Bitcoin Forum

An important aspect for a cryptocurrency to be become big is scalability.
Ethereum recently pumped due to Bitcoins lack of scalability, but the bancor ICO showed that Ethereum also scales poorly.

So the next big thing will probably be a currency that scales well. But which one will be the leading one?

NEM (with catapult), IOTA, Radix and EOS probably will be able to handle thousands of transactions per second.
In my opinion this is worth nothing if there is no pruning to remove old data. However, it is difficult to find information about which of these coins are able to efficiently prune old data.

So an important question this thread could answer is which of them actually scale well enough for mass adoption (by for instance having efficient pruning).

Furthermore, all these coins have different capabilities. EOS is a full Ethereum competitor, NEM can run simple smart contracts and Radix has several applications running on top of it (I did not get into it). Not sure about IOTA. Which of them has in your opinion the best capabilities and how important will this be to become the dominating currency (in market cap)?

... and of course there is still bitcoin. Do you think the lightning network will solve bitcoins scalability problem?
I see the problem that the technology is complicated (you need to keep a payment channel open all the time) might be too late (we need a solution now and not in a year) and in the end all lightning transactions must still be settled on the blockchain which still requires huge blocks for mass adoption. 

Absolutely all of them have scaling issues, don't they?

My bet is on Monero because of the adaptive blocksize and permanent minimum 0.6 XMR block reward per block or tail emission. I am talking here about a crypto currency whose primary purpose is to be used as money, as opposed to a platform for smart contracts such as Ethereum. Nothing wrong with the latter it is just a different application of blockchain technology.  

I do not believe that technology such as the Lightning Network will solve Bitcoin's scaling problems because the Lightning Network requires the underlying chain to scale. Such technologies may in the future end up being deployed on top on the Monero blockchain. The Bitcoin network cannot scale primarily because fees are supposed to eventually replace the block reward as the way to provide an incentive to miners to secure the POW. This means they cannot be also used to regulate an adaptive blocksize as is the case in Monero. The best way to understand this is that in Monero, as a result of the adaptive blocksize, the total amount of fees per block is proportional to the block reward. So if the block reward were to fall to zero so would the fees. This by the way is also the reason why proposals such as the Bitcoin Unlimited will eventually lead to an insecure Bitcoin as the block reward falls to zero over time.

Please don't put EOS in the same conversation as Radix/IOTA. End of the day Radix will be King imo.

Whats radix?

never heard of these things before, but to answer your question is none. because none of these is put to the real test yet, or have the real capacity the other two have and both prove to be failed
all going to brag about their project all they want but when it come to real world it would failed just like etherium.

Everything is good in theory until tested by reality. And none of the solutions of these coins are put in the hard test yet. What matters is when the coin is put to the test, how fast will the devs refine their solutions  to become the perfect scaling solution.

I agree. But which of them has the best technology, at least in theory?
The scaling issues of Bitcoin and Ethereum were already known years ago, but no one cared about that back then.
So the hard test just proved what was already known in theory.

Theory is not perfect but it is the best tool we have right now to predict the future success of these coins.
I am still hoping there is someone here who can tell the benefits and drawbacks of the scaling solutions of the mentioned coins.

Ethereum choked real bad the other day. For a 3 year mature currency that was poor.

I will probably go with BTC/LTC + LN and IOTA for the scaling debate.

Radix was eMunie. If I remember correctly it was only 1 guy called Dan and he was weird and paranoid wouldn't let anybody else work on development, which is just the antithesis of community and the project pretty much died. There's lots of information on eMunie here.

XtraBytes is also infinitely scalable.

That is HARDLY the reason why he primarily self-funded the development for the past 4 years on his own.

Have you ever heard of the Mythical Man Month? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month)
TL/DR: Too many cooks spoil the meal

Basically, we are now at that point where Dan IS hiring additional devs now that the "core" code is completed and tested (we're only waiting on the patent completion).

Stay tuned for some exciting news on the token sale very soon. 

You'll truly be blown away by the whitepaper as it truly defines the next-next-generation of how crypto should be done.

they need to get on bittrex

Explain how xtrabytes is infinitely scalable. I'm interested. Pascalcoin is the one with the blockchain pruning tech.   I have both of these. Xtrabytes is a great name.


 PascalCoin V2 will be released next week along with a revised white-paper. The absolute latest release time will be Jun 23 Friday, but could be anytime from Tuesday the 20th. Features now include:
- In-protocol account exchange: allows users to buy/sell accounts directly from the wallet
- Account Names & Types: accounts can now register unique names much like domain-name system
- Infinite-scaling upgrade: allows true deletable blockchain without impacting new nodes
- Checkpointing: nodes only need to keep 100 latest blocks
- Improved difficulty adjustment algorithm: provides more stable block times
- Many bug-fixes and enhancements: Linux memory-leak, orphaned transaction fix, and much more.

Hard-Fork activation block number will be announced on release, and be around 14 days to allow infrastructure providers time to upgrade.

White paper:  https://github.com/PascalCoin/PascalCoin/blob/master/PascalCoinWhitePaperV2.pdf

These two coins have the best two tech of any of the low market cap coins I own.

Pruning != Scalability

Sure, you can chop a hole in the bottom of the bucket to dump some water, but it can still only fill up as fast as your tap.

Pruning allows you to manage the size of the block chain over time, not how many transactions it can process per second.

Can anyone post any actual data for each chain or just their opinion?


If Dan & team can improve upon BitShares & Steem, based on Graphene, EOS will be a monster.  Proven here:

http://docs.bitshares.eu/_downloads/bitshares-stresstest.pdf
and
http://cryptofresh.com/charts  (this page takes forever to load, but shows real statistics.  IE transactions/day, transfers, etc...)

The update we have been waiting for, very very prelim numbers on EOS: https://steemit.com/eos/@dantheman/web-assembly-on-eos-50-000-transfers-per-second

Although this is correct I still think that a scalable coin should also have pruning.

If the blockchain gets to large more and more nodes cannot afford anymore to save the whole blockchain.
This not only leads to centralization but the network would finally also get very slow or even crash as millions of clients cold try to request or send data to very few remaining full nodes at the same time that cannot handle that load anymore.

Iota i think. Its hasn't hit an exchange but the price is moving. Just wait until next year because IOTA will hit an exchange. It will be a hit. It's good to hold because the devs are active and responsive. I bought some of it when the price was 50 sats. Just watch their slack channel.

Good point that although pruning is not all that needs to be considered when scaling a cryptocurrency, it is still a good feature to have as far as optimum scalability goes. :)

After PascalCoin main dev posted on IOTA slack that he doesn't believe in Quantum Theory he should ask for several peer reviews of his whitepaper before releasing. Without that everyone will question validity of his claims if any are made in the whitepaper.

Indeed yes, pruning should be implemented where possible.  Just wanted to point out the difference as it can seem quite subtle.

XtraBytes just need to go on other exchangeres such as Bittrex at least and not sit only where they are. Also they should start promoting their coin. They just need to start doing something and than we will see this coin going to the moon :D

It's on finex since last week. It's how it came to my attention. I'm not sure on the game theory & security aspects. It took me a while to fully grasp bitcoin even though I have been in this space since 2011 (taking a crypto course, months of reading). I can see potential with IOTA and am looking for a good investment since I've recently fucked up greatly with my btc costing me a fortune. I still think bitcoin will be king it may just take 20 years to realise. This tangle tech does seem pretty cool.

Byteball looks ok and it been tested in real life already in a way, during their 'Fair distributions' on every last 6 Fullmoons.

actually.... pruning is directly related to scalability.  everybody is fixated on tx/s but that is just one measure.  

with many chains there is a bottleneck wrt tx/s, but lets say some public blockchain has nailed it and figured it out, then what?  

now we have 1000's of txs per second which means millions of users and a chain that is swelling much faster than any chain ever has before.

soon the chain is many gigabytes/terabytes.  soon VPNs and even home computer hard drives are just way too small.  people have a choice to shut down their node or spend money and upgrade.  In coins like Bitcoin, these people running nodes are even being rewarded! That all goes to miners.

so quickly the "decentalized" network goes from 1000's of nodes to 100's of nodes to 10's of nodes when it is just too expensive to keep a full record of every tx ever.  

this is why scalability of chain size and possible solutions like pruning or snapshotting come into play and directly are related to scalability. having 10's of nodes trying to serve millions of people with 1000's of tx/s is just asking for the network to run into problems and with that overload on those few remaining servers..... well..... now they aren't doing 1000's of tx/s anymore, if they even manage to stay running.

I understand that the EOS tokens will have value only if the blockchain running eos.io decide to actually use these tokens to convert them into the "blockchain tokens". But they are not obliged to, because they can change the rules as they wish. I am missing something?

IOTA is not even a blockchain based project

it is in it's own category

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOTA_(Distributed_Ledger_Technology)

Radix - scalable (pruning included), stable, it has apps, a chat and mailing system, a debit card running on its own network and a dev and team who didnt need an ICO to raise funds yet - because they truly believe in the idea behind it.

---nothing for a long time. A very long, long time ---

EOS
NEM
IOTA

but no users,no VCs just tech

yea good luck

No luck needed.  It's now out in the wild with real customers.

Status update:
First "live" product released utilizing the Radix protocol.
Not a beta, not a POC, not a trial version:  But a real working solution with a real company
https://twitter.com/radixdlt/status/900357606220251136 (https://twitter.com/radixdlt/status/900357606220251136)

I'll give you a hint:
It's with one of these companies
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/22/yc-demo-day-s17-day-2/ (https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/22/yc-demo-day-s17-day-2/)

Wew, 50 sat.

You got a fucking steal, man.

I have bet 80% on iota ;D

Status update:  Whitepaper released

https://www.radix.global/ (https://www.radix.global/)

I think out of the most IOTA is the best candidate and EOS is somewhat I am not looking forward to too much.

If the number of transactions per second is the dominant factor - in your openion - then:

Bitcoin: is capable of 7 transactions per second.
Litecoin: 28 transactions per second.
IOTA : 112 transactions per second.  (It is not the best right now.)
PascalCoin: 100 transactions per second.

Digibyte: 560 transactions per second.
XMR : 1,700 transactions per second

NEM :  10,000 transactions per second
Dash : 10,000 transactions per second

I have not checked other coins data, but seemingly the highest capability now is Nem and Dash. It could be that this will change in future.

Source of information: Coincheckup.com
As per their analysis Nem is a stronger coin than dash, in respect of Team and Advisors.
My vote is for Nem.



 

Hello!

IOTA have great future this tecnology is the best!

To buy IOTA Ethereum coin most recommended exchange cryptocurrency so before IOTA prices increase there will price growth of  ETH will be seen Source: IOTA Vs Ethereum  (https://jiomobilephone1500.com/iota-vs-bitcoin-vs-ethereum-prediction-2018-2019-2020-price-in-usd.html)

Byteball eventually

Some others mentioned here are vapourware until proven otherwise

If we talk about the smart contract platform then my bet is NEM. They are going to release NEM 2.0 Catapult at the first half of 2018. If you mean any type of projects the it should be IOTA/byteball due to the similar concept.

So, it is now mid Feb of 2018, Radix has been running various soak and stress tests at explorer.radixdlt.com.  A few days ago they did 1 billion transaction in 2 days, today another soak test is running for 1 day 10.5 hours and completed 926 million transactions. Which would put that at 926M / 34.6/3600 or  7434tx/sec.

This is what scaling is all about...  8)

On the Radix testing, one of the 10 nodes is a 5 year old AMD quad core with a 5400 rpm plater drive and it is the one that the explorer site is displaying.

I like NEM, especially their philosophy and the consensus type they use. But I'm afraid they will not release catapult on time and EOS will take the leadership...