2017, 06:09:25 PM
I don't know about $500,000 in 14 years....

It means the Bitcoin goes up by $100USD (average) every single day for nearly 14 years, with no breaks like Christmas or Kwanzaa. Even the last 8 years, Bitcoin *only* did approx 50 cents per day to go from zero to $1200USD.

Even the highest stock Berkshire Hathaway only did $24 per day increase (average) sustained over 27 years. Bitcoin would have to be quadruple the performance of BRK.A

Did anything else ever go up this much over such a long period?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: cellard on April 10, 2017, 06:25:42 PM
I don't know about $500,000 in 14 years....

It means the Bitcoin goes up by $100USD (average) every single day for nearly 14 years, with no breaks like Christmas or Kwanzaa. Even the last 8 years, Bitcoin *only* did approx 50 cents per day to go from zero to $1200USD.

Even the highest stock Berkshire Hathaway only did $24 per day increase (average) sustained over 27 years. Bitcoin would have to be quadruple the performance of BRK.A

Did anything else ever go up this much over such a long period?

I think BTC is the BRK.A of crypto. BRK.A didn't have a finite supply of assets and so on...

I would like to see this happen, but I don't really see how, it's just too much. $100,000 would be a dream by 2030 to me, even $50,000 would be amazing. I hope to see at least 5 figures by then, if not it will be disappointing.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Yakamoto on April 10, 2017, 06:33:32 PM
I guess some of what he says (or more than just some) carries a decent amount of weight, but at the same time it's a snapchat investment and snapchat is maybe going to be a thing for another 5 years before social media moves on. It's cyclical, like twitter and facebook now falling out of favor, and MySpace before that.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his calculations and assume they are correct, and I guess it's quite possible going off of what he says. I'd like to talk with him more abut the subject, but that'll sadly never happen.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: agustina2 on April 10, 2017, 06:46:07 PM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I'm however not sure about the part where he said "Bitcoin's user network grew from 120,000 users in 2013 to 6.5 million users in 2017" as there is no way to calculate the userbase of bitcoin. Despite all that, what are your thoughts?

There are some hard to achieved statement by him as their factors why they stated that bitcoin price could hit $500,000.

The bitcoin user network will grow 61 times through 2030. A population of bitcoin users comprising 5% of the world’s population in 2030 will drive the price to $500,000 in 2030. From 2013 to 2017, the network grew from 120,000 users to 6.5 million users, nearly a 54-fold gain. Such growth would produce 400 million users in 2030.

The average bitcoin value per user will hit $25,000. When institutional investors cash in their bitcoins, bitcoin-based ETFs and trading by sophisticated investors will increase, pushing the average value to $25,000. With a current market cap of $17.4 billion and 6.5 million users, the average user now holds $2,515 of bitcoin.

The 2030 market cap is based on the number of bitcoin holders multiplied by the average held bitcoin value.

The cryptocurrency’s 2030 supply will be about 20 million.

The 2030 price and user count will total $500,000 and 400 million, respectively. The price is determined by taking the $10 trillion market cap and dividing it by 20 million bitcoins, the fixed supply.


Technically might need some further deep explanation and analysis. I doubt it can happened in the next 10-15 years but for chances, Im optimisitic it's possible. Who knows after all.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: coolcoinz on April 10, 2017, 07:06:41 PM
The important part is "by 2030." 13 years is such a long period for cryptocurrency, that it could die and be reborn at least twice. Take a look a t the charts, we watched Bitcoin reach ATH of over $1000 in 2013 and drop to $150 just over a year later. We can only speculate how many similar events will happen in 13 years. We could even have a world war by that time...


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: cryp24x on April 10, 2017, 07:22:16 PM
Calculating the adoption and market saturation with the current price ratio.  It is definitely possible if Bitcoin have met certain requirements.  I also agree with what Jeremy Liew said, the exponential growth of users will certainly push Bitcoin price to the said price.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Rinder on April 10, 2017, 08:07:19 PM
Sure the last 8 years has been amazing to bitcoin, and bubbles had damaged a lot in the begining, nowadays the value is much more stable and has a better support, but  prediting bitcoin at 500k dollars its insane, since the more cost bitcoin becomes it loose more and more investors, people wont be able to keep buying forever bitcoin with a price always increasing. At 2020 the bitcoin value should be around 1100-1300 dollars, and we are already  into those, soo at those period maybe 2000 dollars can be achieved, but this is all speculation, otherwise all people would make huge loans just to get inside bitcoin.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: leopard2 on April 10, 2017, 10:10:23 PM
it is unimportant whether BTC can be worth 5000, 50 000 or 500 000

Either way it makes sense to buy some and HODL  ;D


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Slow death on April 10, 2017, 10:23:50 PM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I'm however not sure about the part where he said "Bitcoin's user network grew from 120,000 users in 2013 to 6.5 million users in 2017" as there is no way to calculate the userbase of bitcoin. Despite all that, what are your thoughts?

I do not want to be pessimistic, it was very exaggerated that bitcoin in 2030 will be in the $500.000

...but  prediting bitcoin at 500k dollars its insane...

I agree, 500,000 was greatly exaggerated.




Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: thejaytiesto on April 11, 2017, 01:28:17 AM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I originally thought BTC might top out below $50k.

But now that I understand that BTC will be exclusively only the settlement layer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1857162.msg18526721#msg18526721) for the mass scaling which will take place in altcoins, I now think his analysis may be correct.

All the power broker settlement will likely to be on the Bitcoin blockchain which will be the bulk of the fungible capital generated by the masses on the altcoins as dictated by the power-law (Zipf's law) distribution of wealth. Thus Bitcoin is the reserve currency of all the altcoins.

This is why one must stay invested in this sector. Note I do think the altcoins that scale up the masses will see faster appreciation than BTC in spurts, so that is one of way of increasing one's BTC if you are expert at speculation. Otherwise buy and hodl BTC.

Do you really believe in the $500,000 in 10 year prediction? If BTC is 6 figures by 2030, even $100,000 would do it for me. I think I could have enough to sell 50% and keep hodling 50% and dedicate myself to a stress free lifestyle without working, no luxuries tho.

I just can't believe it tbh. The growth would be unprecedented. I cant think of any other asset that would have growth at such rate ever.

A lot of things can happen in 10 years, but one thing is clear, the more time BTC stays alive, the more it solidifies. It's the only blockchain with 7+ uptime, no other can claim that unless they invent a time machine too. Uninterrupted uptime is a strong asset in itself.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: mr.mister on April 11, 2017, 01:39:17 AM
In the long run his words will be forgotten, it's a very big assumption and I feel he is doing it to hike the btc price which he has in order to sell his Bitcoins and get out. I don't think this is a reality especially with BU and Segwit. As far the number based maybe he's taken from the exchanges or just decided to quote a random number knowing very well no one can find the truth. I would be more than to Happy if the price reach half or 3/4 also


It's not an assumption. It's a forecast, based on facts and projections for the future. He is doing nothing different than any analyst does with any stock. Did you bother to read the article? He outlines clearly why he thinks it will go up. I see it as very plausible.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: stomachgrowls on April 11, 2017, 01:56:11 AM
$500k price per bitcoin is just really an insane thing to think off on this kind of price range and i would really say that 13 years isnt really enough to make this huge growth on bitcoins price.Its too much unrealistic to consider it might grow big but not this big where comes to a point reaching out half a million dollars.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: FlightyPouch on April 11, 2017, 01:57:32 AM
That is 499 000 more than the current price of bitcoin in just 13 years?! That is insane, how can bitcoin price goes up like that? Maybe I will be believeing that users blow up really, here in our place, bitcoin user starts in 3 persons and start to flurish after 3 weeks and became 10 now. Yes it is kust a little number, but if many plaves are dling the same, then it is not possible to reach a 6.5 million users. I will just continue to use bitcpin and see what will happen.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: mr.mister on April 11, 2017, 02:02:23 AM
That is 499 000 more than the current price of bitcoin in just 13 years?! That is insane, how can bitcoin price goes up like that? Maybe I will be believeing that users blow up really, here in our place, bitcoin user starts in 3 persons and start to flurish after 3 weeks and became 10 now. Yes it is kust a little number, but if many plaves are dling the same, then it is not possible to reach a 6.5 million users. I will just continue to use bitcpin and see what will happen.

It appears that a lot of you are commenting without having fully read the article. He shows you the math, as to how he arrives at $500,000. Is it guaranteed? Of course not. Is it possible? Of course it is.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 02:08:45 AM
In my conservative estimation, if bitcoin was to be a world reserve currency to facilitate global trades, then by right today's price of bitcoin would be...

1. Say we use a conservative value of global trade back in 2009 (when stock market collapsed), which was around 12 trillion.
2. Say we use a money velocity (don't forget this) of 2.5.
3. 12 trillion / 2.5 to get the money supply of 4.8 trillion.
4. 21 million bitcoin means each will need to be around 228,571 today to facilitate global trades.



Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamTom123 on April 11, 2017, 02:15:46 AM
This is one of the proof that many people believed in bitcoin rather than other cryptocurrency in the world. This prediction may happen if bitcoin will just be accepted in the whole world and if the billionaires will invest in bitcoin and buy a lot of them. No doubt that bitcoin will start to climb up that price and prove that they are serious in bitcoin.

Well, yes it can be possible but am sure that along the way there would be many hurdles that the Bitcoin community has to successfully pass with flying colors. If the whole Bitcoin community or stakeholders can get their acts together then there is a big possibility that one day Bitcoin can reached the said 500K level. Anyway, this is just another nice story or rather a way to get some attention from the many Bitcoin enthusiasts and whether the prediction can come true remains to be seen but I would really be happy if Bitcoin can be so valuable from what it is now.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Sadlife on April 11, 2017, 02:17:28 AM
With the current chinese mining mafia ?
I think it's not possible unless we get rid of these chinese miner mafia.
And we can safely say that Bitcoin will reach $500000 in 2030.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: mr.mister on April 11, 2017, 02:23:53 AM
In my conservative estimation, if bitcoin was to be a world reserve currency to facilitate global trades, then by right today's price of bitcoin would be...

1. Say we use a conservative value of global trade back in 2009 (when stock market collapsed), which was around 12 trillion.
2. Say we use a money velocity (don't forget this) of 2.5.
3. 12 trillion / 2.5 to get the money supply of 4.8 trillion.
4. 21 million bitcoin means each will need to be around 228,571 today to facilitate global trades.





It is estimated that by 2030, according to the article, and probably the bitcoin clock as well, that, there will only be 20 million (not 21 million) bitcoin in circulation minus the ones that are lost (locked in the blockchain). Your numbers are off, and also don't account for supply and demand.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: rajasumi3 on April 11, 2017, 02:28:48 AM
No it wont be valued so much .even if it valued so much it will take more than 80 years to reach that value and dont expect that we are gonna live so much long enough .
At the end of the year we should be focused for 2000$ and it will be a big leap for bitcoins.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 02:35:44 AM
It is estimated that by 2030, according to the article, and probably the bitcoin clock as well, that, there will only be 20 million (not 21 million) bitcoin in circulation minus the ones that are lost (locked in the blockchain). Your numbers are off, and also don't account for supply and demand.

I tried to be as conservative as possible, thus I don't use the 20 mil figure.

Can you specify precisely what kind of supply and demand, and how such supply and demand will determine the price of bitcoin?

No, I don't think supply and demand from the exchanges will determine the price of bitcoin once it is tied to global trades.

If you are sincere, why don't you make your own estimation?


Edit:
No, my numbers are not off. Just because you don't like what you see does not make it off.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on April 11, 2017, 03:18:55 AM
Back in 1999, there was one big-name dude who was predicting an imminent explosion of the Dow to 36,000.  It's very easy to predict a huge money shot when everyone is horny--but that doesn't mean we all need to break out the Kleenex yet.

What I'm saying is that this guy could be right, but overoptimistic projections aren't exactly in short supply and they can't all be right.  I'm not holding my breath or my zipper on this one.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: ebliever on April 11, 2017, 03:30:24 AM
It is estimated that by 2030, according to the article, and probably the bitcoin clock as well, that, there will only be 20 million (not 21 million) bitcoin in circulation minus the ones that are lost (locked in the blockchain). Your numbers are off, and also don't account for supply and demand.

I tried to be as conservative as possible, thus I don't use the 20 mil figure.

Can you specify precisely what kind of supply and demand, and how such supply and demand will determine the price of bitcoin?

No, I don't think supply and demand from the exchanges will determine the price of bitcoin once it is tied to global trades.

If you are sincere, why don't you make your own estimation?


Edit:
No, my numbers are not off. Just because you don't like what you see does not make it off.

You present a use case (global trade) different from the one the OP assumes, so your numbers are a little different. But I agree your math is fine.  Each is plausible if bitcoin remains successful and resolves obstacles to reaching those goals over the next 13 years.

My own guess is that bitcoin is more likely to be a digital gold than a commercial currency, because other altcoins are already far ahead in developing characteristics needed for that role. Zcash is probably the furthest along with inherent privacy capability and auditability, both critical for commercial use. With all attention/focus on the blocksize/SW debate, I can't see Bitcoin devs having the energy or consensus to do anything dramatic in those areas for years to come, by which point it would be too late anyway.

No crypto can be all things to all people. Bitcoin must find its niche and optimize for it. There is still a huge amount of room for growth as digital gold, at any rate.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Amph on April 11, 2017, 06:12:02 AM
With the current chinese mining mafia ?
I think it's not possible unless we get rid of these chinese miner mafia.
And we can safely say that Bitcoin will reach $500000 in 2030.

chinese mafia or not, they have all the intent to see bitcoin with a very high value, why they should hinder this? it doesn't make sense

in fact they are desperetely find the fastest solution to scale, like BU and they are tired of consensus mechanics which require too much time and is hampering bitcoin adoption

what you see with antpool is an attempt to move on the next step, even if it is done in the wrong way


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: jubalix on April 11, 2017, 07:51:41 AM
Sure the last 8 years has been amazing to bitcoin, and bubbles had damaged a lot in the begining, nowadays the value is much more stable and has a better support, but  prediting bitcoin at 500k dollars its insane, since the more cost bitcoin becomes it loose more and more investors, people wont be able to keep buying forever bitcoin with a price always increasing. At 2020 the bitcoin value should be around 1100-1300 dollars, and we are already  into those, soo at those period maybe 2000 dollars can be achieved, but this is all speculation, otherwise all people would make huge loans just to get inside bitcoin.


but people may rationally do that.

Take huge loan, can not pay/choose not to pay off put still have the BTC. Especially if lending institutions cti irresponsibly


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: NeuroticFish on April 11, 2017, 08:28:16 AM
According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

When Bitcoin was $250, there were stories about "it will reach $10k".
Now Bitcoin is $1200 and the new stories tell about $500k.

There's no doubt that Bitcoin deserves a high valuation.
There's no doubt the price has a great chance to be higher after some years.
But I somehow have a feeling that some people feed us with dreams and hopes to keep their businesses running.

2030 is pretty far away. Especially in technology, which is known to advance exponentially. There's a chance for $10k, there's a chance for $500k, but there's also a chance for $100 or $1.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: buwaytress on April 11, 2017, 08:35:23 AM

When Bitcoin was $250, there were stories about "it will reach $10k".
Now Bitcoin is $1200 and the new stories tell about $500k.

There's no doubt that Bitcoin deserves a high valuation.
There's no doubt the price has a great chance to be higher after some years.
But I somehow have a feeling that some people feed us with dreams and hopes to keep their businesses running.

2030 is pretty far away. Especially in technology, which is known to advance exponentially. There's a chance for $10k, there's a chance for $500k, but there's also a chance for $100 or $1.


Well said, Neurotic. There's 100% a chance for Bitcoin to reach $500,000 in 2030, as much as there is 100% chance a chance for it to reach 0$. But no one can say there's a 100% chance for any price, especially that far away in the future. How many people have predicted the moon? As many who have predicted its death.

Let's not take those dreams and hopes simply because we're being fed.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Carlsen on April 11, 2017, 09:14:47 AM
I have read the article, unfortunatelly I do not agree to their theory.
400 million people using bitcoin in the year 2030 seems very unlikely to me.
I an sure bitcoin will grow, but not in such a magintude.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: AngryDwarf on April 11, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000

I have read the article, unfortunatelly I do not agree to their theory.
400 million people using bitcoin in the year 2030 seems very unlikely to me.
I an sure bitcoin will grow, but not in such a magintude.

They don't have to actually be using Bitcoin. They can be using any service for which BTC is the reserve currency that the whales of that services settle their commerce in BTC.

This is why scaling doesn't need to be on Bitcoin in order for Bitcoin to benefit.

The maximum transaction rate is still too low for an effective commercial settlement system. It can't handle SWIFT traffic levels for example, and that is just for settlement between financial institutions. Then its status as a reserve cryptocurrency becomes under threat.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 09:33:26 AM
Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000

I have read the article, unfortunatelly I do not agree to their theory.
400 million people using bitcoin in the year 2030 seems very unlikely to me.
I an sure bitcoin will grow, but not in such a magintude.

They don't have to actually be using Bitcoin. They can be using any service for which BTC is the reserve currency that the whales of that services settle their commerce in BTC.

This is why scaling doesn't need to be on Bitcoin in order for Bitcoin to benefit.

The maximum transaction rate is still too low for an effective commercial settlement system. It can't handle SWIFT traffic levels for example, and that is just for settlement between financial institutions. Then its status as a reserve cryptocurrency becomes under threat.

SWIFT is not restricted to power brokers. SWIFT allows any Joe Blow to wire $1000.

Bitcoin's block size is more than sufficient.

The entire point is to keep the riff-raff off of Bitcoin, so it doesn't need to be regulated. And isn't constantly assailed with such nonsense as UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863995.msg18535859#msg18535859).


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: InCryptoWeTrust on April 11, 2017, 09:39:40 AM
I think if at future will be many situations like Panama offshore, BTC can be over 66.000$, but 500.000$ too much, because at some news i saw, that American companies hide around 1,4 trillion dollars at Panama islands...It's only USA...
So 1,4 trillion / 21 mln Btc(at the end of mining) ~ 66,666 dollars.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Kizaki on April 11, 2017, 09:40:17 AM
I think bitcoin may worth more than $10,000 mark but would never ever reach that sick $500,000 mark in market.Yeah bitcoins and bitcoin community is a evergrowing community but think of it if bitcoin reaches that price it would be a threat to our old financial system,government financial system maybe gone and replace by bitcoin and i think that will cause problems


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 11:53:26 AM
The entire point is to keep the riff-raff off of Bitcoin, so it doesn't need to be regulated. And isn't constantly assailed with such nonsense as UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863995.msg18535859#msg18535859).

So if a riff-raff like me (and many others) are still holding onto bitcoins, then what are the shadow elites gonna do about it, in your opinion?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 12:01:31 PM
The entire point is to keep the riff-raff off of Bitcoin, so it doesn't need to be regulated. And isn't constantly assailed with such nonsense as UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863995.msg18535859#msg18535859).

So if a riff-raff like me (and many others) are still holding onto bitcoins, then what are the shadow elites gonna do about it, in your opinion?

They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

So you'll be forced to move your BTC to an exchange (or off chain in centralized hubs of Lightning Network), so you can be regulated and taxed (maybe even confiscated/hacked/lost in "bank run" on fractional reserves). The blockchain won't be regulated, but you won't be able to afford to transact there, only the $billionaires will.

I think they want the SegWit and Lightning Networks stuff to be not on Bitcoin, so that highly variable block size load doesn't pollute the reliability of Bitcoin. They'd rather push the masses onto another "Lite" blockchain (e.g. Litecoin). This reliability issue is why power brokers will hold their net balances (i.e. reserves) in BTC on the Bitcoin blockchain. This is why I foresee that Bitcoin will still attain huge demand even if scaling is on Litecoin.

I'm included in the "riff-raff".


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: AngryDwarf on April 11, 2017, 12:07:21 PM
They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

So you'll be forced to move your BTC to an exchange (or off chain in centralized hubs of Lightning Network), so you can be regulated and taxed (maybe even confiscated/hacked/lost in "bank run" on fractional reserves). The blockchain won't be regulated, but you won't be able to afford to transact there, only the $billionaires will.

Contradiction in the two paragraphs there. If the transaction fees are so high that he cannot move his BTC, then he cannot move them to an exchange or to a segwit/LN address.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 12:08:16 PM
They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

So you'll be forced to move your BTC to an exchange (or off chain in centralized hubs of Lightning Network), so you can be regulated and taxed (maybe even confiscated/hacked/lost in "bank run" on fractional reserves). The blockchain won't be regulated, but you won't be able to afford to transact there, only the $billionaires will.

Contradiction in the two paragraphs there. If the transaction fees are so high that he cannot move his BTC, then he cannot move them to an exchange or to a segwit/LN address.

No contradiction. I thought of that. He would of course move them before the fees become too high.

Smart people realize they don't have to write the obvious. Conserves keystrokes.

Those who have something to prove about ego (http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1404), are all elbows and acrimony and lacking of cogent substance.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 12:17:05 PM
They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

I don't have problem with high transaction fee, if 20,000 satoshis are worth $100, because that would mean each BTC will be worth 6 to 7 digits in figure.
Imagine if 0.1 BTC is $100, I don't think even the power brokers would tolerate such high fee.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Gilliam on April 11, 2017, 12:17:39 PM
You will put some very big money in an investment of course it's normal that you will look into positive things that will happen on bitcoin disregarding the close to reality.

Hope that his expectations can gather more investors. :)


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: miscreanity on April 11, 2017, 01:11:35 PM
They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

What might that threshold be - 10 BTC, 100, 1000...?

At the point where there may be only a few million Bitcoin-holding entities, wouldn't anonymity be broken due to blockchain analysis methods combined with the reduced user base? Or would agreements be adhered to at the top, creating a glass ceiling barrier to the Bitcoin billionaire gentleman's club?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: titibach on April 11, 2017, 01:14:35 PM
I think the BTC price will increase, but for $ 500,000 I have not thought about it

The age old question what will the 500k be worth compared to todays 500k in or around 2030.
i save bitcoin not because of statments and predictions like this though.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: ahmedjamal1998 on April 11, 2017, 01:15:36 PM
Well the past few years have been amazing for Bitcoins as a whole (disregarding what ever happened through them from issues/problems) and it gained a pretty much good price (from nothing to $1000+).
So yes it has a lot of potential but saying such numbers is a bit ridiculous simply because you can't even predict tomorrow's price ! lol :D  

He is optimistic because of the recent approach of a lot of ppl towards crypto currency in the world (taking Japan's recent acceptance of btc into consideration). All we can do right now is just hope he is right.
                    ^
To the moon   ^
                    ^  

:D


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: BillyBobZorton on April 11, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
$500,000 per coin? count me in!!

Also BTC will not be used by billionaires only, that's stupid, people will demand changes so bitcoin cannot be used only by a handful of people on earth. If it takes UASF then UASF will happen so segwit + LN can happen and everyone can use bitcoin, additional blocksize increases will come too. Nobody will support the "billionares only blockchain", that's stupid.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 01:58:48 PM
They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

I don't have problem with high transaction fee, if 20,000 satoshis are worth $100, because that would mean each BTC will be worth 6 to 7 digits in figure.
Imagine if 0.1 BTC is $100, I don't think even the power brokers would tolerate such high fee.

You don't seem to understand the issue properly. With a constrained blocksize if the transactions that fill up that block are all $100 million transactions then they can pay very easily a $10,000 fee to keep your transactions off the blockchain. If BTC is worth $100,000 at that point and you have 10 BTC, you are not going to want to spend that many times at $10,000 per spend.

At some point, the riff-raff is removed. If you can manage to remain in the super wealthy, then you can stay on chain Bitcoin.

Generally speaking most people will lose their BTC in one way or another. They will get hacked. They will have an emergency. They will get old and need to sell. They will sell too soon because they can afford a Ferrari. You not being a member of the wealthy class, may get targeted by your government for tax evasion or money laundering and thrown in prison in this crazy sovereign debt crisis that is coming. Also as people become wealthy for the first time, they tend to waste their money on prostitutes, whiskey, and other consumables (not to mention the healthcare costs that follow such behavior). Etc...


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 02:01:08 PM
Also BTC will not be used by billionaires only, that's stupid, people will demand changes so bitcoin cannot be used only by a handful of people on earth. If it takes UASF then UASF will happen so segwit + LN can happen and everyone can use bitcoin, additional blocksize increases will come too. Nobody will support the "billionares only blockchain", that's stupid.

Sorry you can't do anything to stop it:

...such nonsense as UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863995.msg18535859#msg18535859).

Cry and scream all you want. You are wasting your time fighting what is inevitable.

Soon you will realize this. Go ahead and try. My popcorn is laughing.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 02:20:10 PM
They will raise the transaction fees so high that your BTC isn't even enough to pay the transaction fee, so it will be impossible for you to spend them on chain.

What might that threshold be - 10 BTC, 100, 1000...?

I reckon base it on the percentage of total supply held and how that distributes within a typical power-law (Zipf's law) distribution.

I think you won't be able to hold on chain BTC unless you own at least 100 BTC and perhaps the threshold will be much higher. It depends how centralized is the control of the economy that is settled in Bitcoins. If it becomes centralized into 10 whales, they can make huge transactions with huge fees that block all other transactions.

At the point where there may be only a few million Bitcoin-holding entities, wouldn't anonymity be broken due to blockchain analysis methods combined with the reduced user base? Or would agreements be adhered to at the top, creating a glass ceiling barrier to the Bitcoin billionaire gentleman's club?

There are only ~2000 billionaires in the world. I think it will be a much smaller demographic than a few million, maybe 100,000.

They can mix their transactions with CoinJoin to obscure from the public (the jamming issue I pointed out to @gmaxwell won't be a problem for their club where everyone is known to each other). I don't think they will be allowed to obscure from each other. The elite want to know what is going on with their underlings.

Thus you can see how the all seeing eye takes form with Bitcoin and why I say it was created by the global elite and why I was curious what symbolic (even unwittingly) or actual role John Nash played in it.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: BillyBobZorton on April 11, 2017, 02:23:42 PM
Also BTC will not be used by billionaires only, that's stupid, people will demand changes so bitcoin cannot be used only by a handful of people on earth. If it takes UASF then UASF will happen so segwit + LN can happen and everyone can use bitcoin, additional blocksize increases will come too. Nobody will support the "billionares only blockchain", that's stupid.

Sorry you can't do anything to stop it:

...such nonsense as UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863995.msg18535859#msg18535859).

Cry and scream all you want. You are wasting your time fighting what is inevitable.

Soon you will realize this. Go ahead and try. My popcorn is laughing.

It's as easy as UASF + PoW change with a new solution such as randomly changing algorithm to avoid efficient ASIC stacking.

"BillionaireChain" used by 2,000 people on earth will be seen as a joke by the rest of the population and it will no longer be Bitcoin. Progress will move on.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: erikalui on April 11, 2017, 02:24:49 PM
With the price increase of bitcoins, there would be so many problems that would follow and the abuse of this currency would be on a rise. With more and more brands accepting bitcoins, it's value would be very high and this would make it inaccessible by common middle-class users. Nobody would afford to buy even 1 BTC then and this was not the original objective of BTC. The current price is just fine.

Tried to access the news article but it gives a 404 error.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: QuestionAuthority on April 11, 2017, 02:27:36 PM
I can see the price going that high by 2030 if a loaf of bread is $200,000.

The only thing that makes me question this analysis is the fact that he pulled bitcoins userbase numbers straight out of his ass. Daily transaction volume for the last few years certainly doesn't support his numbers.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 02:29:13 PM
You don't seem to understand the issue properly. With a constrained blocksize if the transactions that fill up that block are all $100 million transactions then they can pay very easily a $10,000 fee to keep your transactions off the blockchain. If BTC is worth $100,000 at that point and you have 10 BTC, you are not going to want to spend that many times at $10,000 per spend.

I don't understand that part of yours.

If they are transacting $100 million per block and bitcoin is at $100,000, then 1000 units of bitcoin will be involved each time.
For the whales to show their hands transacting 1000 units of bitcoin each time would be a huge giveaway to the public on how loop-sided is the blockchain.
How can they keep my transaction off the blockchain with them paying $10,000 fee? I will still get confirmation albeit maybe after an hour's wait. I don't mind the wait if my purchase is big, like buying a car or a house, instead of buying a cup of coffee.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Raize on April 11, 2017, 02:31:30 PM
I'm not sure if this Snapchat investor is doing some type of cycle analysis or not. But we are doing that over in hacknoid's thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1256918.0) about it. I have two models right now, but as far as the time element involved, they predict the current supercycle will end in 2019 (model 2) or 2020 (model 1). It'd be harder to gauge the next supercycle, but I wouldn't suspect it would start till mid-way through the 20s and would likely peak around 2032, meaning $500k/coin by 2030 might be considerably ambitious of a guesstimate.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: webtricks on April 11, 2017, 02:37:50 PM
Being Bitcoiner as well as optimist, I am too in motion that Bitcoin will jump high maybe $500k in coming years! Maybe not as he described but it is all possible!
Simple theory works here. Bitcoin prices increase with increase in demand. Demand when compared to previous years, increasing every next year. With more demand, more funds will be converted or kept in Bitcoin web. As a result of which its market cap is increasing day by day.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 02:39:27 PM
You don't seem to understand the issue properly. With a constrained blocksize if the transactions that fill up that block are all $100 million transactions then they can pay very easily a $10,000 fee to keep your transactions off the blockchain. If BTC is worth $100,000 at that point and you have 10 BTC, you are not going to want to spend that many times at $10,000 per spend.

I don't understand that part of yours.

If they are transacting $100 million per block and bitcoin is at $100,000, then 1000 units of bitcoin will be involved each time.
For the whales to show their hands transacting 1000 units of bitcoin each time would be a huge giveaway to the public on how loop-sided is the blockchain.
How can they keep my transaction off the blockchain with them paying $10,000 fee? I will still get confirmation albeit maybe after an hour's wait. I don't mind the wait if my purchase is big, like buying a car or a house, instead of buying a cup of coffee.

I did not write $100m per block. Rather I said per transaction. The block might contain say $10 billion or what ever.

They can fill up every 1 MB block, so your transaction never gets on any block ever.

You don't have to worry about this now. It will be process of increasing fees over the years.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 02:43:31 PM
Also BTC will not be used by billionaires only, that's stupid, people will demand changes so bitcoin cannot be used only by a handful of people on earth. If it takes UASF then UASF will happen so segwit + LN can happen and everyone can use bitcoin, additional blocksize increases will come too. Nobody will support the "billionares only blockchain", that's stupid.

Sorry you can't do anything to stop it:

...such nonsense as UASF (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863995.msg18535859#msg18535859).

Cry and scream all you want. You are wasting your time fighting what is inevitable.

Soon you will realize this. Go ahead and try. My popcorn is laughing.

It's as easy as UASF + PoW change with a new solution such as randomly changing algorithm to avoid efficient ASIC stacking.

"BillionaireChain" used by 2,000 people on earth will be seen as a joke by the rest of the population and it will no longer be Bitcoin. Progress will move on.

None of your democracy shenanigans will prosper. But feel free to lose all your wealth trying.

The opinion of the masses does not matter, if we presume that fungible money will remain supreme in the economy.

I have one alternative to offer which is the theory that the economy will bifurcate into fungible money driven tangible economy and a knowledge age economy in Inverse Commons. The latter is what my BitNet project is about. If I am correct, then that will be our only alternative.

But don't believe me. Please go waste your time and lose all your wealth. The smart money is starting to recognize my expertise. Please do your own due diligence.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 02:56:20 PM
I did not write $100m per block. Rather I said per transaction. The block might contain say $10 billion or what ever.

They can fill up every 1 MB block, so your transaction never gets on any block ever.

You don't have to worry about this now. It will be process of increasing fees over the years.

Well, I rarely do any transaction so I have not much knowledge how this works in detail.
In case I do make a transaction when fee is at $10,000, won't I still get confirmation even if I choose to pay zero fee?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 02:58:47 PM
I did not write $100m per block. Rather I said per transaction. The block might contain say $10 billion or what ever.

They can fill up every 1 MB block, so your transaction never gets on any block ever.

You don't have to worry about this now. It will be process of increasing fees over the years.

Well, I rarely do any transaction so I have not much knowledge how this works in detail.
In case I do make a transaction when fee is at $10,000, won't I still get confirmation even if I choose to pay zero fee?

You'll sell before the fee gets too high. So don't worry about it. I know your interest in BTC is only for the price rise.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 03:02:24 PM
And assuming I can't get my transaction into the block due to $10,000 fee, I would need to dump my bitcoin for the alts.
And I won't be the only one doing that.
A lot will dump their bitcoins for the alts.
And those buying from us selling our bitcoins will also know that unless they are the power brokers, they will also face the same issue we are facing (i.e. transaction not confirmed).
Thus if the ones buying from us are just like us, then the price of bitcoin vs alts will fall to compensate for the risk, which I don't think serves the interest of the power brokers.
To solve that, the power brokers need to be the ones buying.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 03:03:57 PM
You'll sell before the fee gets too high. So don't worry about it. I know your interest in BTC is only for the price rise.

Let's say I won't be selling most of it, but only a little, will I still get confirmation even with zero fee, as long as I am willing to wait for hours?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: mr.mister on April 11, 2017, 04:32:01 PM
And assuming I can't get my transaction into the block due to $10,000 fee, I would need to dump my bitcoin for the alts.
And I won't be the only one doing that.
A lot will dump their bitcoins for the alts.
And those buying from us selling our bitcoins will also know that unless they are the power brokers, they will also face the same issue we are facing (i.e. transaction not confirmed).
Thus if the ones buying from us are just like us, then the price of bitcoin vs alts will fall to compensate for the risk, which I don't think serves the interest of the power brokers.
To solve that, the power brokers need to be the ones buying.

$10,000 fee? Now that's nonsense.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 04:48:28 PM
$10,000 fee? Now that's nonsense.

wat did ya sayyyyy....?


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: iamnotback on April 11, 2017, 04:52:41 PM
You'll sell before the fee gets too high. So don't worry about it. I know your interest in BTC is only for the price rise.

Let's say I won't be selling most of it, but only a little, will I still get confirmation even with zero fee, as long as I am willing to wait for hours?

No you will never get a confirmation if you don't pay the prevailing fee when blocks become totally constrained. Fees will rise over the years, so you'll know when you need to sell.

@mr.mister is on my Ignore list because he is an idiot troll.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 04:56:27 PM
No you will never get a confirmation if you don't pay the prevailing fee when blocks become totally constrained. Fees will rise over the years, so you'll know when you need to sell.

We will see about that.
I would not be surprised if that will be the outcome as I don't believe the rothschilds (bunch of assholes) are doing us a favor with their cryptos.

It feels shit to have to transit to alts, but I believe someday even if that outcome never materialize (high fee) I will still quit this crypto stuff, because I sincerely believe bitcoin is the mark of the beast (just my personal belief) and I do not favor the money god at the expense of my real God.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Pab on April 11, 2017, 04:57:05 PM
At 2030 USD will be no more global currency and btc who knows whatwill happen with btc,before Mt Gox crash i ve been reading 1btc 1 mln usd,but if Russia will legelalise btc next year price will be above 2k usd


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: cr1776 on April 11, 2017, 04:57:37 PM
So about a 400 x rise  (400 * $1220) in 14 years.  Bitcoin has done much more than that in the last 8 years.  Even in the last 5-6 years it has grown more than that.  So while it is purely speculation, it is entirely possible for it to happen.

Likely to happen, who knows, possible, for sure.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: LoyceV on April 11, 2017, 05:12:19 PM
I'm however not sure about the part where he said "Bitcoin's user network grew from 120,000 users in 2013 to 6.5 million users in 2017" as there is no way to calculate the userbase of bitcoin. Despite all that, what are your thoughts?
Let's assume this is true, and see what that means: The last 4 Blocks processed 1603 + 1935 + 1047 + 1799 transactions. I'll take this as average: 1596 transactions every 10 minutes. That gives 229,824 transactions per day.
Now let's assume the best-case scenario, in which transactions are evenly spread out between users. That means these 6.5 million users each make 1 transaction in 28 days.
This is of course not realistic: active users make much more transactions, which means the large majority of less-active users take manu months between transactions. The assumption of 61 times more users by 2030 would lead to 1 transaction per user in 5 years at current block size.

Is it realistic to call Person X a Bitcoin user, if he made 1 transaction in 2016? I don't think so. I traveled by train once in 2016, that doesn't make me a train user.
The 50-fold increase in users shows the scaling problem again: prices can't grow as long as users can't make more transactions.

Now back to the catchy topic title: if this is his expectation, did he invest most of his wealth in Bitcoin? The article doesn't mention anything about his own personal holdings.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 11, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
If you want to see an astronomical increase in bitcoin adoption, globally, among the merchants, then you need a "bank" that can readily accept any amount of bitcoins for fiat.

This will allay the fear of bitcoin price volatility entirely.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: bryant.coleman on April 11, 2017, 05:22:04 PM
An exchange rate of $500,000 per coin seems quite unreasonable (that would mean a market cap of close to $10 trillion, which is 5 times the current market capitalization of the United States Dollar banknotes/coins). But he is not talking about the immediate future. He is talking about 2030, and we can't predict what will happen by then.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: monsanto on April 11, 2017, 05:47:55 PM
An exchange rate of $500,000 per coin seems quite unreasonable (that would mean a market cap of close to $10 trillion, which is 5 times the current market capitalization of the United States Dollar banknotes/coins). But he is not talking about the immediate future. He is talking about 2030, and we can't predict what will happen by then.

It's possible, but only if the dollar becomes basically worthless. I don't see btc becoming worth $500,000 with anything near current dollar buying value. Unless you are willing to entertain ideas like $100,000 litecoins. You think there are a lot of alt coins now, if that ever happened all of humanity would die in the ensuing tsunami of shit coins that would follow such a rise. The fact that the snapchat guy thinks this could happen is somewhat comforting though, as it shows very successful investors can be just as insane as anyone else.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: BillyBobZorton on April 12, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
You'll sell before the fee gets too high. So don't worry about it. I know your interest in BTC is only for the price rise.

Let's say I won't be selling most of it, but only a little, will I still get confirmation even with zero fee, as long as I am willing to wait for hours?

No you will never get a confirmation if you don't pay the prevailing fee when blocks become totally constrained. Fees will rise over the years, so you'll know when you need to sell.

@mr.mister is on my Ignore list because he is an idiot troll.

You are saying bitcoin can reach $500,000, as the snapchat investor said, that's 12 years from now according to his prediction.

So you are saying that in 12 years fees still will not be high enough to sell?

Who is the idiot that is going to sell before $500,000 regardless how prohibitive fees are?



Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: Dorky on April 12, 2017, 03:13:19 PM
You are saying bitcoin can reach $500,000, as the snapchat investor said, that's 12 years from now according to his prediction.

So you are saying that in 12 years fees still will not be high enough to sell?

Who is the idiot that is going to sell before $500,000 regardless how prohibitive fees are?

Just my opinion, the most financially valid fee structure is the one where it is based on certain % of the transaction value involved.

For example, if transaction is $1,000, the fee will be $1.
And if transaction is $1,000,000, the fee will be $1,000.
0.1% in both cases.
Of course there will be a floor, like minimum fee per transaction, but it should not be outrageous, like minimum fee of $100.
Even then, the price of bitcoin per unit should commensurate with the fee charged.
If the minimum fee is $100, then the price of bitcoin should be $100,000, or something like that.
And that minimum fee of $100 will prompt people to spend in big amount.

Just my opinion.


Title: Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000
Post by: The_Dark_Knight on April 12, 2017, 03:40:44 PM
I don't know about $500,000 in 14 years....

It means the Bitcoin goes up by $100USD (average) every single day for nearly 14 years, with no breaks like Christmas or Kwanzaa. Even the last 8 years, Bitcoin *only* did approx 50 cents per day to go from zero to $1200USD.

Even the highest stock Berkshire Hathaway only did $24 per day increase (average) sustained over 27 years. Bitcoin would have to be quadruple the performance of BRK.A

Did anything else ever go up this much over such a long period?

It is unlikely but many things could happen to make bitcoin get closer o that price for example hyperinflation may strike us in the next decade and if it does reaching that price may not be out of the question or we may even reach an even greater price.