Bitcoin Forum

Official announcement on this board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193519.0 Time: 05:30:04 PM

Announcement: 17:30:04
First Block mined: 17:32:10 (Difficulty 0.00) (Reward 1 Bitbar per block)
First Hundred blocks: 17:33:24
First 200 blocks: 17:36:16
First 300 blocks: 17:39:42
First Thousand blocks: 18:01:22
First 2000 blocks: 18:40:45 (Difficulty 0.012) (Reward 0.528202 per block)
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Current Block 6000 (Difficulty 15.291) (Reward 0.164687 per block)

So from the time that it was announced to the time someone has time to read the announcement, download the client and configure the .config you need at least 15 minutes, by that time 500 Bitbar were already in the hands of the creator and the people that was aware before the announcement.

Now take into account that the reward is rapidly decreasing, the "conveniently ready miners" are hoarding a huge ammount of bitbars which were easily mined right after the announcement:

Here's one of said wallets:

http://btb.cryptocoinexplorer.com/address/BCJ49q7DHd4sCzwiQ1FDmTx7saxV7fDqX8

Well look on the bright side, after the coin fades into obscurity and the difficulty drops back to zero, you'll be able to mine all you want.

I pity you who missed the boat, It took me less than 2 minutes to setup my miner and point to bitbar, and I'm pretty sure most people can do it in less than 1 min.

the pre-mined thing its all B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

if you want a taste of bitbar you can just beg me for it, and I might consider it ;D

Unfortunately, this will never happen, because classic difficulty adjustment rules has the power only during 30-day initial period.

+1

Imagine the multitudes at their keyboards peeing into bottles, afraid to run to the bathroom for fear of missing the narrow launch window of the next scam coin.  

Anyway, I call a BitBar-style of release a "pre-mine".  I think it is a fair term to describe the game being played.  The public announcement of the coin in this forum followed by immediate frenzied mining doesn't come close to creating a level playing field...it's just designed to give the insiders' head start a thin veneer of credibility.

What you describe happens with most coins that launch

Let's look at some other coins:

Feathercoin launched with difficulty 0
Terracoin launched with difficulty 1 (just as low as 0 in effect)
Chinacoin launched with difficulty 0
Novacoin launched with difficulty 0

etc

So because other coins fucked it up, this one should too?

I don't mine ANY coin - so not fussed about missing any boats.  But we could do with more genuine alt coins and less of the premine then pump then dump then vanish kind.  Just shuffling around bits of existing coins, premining a load and hoping to sell them off before the coins dies isn't any useful kind of progress - it's been done to death already.

And how many developers sent their instamine to NULL (0400000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) pubkey?

http://novacoin.su/tx/9ffcf4b7c8a2e17a2776f7e8aaa0852ed2a7f80386bfc0d63991aac21dbdfe1e

I think that we are only ones who made this.

I would love a little piece of the bitbar pie if you want to be a mensch and send me some :)
BAehs7x97n68HcJ4sZagYxgmAtjvkdkogw

Thx in advance! If you send 'too much' I'll give some away :)

solution, fork bitbar in a fair bitbar with an announcement with enough time to be ready (even having time to improve the rig) + a horrible high diff start so it can adjust from high to low first

the solution is easy.... but people like to argue....(and cry) if the fork is done correctly to be as fair as possible the price of bitbar would go to the shit while the price of the fair bit bar would go to the sky.

Oh and i tried to mine having only rejects... but i am happy with my giveaway 0.01 :P

You really don't understand? It makes no sense to single out BitBar for having coins that were easier to mine on day one when this has happened so many times in the past with no controversy. Feathercoin, Chinacoin, Terracoin etc didn't have 2 or 3 trolls spamming 'scam premine scam scam easy coins' in every topic. I've seen jealously do things to people but this is insane.

i'm not saying it's the best launch but as far as alt crypto coin launches go, it's done nothing that most other launches haven't done. Even coins which launch with high difficulty (PPCoin) still ended up having 2 million coins being mined on the first day.

I agree if you couldn't set up to mine this in less than a minute you  just need to stick with velcro shoes and eating paint chips. To think with all the alt coins everyone has had plenty of time to learn this very simple process

I had no problem whatsoever to get mining in less than 2 minutes from seeing the first annoucement with my first rig, the thread did have like one reply at that point or so.
15 minutes to get mining a new scrypt coin and copypaste .conf  ;D No wonder some people are crying loud about missing the train.

Why don't you cry about missing bitcoin train back in the 2009?

PPCoin which BitBar is based on along with Novacoin had a high difficulty and 2 million were still created on day 1.

What's happened is here is pretty 'normal' for a cryptocoin launch.

So the solution is to monitor the ANN 24/7 to not miss the boat?

Some people are just too retarded.

Thats what a lot of people do. Sorry if you dont have time to monitor, that means you missed the boat. Lol

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was sleeping when BitBar was launched.
Earth is divided into 24 time zones.

The only way to make it fair, is by announcing the coin 24 hours in advance, make clients/source available and restart blockchain at a set time.

But I'm not complaining, I just won't buy and/or support Bitbar because of the way it was launched.

its not that the difficult was set to zero or that the insiders were waiting at the starting line for the gun to go off.  

Its that insider knowledge resulting in the insiders having a significant advantage over the public miners and the opportunity window quickly shut.

The difficult could have started at 0 or 100 the ram up in difficulty was the door being slammed shut after insiders mined the lion's share.  

if I devised a coin that that started at difficulty 10 and jumps to difficulty 1,000,000 after 5 seconds and I know of the coin well ahead so that I can configure my machine to start as soon as the announcement happens  its not a premine

but it is a scam as only the only one that owns the coin or the majority of it. It might as well be defined as premined.  

Maybe coin developers and all parties involved should be outlawed from mining their creation.  Maybe the community should define and insider mining as a scam.  But I understand the human nature and that will likely not work.

Seems that the only think bitbar insiders are at fault for is making such a crappy currency.  Their greed bested them as they made it so difficult to mine that they are the only ones holding the bag.

I do agree that launching a new coin should be made public atleast 7 days before the actual launch. Preferably couple of pools set up and an exchange to support it. Distributing the binaries and sources in a AES encrypted 7zip or rar package and finally revealing the key at specific already widely known time.

We just haven't seen this method yet, hopefully it comes the standard some day.

Even fairer than that, would be to launch the coin but only on a 'testnet' so people could practise mining it etc. You could even argue every coin is a scam coin for not doing these things.

public mining test.  this follows good SDLC practices.  Provide a User Acceptance Test of the cin.  Give it a window of one week, gather data and release it.  I like it!

Sounds good to me as well, finally mr random is using his senses, kudos

or just, first block diff 50x actual litecoin diff, second block diff adjustment to the total time passed to find the first block, after that, normal algorithm.

new alt coins should be announced they will be released X day. Not doing so is just another form of pre-mining

Agreed. I would get behind supporting these kinds of recommendations. Have like a seal of approval from the community to any coin that is launched in a way that observes these recommendations.

Agreed

I don't understand all of the incessant whining here about the latest alt-coin. If you don't like how a particular alt-coin is released, stick to Litecoin. It's that easy. Really!

Just because a new alt-coin is announced and has miners in sixty seconds doesn't mean that everybody will be jumping on the bandwagon in that time frame. I jumped on BTB some two days after announcement when a pool was set up and I am not complaining and still earning some BTB dust for who knows what reason. Then, when all of the whoopla fades, it's back to Litecoin. It's all a game to me in the end, because no serious fiat money can be made from any of this.

So, either be on here 24/7 looking for announcements or keep your day job and view this as a hobby. Those are pretty much your only two choices.

But quit the dang whining already and be thankful that there is at least some completion to BTC, fair or unfair. I figure in a year or two it's all going to settle down to something reasonable. What that will be is anyone's guess.

In the mean time, enjoy the ride and quite whining if you don't have fast fingers and are not an unemployed vampire who stays up 24/7 monitoring the boards!

We're not allowed to express our opinions?

I'm so tired of people saying this lately, how about YOU STFU about telling us to STFU.

This is a public forum and I will damn sure post my opinion whenever I want to.

Wow, for a second there, I forgot that it is a forum that I am posting my comment on. I have to give you an LOL for the response - you deserve it!  :)

Sometimes the truth hurts... and the truth is that what you posted is your opinion, and we have our own opinion on the matter. Telling us to shut up and quit whining is not going to change anyone's opinion. Just because our opinions differ, it doesn't mean either opinion is right or wrong.

And by the way, I'm not whining. I'm not the least bit interested in Bitbar, it's just another copy cat as far as I'm concerned. I'm just agreeing to the fact that if someone or some people have insider knowledge about a coin launch, and have it configured to start mining the second it is posted in a public forum with a lot of hash power, that is just another form of premining. If you don't like our opinion, I don't have to tell you what you can do... (I imagine you can guess, and it isn't pleasant.)  :D :D ;)

100% agreement here as well.

Wrong, bitbars are like a day old, and worth more than btc, seems like something to bitch about when 99% of whats available today were mined before most people can go take a shit and come back to the computer.

I'm glad that awareness is being rised

I can agree that the behavior is pre-mining is spirit if not in name.  The hyper-regressive nature of BitBar makes it even more egregious and it makes the case for why 'mining' is seen as unfair and near ponzi in nature by most folks outside the crypto-currency community, BitBar just managed to be so unfair and so ponzi that no one could deny it.

Another possible solution might be to require difficulty in the coin, or block count to reach some reasonable level before blocks actually start having any payout.  I call this 'overburden' as in the miners have to clear off some waste rock before hitting the ore.  This would ensure that a reasonably large number of people are mining before payouts, such that it will take several days of mining and no one can be 'waiting at the start line' so to speak, it also removes the difficulty of picking an initial difficulty that's bootstrap-able but not too fast.  Growing from difficulty of 1 is easy and you just need to select an appropriate difficulty which would correspond to something like 100GH/s.

Don't see the point. If you announce a coin is going to be available on X that just gives people with massive rigs time to prepare. Does nothing to solve the 'premine' issue. At least there's more of a spread with no pre-announced date (chances are, more small-time miners will catch it first than the big ones).

Launching with a very high difficulty seems like a good idea, but this encourages less people to jump on.

But a good way to launch a coin would be to let a trusted third-party who agrees NOT to mine release it at a time only known to him/herself. That way, no single person gets a clear advantage.

Bump because Insider "hdclover" already made a thread with lies saying "it was not premined"

And people selling them for 2btc, that's pretty easy money.  :D

I'm really start to think of also releasing an alt, just to get money out of the pockets of fools that don't deserve better. They almost ask for being scammed, the only thing I got so far for warning people for these scamcoins are insults.

I just wonder if they will manage to sell them ALL, not 1 or 2, for that price...  ::)

Even if they only sell 100 it's still 10k USD profit for 2 days of work.

Obviously. It's an opinion.

Not saying someone shouldn't try it.

Lol  @ ymer saying hdclover is an insider.

You keep defending BitBar with silly posts with strawman and derails, go back to spamming how awesome BitBar is.

You fail you realize that? Lets count my posts vs your post on BitBars and see who is spamming.

You keep showing up in all the threads where the BitBar is exposed giving silly arguments, not a single significaive post by you has been seen.

Your arguments:

"LOL you were late to the game"
"LOL you think that people making threads defending BitBar over and over are insiders"  ::) ::)

Keep getting mad. I never said anything. Neither did you, except you copied other people's ideas into your posts. Who cares if I show up in threads? Who cares if i say what I want? Who cares if you said hdclover is an insider? Did you read my response to it? Did i flat out object to it? No. So, thanks. Keep it to yourself. I haven't made a single thread about these BitBars, unlike you.

lol keep ranting with no arguments, it gives you more credibility.

Just click ignore. I've done it to 3 people and now I've noticed I don't see any of these anti-BitBar trolls. Anywhere.  :)

Yea, ok. Keep spamming all you want. That gives you more credibility too. My opinions don't mean anything anyways, I've only significantly contributed to FeatherCoin to help promote it, which I'm proud of (:

You have no reason to defend BitBar right: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196323.0  ::) ::) ::)

Hey mr_random

Can you tell me why did you receive 40 Bitbars from the same person that mined the first blocks? and would that explain why are you defending it so hard?

I think this shill is toast:

Post where he shows his address: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194243.msg2017517#msg2017517


The wallet itself: http://btb.cryptocoinexplorer.com/address/B7BeA9WHxmuUrYhQq7NeckRDhbY99WgG6x

You were donated a fair ammount of BitBar to use your post count and reputation to defend it didn't you?  ::) ::)

guys, just forget about failbar, nobody cares already

In fact, the developers awarded themselves about 2000 BTB, right?

Not all of us prioritize PM'ing every JR member so that we can have the 'luck' to stay awake all night instamining the latest scamcoin though.

We all know how this works, just sad that a bunch of newcomers get stuck holding the bag with a ton of worthless scamcoins.

Bitbar is my favorite alt-coin currently...as the rarity may be a fantastic way to hold your Bitcoin's value.  Even with the profitability lower than BTC I am mining it right now...figuring the interest in it will drop off as miners scramble to mine the most profitable coin...which will be this one as the true believers keep mining and keep trading for more...this is still unknown...even to other Bitcointalk users...it's only been around for a week or two!  Give it time...and more than just believers will become interested...then the real fun begins.

I'm knitting that bag from hemp right now...please hold on so I can be that newcomer!

Seriously, I lol'd.

People, please dont bother with scamcoin pump n dumps. Just focus on BTC, LTC, and Netcoin when its finally released.

It's interesting when people argue that anyone could start mining in 2 (1, 5, 15, 30, whatever) minutes.
So they mean they see an announcement, download and build the code (which they haven't even heard of before!), or even worse, the binaries, and launch it on their machines right away?!
Just another facepalm.

Most (I hope) run the code in a VM or sandboxed install.

Got one you'd recommend?

I use VirtualBox, which is free.

There's also VMWare, and Sandboxie.

You're right, but there are still questions. One has to create a new VM instance (or clean an existing one), configure it (open/close network ports) and point miners to it. I'm trying to imagine those "early adopters" awake 24/7, with running spare clean VM, hitting F5 on the forums watching for another scamcoin announcement  :). Of course, it's possible but highly unprobable  :-\.

I just can't get how the developers could write the coin, test it (as they claim), and after all the hard work mess everything up with instant launch (just like any altcoin before). Is that greed, that nobody can overcome? Will we ever see an altcoin with really fair launch, with pre-announcement and public testing in testnet for at least a month? Or maybe there will be a documented coin some day? I hope so.

I personally dont really like the idea of their being different reward levels for the first few days. And i consider that a premine, although not as bad as PPcoin, its still rewarding those in the know, over those about to be in the know.

I'm saying this and i had my miner up by block 25 and earned alot of easy bitbar. But the coin was obviously there to benefit a few in the beginning.

Greed seems to be happening alot lately.

But how fair can a release be? Because there is always going to be someone who nows more then others. Predetermined limits that give exponantial gains in the beginning, in my opinion are not the way to test the fairness system though.

I can't understand what the problem with a fair launch is. Release the (documented) code, launch the testnet, define genesis block as hash of future Bitcoin blocks (say, hash of sequence of hashes of Bitcoin blocks xxxx00 to xxxx10, which will be mined in about a month or two after the code release). Is that that hard? They could even include their reward in the genesis block, which will be still more fair than traditional "instant launch".

So you had your miner ready in 43 seconds?

http://btb.cryptocoinexplorer.com/chain/BitBar?count=2016&hi=2015

Phucking shills