Bitcoin Forum

I have repeatedly been reporting scammers on the forum... seems nothing happens about them.

For example, user Haydenwaves has over 60 posts, a large percentage of them advertising the scam site Bitprotection.info, and right now, all of them are advertising it because he has an ad in his signature.

But when I click "report to moderator"... seems I'm wasting my time.

Please do not make claims for which you have no clue about thank you!

+1

Regardless if bitprotection is legit or not. There's still plenty of other bull**** that happens on these forums that moderators do absolutely nothing about.

Kokjo - I do agree there is a bit of nonsense that does happen on this forum. I try to contribute as much as I can without coming across as spammy! :)

We are open to suggestion. Like what?

spam and scam is 2 different words. :D

speaking of which I need to change my sig, I think somebody killed it. LOL xD

Go to your profile and disable the display of forum signatures. Only way to keep sane, unless you like adblocking every grotesque banner.

It saddens me, as most of the banners look like early 90's spamvertising. Doesn't really help us at all.

A wallet backup service claiming to offer "insurance" offered by an anonymous person who can be contacted only by a webmail address is a prima facie scam.  Prior versions of this website, such as the one present when I made the original post in June, claimed that sending him your wallet file actually protects you from theft, and offered to insure the wallet against any kind of theft.  Such a claim is ridiculous and should be an obvious red flag.

Careful. If you complain too much, you might become a mod.

I can't argue with that!

What is the difference between:

• A service provided by a stranger on the Internet which holds on to my wallet.dat and promises not to do anything naughty with it.
• A service provided by a stranger on the Internet which sends me a new printed wallet.dat and promises to delete any temporary copies they might have of it.
• My bank, which asks me to hand them all my money and assures me that it'll always be there when I want it back.

Ok, my bank at least has a local brick and mortar branch for me to burn down if they steal my money, but otherwise I don't see how any one of those items screams "SCAM!" any more than the others. They all rely on trusting strangers with my money.

Personally, I do not presently have any reason to want to hand somebody else my wallet.dat for safekeeping, because I think I can can protect it well enough myself. Still, it seems interesting to me to see a claim that a hold-on-to-your-wallet service must be a scam, coming from somebody who asks me to give them money in order to obtain a wallet.dat that they had access to. I think I'll pass on both services.

Look up FDIC.

Good point. So, I'll revise my question: How is "I'll hold your wallet.dat for security, and I promise not to spend your money" any more obviously a scam than "I'll give you a new wallet.dat for security, and I promise not to keep a copy"?

P.S.: Speaking of moderation, shouldn't this thread be in Meta?  ;)

There's not a huge difference.  I could theoretically scam my customers.  But in my case, I have identified myself IRL, and people buy paper wallets to meet a real need, and I can get my ass kicked if I scam. Sending your wallet to anonymous doesn't serve any useful purpose, you may as well stick it in a drawer, and his claim that sending him your wallet protects you from theft (which has since vanished from his site) ought to raise a brow. If he steals your coin, no ass to kick, your maximum recourse is to send him angry email.

Good point. Handing control of your money to somebody else requires trust, and trust is fundamentally given with the understanding that an ass-kicking (whether literal or figurative) may result if it's violated.

You can contact me anyway you want what are you talking about ? How can you claim something is a scam with no evidence?   Where does it say it prevents theft ?  Never claimed it so don't claim something that isn't true ...I'll be waiting for you produce evidence this is a scam otherwise your creditably is 0 on this matter ...

Agreed. There is no doubt there will have to be trust at some point. Figured the best way was to say if anything happens we can back it up or as you say an ass-kicking!

Btw: your service is a scam also ..going to let people know its a scam ... how can you trust postal mail  and how do we know its going to you?  

This is factually untrue "100% immune to hackers, trojans, computer crashing,"    such claims are ridiculous and should be obvious red flags for  anyone thinks about a service like this.

Thanks for being fair-minded and this service isn't for everyone but could be beneficial to people who are just starting out in bitcoins and don't know how to do all the necessary steps to protect their wallets. Obviously, if we are a "scam" then there should be plenty of people who can come forward to say we are - do you see any ?   People are to trigger happy to start calling people a scam!  :-[

It seems to me that one of the great advantages of the near-instantaneous worldwide communication that we now enjoy on the Internet is that it is much, much harder to keep a scam going against people who make an effort to educate themselves. Scams now either prey on the utterly ignorant, or they're one-shot deals. As you point out, if you were to try scamming anybody on this board, there's already a pot of boiling tar and a sack of feathers at the ready! ;)

How did you plan on insuring people against thefts from their wallet that you didn't cause, as your site appeared to suggest last month?


They arrive in security envelopes with a fingerprint.  It's hard to tamper without leaving evidence.  I'm moving up to using holograms soon, but those are a ways out.  Anyone who doubts my identity is welcome to look me up, call me, write me at my company e-mail, as well as I'm able to produce valid PDF and PGP signatures based on my established identity.


They are hackerproof and trojanproof because they were produced on a computer that has never had a network connection and then the media was securely erased.  Hackers and trojans can get at your files, but not on an airgapped computer, and they also can't read a piece of paper sitting in your drawer or your safe.  What's ridiculous about that?

Multi-quote; use it, holmes...or are you trying to boost your post count so some poor soul may be naive enough to trust you and become your first customer?

So, if it's not a scam, what does your service do to protect the wallet more than say, hitting the wallet.dat with truecrypt and putting said USB drive in a drawer? Cause it sounds like a scam. I would not hand my cash to a stranger on a promise that he'd hold onto it. Why in the hell would I do it with my autism kroners?

"Multi-quote; use it, holmes...or are you trying to boost your post count so some poor soul may be naive enough to trust you and become your first customer?

So, if it's not a scam, what does your service do to protect the wallet more than say, hitting the wallet.dat with truecrypt and putting said USB drive in a drawer? Cause it sounds like a scam. I would not hand my cash to a stranger on a promise that he'd hold onto it. Why in the hell would I do it with my autism kroners?"


Not everyone wants to go through all the steps of truecrypting it is a huge hassle securing a wallet.dat. I'm not claiming this is perfect for everyone so  if you know what you are doing by all means go ahead run the risk of losing your wallet not a problem. A online wallet is no different I mean look at mybitcoin  someone here entrusted them at some point ?

LOL! This is hilarious. you have just stated the *perfect* reason not to trust your service *either*. You could easily be the same guy posting under a new name.

"How did you plan on insuring people against thefts from their wallet that you didn't cause, as your site appeared to suggest last month?"

Obviously, we changed that. There would be noway to know if someone just caused the theft to get reimbursed.

"They arrive in security envelopes with a fingerprint.  It's hard to tamper without leaving evidence.  I'm moving up to using holograms soon, but those are a ways out.  Anyone who doubts my identity is welcome to look me up, call me, write me at my company e-mail,  as well as I'm able to produce valid PDF and PGP signatures based on my established identity."

Same anyone that doubts my identity can call me , write me or email me  -  I can easily establish PGB signatures and valid PDF also. The difference is I didn't come out calling you a scam without any evidence because I thought we were all adults here.

"They are hackerproof and trojanproof because they were produced on a computer that has never had a network connection and then the media was securely erased.  Hackers and trojans can get at your files, but not on an airgapped computer,  and they also can't read a piece of paper sitting in your drawer or your safe.  What's ridiculous about that?"

Everything is hackable and not trojan proof you should know that if your going to indulge into this kind of service. The keys can easily be obtained from your "paper system"  and anything your doing regarding "media was securely erased" is a load of crap. NOTHING is EVER fully erased on computers or any other form of media.

There has been ZERO people here claiming fraud on my part so please don't go around spouting stuff that you have no evidence of.

No, I'm not the owner of Mybitcoin  :o  It's perfectly fine you don't have to trust my service as I stated it isn't perfect for everyone but at some point someone trusted mybitcoin  at some point right ? Have to start somewhere :)

Regular quote; use it correctly, holmes. Sorry...I am not trying to rag on you, but you set your self up too well.

No service is for everyone. Who is your service for? You have got to be cognizant of the fact that your proposal reeks of scam on every level, yet nothing you say really claims anything to the contrary. What scenario would sending your untraceable cash to a stranger be a good idea, and paying him $20 for the pleasure to boot.

BTW, I am now accepting people's gold. I will stuff it between my mattress and box-spring and maybe give it back to you when you ask, all for the low low price of $50USD per kilo.


Who wants to use it? Why? Pray, tell us.

Not a problem I guess I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "multi-quotes" and proper format lol   ...

The service is for anyone who doesn't want to go through 30 + steps to protect their wallet. By giving a copy of the wallet.dat you keep one and you send one  ( I know gasp!) we have one copy in case anything happens to it . The hope was people entrust us because IF ANYTHING were to happen to the wallet we can compensate it monetarily speaking. Obviously, they can't claim we lost/erased it because we can just say ok here is a copy of it.  Yes, this is a big leap forward I know but a service like this would last about 2 seconds if we are were doing nefarious things with it. What would be the point of doing that ?  Ok, if you lost my  gold can you repay me the value of it ? We can't prevent theft of coins but at least we can give some reassurance if you loose your wallet there is a copy safely tucked away.

It's all fair questions   :)

edit: I'll make an official thread on this forum shortly to answer questions + Bruce Wagner ( onlyonetv.com) has also reached out to me  :)

"It seems to me that one of the great advantages of the near-instantaneous worldwide communication that we now enjoy on the Internet is that it is much, much harder to keep a scam going against people who make an effort to educate themselves. Scams now either prey on the utterly ignorant, or they're one-shot deals. As you point out, if you were to try scamming anybody on this board, there's already a pot of boiling tar and a sack of feathers at the ready! ;)"

This doesn't sound fun at all!    "there's already a pot of boiling tar and a sack of feathers at the ready! ;)"  ;)

Neither the paper wallet service nor the wallet.dat protection service is useful to me, since I have the technical savvy to generate a wallet.dat on my own air-gapped computer, stick it in my safe, surround it with my dogs, and guard it with my own shotgun. I could even wear overalls and holler "git off mah land!" while I did it, although I'd have to buy some overalls (anybody selling overalls for BTC?). I say all this merely to establish my credentials as an uninvolved outside observer, posting my outside observations from my easy chair on Saturday evening because I can't think of anything more interesting to do at the moment. I can see how either service might appeal to somebody less well-endowed with technical savvy, safes, dogs or shotguns than I am. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

Ok, holograms and fingerprints are neat, but at best they help verify that the postman (excuse me: postperson) didn't secretly copy down the wallet.dat before delivering it to me. I have nothing but the vendor's fine word that the wallet.dat was generated on an air-gapped computer. It's reassuring that he has offered up his ass for kicking in case of a scam, but I also have only his fine word that the name and address provided are really his own, and not those of a random stranger, or perhaps an ex boss whose ass is chronically under-kicked. PGP keys? Yeah, I can make those, too. They prove that all of the communications I receive that are signed with them originated from somebody who has access to a particular secret key; they don't prove the real identity of anybody unless I vet them somehow, such as by showing up unannounced at the provided address and having whoever is there offer me the matching key fingerprint, and perhaps a nice mint julep.

Don't worry, I'm not showing up at anybody's doorstep and demanding PGP fingerprints and refreshing beverages. And no, that's not a cauldron of boiling tar in the back of my pickup truck; it's an old desk that my employer was happy for me to haul away a couple weeks ago, and I've been too lazy to unload it yet.

My point is just that as a random dude on the Intarwebz, and absent any actual evidence of naughtiness, I see no difference at all in my perceived risk of fraud from either of the vendors in question in this thread. Some words on the screen of my iPad tell me that one stranger promises to make my wallet on an air-gapped computer rather than a PC at the public library, and some other words on the screen of my iPad tell me that another stranger promises to lock my USB thumb drive in his safe rather than hanging it from the rear-view mirror of his convertible next to the dream catcher. Unless there is some real evidence of a scam going on, neither party seems to have any basis to call the other a likely scammer. I just don't see any fundamental difference in the trust model of either service under discussion here, as perceived by a person who doesn't personally know either of the vendors.

I think the inability to point out one single advantageous scenario for the vendor's product reeks of amateur with undertones of scam.

I read your reports, but the service hasn't been proven to be a scam, so I will not delete non-spam links to it.

Quoted for emphasis. I've had to delete some of this spam in the past, so be sure to keep things on-topic.

bitprotection, frankly you're coming off as immature and unprofessional in all of your responses in this thread.

I would never entrust my wallet to a service like yours in any case, but certainly not in the case where that service's representative is unable to respond in a calm, cool and professional manner.

I'd suggest everyone stay away from this service.

Have you had a service called a "scam" before and let it go ?

I didn't think so.

The inability to read isn't my fault ...

Well, you are operating a business... You'd think you could spare a moment to clarify who might need your service and for what reason. Fuckwit.

Clearly you are to stupid to see I've already explained it and how is that my fault?

So, if I understand this correctly, the person who would use your service is a rube who "doesn't want to go through 30+ steps to protect their wallet", yet has the proficiency to both use bitcoin and backup the wallet.dat to a flashdrive, which they will send to you to hang on to for some yearly fee. So what does your service have to offer over say, a drawer, or perhaps a shelf, save the liability of trusting some inarticulate stranger?

PS - I went to the store. I bought two apples. They cost too much.