Bitcoin Forum

For exemple, I go to a coffee shop, I buy a coffee, then I pay with Bitcoin, we have to wait for a confirmation, no? or the merchant will just trust me if I show my wallet?
How can we be sure that it's not a double spent transaction or something else?

Depends on the merchant, the guy in my city(a baker) is fine with an unconfirmed tx.  For sure there will be people that double spend as people are serious piles of shit, but that is just like the losers that dine and dash, steal from vending machines,  etc.  Business just eat the costs of human bile.

You can double spent a transaction with a phone wallet?
But if you show your wallet, and the merchant verify that you send the transaction without any problem, and he find it in his wallet (without confirmations, but if you set a high fee, it will confirm soon).

The high fees is always a good option and with that you can confirm the transaction with upto 10 minutes. But looking at the current fees which are very high it is not really possible to pay that everyone you buy your coffee. What you can do is you can initiate the transaction and once the merchant see incoming transaction you can let him confirm that manually with blockchain. That would be easiest way to grab your coffee quickly. If merchant is not that trusting then you can pay fees and find another merchant for the same product. Haha. I think that would be quicker next time. Well we can just hope for now the problems regarding faster transaction will be overcome very soon. Next time we may not wanna seat and see our coffee getting cold. :-)

In this time,bitcoin is not convenient to use for daily expense
It's like gold,you are not spend gold to buy some trivial need
Maybe in the future,after the problem of long transaction and high fees has been solved,we can use it for daily matters

It's possible, but it isn't easy.  Also, an intelligent merchant can determine if the transaction is high-risk or not.  If it is low risk, then they may be willing to accept the risk and let you leave with your product.  If it is high-risk, they may require that you collect your product after confirmation.


If you use a high fee, you are probably not going to buy a coffee (the fee will be a significant percentage of the purchase cost).  The merchant doesn't need to see your wallet.  The merchant only needs to monitor the network and determine if the transaction is high-risk or not.  Then the merchant can make a decision on what risk they are willing to accept and how they want to run their business.

Even with a high fee, your transaction can take up to 30 minutes, one hour sometimes, depends on when a block will be founded by a pool.
I also saw that some Altcoins like Dogecoin have very fast transactions, not like Bitcoin.

That is the problem that bitcoin have been facing at the moment, high transaction fees, slow confirmations on the blockchain unless the user selects a high priority fees, but I doubt there would be anyone who are willing to fork out additional money just for purchasing one coffee. Maybe it would be a good idea to stop using bitcoin for small transaction at the moment, until the confirmation about the segwit or fork on 1st august.

I can buy nearly anything around here in the same amount of time that it takes to use FIAT.  Just have to know what you are doing and how to do it. The future will see something like Bitcoin, but combined with a system like Paypal, where you are loading an account with your coins and that account waits on the transactions to confirm and the merchants will trust that service.

It is pretty certain that something is going to ruin the decentralized qualities of Bitcoin with a system like that.  It is fear based and greed based and is sold on the fact that people cannot wait a few minutes for things to happen, they must have them NOW

The society and the community could not adopt bitcoin as a whole. We still ned more time for society to adopt bitcoin in all means. But at the end, this will be much different from the current position of it. It's becomming more common every single day.

To deal with that incident, Im sure those merchants knows the current status of bitcoin network. No way they will just make bitcoin payment as one of their payment method if they are not aware to the status of bitcoin.

And why you will just show your wallet? Just send them even without confirmation as long as it was on the network. At least that is the best way. To deal with customers that will pay on bitcoin, it's obvious that there are things the owner will do with the current status of slow confirmation.

Merchants can see that you've actually sent the Bitcoin since, assuming their wallet is synced and actively connected to the blockchain, the transaction will show up in the wallet and they would just have to wait for the transaction to be confirmed before they actually own the Bitcoin you sent. Most people wouldn't double-spend anyways so there would be a fair amount of confidence from merchants for something like this.

If these block sizes are increase we shouldn't have any problems with that =]

Right now, bitcoin is not really convenient and good for everyday use, mostly due to the long confirmation times and high transaction fees. No one wants to pay a 10 dollar fee for 50 dollar fee, just for it to speed up. For most shops that accept bitcoin right now, the shop owner may ask to see your wallet in case you double spend, but it is mostly up to the manager to determine whether to accept it or not.
 
For example, say you are purchasing a TV or something that is in the 4 digits. The merchant will probably not let you give your word that you didn’t double spend. They will probably ask you to pay you a higher transaction fee that their payment could be received within that hour. It is mostly up to the intelligence of the merchant and if he is willing to take that risk.

Actually you can buy in bitcoin quickly in a store and it is i guess very easy to use  because you will you can the qr code to pay what you buy and thats it your already paid but all that matter is the transaction speed not all bitcoin wallet send money in a seconds today some bitcoin wallet takes a lot of hours and even days.

That's true! bitcoin payment need network confirmation so it can delay the transaction and it is not recommended to buy goods in instant, just cash-out first your bitcoin and convert to fiat.

As of now, this is the problem with Bitcoin, It takes time for a transaction to confirmed,. You have to raised the charges or fees to be prioritized in the cue. As of now also, ETH suffers congestion also.Speed of transaction is the issue on most of the cryptos now, because of the high demand and bulk of transaction being processed. Hope this new Segwit? will help bitcoin.

The situation presented is very true.
So the bottomline is, it's up to the user and the merchant - how they deal with such situation regarding btc transactions.
For right now, there are still some bottlenecks with BTC transactions, you just need to weigh the advantages & disadvantages brought by utilizing the digital currency.

It doesn't only depend on block size or transaction speed. There is a legal and adoption problem about bitcoin.

Ìt doesn't really take time I guess we can see some shop accepting bitcoin and there are people buying there using bitcoin and doesn't take days there just waiting for the payment to confirmed and no doubt I guess just the blockchain are down because of many transaction but still.

I think with online wallets you are unable to double spend so I am sure that if you will pay with online wallet and will pay a good fees for the transaction then the person will believe on you and then you will not need to wait for a longer time.

I suppose not you not a smaller don't have to wait for a deposit been approved. The seller will see that you sent money and something like "abating deposit" on the service that he uses for such kind of payments and that's it.

Of course, it's about fees to make sure every transaction get confirmed soon or wait for days.
Another factor maybe the number of unconfirmed transactions, if its above 100K, then you have to be patient.
If I have a coffee shop and you pay with bitcoin, I will accept it as long as the fee is sufficient, so it's depend on the owner as well.

You could have your own address so like a tab and you send bitcoins to it. Everything you order will then come off that wallet.  I'm not sure how else to do it. What do you guys think about using another wallet like you would run a tab at the bar but it's prepaid ?

Fees aside sometimes a block isn't found on the network for over an hour.   Direct purchase of prepaid gift certificates or store credit seems like a decent middle ground but then you need to deal with left over balance.  Not too efficient.   

Thats why we have choice, we can adjust the fee in able to get our transactions confirmed fast. But thks type of deal depends on the kindness and attitude of the owner. Because he can simply give your coffee when he sees he has a pending transaction and its noted as "receiving" in the network.

Most of the shop won't allowed that things, they want to be sure the payment is valid before they give us the thing, setting a high fee will faster the transaction but the expenses will be bigger, that is why I always said that bitcoin is not suitable for payment that need instant confirmation

did you really "always" said it ?
were you really saying it last year? when fees were super low, how about the year before that, or the year before that. how about when you could send a transaction with zero fees and still get a confirmation in reasonable time.
you seem to have forgotten that the current ongoing situation is very new compare to past 8 years!

At this moment something like that is a problem, some may say that you could include an higher fee, but the fees are very high at the moment you may end up paying more from the fee than the coffee, so for now there is not a good solution to that problem.

Lol, if it is starbucks or coffeebar. Transaction fees will consumes the coffee's cost in that. As of now bitcoin state is become so funny, if you look like you said. This is the corporate game, they will take their own altcoin up with the less fees in future and we all will push by them to depend on other altcoin. Satoshi is only solution to solve this issue by owning the copyright and decide the mining fees structure for pool.

Unless they sort out the high transaction fees, buying coffee or tea with Bitcoin or even a pizza is not even viable until the transaction fees are lowered in some way. I hope this happens or segwit gets activated.

If you are a regular customer, the merchant might trust you enough to let you go without even 1 confirmation. You are doing the transaction in front of him, so he will see that the transaction actually took place. Why would someone go through all that trouble to double spend for a cup of coffee? There are also other alternatives, where you use a Xapo debit card and then you fund the card with bitcoins in advance and buy at any place where VISA is accepted. < No, confirmation needed for these transactions >  ;D

Yes in some areas and in some location in the earth there are countries that accepts bitcoin, you will send bitcoin directly to the store. But in some areas there have no store accepting it. In that we can say that we cant withdraw it so easy. We need to convert in our national currency before having that.

Right now more users are practicing the same by converting to fiat and then using for all necessity. Japan has got the increased direct acceptance of bitcoin, because of the legal adoption causing more than 20000 merchants starting to accept bitcoin as payment in a very short time period.

For now that is what we are doing in our bitcoin, but there are some country that users of bitcoin can be used bitcoin to buy things but i think that is not quick because of the confirmation of transaction was too slow and i am hoping that soon bitcoin would be fully adopt here in my country to spend bitcoin itself in different stores.

Also it would be a little bit expensive as what the original price is considering the transaction fee though there are some people who transfer bitcoin in the same wallet where fees are not charged and charged only if you send bitcoins to other wallets. In your case, it depends on the shop since you have send it then they will just have to wait for it though there are cases which they call  as double spend which make them think twice to do so.

It really depends where you go and if you are online, what website you go on. I don't have many shops around me that accept Bitcoin, but online, there are many places that are fine with the transaction not being confirmed. If you use those sites, you should be fine.

you either don't use bitcoin to buy small stuff like a cofee, or you do it by losing money in the fee, or if you are lucky you can pay lower fee and use an accelerator if not beyond limit

usually the merchants will wait for 6 confirmations, so no double spend, but maybe this can prove me wrong https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115897.20

Indeed the system essentially in the blockchain is very fun or pleasant, because they use a system where someone can benefit in helping them. But to manage it all does require a lot of power so that it can be resolved quickly, indeed this system now in the bitcoin is extremely bad especially in the transaction. But there is no impediment to become something great thing, because right now it is very great advantage bitcoin
 

I'm pretty sure that Satoshi wasn't thinking about the troubles people might've faced when it comes to buying coffee or anything in supermarkets.

Why on earth would you want to use a decentralized currency which has a different kind of use in ordinary shopping? who has stopped you from

Shopping with your local currency? whenever your government denied you of using your national currency in markets then you'll use Bitcoin

Instead, when governments are sanctioning other countries then people in the sanctioned country could use Bitcoin but not for ordinary shopping.

Unfortunately, The easiest way would be to use cash instead for such meager tasks. Due to many factors, the confirmation may not be instant, and so, I'm better off enjoying my coffee instead of putting that much thought into transactions.

At this stage, one who spends bitcoin for things is a fool. Coming to the point, no one will wait for the confirmed transaction.

It's depend with the store. some gambling site accept deposit with zero confirmation maybe some store will do same.

What you are telling is a long back story, now all gambling sites are accepting deposit after 1 confirmation because due to some users misused this offer of sending bitcoins to the gambling sites with very low fees and before the transaction get cancelled and they get refund they get bitcoin in their gambling wallet and they are gambling it and if won just withdraw it or else when lost they just close their account.

so i think zero confirmation will be loss if the stores or any other business uses it

If you're dealing with merchants who deal with bitcoin on daily basis, this should not be a problem. I think this should be only of concern if you're a first time customer or something.

I prefer not to buy things with bitcoins only sometimes I can afford to make an online purchase. The reason as everybody have already said earlier: the fees, the time and also I'm trying to hold bitcoins for future.

It's more good when you change your bitcoin into cash it's more easy to pay the normal bills. Bitcoin is the biggest amount in this world so it's not good to use when you pay a cheap amount of thing.

As of now, it is hard to buy something with bitcoin because it is not that worldwide accepted and bitcoin is still young and just getting started in getting noticed by the countries around the world, So if a country notice bitcoin then he can easily get adopted and used to be a currency and in that way we can easily now pay the things with bitcoin without having any issue. In terms of speed, it is normal to experience not that lighting fast transactions because of the volume in the network.

At the moment, Bitcoin isn't really meant for day to day transactions as the fees and time are way too high for a retail standard. There is really no point for people to use Bitcoin over fiat or their credit card. Although a lot of people say that Bitcoin should be used and shouldn't just be an investment, these 2 things make that really hard.

Also, only some stores require confirmations. There are many stores online that don't require a confirmation and I prefer to just use those.

Lol yeah fee is higher and if you use low fee it will be very long waiting for the confirmation was received. Maybe only the rich who do not question the fee to shop. But for me, I would choose to convert it to fiat for shopping lol

That is true in most of the cases but not always. Since Steam Summer Day Sales just started I want to remind you that you can buy games much cheaper than usual in these days there and they accept bitcoin with 0 confirmations. In many websites which they want 2-3 confirmation this maybe true but still not always. If you for example put maximum fees in Electrum wallet you can have 2-3 confirmations in less than 30 minutes.

The merchant could easily see whether your transaction will be fine or not by checking out the current recommendation fee and compare it to yours, though, if the merchants use some sort of bitcoin payment gateway that supports zero confirmation, It's all will be fine, the money will be directly transferred to the merchant's bank account. Still, not a convenient way to go though.

Well not only that though the confirmation of Bitcoin could get sped up if the person decided to use an offline transaction instead of entirely relying on Blockchain.
All the person will need to do after sending his wallet.dat file would be to change the password on his file while checking blockchain. The whole process could get sped up with a Blockchain Bootstrap file.

No, it's not safe thereotically to accept bitcoin without any confirmations, however when you are just buying something for under $10 in real life at a vendor that you frequent, it is extremely improbable that you're going to double spend. double spending is extremely rare anyways, even when both parties don't know who the other party is.

It really depends on the seller, whether he trusts you or not. I'd say that you won't run into a problem of waiting for 10 minutes or more waiting for a confirmation if you have shown that you can be trusted in the past.

But then, why would you buy coffee with btc in the first place? Not only do very little merchants accept bitcoin irl, which is sad, you'd also be paying more in transaction fees than the actual cup of coffee :D

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here.

As soon as you hit the send button on your bitcoin client, the other party can see the transaction in their wallet as well. You don't need to show them the transaction from your perspective because everything is public on the bitcoin blockchain anyways.

Most double spending attempts are over the internet. Very little people would risk getting caught for double spending in real life and potentially get fined far more than they gained, for a cup of coffee or even electronics.

Bitcoin transactions are instant. But confirmations take time. Whether or not someone would accept 0 confirmation deposits is entirely up to them, but as long as they make sure that you pay good amounts of fees, they should be able to.

yeah you're right bitcoin can't use on sometingk like fastfood, groceries etc. or you can... if you're willing to wait for a day to purchase i cup of coffee lol i think if they improve the fast transaction in bitcoins maybe we can use it in our daily life. and also if they decrease the transaction fee i guess it will be possible that bitcoin may be our currency even in the real world

unfortunately i would like to says it's true and that's why most of stores around the world don't really dare to took bitcoin as the payment besides it's risky also the transactions fees was pretty high currently especially for buy small things such as a cup of coffee or A pack of candy the price will more expensive because every transactions including the fees will always belong to the buyers itself

That is why this is not seen as the main purpose of Bitcoin, but censorship resistant transactions and storage of value are. I think new solutions like Lightning Network will make things easier for that purpose.

Yeah, but if there are stores where they do accept bitcoin as a payment then we could easily buy things with bitcoin, but I recommend to you guys that as long as you could spend fiat on buying things that you do want or need, then it is more better that to spend bitcoin on it. Holding your bitcoin on your wallet and keep on saving it could make you rich someday and you could earn a lot of profits in the long run.

And everyone who claims this is damn stupid.

If nobody would spend bitcoins on things one of the main uses of bitcoin would be wasted.

What would be left?
An investment into something....nobody uses cause it would be foolish to use it.

Good luck holding your bitcoins and thinking that the value will increase just like that without people buying and selling.

If it weren't for that "fool" who bought a 10k BTC and other that followed  we would probably be still at 7$ per BTC right now, or maybe not even that

No,we can't buy anything by bitcoin early.If we want to spend or buy anything by bitcoin we have to wait for it the present currency which is in the market place we used to buy anything.When we earn bitcoin it save in the wallet then we sell it.Then we get dollar as it's price.

You know what bro, it really depend on the merchant. Let say he/she wants the payment be fully confirmed first before you can get the product but I think it would be hassle for them and also for us. A single confirmation is okay because we really cant cancel a transaction after sent it.

Gone are the days when you can purchase micro stuffs with your coin, easy peasy, but now with the huge TX fees, it is almost impossible unless you have a lot to spare. I miss those days though and hopefully it comes back. Anyway, from what OP said, it isn't like we can't buy something with Bitcoin quickly, we definitely can with a high fee but if you think your transaction won't take forever with a very low TX fee these days because you can't imagine yourself paying a transaction fee more than the value of the item you are purchasing itself, ... IMPOSSIBLE!

thats right it can't undone wants the transaction was already been sent, but the big problem is the current fee is really hurting both buyers and sellers unlike before that we can easily transact without hesitation but now before buying small stuff you will think twice because of the said fees,.

You are correct, the current network fees and confirmation time is actually hindering the goal of bitcoin to become an internet currency. People prefer other coins like ETH for the swift turn-around-time.

However, bitcoin still remains as an excellent investment currency due to the steady increase in its price. Those who are investing in bitcoin since last one year, they are already sitting on crazy profit and I am sure they are investing more in to it. So it is the best time to take bitcoin as an investment asset and not as a transaction currency.

I think you don't need to wait for confirmation because when you send a bitcoin to a wallet in a minute you can see that the transaction is pending, that alone will verify that the bitcoin is sending and just waiting for confirmation. I think when businesses will do that if bitcoin will be mainstream in our generation, but I also think by that time when shops will accept bitcoin as a payment programmers will find a way to make bitcoin transactions faster like banks when you use your card and tap your card or like the apple pay or google pay were you just pay and as long as you can see that the transaction is pending your good to go.  ;)

if it's not secret, where are you from? it's interesting for me, because in my country I can't buy coffee for btc.

The advantage of delayed bitcoin transactions is that transactions can't be canceled when they are sent, this has become a warranty between two parties. I keep paying attention to the development of bitcoin paper, but there has been no serious progress. I hope bitcoin can make coins/physical paper as perfect as possible because only this can make things faster.

I dont see any issue in that so far the merchant is knowledgeable about bitcoin all that is needed is to ensure just one confirmation and there wont be any issue arising. But the cause for concern is actually the cost of transferring, that we all know its on the high side in the sense that for wanting to buy say a 2$ coffee and I need to pay say $1 transaction fee in order to attain the one confirmation needed is too expensive for me.

Easiest way is using web wallets. They don't credit your account until BTC is confirmed and debited account as soon as you made transaction. Thus no possibility of double spend.
In this way, shopkeeper can easily trust you for amount even without single confirmation.
By the way, when you decided to spend $3 in fees to pay for coffer worth $1  :D

sure, because bitcoin has been popular and widely used. So when you use them will take time or may be refused.Bitcoin is only used to perform the transaction for less cost. I don't think anyone will use bitcoin. ...To buy cafe.

I think that's not a stupid thing, although at this time the confirmation time is quite long but it does not matter if you are shopping outside other countries? Is it you ever shop on ebay or amazon. Delivery time can be up to 2 weeks to get to my country. So just waiting a few minutes or a few hours to confirm is not a problem

Now we cant buy something quickly using bitcoin.Because bitcoin now is not yet globally accepted and globally used .But I think time will come that bitcoin will be known and will be use bt many and it will become one of the money currency in the world.

We should be thankful enough that we would have the knowledge on how to earn bitcoin. We all know how does it works so we should not get too impatient because we cant buy our wants instantly. It is our part to wait for the transactions. It doesnt matter as long as we can use it to buy our goods.

Ah, that's right. I never think about something like this before since there's no place for me to use my bitcoin in my country.
But maybe they will believe it if you show the transaction proof? If not it'll be a real disaster though. Imagine you buy a cup of coffee and need to wait for one or two hours to get it lol. Kinda funny for me.
It's really inconvinient. You should just change your btc into real money and use your real money instead to buy coffee.

Unless its becoming popular enough, its not possible to see Bitcoin getting accepted even in the big retailers/shops.
I can recharge using Bitcoin in my country and even transact for goods or services but on personal mutual understanding.

Using BTC online is no doubt helped me a lot as I don't have Credit Card and so it helps me to transact with no issues.

Why do you have to show your wallet just to prove that you have sent the exact amount of coin when it can be seen on transaction history even if it is not yet confirmed ? Actually it is not a problem and you don't have to wait for it to be confirmed as long as you have made it, it will be sent only to the right recipient . And since there are already an options for the speed of transactions it might help to make the process much faster .

Agreed. we should be thankful that we have found bitcoin and earn from it. However, I still try to be very optimistic and see that bitcoin will be mass adopted and as a result a lot of online merchant will accept bitcoin as mode of payment. But sadly, its not today because of the high transaction fee's that is being incurred when using bitcoin.

I think it is very difficult if you just pay for coffee with bitcoin why?
Because the bitcoin system when you transact will require confirmation and it takes about 5-10 minutes, while your coffee price is not more than 10 dollars,
I think for now the transaction using bitcoin to the shop or restaurant there is a minimum price of about 50 dollars.

There will be no further development.
http://www.bitnotes.org/

This is as far as we can go.
Because bitcoin design we can't and we won't have paper bills or coins.
The moment you have control over a bill you have control over those coins for as long as they stay in the address you have the privkey.
Just handing over the bill won't cancel your access to the funds located behind that privkey.

Unless we go and exchange bills and then print another set right at the moment of the transactions there will be no safe way to exchange them. And that would be pretty stupid.

That will vary depending on the merchant. If they will let you go even the transaction is not yet confirmed then you can, if not then you cannot. If they want to wait for the confirmation, you might end up adding transaction fees so that the transaction will be confirmed quickly and that is the worst. This transaction confirmation waiting time needs to be compromised as soon as possible in order for Bitcoin to be used as an effective currency.

I doubt double spent tx will occur there. Almost all wallet (if not all) displays a notification or something that confirms your tx so having a double payment is not possible otherwise the user is at fault.

Well, I'd have to say it really depends on the merchant themselves if they'd want to accept an unconfirmed TX. If you're showing them you going through all the steps to pay for it and you're using a wallet that many others trust to not allow a double spend (BitGO, Blockchain.info, etc) then they MAY be ok with accepting an unconfirmed TX. But if you're doing something online they're bound to not allow for this to occur due to the simple fact that they don't know how you're going about sending it on the network.

Bitcoin is not a micropayment right now. Have you tried to see what was happening with the bitcoin network before? The raise of the transaction fees made those not able to make a micropayment transaction because the network need the more fees. Around $2 -$5. And do you want to pay over A single dollar for the fees just to pay a little transaction such as buying a coffee? That's pretty strange.  ::)

Maybe in our time calculating with the help of cryptocurrencies isn't the fastest procedure but after 2-3 years no problems will arise. In particular, using a mobile purse is a real solution of this problem.

Yes this soon will be resolved as segwit2x will be happen. Let's hope for this correction.


Yes, I'd rather not to use my btc just for one cup of coffee. If the price is $10 then pay $2 for transaction fee, that would be such a waste. Plus the long waiting of confirmation. Nah! I just use my cash instead of btc. Less hassle. No double spending.

Yes, I'd rather not to use my btc just for one cup of coffee. If the price is $10 then pay $2 for transaction fee, that would be such a waste. Plus the long waiting of confirmation. Nah! I just use my cash instead of btc. Less hassle. No double spending.
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Yeah, why we need to use our bitcoin to buy a coffee when we can use our fiat money to buy things like coffee without having any problem? Bitcoin is more worth than fiat so we should not just spend it on the useless things that we like doing the same in the fiat. We should just spend our bitcoin if it is really necessary like in emergency but for normal things like buying a coffee then we should avoid doing that.

For now it's true, almost no one will want to spend their Bitcoins knowing its price will increase a lot yet. But and if BTC price would be already stable, without big variations, would you still keep it stored? If it's not used to buy things, it's not a currency...

At some point it should be used to buy quickly things or it will be an asset forever.

For now bitcoin transactions are still slow. Certainly because the confirmation is quite long. But someday in the future this problem will surely be solved. So the confirmation will be resolved quickly. So you can shop and pay quickly

I kinda agree to your opinion. This is one of the downside when using bitcoins to pay on your daily expenses. It is really a hassle that every time you pay using bitcoin there will always be a transaction fees to be paid for that is and additional to what you were going to spend. Compared to cash it is really far from bitcoins to compete in this kind of department.

This fee is/was present in electronic point of sale transactions; you don't notice it because it is priced in to the products and services we purchase. See here:


Essentially, they pay a fee per transaction as well, but I will admit it is much lower than its bitcoin counterpart.

This is why small businesses sometimes have minimum transactions.

Dodd Frank limited these fees, I think they were like .25-.30 cents. We are currently repealing Dodd Frank, so there's that ;)

If you send the bitcoin it will be unconfirmed but the status that you will see is the "receiving" so by that I think that is possible to get coffee in an instant because they will receive the bitcoin no matter what. And you can trade your bitcoin into fiat to lessen the hassle of the bitcoin transactions before spending it.

Even if you trade it into fiat first you are still going to spend time to get it confirmed so it's not going to be that simple. There's just the pressing need to get the delayed confirmation issues solved as soon as possible. As for the merchants it's upto each one of them to accept unconfirmed or pending transactions without worrying about double spending.

All up to the merchant's intelligence, some people are just idiots and will double spend a 5 dollar coffee. Usually, if you are buying something big with bitcoin, the merchant may ask for you to remain there for a little bit before it gets confirmed, since no one wants to get scammed by 10k. This is why using fiat is better when purchasing items in real life and that is why bitcoin is most effective when used online.

I agree, it really depends on the merchant if they are okay if the transaction is unconfirmed yet because there are some who really waits for them to get confirmed. Before you buy anything with bitcoin, I think it's better to ask first before buying just to make sure you wouldn't cause traffic in lining up just o buy coffee and paying with bitcoin.

You can get fast confirmations with high fees, but who would want to give a $2.5 fee for just a cup of coffee. Pay low fee and wait for ages to get your coffee? No thanks. Not worth at all. But we can expect a lightning fast network confirmation soon.

Maybe you can show your wallet that you already sent your payment with their store but the confirmation is still ongoing maybe they can accept it because it is already sent to them but still been waiting for the confirmation. Or if you really want to get your coffee immediately, you can sent them your payment the day before you go to their store so can get your coffe immediately.  ;D

You cannot double spend Bitcoin. Once it is sent, it is sent. In other words, Bitcoin transaction cannot be reversed. There are no possible chargebacks. But this is only applicable once the transaction is confirmed by a miner. So yeah, like you said the vendor would have to wait for the confirmation, which takes a long times these days, or be content with visual confirmation that the purchaser has sent the desirable amount to the correct address. Most vendors are chill and don’t mind, but many are extremely meticulous. It really depends on the vendor. But if Bitcoin is to be used in everyday life, this is going to be a hurdle that we must overcome.

That's true, I agreed that most of the time the confirmation using bitcoin as payment is not that quick or fast to confirms, it takes time to get the confirmation first before it done or finish. So, check the tx id first that's the basis for us not to experience the double spend.

I agree with your concern on real time usage of bitcoin we can make sure by paying high transaction fees even it will take time. I recommend convert into fiat currency in exchanges and use it .

There are many sites nowadays where you can buy good directly with bitcoins. You can try any of them but nowadays you have to pay alot higher transaction fee then it used to earlier and also have to wait for hours to get 3 confirmations on your transaction.

The speed problem is still here.
So... what where you saying?


Yes you can double spend but that implies a lot of hash power. Not going to happen

But the entire saga about getting one confirmation is the main problem here.
Nobody gives a damn about the second or the third.
The first one that might take hours normally or if you're really unlucky even one hour and half even with the biggest fee in the mempool just because no block is mined if what turns people off about it.

Bitcoin, today, is impractical to be used as a mode of payment because of the existing high fees and the waiting time for the transaction confirmations. It is much more convenient to pay in fiat rather than in Bitcoin. AS for you case, it will depend on the merchant if they will accept unconfirmed transaction or not.

Double payment rarely occur since if the payment was sent to blockchain, most wallet gives a notification to the user that the payment was  sent.

Wait, am I missing something here? Aren't you a member of a signature campaign that is getting regular payments for posting? Aren't those payments done in bitcoin?
Somehow it is convenient for your manager to keep paying you and it is convenient for you to keep receiving these transactions, yet you're saying it isn't  :-\

It's not hard for a merchant to wait for a confirmation. If I order something online they have it written down that they have at least a week (usually two) to sand the product. Confirmations are much faster.

The real time usage of bitcoin is quite difficult as the delay in networks will take a longer time and the over all money you have to spend will be much more than the product because of the network fees and unless you are getting the coins through mining  it is not a profitable thing to shell out more money with every transactions,so bitcoin is not meant for that and you could convert it to fiat for daily shopping. ;)

The problem is  not only the high fee, one of the biggest problems is the speed of confirmation, can you imagine to wait for a 10 minutes before getting a confirmation and that is if you pay a high fee if you don’t you could need to wait a few hours after buying your coffee.

Yes it can be but not for now.
Maybe some more years, when bitcoin is acknowledged all over the country. When all the merchants are accepting btc as payment. Of course there will be no long waiting for confirmed transaction, no need to show your phone just to make him believe that you already sent. No double spending. Oh I wish it will be happening sooner. But for now cash is the most convenient to use as ever.

And spending your bitcoins on this kind of stuffs is just a waste of profits, spending your bitcoin just to buy coffee for example? lol, it is better if we are going to save our bitcoin or if we are going to spend it for something then it would be better if we are going to convert it first so the profits that we could make in the long run won't be wasted.

This double payment only happens if our internet connection is so slow that is why we are thinking that we didn't send the transaction yet but we already did, that is why we should be careful on sending bitcoins.

The transaction will show up in the wallet.  You can also send without confirmation.  The transaction would always go down to the agreement between the merchant and buyer.  It depends on how they deal with this kind of transaction.  For now using bitcoin for evryday transaction is still not as convenient as using fiat money since bitcoin is still not accepted globally.

increase the fees and it will be confirmaed within minutes., happened to me once., confirmed within 2 minutes,

In principle, you have to invest in 10 minutes of the transaction, but if it is on a day off, it can take more time, up to an hour, of course, and coffee will cool down during this time). If the seller does not trust you, you can pay a commission and find another merchant for the same product. Today bitcoin is not really convenient in using.  :-\

I guess you can if you put a high fee on the transaction that you are going to do. But you can ask the merchant if he or she willing to wait if you put low amount for fee it is up to your conversation or where you both up to. But possibly he or she will choose just to put a high fee so the store can claim your money with no worries at all. So for me, you can buy it in your cost.

For me the transaction time I was encountering was just easy and fast.  Though we do not have here establishment that accepts bitcoin for coffee or foods.  But we can buy cellpjone loads in a nick of a time.  We can also transfer or encash our bitcoin in a short period of time.  So for me bitcoin transaction here is easy.

I suppose technology takes a little time to be seamlessly integrated into systems, previously no country used to accept bitcoins as a form of payment, but now some do..so I guess its a matter of time for the transaction delay time to be reduced. Also for other countries to embrace it

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency but it doesn't work like the fiat and if we will just spend our bitcoins to the basic things that we can buy thru fiat money then it is very nonsense for using bitcoin to that. It is better to just use our fiat money to buy things and not bitcoin because if we look in fees they are high now and it is like a silly move to just use bitcoin for regular activities.

You can use bitcoin to buy a wide variety of items directly for bitcoin, and everything indirectly through exchanges and buying Gift Cards and reward accounts from Gyft, Hence can actually buy everything from Walmart to Amazon indirectly.

Wow that was fast. So you mean you need to increase your transaction fee just to get a fast confirmation? The higher the price the faster the confirmation? That's cool but not practical to do.
Just use my cash for a cup of coffee. That will be fine now. Maybe I'll use my btc when things are better.

It's not always that bad though, I mean right now and the past couple of weeks there have been fewer transaction and you can get away with a somewhat normal fee.
There are 14000 unconfirmed transactions right now and you'll get your transaction confirmed by paying around 360 satoshis/byte

This is one of issue Bitcoin need improve soon! In present, more altcoins can make payment very fast, maybe just need under a minute to get confirm, look like as XRP, DGB ... I think Segwit2x will improve this issue and change fee for transaction BTC to lower than now

If the number of transactions becomes smaller it is not very good. Suffers trade for bitcoins, and this can affect the demand. Perhaps for this reason, there is a drop in prices? No trade for bitcoins at the crypto has no future because it is constantly investing in coins is impossible. Any currency desired turnover.

It really depends on the person accepting Bitcoin. Even some sites I go to now, they will receive an instant deposit (0 confirmation) or instant transaction recorded, but if I were to withdraw then it would wait for confirmations (this is fair and good).

Also, on other sites, once you complete a few successful transactions, you get higher limits for 0 confirmation instant purchases. It works.

Yes, We can't if we are buying through 3rd party sites but if you are having a deal with a person then you'll be able to do the trades faster because the item you are buying can  be given to you once the other end saw your transaction even if its unconfirmed. I've dealt with many people before and that is how we do our trades once i saw the transaction in the blockchain then i can give them the goods or alt coins that they are buying.

Definitely.bitcoin is no more economical to buy small products due to higher transaction fee.So,bitcoin should be considered just as a commodity like gold and not as a currency.Also we could wait for Segwit 2x to get activated and see whether transaction fee decreases.

Basically you can't buy anything with Bitcoin nowadays. Hoping things will get better after 1st August or maybe even before that date. It's better to hold and use old money to buy stuff in the meantime...

Well I think it depends on the seller,
If the seller would agree to give it to you with just 1 confirmation in the process.

Looks like a problem if I'm not drinking my coffee inside the coffee shop. Lolz! Don't know exactly what to do with such a situation. May be you can choose to pay him in advance if you are a regular customer at the same coffee shop everyday. Waiting for the confirmation will always be there if you are paying less fees which can take upto few hours to confirm. On the other if you pay high fees then also you will have to wait for 10 min to 30 min for sure which also not a good option to go easily with bitcoin payments. But, there is one more good option to surpass your worries which is bitcoin debit card. There are lots of services now available for us to use like contactless bitcoin cards. One on the my signature right now is TenX which works on the principle of instant blockchain made spendable. That means you can use your bitcoin instantly without any further delays or confirmations. May be it is not available in all parts of the world but it will get fully developed for sure.   

You don't have to transact in person for this method to work. If you do it online and show an unconfirmed transaction in the blockchain, they can release the fiat payment or send you a product.
In case of an online store packing the product and entering all shipment details take time. Also companies have scheduled shipments usually once a day, so there's plenty of time for the payment to come through. THey can proceed like it were confirmed and by the time everything is packed and taken by the driver they can have a confirmation.

By way of transactions using bitcoin is not as easy as we open the wallet and take the money and then pay it but the transaction using bitcoin we must connect first with the internet it takes time not so fast than we spend money from the pocket itself.

With till now maturity of bitcoin this problem is fact but when it become common such wallets will introduce which will clearly shows that is there is bitcoin in the wallet or not which will save time even it will be more easy because every person who will accept bitcoin will have automatic software for his business which is other very good feature of bitcoin.

Exactly, using bitcoin for micro transactions and especially in the offline market, it is getting more and more difficult and costly. I am not sure if we can do this or not but I would like to have some service which will instantly transfer the bitcoins from my account to the account of some other person without such high fees. Reducing cost for micro transaction would boost the overall growth of bitcoin in terms of user base and price.

It is not a smart idea to use bitcoin to buy things that are very low in price because you are like paying the item twice because of the fees that are high too or the same of the price of the coffee (for example) bitcoin is not like fiat currency and they have uniqueness and they designed differently so we don't need to expect to buy something with bitcoin in a quick and money wise kind of way.

I already thought about this thing and i guess when they use bitcoin it will takes hours before it will going to confirm but i see some youtube videos where they buy in store using bitcoin and they just scan the qr code and then just a split second already receive the bitcoin so i guess its depend in what is your wallet.

Yes that could be one of the main reason why bitcoin in some ways is not instantly to be use. If we dont have an internet access we cannot withdraw bitcoin.

that is no reason!
most places in the world already have some sort of internet access, even in the third world countries, the internet access is growing. there are actually some third world countries with more people online than any other country!
in other words you need to look at the majority and how their internet access is not the minority in the depth of Africa.

Definitely,it has become very hard to buy anything nowadays with  bitcoins quickly.The reason is very slow transaction.If you are ready to pay more fee for such small products to speed up confirmation,then it would be uneconomical.In future,bitcoin would be mostly used as a store value instead of a currency.

They really have to find the right places for allowing the bitcoin as a payment, but i heard that some of the restaurant is accepting bitcoin as a payment. This could be easy for a person to automatically pay his coffee in the restaurant by using only his mobile phone to send a bitcoin. Maybe in the future they will likely to make an ATM like for a bitcoin user to instantly swipe their card to instantly pay their bills in just a couple of minutes.

Well in some instances just who the trail where you paid it then i guess its ok but with the current high transaction fee, it is good enough as buying a 2 coffee with just one transactions. So i guess for now btc as a direct payment in small businesses is just not advisable. Maybe in the future if the fee would go down and as you said it will just be via swipe then its ok to start a btc as payment.

When you are revolting against all the masters controlling every body like puppets right now every where on the planet, you never care for petty routines, people have mistaken Bitcoin with a smart phone application, they usually making things much easier to do but Bitcoin is not an application, it's not an ordinary digital currency, you need to learn what decentralized truly means and what potentials it has, regardless we are not normally go shopping then pay with gold coins or gold bars, if Bitcoin is not digital gold then what is it?

Agreed, the transaction confirmation time is very slow and we can wait 1 hour or 10 hours, even one day to confirm the transaction and if we want time to confirm the transaction faster, we will need to spend quite a lot of transaction fees, transaction fees are much more expensive than money to buy coffee. I also do not think anyone has enough free time to buy coffee with bitcoin, instead we should use the cash for more convenience, Bitcoin should only be used for investing and saving for the future

Well, I was not talking about internet access but the offline transaction is in the reference with the transactions made for the offline purchases (through the merchants in the markets). Even the offline transactions will need internet access for transferring funds from one wallet to the another.

Your exemple is right, my friend!  ;D ;D

Bitcoin right now is not actually a practical instrument to buy some daily small stuff like a cup of coffee. It is not worth it. For those kinds of transactions you better use your fiat currency. With fiat, you don't even have to ask for the chit. You just have to leave a bill right under your saucer and leave without a word. With bitcoin, it takes more confirmation time and high fee.

This is the problem that we cant buy something with bitcoin. Even here in my country no shops nor coffee shops that offer bitcoin as payment. Maybe because bitcoin still has a problem that didnt resolved yet like too long to confirm the transaction.

I'm sure the merchants have synced and actively connected wallets to the blockchain, it's unlikely they will receive a payment via bitcoin if the wallet is not synchronized. It's hard to buy something right now quickly because very slow transaction. But usually the item will be processed when bitcoin is sent and wait for confirmation on the merchant's wallet

if a merchant collaborate with certain wallet to make a deal to secure an unconfirmed transaction it might could solve the long time transaction confirmation. just like what fortunejack done , the partnership between them allows players to play immediately , more info you can visit the site and you would know.

Exactly. There are so many bitcoin sites, gambling ones especially have a high majority like these, that are very happy to let you deposit and see a balance instantly. Or, even some will show an incoming balance so you can start playing or using the funds immediately. It is only when items are exchanged for it, or you want to withdraw it that confirmations must happen.

As others have stated it depends on the merchants. I think it also depends on what it is you buy. If you purhcase a coffee for $3 I'm not sure who would go through the effort of double-spending that and then never go to that coffee shop again? Not a lot of people I'd say.

As for the OP stating we can't buy "something" quickly I can make purchases online just as fast as when I use a CC more or less. Thanks to bitpay. I don't have to sit around and wait for the confirmation to show as long as I know that it will confirm eventually.

I'd even argue that accepting CCs as a merchant in real life is more risky than accepting bitcoin purchases with 0 confirmation, no matter what the amount is.

Look on the news, you'll see a ton of people using stolen credit card details to book a room at a hotel, buy expensive jewelry, electronics, gift cards, and whatnot. Now search up how many people are willing to do the same with bitcoin doublespends? I haven't come across a single case in the 4 years i've spent with btc. Fact is that in real life, you don't have enough time to doublespend, and it's not worth it, because everything is caught on CCTV. Even casinos accept 0 conf deposits, like Bitsler and i think bitcoinvideocasino(or used to), and never had major issues with doublespends even though the guy is behind a screen.

The main concern here is fees, not doublespends. If you're buying a coffee for $3 and the fee is $3 alone, you're probably not going to buy it in bitcoin. But if you order something overseas, online, say a macbook, doing so with bitcoin is much cheaper than pp or cc.

Exactly! CC's have always had fraudulent people using it. Regardless we do keep using them even though reports are increasing of how unsafe they actually are. Especially with identity thefts etc. Nobody could ever steal your identity and gain access to your BTC.

As for merchants lowering or removing the risks if they were to migrate over to BTC is another thing. AFAIK merchants have to pay fee's to accept payments through CC's and I can see a lot of them would prefer to get rid of that. Especially smaller shops with cheap items.

I agree with you.  As a matter of fact I can always buy or topup my phone using bitcoin.  And it is fast really.  I can pay my bills just like buying loads for my phone also it is fast.  Does not really happen that it takes time.  Even it takes time I do not get bored because I am doing something with my bitcoin while I am waiting.  Just the same thing when you will buy coffee and falls in line, right?

Exactly, paying for the coffee while you are waiting in line is another option to speed up the transactions. Just show them your screen that the transaction confirmed or was sent when you get up to the cashier and you hould be all good. That was something I had not really thought about so thanks for pointing that out.

As for your other point, exactly. You can do whatever in the meanwhile just as you could with CC's. But at least you can track your payment and all of that rather than just seeing that money was taken from your bank account and there is no way for you to follow it or check what's going on with it..

Do you really think that it's a problem that you can't buy something with bitcoin? I don't problem with bitcoins today, as I'm very satisfied on how I'm using bitcoin. I know that there's a few place that we can use bitcoin directly and here in my country I'm very good by using bitcoin for paying bills and I'm good at it.

I think using bitcoin to buy regular things that we are buying with our fiat is a good idea because the fees of bitcoin will become a problem for the people who want to use their bitcoin and it is not worth it to buy something like 5 USD on its price and you are gonna to pay at least 2 USD fee for your transaction then that is almost a half of your paid amount that it is a very bad idea to just spend bitcoin anywhere because the fees is not that affordable and wise to pay for such small transactions.

Bitcoin is the fastest way to transfer money electronically. <--- That's a period.

For comparison, if you buy with a credit card it will take two to thirty days for the seller to receive payment. It may seem to you as the buyer that it was instantaneous, but it's not.

In your coffee shop example the seller could just ignore the confirmations. That is what happens when you use a credit card for a small purchase. The credit card issuer just takes the risk because it is not cost effective to commit credit card fraud for a cup of coffee. Same is true for bitcoin. A double spend for coffee is not logical.

Yes, that's one problem, I have watched a video about BTM (Bitcoin ATM) that people who sell Bitcoin had to wait a long time just for the transactions be confirmed so that it's not convenient way to use Bitcoin as money to go shopping

I had to wait under 7 minutes to withdraw from the bitcoin atm.

It is a balance question that neither we buy neither we sell ? How I mean I asked something how? The way is that bitcoin is now introducing his currency in different ways, couple of days ago Alibaba accepted bitcoin that people can buy things though bitcoins. Like that hotel allowed in a Singapore, Thailand and many other countries.

This is true and sad, but in the end it is something that is still true. With the current congestion in the network, TX fees being insanely high and all that, you actually can't buy things with Bitcoin in a manner that's going to be time efficient in the least. It's horrid and something that the miners, and the community is going to have to come together in order to try to work the kinks out and fix it. This is unreal and is going to lead Bitcoin down a place where it's unable to be used as a world currency like everyone on here would love to see, with me included. I call on a consensus to be picked and fixed.

i also do not think that there is any problem while using bitcoin. i think we can use bitcoin very easily and quickly, and specially for online shopping, where we can use bitcoin at any time. although we have still some problems to use it even in our local shops, and i think the main reason is that bitcoin the users of bitcoin still very low in our area, most of the people still do not have any idea about bitcoin.

The fees are really high but so far I haven't came to the point that I almost triggered by the high fees. But that's the problem that we are experiencing now maybe after the chain split we'll see a good result from this. And more companies are possibly going to adopt bitcoin so we can use it quickly.

This is not a big problem. Let’s suppose an example of Facebook in a start they were less number of people in beginning it was not too developed like refreshing page for getting new messages, like that is bitcoin.

Bitcoin in a start faced a lot of difficulties no one was know that what is Bitcoin but with the days and months it is going famous. It is not a problem in transaction that taking long time but with the passage of time. Bitcoin will improve this problem and more become a faster.

It all depends on how much you are willing to spend per transaction. One of my wallets has an automatic exchange of the national currency and withdrawal of currency to a Bank card. It now happens instantly. Only the price in exchange for 200-300 dollars less than the real price for 1 BTC.

Wait a minute , did you just said you're paying an extra 15% to withdraw your funds with the current exchange?
Why are you even doing it?
I might be able to understand if you go and deal in cash on localbitcoin or try an atm that doesn't require id but this?

they definitely need to work on that to make it comfortable for sellers and buyers

All will go through a process done first if you want to do something with bitcoin, for example by making a purchase using bitcoin.

It's not even this. Obviously the guy is probably selling their coins a bit too cheap, but he can do whatever he wants. Plus, the discussion is more about miner's fees and transaction confirmation times, rather than exchange rate spreads on exchanges.


I would assume that most merchants willtrust you because they've got CCTV and all that, security measures irl are much more stringent than in the cyber world. Plus, Bitpay or other bitcoin payment processors will assess whether or not your transaction has enough fees to be confirmed in the first block. If your transaction is large obviously maybe they'll ask you to sit down and wait till confirmations arrive, and the same with low transaction fees.

Bitcoin is built for ecommerce imo so real world adaptability isn't that great atm.

I agree. Bitcoin is still in it's infancy. We have much to learn, and making transactions easy & seamless is just one aspect.

They wont need that if they really know bitcoin.
It is not like Paypal that you could take it back. Once a transaction is in process it is good to go.
If only I got that business I would offer a bitcoin payment.
And as long you paid the right price it is good to go.
I dont even need your information because nothing bad would happen.

I believe that the team behind bitcoin is currently working on that solution and that is segwit which it will make the transactions faster and also it will make bitcoin much better because it will have a higher amount of block size that will make the network have a bigger space for the incoming more demand of the users which is really happening right now.

I am pretty sure that is why we have Altcoins. If Altcoins was not built then the progress for Bitcoin would’ve been faster though the price of Bitcoin would be much more expensive than it is right now. Altcoins also help with the building process for Bitcoin tech.

Well I only wish the Segwit Proposal would be great for us all and bitcoin transaction would be just minimal and we can have an easier transaction even if the price split I think there would be many users that will be please to see that in the future.

And speaking with Altcoins I think they are in relation it is like a symbiosis kind of thing that if Altcoins would not exist there would never be a competitor that push bitcoin price to go up and not the other way around and many people are using it to trade and have much more profit than bitcoin alone!

Yes once this segwit happen after that I think we can use bitcoin to buy our daily needs because we are hoping after this segwit the transaction speed will become fast and I think the transaction fee also reduce. Once this transaction issue solved then slowly, people start to accept bitcoin in their business. Let's wait for just 1 month to see new improvement in bitcoin.

The problematic being discussed in the thread is not about the range of goods you can get with bitcoin, which is very wide, it is the speed at which you can do so, while buying something in amazon does not require extreme speed, something as simple as buying a coffee with bitcoin is very slow.

Yeah the discussion was about buying things and he choose the way of instantly converting coins to fiat to buy things.
At a 15% "discount" rate in order to avoid the confirmation times.
Which in my opinion is plain stupid.

And what will merchants trust in you?
Just because they have a video of you entering in he store which might or might not identify you?
They will go through the hassle of filing a complain to the police wait for them to identify you (if ever) and the go to the entire costly process of getting the money through legal ways?
If they do manage that.

Nobody will give you the goods with 0 confirmations.
At least nobody with a brain at work in their heads.

At 9 am there was a 30 minutes gap between blocks.
Do you imagine all the people that enter in a shop in half an hour lining on the wall waiting for the confirmation to be able to leave with their groceries?
Who the hell is going to do that?

I think merchants will not trust if we just show our wallets. Actually I do not know how it works, as far as I know this only applies in online purchases like we want to buy clothes or airline tickets with bitcoin. Maybe if we buy directly we have to send bitcoin first and order will be delivered, maybe like that. And it takes time for bitcoins to actually get transferred. I do not know what happens if the transaction has a problem, it will take longer.

We should think about how we use bitcoin before talking about its speed. When it comes to big deals and in far-flung places in the world, bitcoins play an extremely important role that cash can not be replaced: speed, convenience and transparency. For transactions in life, bitcoin can not meet its speed, when at close range, cash takes more advantage.

Yes there is some cases of problem that Bitcoin faced at this moment. But the transactions , conformation and transaction fees is just a little things to solved. It just need development on bitcoin system so it may adopt on the market. So in transaction more people and more business will be open on accepting bitcoin on their transactions. For me confirmation is just there for authorization for security and investment.

Hm? glerand, you said as if there were not any "Double spend" happened. If real shops do accept Bitcoin without any confirmation, some people will use that to do bad things. I think there should be some rules about Bitcoin fees, some minimum fees should be asked to make sure the payments will arrive.

I think there is no problem to buy with bitcoin, Maybe it's not quick like the OP said. because all depend of fees puted in the transactions, Maybe some market they didn't want to accepted bitcoin because some buyer can set low fees which transactions can be too late, so the solution is that markets should fixed some fees for buyers.

So we should just trample all that stands for a free market and have some imposed tx.
Imposed by who? The sellers? The association of sellers of kangaroo meat? The paprika union?

No one will accept 0 confirmation tx. No matter what the fee.


It works the same be it online and in real person at mc donalds.
Your order will be cleared only after the 1 or maybe 3rd confirmation block.

Speed is essential in these days and asking people to wait 30 minutes to buy something is not an option.
Drop the block time to 2 mins and we will solve a lot of issues.

Yes, as of now we cannot really use Bitcoin as a practical way of mode of payment. This is due to the transaction confirmation waiting time that can take hours and even days, as well as the increasing transaction fees. With these issues, Bitcoin is not classified as an efficient mode of payment. However, in the near future, we will see some major improvements in the Bitcoin technology. We will see almost instant transactions with lower fees. It is only a matter of time 'til we see that scenario.

Bitcoin transaction may based on trust if you want to do quick transaction but other else , you need put huge fee for high priority if they insist .
As I know bitcoin may be slower to get confirm so for who want to accept bitcoin as their transaction may think twice

Bitcoin is another type of digital currency. It would be possible that we can buy something quickly if all stores in our country accept bitcoin. But there's a solution if other stores don't accept it, you need to convert it first into fiat currency for you to be able to buy something that you want with no worries. Its nice to hear that sooner or later, all stores or even in the market would accept bitcoin. But it took some years to approve.

There are some ways for both of you not to wait, one of them is if you both are coinbase users, if so then when you transfer bitcoin there is no need for any confirmation as it is instant since the coins are moved inside the same company. Another way is using BitGo but don't know if this applies to clients too, in this case in a coffee shop!

Not possible, even at this point where the fees have gotten lowered somewhat, the truth is the fee you need to pay for a fast confirmation is simply too high, it could be possible the fee results to be higher than whatever you are trying to buy in the first place.

The reasons businesses trust PayPal and Creadit Cards are mainly two: a. Backup/Insurance, and b. you can almost always track it back.
Both are not accepted in the culture if Bitcoin (anonymous transactions).

The solution in my opinion may be indirect by creating a wallet service (Like PayPal but for Bitcoins) which can link an ID / Alternative payment and provide a security net for businesses. This wallet needs only to confirm that it has the requested amount and assure that it will or already have sent the requested amount to the destination wallet. This will take only a few seconds.

This, however, if have a conflict with the "spirit of BTC".

As the price has increased, along with that the adoption has increased and similarly the transaction fee too increased. This becomes a big issue when more transactions get stuck on the network. So as complications increase, developers will be in search of a solution and takes a short time to rectify. Now the same is happening, the recent decrease in the transaction fee is a part of it.

If you really can't use the Bitcoin as practical way method of payment. This is because the wait time is the confirmation of transactions that can take hours and even days, as well as the increased transaction costs. With these issues, Bitcoin not classified as efficient mode of payment. However, in the near future, we will see some major improvements in technology Bitcoin. We will see almost instant transactions at a lower cost. . then it can't use bitcoin before waiting for confirmation :)

I think every user (buyer) will not believe it with the seller especially in the world of the Internet and bitcoin where their identity is very secret. Of course they will not do the transaction with trust alone. Unless one is trusted. You can use escrow help if your bitcoin transaction wants to be safe

At present, bitcoin has not been widely used so it is difficult to use it to pay for normal activities. Because merchants do not really trust bitcoin, they are still afraid to give us bitcoin payments.

yes at this stage. but we know that many businesses and stores are now adopting bitcoin. lets just give time for it to expand its assets. we all know that cryptocurrency is the future currency.

Well yeah, that's true.
It's hard if it's only based on trust.

But if we use an escrow does it mean that there'll be more fee involved, right?
yet, it's another story if the shop itself provided an escrows.

It is the future currency but the speed of transactions are not cooperating to the current needs of a business, they need a fast and reliable currency which can execute a lot of transaction in a short period of time without encountering some of the problems that can cause for bitcoin to get degrade in trust of the users and also the business owners that accepts bitcoin.

that's right, I agree with you. so I think real money is number one for that condition.

then that's a serious problem , it wouldn't work for a merchants like a supermarket and any other similar merchants where people come and go , transaction based on trust would never be a good thing in the real world . people would feel bitcoin wasn't useful at all. someone have to take care about this , yeah a stakeholder.

There are some bitcoin scaling proposals that might help bitcoin achieve faster transactions. In August 1, one of the said proposal will be implemented and will be chosen based on how many miners/pools are signalling it. After implementing the changes, we might be able to buy something with bitcoin quickly because transactions getting a confirmation might get fast again and might solve the problem of not being able to buy something quickly with bitcoin.

I have never used bitcoin in real life, but I imagine most want to wait for a confirmation, but who wants to wait 30 min or more? That's why I've never understood how people are using bitcoin in real life.

 In some cases we cant buy quickly with bicoins,bitcoin price is very high this is the reason,sometimes we need to spend less money for small things.i wish in future bitcoin will use in small shops also.
 

That is one of the priority concerns of bitcoin for now. The confirmation date is really an issue for bitcoin.

Well, if the coffee shop would only take your word that the btc is already sent, there would be no need to wait for confirmation really. But if not, what can we do?

This is the downside of bitcoin. What if the blockchain has a very heavy traffic at the exact time when you make payments? You will both wait until forever just for the coffee payment.

I think waiting for 30 minutes or more is really a big deal.  But thank God I never experienced it.  Five minutes transaction time is already long for me.  I think the factor there is the internet connection.  I do not know if the blockchain would be responsible for that.  I actually buying phone reload and even paying bills through it.  As long as I have clicked the payment button I will just wait for the confirmation.  Do not need to worry.

It was a problem which existed earlier due to high transaction fee.But now things have started changing.Transactions are now confirmed very fast with even very low fees.Situations would change more if segwit is activated on august 1st.We could then be able to buy anything quickly.

It will be based on the type of the product, which you are interested in buying and also merchant type. It takes time but, cant't wait you for long time.

Yeah I think when they start to accept Bitcoin as a payment method, they will ask buyer to send Bitcoin with a medium fee so that they can make sure that the amount of Bitcoin will arrive in their wallets.

One thing everyone has to realize as well is that Bitcoin was not created solely for micro transactions. There is so much more to this tech and that is one of the reasons I believe that BTC will be for savings and pairing/conifrming value and worth whereas some alt coins has it's place for being the cash of the internet serving these micro transactions.

Right now though, there's no issues at all on my end purchasing stuff with BTC. Done it quite a lot for a wide range of items, physical and digital.

In our technology today, there bitcoin can make transaction faster like those wallets who make fast transaction when you buy something that the problem is that they charge you with fees and the fees are very high for anyone just to waste of money in just to buy a coffee for example and the fees are so high. It doesn't really make sense, to make the fees high but they are also making money into it. I'm sure in the future it will happen and hopefully it will. Cryptocurrency will be the next big thing and it will replace our cash money what we have right now. Bitcoin has still many flows and I know someone or somewhat it can happen.

You can. Bitcoin payment is instantaneous. The problem is double-spend. But in the future it will become less of a problem.

but still there's no guarantee that proposal would fully approved by most miners/pools right? i mean the bitcoin blockchain could possibly splitted and it would just make another problem , instead solve it. and these issues what make people confused and a little bit doubt on bitcoin. 1 August are really a decisive moment for future of bitcoin to have a faster confirmation or to lost people interest.

I bought some steam games with BTC.. took 15 minutes, but they only need 1 confirmation

Just we have to wait till august 1st until segwit is activated.Then,more retailers would come forward to accept bitcoin payments since transactions would be confirmed soon.Then we would be buy any thing quickly.

Yeah right now I think 2 times if I want to use bitcoin as payment option. In addition to higher fees, as well as the confinement of bitcoin transactions slowed down. See what will happen to the future. Moreover, on August 1, something will happen to bitcoin.

That's not something to be assured about. segwit activation might have many different outcomes; good and bad.
But yes, if all goes well we can expect to see lower fees and faster transactions.

Still, the SegWit is the best scaling solution we could have given the circumstances. This is the most thought over and reliable solution.
Of course, there is a possibility that something will go wrong even with the best possible code but I am much calmer knowing that SegWit and not Bugcoin Unlimited won the scaling war.
Furthermore, I want to remark that bitcoin users are always more pessimistic about everything, paranoia runs deep within bitcoin holders. Let it go.

Yeah waiting to till August 1st is very important to us ,because after segwit bitcoin will goes to very advance currency and many people will come in bitcoin market and accept it. I am also sure after segwit people will use bitcoin very easily and many shop accept it as a payment.
 

Yes, this IS an issue with Bitcoin. The transactions are slow which can be pretty annoying especially when we need to make a quick purchase. All we can do is pray that the block size increases so that we can achieve faster transactions.

Fluctuation, paranoia and panic is what marks the bitcoin community. I've always said it, if you have heart problems better stay away from here ahah
I try not to be pessimistic but everything seems to be really unpredictable when it comes to bitcoin.

1. internet service
2. gambling
3. indian freelancers
more.....

Confirmation time is OK, but what will be with fees? Do you think you will pay for coffee 2 $ and fee for sending bitcoins also 2 $, that sounds like if you are buying coffee with bitcoins you will pay double price.
I don't like all the drama about 1 August, we are all talking about it, we have big hopes and dreams about activation of segwit, but how many of us really know whst will happen. Yes we have big dreams and hopes but that can disappear in a second, the more close the activation is, I'm more afraid, and except many argues on this forum about segwit, bu, and in last days anticipation of 1 August I didn't saw nothing solid to hold on, closer it is I'm more convinced that we can't say much before it happens.

So I think when they start using Bitcoin for their payments, they  will ask their customers to use a high fees to make sure that their payment will be received. What do you think?

Same experience here! Whenever I use my bitcoin to buy steam points or load for my phone, I just need to wait for let's say about 10 seconds or maybe less. It really does not take that long to precess your transactions.



You should try to use your bitcoin once in a while so that you will somehow understand that thought of yours. Experiencing something is the fastest way to learn about it.

At the moment it seem the spam on the network has diminished or has stopped completely because even the smallest fee you can pay to the miners will get to you on average a confirmation time at the moment of 4 hours which is not bad at all, but that will improve with segwit.

Yes. the spam attack has somewhat subsided and the network are now free of it resulting to fee going down a little and transaction times become quicker. I hope the attack will truly stop so that we can enjoy the faster confirmation time. With Segwit2x activation the confirmation time will be cut down to maybe minutes now so I guess those complaining that bitcoin is not suited for micro transaction will used it for online payment then because of the improvement.

There are a few destinations today where you'll get great straightforwardly with bitcoins. you can attempt any of them however today you must pay a ton higher exchange expense then it usual prior and even need to sit tight for quite a long time to encourage three affirmations on your exchange. This is the means by which online exchange work utilizing Bitcoin.

Most merchant have not started to accept bitcoin as the official mode of payment. Most times I buy from someone in the cryptocurrency community with bitcoin because the person knows the worth of bitcoin