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So Recently Elon Musk announced the Open AI as we know, If you don't know about "Open AI" just google it, It is basically a bot which learns from visual input and becomes a master at doing whatever it is trained on(Given enought time), It can master any Atari game and can even predict stock prices by given it the proper data, so i was wondering what if somebody trains it on Poker or Dice game? It will be the perfect player, far better than the human and could probably make websites go bankrupt, as there is no defeating to an AI. From what i am seeing the future will be AI's Playing against each other. The person who will have a better AI player will win the most bets, Let me know what do you think about it.

Edit:

Interesting reads on AI:
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/mystery-ai-just-crushed-best-human-players-poker/

Another interesting read:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/11/16137388/dota-2-dendi-open-ai-elon-musk

Poker is a game of incomplete information. You could not train it. At least the Open AI. But you could always make a custom poker bot based on custom programming (usually Python and some open NN kits) to explore your opponent tendencies.

Dice roll doesn't have a memory. Nothing for training here. The is no 'perfect player' for dice. There is a house edge.

same is the case with stock trading, The information is incomplete, But the guesses are quite right. Plus we humans tend to leave out patterns and we can't process thousands of games to find a pattern, That's where the bot is good at, Also The Open AI showed many exploits in the atari games which humans did not think of. So saying it won't work before even trying doesn't proves anything.

that's right mate this type of AI can only prove his uses if we will try it out by our self as its been created to help human being to take advantage of artificial knowledge I'm not saying it can be accurate but it can give some advantages if uses properly.

I think it could work for training poker. There are actually a poker AI that is beating all the pros, and everyone is talking about it. But to train it for dice, then that is just a waste of time. There is no way to beat dice or any of those casino games, so it would only manage to lose the house edge on the long run. There is nothing else it could possibly do.

From what I have read is if we dont change our nounce after each bet, we can lose alot more. The game becomes biased for the house. I was thinking may be the open AI could make use of it. As for poker yes. Any skill game can be mastered by open AI.

I don't know. I don't think it should happen that way. If it is random, then everything stays the same, either you change you nouce, seed or anything like that. It's not suppose to matter, if the casino are fair.

This is definitely advancement in technology but the issue here is that for bots to work on any site, the site must allow it and in this case when AI is winning all the time due to its immense abilities, then I see them installing anti AI systems which might make it less effective and by so  doing, users will discontinue its services. Aside that, to deploy AI at this time would be very expensive for an individual to be able to afford.

AI as it exists in this day and age, works best in deterministic areas where all data affecting the outcome of an event can be quantified, measured and defined to some degree.

An AI neural net trained to be good at an atari game where all in-game variables can be measured is very different from skill at trading stocks or poker.

In a video game, all variables can be measured & quantified. Simple atari games essentially execute in a digital sandbox.

With poker and stock markets there are many factors and variables which are immeasurable & unquantifiable.

Attempting to predict poker or stock markets is partially non-deterministic similar to predicting the outcome of the superbowl or a sports event.

AI and computers can measure deterministic variables like wind speed, temperature, points scored, accuracy %.

But when people are involved and there are variables like attempting to measure the size of someone's heart, the human spirit, determination, will, the potential for people to make good or bad decisions, imagination. It can be extremely difficult for an AI to measure those things which would contribute to it lacking accuracy.

For an AI to be good at poker or stock markets would require a quantum leap in AI technology.

As i developer i know it will take me around a day or two to go through the documentation of it. But from what i have seen from the videos. It is already ready to use. You just need to know python and reward the AI accordingly. I think it shouldn't take more than a week to modify a bit. To train it on lets say 100k games, would take around a month or so i think, but as for websites detecting if it's a bot or a human player, that's almost impossible. There are many frameworks like selenium which make it look like its a Normal user, it will be quiet hard to keep them out, even if they implement a captcha system.. The bot can even learn how to solve a captcha in no time.


The future of gambling is interesting with all these AIs coming out. I will see what i can do for this.

Look at google go ai, there are millions upon millions of moves, the portability of each move is very low and yet it has managed to beat the best of us. I don't think we need a quantum leap for just poker and stock predictions. There are bots which are already predicting the stock prices.

I would like to see an online poker tournament for bot makers.  And FYI some of them don't do it mostly to cheat or make money.  They're mostly in it for the pursuit of science.

The tournament part sounds interesting, but i don't think someone working on an AI for poker won't use it to make profits, human's don't work that way mate.. Things are about to get interesting. The rise of AI may eventually lead to the end of many online gambling games.

You'll be surprised.  The people you mostly see who use bots are the script kiddies.  They can't code and all they care about is learn how to use the bot and they can't even come up with their own programming for their bots.  The people who actually provide the source code for these bots are there for the science.  They want to push AI forward and what better way to test their bot than make it play poker.

It works in trading because trading is human activity, and people have patterns which can be used by technical analysis. The bot can buy if the price have fallen to quickly or sell if it jumped to quickly. But in gambling there's no human operators, only random number generators, the only thing a bot can do is to try to find some imperfection in it, but if there is no such or if it's smaller than the house edge, then the bot is going to be useless. Gambling is a very simple thing, and simple things can't be cracked.

Update: Well its about time, Saw this page being advertised on Facebook, These people are funding people to code the Best AI for poker. They have already given out a 3d printer to one of the winners. Well the things are about to get interesting. Future of gambling is in AI's hand. Would love to hear Your thoughts on this.

Facebook Page Link: https://www.facebook.com/AIGamingCom/
website link: http://beta.aigaming.com

Checkers/chess/go programs brute force calculate every possible move. A question can be raised whether that represents true artificial intelligence. A go program calculates every move then uses an algorithm to estimate which move is the best, not unlike a coin sorter which evaluates each coin size to sort pennies from nickels and dimes.

Over the past 50 years, there hasn't been much evolution in terms of artificial intelligence software. All gains have come from hardware advancing via moore's law to a point where programs can calculate every possible move in checkers/chess/go within a reasonably short time.

There's no doubt computer programs (which probably shouldn't be called artificial intelligence) are very good at evaluating massive numbers of against some preset criteria. It shouldn't be confused with true artificial intelligence though.

I cant think off such thing that it would be possible to be trained of knowing gambling that it has really a random outputs which no robot or AI can able to compute it for sure. Probabilities might be possible to be seen but chances or luck wont really be practiced. There are skills or instincts which do human have which AI dont have. Theres still difference and that perfect player doesnt really exist at all.

Talking about dice or other games, no any skill or strategy will work so I don't think using AI for this will make any difference. On the other hand yes card games like poker requires some skill and strategy but majority of time luck plays an important role, so even if AI will play poker or other card games than impact might be way lower than what we might speculate.

It seems you are still a newbie at gambling to even think like this. Gambling can never be learned by an AI, even if it does it cannot counteract the effects of randomness. Can an AI predict the future? If it can then it would win the dice games. If there was a fixed strategy in gambling, then there would have been super rich people from just gambling and all the casinos will go down.

I disagree with that. Indeed gambling is a random event, for example dice is random if it is truly dice. The problem is a computer can never ever pick a random number. It doesn't have that ability since it has no consciousness. So what it does is "simulate randomness." It uses plenty of variables and with the slightest amount of change the outcomes would be so different from one another.

That said, if this Open AI would learn how the computer generates random numbers, then it can predict the outcomes of the game.

That AI bot will work someday but it's not the time. Bot will only work when it see any pattern and in probably there is no pattern even once in 1m rolls can come in first 10k. So it can win upto a point but can't win always.

I think ai can be trained to play only skill based games, would be interesting to see how they play against us(humans)and against other ai. in luck games, it's ai vs true randomness, who do you think will win?

The AI will beat anyone on any game if it is that smart. Remember that the chess computer back when computers are still in its infancy defeated a lot of chess masters. Likely the bot will be able to beat humans in poker. Also remember, the computer can make a damn good poker face. Then it can also read our facial reactions even on poker face.

Exactly! Thank you for sharing this, This is what i was trying to explain earlier, The Computer randomness is "Fake" it isn't true randomness, which can be exploited by a well trained AI.

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Along with being well trained at poker, imagine being well trained on facial expression too, That would be the dream Bot for sure!

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As for many people, You have missed out my update! Quoting it again here!

Just read this article.
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/mystery-ai-just-crushed-best-human-players-poker/

There's already ai bot that can beat anyone in poker!

Thank you for sharing this, didn't know about this article, it is an interesting read and the results are amazing! 1.7 million dollars in winning that's huge, plus the way AI reacted to their moves was totally impressive! The future of gambling is now in ai's hands for sure! Don't know about how casinos will react to this, i think they may just ban the AI players which i think will be a loss for technology but if they don't, we will lose another beautiful game.

I think even half of the people that gambles, tried gambling, or think about gambling know that the randomness of the rolls in online gambling are all "not really random." Like what I said, I it is just simulated random since computers can't really think let alone think of a random number.

About your update, I think it would happen. I think AIs will rule the world and the movies "The Matrix", "The Terminator" and "iRobot" will come true. Just a matter of time. So getting news about a gambling robot, is nothing surprising. And to be honest, there are already poker bots out there. Have you played an offline poker game on your phone? Don't thus games have AIs already? They might be stupid poker players right now, but wait a few years.

very impressive and i dont have any idea that this really exist thinking that those are just fake one who just wanted to attract investors
but with this article it shows that ai is for real and how the house will change pace about this, will see how they will handle ai bot.

We, human have created computers and as far as artificial intelligence bots being used to play games are concerned, there is no doubt that they can calculate all possible moves and select the best option in very short time.

But I believe in the strength of human brains which is center of genuine intelligence and where is the fun if bots will be used to play for us ?

Well i have to agree we have created these AI bots, but we don't have the amount of computing power at our hand every single second as compared to a pc. Yes there won't be fun anymore, but a bot making millions for me sounds more fun than me playing and losing my bankroll.

If you take some simple game like Dice, there' very little attack surface, even for AI. But there's one common thing for any online gambling site - random number generator. Successful attack on casino's random number generator can allow attacker to get edge for his bets, or even predict outcomes with 100% certainty if RNG got completely broken. It's possible to do it even now, but maybe new AI methods can do it even more efficiently, so casino operators should be cautious of this threat.

There is nothing like magic in this world. everything depends upon how far we can observe predict and analyze. In dice or other such games, its not like that the players play around without giving a thought.

Before making even little decisions like , people think whether they realize it or not. Our brain keeps on thinking and making decisions without us realizing most of them. Nothing is purely luck based. May be I am wrong but I believe AI in this field will also get the winner's tag.

Well its your own point of view and theres nothing wrong with that we cant be sure if AI would really have the chance on making patters on completely random games like dice.I cant think of that you can possible outmatch the house even that open ai gambling bot because hashes are random computing would really be somehow senseless.

Yeah! who wouldn't want a bot that makes millions, i would love to have one too lol. but what would happen if ai bot competes with another ai bot(both well/equally trained)? who'll win? winning eventually will come down to luck, right?

Yes, if the two bots playing have the same skills and AI only luck can decide the game result.
They don't have emotions, so none of them will become nervous during the game, what could affect the result.

Wrong, There is no luck with AI, it comes down to how well the AI is trained, AI takes different paths and learns the most effective paths, So when 2 AI will battle off each other, It will come down to which AI has been trained more, Which has more experience, Which has been in more different situations, To simple user it may sound like luck, but it isn't, its machine learning, The Machine which will take the best path for each turn and will win in the end.

Another big news coming in from the dota 2 internationals, OpenAi has officially beaten the top players in the world, in 1v1 matches, it has beaten sumail many other dota 2 players.

The Ai bot was given zero input from the team, it learned from playing against another copy of itself and currently only works in 1v1, you can read more details about it
here:   https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/11/16137388/dota-2-dendi-open-ai-elon-musk

The next big thing is here! AI is the future period!

Didn't you understand the example says about two AIs with the same lvl? It's not a real situation, it's a supposition. Two identical robots playing one against other. Only luck can decide it, depending the sequence of movements each one will make in game.

well its a hypothetical scenario which is unlikely to happen, but i agree if the same AI bot battles off its counterpart, The Luck factor will come in but as i said that is extremely unlikely to happen, You won't be renting your AI bot to your Opponent would you? Even the companies who will sell these bots in the future, will train them differently and then the rest will be on the owner, how he gambles with it and so on.

Check out this new project about AI on the blockchain: Distributed Decentralized Artificial Intelligence Framework for DApps
https://medium.com/@chainintel/distributed-decentralized-artificial-intelligence-framework-for-dapps-75fefdc554c5

The team is from MIT and Harvard with great experience in ML and AI.

Luck has nothing to do again here. It will likely play the same game over and over again since two identical robots will never be able to generate anything random. They have a fixed pattern and if they play again and again, the results would be the same. Assuming this is a game like chess. But if there would be a factor like shuffling cards and then that would be different. It will now depend on the draw, but luck is again nothing, it's just the statistics of things.

Smells some ICO here eh? You just saw the topic regarding about AI and you quickly introduced it here on gambling section. But that project looks interesting if the devs are legit with that credentials. I will try to do some research on it and invest if I found something interesting on that project, But always remember that be on right section for ICO promotion. ;)

I think they won't open AI gambling Bot, because AI Bot is still under control of some coders or programers . So it seems like the result of this contest still can be cheated. It needs more information and make sure everything is clear to open gambling.

Don't look forward to it.  If it's an ICO, it's 99% a scam.  The real AI research labs for artificial intelligence is backed by big monied companies.  Whatever they discover and create would really prove valuable.

If an ICO makes a breakthrough in AI I would laugh my ass off because I may have woken up in the Bizzaro world.  :D

This is Bitcointalk and I think that's pretty much the same thing as Bizzaro world. I share your scepticism here but there is a very remote possibility that they have tried to get interest from mainstream tech industry or funding via conventional venture capital means and failed. A poker playing bot might be a bit of a hard sell considering the likelihood it may not be successful.

Machine Learning, Neural Networks and other AI related terms, these breakthrough are still into development, decades of research and developments putting a possibility to beat human skills and wisdom.Having an AI or Bot in Gambling is still possible by feeding million of data like events,patterns,motion analysis,DEJAVUs but it needs massive data centers and servers to perform that task, the bottomline is the excitement and the thrills , FUDs and other mix motions is gone and it could be boring when gambling are played by the machines. we could become an spectator and not a player after all.

Well there would come a time that those scifi movies will come true. Imagine a world like terminator, I-robot, and the matrix. Those are possible once we develop a super smart learning computer. Gambling would be the least of its problem when it happens for sure. Gambling would just be a simple task for a sophisticated AI. Though I am not sure if we would see it in our lifetime. It will likely take a whole lot of time.

No doubt, AI is a growing field and the funniest thing about it is the vision of Elon Musk regarding AI. We are struggling day and night for improving AI and the guy says that this world will end by the robot wars. Personally, I don't like AI replacing everything. There won't be much fun indeed.