Bitcoin Forum

Funny how every time the market is in a recession and losers keep holding on to their losses they magically become "long term" holders.

God damn it, "long term" is such a stupid meme. Admit it, you wanted to get rich quick and once you realised you are too dumb to swing trade you suddenly became a "long term" loser.

Such idiocity.

You think Dan Balzerian held anything "long term"?

Long term is for losers.

try asking that question to someone who long term held from 2011/12 until now. they would laugh in your face and then probably spit in it too.

Yeah, missing 2 obvious dips and buying opportunities. Ever heard about "opportunity cost"  - yeah, taht is what you get for being stupid and not seeing obvious DIPS

Dan Balzerian is literally the biggest loser ever. He never held anything else other than his criminal dad's dick in exchange for stolen money he is flaunting now.

obvious dips is obvious in retrospect.

i'll bet most people if they attempted to 'day trade' would've sold all the moment it hit $1000 and sat around for months afterwards.

Finally someone ride the same wave with me and understand what the real meaning of those two words "long term"  :-*

HAHAHA, obvious in retrospect only if you are dumb maybe.

Right now Ethereum is dipping, I can tell you right now it will dip to about $150, possibly more to double digits like $95

If you aren't shorting Ethereum right now and then buying the dip at $95-150 you are just plain dumb and hate money. So sorry for you and your family

I am a long term holder, so tell me, have I been an idiot for seeing my wealth in Bitcoin grow 500-600% throughout the years? Or are the idiots those that desperately keep trading and end up selling below the levels they bought at, and buy back above the levels they sold at? I think that's quite an easy thing to answer to right? I do some occasional trading to benefit from wide fluctuations too, so that profit comes above the gains I made from holding.

It's not an idiotic term by any means.  In fact in stocks (I think), long-term holdings actually legally refers to a year or longer holding period.  So that phrase there is one of the few in finance and crypto that I'll use.  So many are just cliche'ed to death.

And no, they're not stupid for holding.  People who held onto bitcoin for one year up until the present day have made fat stacks of money, and I am criminally jealous of them.  We must choose our battles against stupidity, and this is not one I'm going to fight.

Edit:  I think the term "hodling" is more idiotic than the actual doing of it.

If idiot means that holding Bitcoin allowed me to earn more money than I possibly could ever earn without Bitcoin, then sure, call me an idiot. :D Very important point that you miss here, is the fact that the more experienced people here have coins and funds that they specifically use for trading purposes, and enough coins in their cold wallet(s) for long term holding purposes. Only noobs focus on just one of these two options while in reality, both can be done simultaneously without any problems.

That someone reporting in with a big smile in his face  ;D

I bought in at 4$ and still holding, but I obviously diversify and hedge at critical times. For example, I sold a reasonable portion of my BTC a couple of days ago at 2700$ but I already set the buy orders at 1500$ to buy them back. Swing traders are idiots even if they manage to be profitable because it's a lot less stressful to be a long term holder than anything else. When you're going for the long term you pick a coin with really good fundamentals and legit reasons to generate a massive pump, you hold on to it for a year at least. So basically you make one good trade per year and you x10 your profits. you then are not even required to look at the charts every day. you have a shit lot of free time to enjoy life. so yeah, no need to boast about being a swing trader because we all know how stressful that is, your life sucks unless you're a no-lifer.

Heh, I mean you just justified your post that Dan Bilzerian (who bought the top) is some kind of genius. The guy was a trust fund marine who happened to be a good poker player.

Agree with Mr. Hyena, Op think ; people who holds for long term won't sell any bitcoin when bitcoin reach higher price.
People know to sell small amount of bitcoin obviously, but not all of their coins or even a half because it will worth more and more in the future.
That's what I thought about "long term".
And op should read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1980832.new#new

Just laugh at me, I'm one of those long term holder and it's fine if you will address me as an idiot as I love to keep on holding. I've been doing this for a year and it does give a very good feed back.


Anyone wants to get rich but it takes time and by holding it we saw on how many long term holders are now rich.

Or better yet, try asking that question to Warren Buffett. Hodling through volatility seems to have worked pretty damn well for him.

Been hodling since 2012. Me so idiot.  :D

I just think people who continue to use "Hodl" are idiots.

Nothing wrong with long term holding. The problem I have is when they are willing to hold it back to zero just because *insert Bitcoin maximalist reasoning here*.

I appreciate your compliment. While I understand some people like the "fun" of day trading, it's time consuming and frustrating, and I personally like to just HODL to keep track of Bitcoin's progress. It has also been quite profitable for me, as I held starting from the doldrums of 2015 all the way to today. Sure didn't lose anything yet.

your problem is that you don't understand what a long term hodl means!
it is pretty simple. you buy when all the idiots are running around saying bitcoin is dead, in other words you buy when price was ~$200 then when it goes up to $450 you can take the initial invested amount out. this is coincidentally the same time as the same idiots are running around saying bitcoin to the moon.
then price falls down because some bigger idiot said bitcoin is dead and i am leaving bitcoin AKA M.H. and you buy a lot more bitcoin in that dip and put it in your cold storage. rinse and repeat and after 2 years you have more money and bitcoin than the idiots busting their asses risking day trading.

That's the hard reality with the users all around. One may be good to make a low buying, but only the long holding profits the user rather than selling at the price pumping happening in a short time period once after buying low. Op doesn't need to complicate, just think of the early adopters. One who got it for $1 and sold for $10 is not the successful, but just on holding one who grabs the best is the successful. For the same to happen holding is a must without considering the dips and price dumps on different issues.

OP apparently thinks he's some kind of genius who knows how to call the peaks and the dips before they happen.


Some of us realize that calling the market is not so simple.


Truth is that he's ruled by his emotions just like so many other day trading sheeple. He was a bull but his spirit was broken by the 2014 bear market.


Here's what his crystal ball told him three months from the end of the bear market, with price in the low $300's:



tl;dr: OP is bitter because he dumped in 2014 and never bought back in.

hm. i have seen smarter posts you wrote.
how many times you wrote bitcoin will go down massive, but instead bitcoin price has risen massive? and put that in contrast to how many times it was clever to listen to you since bitcoin actually went down to zero?

I rather be a (rich?) bitcoin maximalist hodler, than a (smart?) bear like you harping the old "bitcoin goes to zero" tune.

finally, maybe bitcoin did never go back to zero exactly because "idiotic" maximalist hodlers?

Hey, holders! Still loving seeing your money burn to nothing loool

If any one wants to hold and keep their losses within their acceptable limit, I don't think there is any fault in doing that and moreso its their responsibility and their losses in which they are not complaining to anybody about it. We should even thank them for holding because if everybody should dump at the same time, then we are looking at price rocking the bottom in no distant time.

There's no way I can be arsed to time markets.

I don't trust any exchanges. Even if they're technically solid, I might get caught up in a verification death loop. Also selling to buy back is a taxable event where I'm at and I can't be bothered with that shit either.

Horses for courses. I'm willing to bet the majority of these trading gods wind up with less coinage in the end.

How actually burn? and why you want to encourage them to sell? to take their lose?
Honestly bitcoin still had a potencial to see increase its value so holding your bitcoin for a long time is not a problem because you can recover your loses and make profit.. because if you sell your bitcoin in low cost you will lose.. that is why we are buying bitcoins for low price and sell them in the higher price.. if we don't hold for a long time we'll not gaining any profit. .

Exactly, the price is still high for me eventhough the current price is dipping. There are people holding onto their bitcoin for simply believing it can go high in the future. So if you buy at $4000 and seeing the price right now is already 6x of your investment. So I don't see a problem holding bitcoin for a long time.

Stacking a lots of coin are not idiots like me. We are holding our bitcoin because we believe that we can get 10x more than the price today yes its not this year but it will come if you can just watch some facts about bitcoin you will know what i mean by this

Looks like OP got wrecked recently in trades.  Mind sharing it? You will not have a thoughts like that if you just noticed it to others. Maybe you owned some of the altcoins and now because bearish market are dominating today, your portfolio crashed and I just wondered if you sold it now or still holding the rope. Long term holding is applicable obviously in bitcoin even just looking at it's spectacular price performance history. But remember that it's not applicable to some of the altcoins where the usual scenario is pump and dump and go.

The term long term holding will not be created if it's not effective at most of the cases. If you are really a crypto enthusiast, you will realized how good long term holding is. There is no instant quick big profits earnings in holding because you need patience here.

You wont be seeing this large amount of price if it aint for those holders that you are calling "dumb".
You are profiting thanks to them.
Starting something like this wont get them to sell it. This people are strong enough to hold it for a long time.
Patience. They have that. Do you think they wont have patience for you?  ;D

That made my day, wtf

I will certainly try to memorize that phrase. Regarding long-term holding versus short-term trading, there is a good saying which says about someone who went for wool but came back shorn. If you are in for a quick buck, you should certainly use stop-losses. Otherwise, you are looking for trouble and can get caught naked (as per Warren Buffett). Short-term traders are a completely different folk that long-term holders. You can't be both or switch between the two

I bought my coins when they were selling for $200 each, and held them ever since. I've made tens of thousands of dollars in less than 2 years. I'm still holding. You can call me an idiot all you want... I'm happy with my choice and recommend all to keep their coins unless they absolutely need the fiat for something urgent. I may well (and am prepared to) lose most/all of it, but I do believe deeply in Bitcoin and trust that it will rise to 5-/6-digit values in the coming years.

So, I say, "Good things come to those who wait HoDL"...

How come that holding coins for a long term is a stupid act when in the end they still have profits earned?


Not all and you have no proof for that.


Call some people out there idiot who earned thousands of dollar by just holding in a long term. Also those who have gained 100x or more compared to the amount they invested in.

The only idiocy I see is using the term "idiocity" when it does not exist.


Long term is for people who have patience.

Wew it made my life!  ;D
 Just like do you ever know what these two words means?
How could you say that? Is there any thing that happened to you when you hold your bitcoin in long-term? Like I just don't get it where they come from.
Well, the only loser here is the one who posted it.
Won't explain it further.

I have done a bit of stock trading and balance is the key. When a market is obviously overheated you can sell some gradually and hold at least 25% for the long-term. Then when you buy it all back on a big dip, you have more shares than before. Perfect timing is not possible, but you can be selling (at least some) at the top, and the same for buying at/near the exact bottom.

This is such good advice, I should be asking for tips. In respect of the memory of an old friend:
"Do not pay me, just remember to do something really nice for someone else someday".   

Long term does mean you are a loser. It is okay of holding the Bitcoin for a long time but the big question is how you assure that your bitcoins are safe and secured.? Holding and saving your Bitcoin is the best way to earn big. If you think it is an idiot for you, Why are you here then? If you are not believing what a Bitcoin can do for the incoming years, so leave it. Find another way to earn money. Bitcoin helps people for their expenses in life. Called yourself an idiot for not holding bitcoin though.

I wouldn't consider them as idiots, but it also depends on how long your "long-term" is. Being a digital asset, Bitcoin is not going to last forever. Ultimately, it is going to get replaced with something better. So in my opinion, there is no point in holding your coins for 20 years or 25 years.

i don't think that they are idiots, i think they are really understand what the meaning of investment. they know and they believe that if they invest their money in something, they should wait for year, two year or more. once they see that their investment is grow then i am sure they will give a big smile and they will told us that "this is what i tell you in a few years ago but you didn't believe me".

It really depends on your strategy.  If you want to invest for the long term then your only option is Bitcoin and maybe a couple of other cryptocurrencies like LTC and XMR.  At least that's what I think that's good for long term storage.

If you want to use this type of strategy then where you enter will really matter a lot.  Getting in as a long term holder when everything is over priced would be a stupid proposition, but going in ahead of everyone while a coin is undervalued would pay you more on average than day and swing trading, unless the day/swing trader is a pro.  Which in these parts, there's not much of them. 

Still have   my $3 bitcoins , and a fuckload of cheap eth i bought for like $6 when something was hacked last year
but you keep smoking your resentment pipe son ,its obviously getting you ............somewhere  :D

OP is prolly trolling. Everyone knows the long game is the winning game.

Yeah, after a few comments I thought so too. Or maybe they are just jealous that they don't have balls to hold so they panic sell all the time)

Hope you have seen the articles of people making millions for the coins they were holding for years,if you have read those articles just google it and read it and understand how they earned their millions by investing just thousands of dollars and then come to a conclusion whether losers are the one holding the assets for a longer time.

So many life of people was changed because of the change of bitcoin price in time. Who would've known that this would happen right? And I think that being patient is essential to investors because that is what they needed foremost. If someone will be hasty in something, they will be having times where they can't get a good profit.

So what is your point exactly?

And what does that have to do with Bitcoin? I don't remember that Warren Buffett said anything positive toward Bitcoin, let's be honest here (if I'm not mistaken, he has been one of the biggest critics of the coin). Or do you actually mean to say that Bitcoin is not the asset which anyone would be happy to have if the Bitcoin network went down for 10 years? After 10 years, when the network is back online, people will likely forget about Bitcoin completely, and it will cost next to nothing

WB is the largest shareholder in wells Fargo Bank
How well would that do if it didn't bother opening for 10 years?

My brother both 20 btc for 22 dollars couple of years ago and forget that he got them. Few months ago I talked to him about btc and my activity on this forum and price of bitcoin today. He was shocked, checked his wallet and pleasantly surprised. Now he got little less than 60 thousand dollars. Worked great for him, definitely not an idiot. Me, I am young in this story, equally spending and saving and hope to have some benefits from it in the future.

Hehe no doubt about that long term holders are the ones who make easy profit without much risks and literally without any work. The people who trade can surely make a lot but it involves lot of risk and sometimes many people lose it all during this process. If you have the time then go with trading otherwise continue trying your luck

I guess what he's trying to say is: Only invest in assets where you strongly believe in the fundamentals, regardless of short to mid-term price swings.

My point was that by calling long-term holders idiots, the OP was calling Warren Buffett an idiot.

No, it's not Bitcoin specific. It's true for any asset.

He also was talking about the market shutting down, not the asset itself. The internet or blockchain failing would be the equivalent of a company failing or land sinking into the sea, not merely the market being frozen.

Exactly that. It wasn't that long ago that I have been reading through various articles that were advising to cash out the majority of your holdings as soon as we reach $1000 and higher ~ current price speaks for itself.

Seriously, it's basically like earning money while picking your nose, sleeping, staring out the window, eating. :D Anyone else who don't agree with this, is either too late, or they hodl an insignificant number of coins.

Couple of years ago? The price high for 2015 was about around $430 and price low was around $215. How is that possible that your brother both BTC20 for $22? Are you trolling here?

To OP, looks like your holding didn't go well. It's more like being an idiot if anyone will think that bitcoin is not good for long term holding. Trying to create a panic? It's impossible. To create a FUD you need to shake the market.

Did you make fun of him by typing both instead of bought or what mate you both are the same? anyways if holding was what idiots do then

I'm sure Satoshi should be feeling like a moron right now, but hey look at him, has billions of dollars just by holding, I suspect OP has lost some

Money because of the drop in price, but there is no need to panic you idiot just hold and enjoy when we reached $3000 in the coming week.

This is another way to encourage other people to sell their bitcoin just to push the price down and you know op will buy bitcoin for a cheapest price that is why he just encourage other people to sell you are idiot if you sell your bitcoin for low price..
Bitcoin is always experience  the same thing many thread made that bitcoin will be die soon or any that can push other people to sell...
The fact that bitcoin is really still alive and strong and the value is really high valued. wait for more month you can see the price increase more..

The long game works on a few selected cryptocurrencies, not all of them.  The best example would be Bitcoin.  It's the first and the most adopted of them all.  Despite it's shortcomings and all the drama going on with it, it's still proven to be the best model to follow as far as success in crypto goes.  All these new models being deployed by the new generation of ICO's remains to be unproven.  Give them a few years.

next time you are trying so hard to connect to an exchange that is down because of DDoS or whatever, and price is falling and you miss selling or when price is rising and you miss buying, at that moment remember this topic and this comment and know that these hodlers who you call idiots are laughing at you ;)

This question have many sarcastic answers, like it should have. Someone can try to trade, someone can try to gamble, some people are earning and saving and there is nothing bad in that, what more this strategy can be very good for the long run, people who save (just to point out that I'm not a saver) are thinking about future, but for 5 - 10 or more years into the future, not like me from today for tomorrow.
Long term holders, or hodlers are not idiots, its their choice and we need to respect it. Everyone have a right to decide what will do with earned bitcoins: spent it, save it, or try to make more from what you have, what ever choice you make its good and there is no discussion about it.

when people make statements like OP they are bound to receive these types of answers too.
and there is always going to be advantages and disadvantages to any method you choose. the comment above you had a good point for example. for trading, you first need a reliable place to trade at and i don't think there is anyone that doesn't know bitcoin exchanges are not reliable at all!

it is not just the risk of them turning into a new Mt Gox but it is all the delays, the downtimes and the bugs they have. bitstamp went down yesterday at the peak of trades, i think a couple of others did too although it was very short. poloniex always goes down when altcoins are dumping....

you see the reliability is not there so you can't really blame people for not wanting to go through all the agony of trading :D

I tend to agree. In the early days, a lot of the users were spending their Bitcoins very carelessly. The story about the 50K pizza purchase is very famous. Only a select few decided to save their coins. Almost all of them are millionaires now.

We have no choice to agree this.Why because the cost of bitcoin is keeps on increasing now a days. If u keeps your bit coin for longer. Whose know even u may become a millionaires. Their is a chance to become a millionaires too.No one can judge the price of the bitcoin in future.

I really do think that you are just salty that you didn't get into the bull run beforehand.

Obviously, short term trading is able to generate you more profit, but with that increased profitibility, comes a much larger risk.

Bitcoin is a disinflationary currency, meaning that in the long run, the supply will pretty much stablilize, and price will climb steadily as more people use bitcoin, demand goes up by supply cannot be altered.

If you are a trader, obviously you're going to go with short term to medium term trades. But if you are just an average Joe without the trading experience, then long term holding is a good idea as bitcoin is a store of value.

I never think long time holders are idiots. Maybe they are missing to get a profit by short term trading but we can't blame them if they don't want to take a risk on it. I actually admire them that they can resists not to touch their coins for a long time. And how many of the bitcoiners today can do the same thing, only few. I would do the same if i'm also holding a decent amount of btc.

It's his evil twin, obviously

Regarding Bitcoin being a deflationary currency as has been mentioned before, technically it is so, but it doesn't mean that its price is set to rise indefinitely. First, with prices rising price volatility is set to rise even faster, up to a point when the price would lose any meaning as a reference point. Further, we should not forget about altcoins, and if Bitcoin rises, they will rise too, and as is the case with volatility, they will rise faster, up to a point where they will start to receive more liquidity than Bitcoin (in absolute terms). In fact, both of these points have already been proven in practice. The bottom line is that Bitcoin price may hit a ceiling one day with the demand for it running dry

if you ask any "long term" bitcoin holder if they thought you were an idiot
I think they would nod or just smile into their bushy,millionaire,well groomed moustache
they are clearly not "idiots",they stuck to what they thought was right and got rewarded for it
not running around the yard-forum like headless chickens after every 10% price movement ,while the homegrown free range analysts
are predicting demise for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general every other day

maybe if you become a holder yourself now,in 10 years time,some aspiring newbie will post a topic like that,asking if 2017 holders are idiots :)
with bitcoin valued at 97.560.00 $ a piece,that is

Indeed, I don't think bitcoin holders are not idoit. Instead I salute those people who are hold their bitcoins for a long because they manage to wait and now they gain a high profit especially on who hold their bitcoin since 2009. Because of their patience they became rich so that don't underestimate the bitcoin holders.

Think I remember his shitposting from the last bear market.

In general holding is a winning strategy because the market, like OP, is still going through puberty.

I mean, exchanges are still going down during dumps, ETH can't handle ICO load and dumps on 4chan Proof of Vitalik, Bitcoin has been debating scaling for years.

Big ups, big downs, but the bet is that crypto as a whole starts taking market cap from gold, forex etc etc.

Post 2020 halving should be the real deal ;)

Being up 200% in 4 years... I have smashed everyone in the stock market.. soo no I think I am a fucking god.

Absolutely agree. I may suppose also that they just repeat what other people say, but don't realize those people bought it for 10-100 $, of cause for them it's just a small correction.

Active traders must be the losers especially with respect to bitcoin markets. There are many common saying like losses also part of trading / no one will be capable of predicting exact high and low then holding long term must be a wise decision. Long term holding eliminates all these problems of usual trading.

Satoshi Nakamotto must be a good example here. He holds his bitcoins from day one of bitcoin ecosystem that is the reason, it is believed his positions must be valuing more than $3 billion.

200% is obviously a very decent return, but in four years time I would have expected you to net more than that, how come? If you are the original creator of your account, you have had enough opportunities to buy a large number of coins below the $300 level back in 2015. If you combined that with some buying low and selling high, you would have made some great profits on top of that.

Well every person have their own perspective and idea when it comes to holding, I would say, I respect their idea and point of view.  No need to argue or brag about it especially someone pretending to know it all.  I am into a long term holding but would cash out in an instance if the needs arises.  And I would have said the opposite of what OP had stated.  Most who sold all their bitcoin during the early years are having the huge regrets of their life. 

Auto typing mistake(both). Can happened. Yes 2015 price you said. I have never said what year, I said couple of years ago. I think that year was 2010...

This is a glaring case of selection bias (read more in Wikipedia)

If you want to consider Satoshi Nakamoto as an example here, you should also consider a few hundred creators of shitcoins (as well as thousands of shit coin bag holders) who didn't even remotely succeed at holding their coins. And you can be dead sure that the ratio is not in favor of Bitcoin. Apart from that, absolute holding without buying and selling from time to time is a losing strategy in the long term. Bitcoin is inevitably set to die one day (and that day may in fact be closer than you think), and if you keep your coins longer than that, you will lose all

Who really knows whether Satoshi Nakamotto is still holding those coins,what i mean by that is,he might have lost access to his coins or he might have destroyed all the private keys he is holding,if not he would have cashed in already with the price so high.As a trader you have to move according to the market sentiments,if you are to hold for a longer period ,so be it,there is nothing wrong in it,no one can make money pretty quickly as the OP might think.

Hodling > Your favorite exchange accidentally all your 1337 trading gainz

Also, let's not forget the Pareto principle and you can be damn certain it applies to those who play markets. 20% are profiting from the 80%. If you are good enough to be in the 20%, good for you, but most of us aren't.

It's quite a harsh take on holders, but you need to understand what long-term means to people. I understand long term to be a period of years, not months. And financial industry people also see long term to be > 5 years. It sounds to me like you are talking about "recession" when there is no long term or even medium term recession going on in crypto.

Long term is for those who have money and there is no problem to such people to invest a part of their capital in some promising project. If their expectations do not come true they will not regret.
I think real fools are those who haven't money at all and put it in some project without any thinking, just because of some of their friends or relatives did so.

I don't think the phrase "long term" is actually applicable here

It seems that you are mostly talking about venture investments here and such investments last as long as required until they bring enough profits and then the investment is closed by selling the asset or share in the business, or the whole investment gets lost if the business doesn't make it. So it is not about a specific term as such (unlike many Bitcoin investments that have a certain time horizon). The OP obviously means bag holders who bought a few bitcoins in the hope of making quick profits but when the price didn't go the way they expected, they turned into "long term investors"

To most English speakers "a couple of years " usually means two years, more or less.

To me what is more idiotic is trying to buy the bottoms and short the peaks.

You attack people when you can't even type properly.  Is that a "member" account, lol, good luck.  If you were so smart, then perhaps you would be posting something besides negative information, and perhaps you would have fewer questions in your other threads and other accounts. 

This is not rocket science and even though the forum is not the blockchain, you can be seen from every angle in the games that you play.

Huh? Why so defensive, I wasn't attacking. I was just as confused as freebutcaged - so much so that I went back and checked the 2015 charts.

I don't think long term holders are idiots.
I know people think that tonnes of cryptocurrencies are nothing but trash. But in reality there are dozens of useful ones you can stay hold long.

Long term holders are not idiots they are just minimizing risk while lessening some profits, nothing more and nothing else, if you are talented you can make a lot of money in trading, but that is not for everyone.

Exactly, long term wise we all know that bitcoin as a cryptocurrency is going to revolutionize the way people think and use banking services. It's going to improve the world for the better. As more people join bitcoin and use it, the supply won't increase the way fiat currencies increase in monetary supply all the time. Therefore, the supply basically stays at the same level, whilst the demand grows, driving price up.

Long term is quite safe, because you're getting rid of all the short term volatility. Short term investors are taking on a much larger risk than long term investors, and will yield much less because they're focused on making $100 per coin, instead of potentially tens of thousands.

I guess you don't quite understand how short term trading actually works

First, short term traders cannot possibly take on a much larger risk since their risks are in fact even less. Most likely, you meant to say that, in your opinion, they can only earn small profits, but that works the other way round in respect to risk specifically. Further, if we actually talk about profits and not risks, this is not even the case in respect to profits. I don't mention that buying on dips allows you to multiply your profits a lot better than simple and idle holding (that should be self-evident), but you don't necessarily need to follow just that strategy alone (so-called BTFD). For example, if you have sold and the price goes up, you can still buy back even at a higher price. In this case, you won't be any worse than a long term holder

what you are saying doesn't make sense, because by your logic the same person also missed, fortunately, the opportunity to lose more than two time if he was to trade like you want him to do

by just holding with bitcoin you will ensure a big profit in the futurte, just by waiting the value to increase, and the value will increase

long term holding doesn't really lessen the profit though! it is still a pretty huge amount of profit. for example last year price was about $500-$600 and now it is $2500 and that is a 5x profit in a year. you can't say it is a small profit.

and besides, OP is confusing long term investment and holding with the HODL meme.

Long term holding may also be the result of someone's belief in a particular cryptocurrency and such long term holders might be the staunch supporters of that particular cryptocurrency. They have faith in it and they like it because of the unique features it has. If the early adopters of bitcoin didn't have faith and didn't hold bitcoin for this long they wouldn't have been billionaire today. So long term holders shouldn't be looked upon as idiots.

Thing is you cannot be sure. All goes with probabilites. For sure, you can get a lot more trading and moving the coins instead of holding, but the probabilty of succeeding is much lower too.

Warren Buffet is only in long-term, and yet he is the most successful investor of our time.

Yeah right long term holders are not idiots because they know the basic tools of holding and hold their bitcoin are using save in wallet as a investment ,more also they will decrease their risk threfore they will holding .Moreover, if they start trading there has a lot of chances to earn a lot of money ,you right but it will require talent to make money from trading.

Admit it, you didn't catch the bull wave because you dumped too soon and you suddenly became a "short term" meme :D

Just joking man. I think that always holding for the long term is not the best thing you can do with your coin, as if you can buy at the lows and sell at the highs in the short term and always have say, 50% of your wealth dedicated to bitcoin, then that would be the ideal situaiton. But purely aiming for short term trades isn't smart either, because you usually end up losing out on a lot of pumps because you dump way too early.

Long term wise bitcoin is always going to be up, it's going to be the safest option for any bitcoin trader if you're not experienced enough to see the patterns and trends in the short to mid-term.

Focusing on the short term means that you're going to be affected by all the volatility. It's extremely hard to concentrate and make the right decisions when so many people are yelling at you to do one thing or another.

Long term investments not only mean that you're going to be able to realise the potential of what you invested in far greater than short term can do, it also cuts away all the volatility. If you invest in a good investment like BTC, long term you're going to profit. If not, then long term you're going to lose out. Short term is only useful for leverage which is extremely risky.

You could argue the same thing with that mate exchanging 30,000 or 300K Bitcoins for a pizza, that is

Some short term investment like never seen before :).

Well that's not really an investment. It is merely a trade, a quite iconic trade in bitcoin history as well because it is the first trade involving tangible items that are delivered in real life, for bitcoins.

Long term holders are definitely not idiots. In fact they are the smart ones.

Two examples that i have experienced myself:

- I bought digibyte when it was like 30 or 40 sats each, and sold at 50 more or less thinking that i got a great deal on it. Then a year later, i look at digibyte charts and it's at 1xxx sats.
- I bought bitcoin when it was $200, sold at $400. Again, thought it was a great deal, doubled my money right? After the halving i started regretting. Then look at where bitcoin is now.

Though always holding could be not the best option, for example if there is obviously a bubble then you should sell some off.

no they are not, but it would not hurt to diversify to hedge your position into a few other alts.

Though that doesn't mean that you or anyone else are going to be as successful

Warren Buffet is successful not because he is long term overall but because he certainly knows what assets to invest in. Obviously, if you invest in right assets, most likely it will be long term investments since anyone in his right mind would choose long term profits over short term ones. To put it differently, just going long term without knowing anything about the asset you invest in cannot be a recipe for success in and of itself. You will still be gambling and likely fail in the end

Yeah I'm an idiot and had already bitcoin when the price is only at $350 so I did hold it out because of people telling here that it will become higher soon. And I listened to those people because I'm an idiot and now the price of bitcoin is $2,400 something and it's even getting higher. Hooray for myself, an idiot.

10k. Sometimes I wonder what ever happened to the guy that received the Bitcoins. Guy must be living on a lifetime supply of Pizza by now.

Think of it like this, OP.

Long term wise, more peolpe are definitely going to accept bitcoin both as merchants and just as everyday users, right? So the demand for bitcoin as a global currency will definitely increase in the long term. But unlike fiat currencies, the supply isn't able to go above 21 million. It's restricted by lines of code. So that's the reason a lot of us believe in bitcoin, and why we're holding for the long term.


Hahaha, well played sir.

There is one caveat, though

That is, you should never forget that until you book your profits they will remain only paper profits (read they could evaporate a lot faster than it took you to accumulate them). As the Russian proverb goes, chickens are counted by the fall. If we rephrase it, it could be said that profits (Bitcoin profits, obviously) are counted by August. So don't be an idiot and cash out at least some coins until it is too late. You can always buy back later when the dust settles and the sun shines bright again. Right now it looks more like a rainy weather with likely a severe storm dead ahead

Somewhat agreed.

When you cash your bitcoins out though, you're presented with pieces of paper that if not because of the government would be otherwise consideed quite worthless. So it's quite subject what is real value, and what is not. Some may consider bitcoin as a long term investment and they wouldn't care less about the short term movements in price. But you're right, if you can cash out at the highs and buy at the lows, that would be ideal.

time is the greatest deciding force in investments. If you have a good investment then time is going to make the investment grow even more, and imo bitcoin is a great long term oriented investment. There is no need for messing about with short term markets.

yeah it would hurt, and it would hurt a lot if you choose a wrong altcoin or any altcoin at the wrong time and invest in it. the dumps of altcoins are crazy.
if bitcoin goes down 10% in a day at worst times, an altcoin can easily lose half its value in 2 hours at best case dump.

not saying trading altcoins is not a good idea but saying considering them as a real investment is bad.

the buy-and-HODL or buy-and-forget strategy is actually hard to beat in the long run even by good traders. the daytraders may be able to scalp well short term but you cannot time the market for so long. at some point you will get caught up in bad trades and then later forget about the long term prospects of the coin you are into.

Thanks for those words actually I'm enlightened now if I'm going to sell some or not. I've been planning to sell and just wait for the price at dip and then start buying again. But I'm always late on doing that thing. And so it's final that before August 1 the price of bitcoin is going to be at dip? If that is so, I'm going to sell within 5 days.

You likely meant to say subjective, right?

If so, I can't possibly consider what you meant to say as subjective at all. If we talk about dollars as "pieces of paper", then right now these pieces of paper have a lot more objective value than Bitcoin (value as utility, obviously) since you can buy with dollars virtually everything which can only be bought with money at all and virtually nothing with Bitcoin directly. So for most practical intents and purposes, it is an objective measure, i.e. a measure which is based on firmly established facts, not on conjectures and speculations (what might or might not be)

Nope I don't really think that long term hodlers are idiots,
Some hodlers make a huge amount of profit from holding their coins,
There are some news about a high school drop out who became millionaire because of bitcoin.
So I really don't think that long term hodlers are idiots he invested in bitcoin when he was only 12 and became millionaire at the age of 18.

I still own Bitcoins that I bought back in 2013 or 2014, I don't remember exactly but I remember I paid ~225$ for each. Two weeks ago I was talking about Bitcoin with a friend, he is not really aware how bitcoin works ect, he still thinks bitcoin is the money for the dark web... When I told him I own Bitcoin bought back in 2013-2014 for 225$ and now the price is ~$2500, he called me asshole, and told me why the fuck don't you sell them? Well for an asshole it's not a bad ROI currently...

I've been called a faggot when BTC went above 2000$ and the person who got pissed knew I bought in at 4$ :D

Definitely,history is clear before us.Price of bitcoin was earlier $250 and it was $1000 in january 2017 and now in july 2017,its price is $2500.I think that OP has missed the chance of buying bitcoins at a much lower price and so he is speaking these words due to jealousy ha ha ha.

It's a sore loser. If faggot means that you have made it, then so be it. :D I have been named plenty of things (mostly not all that positive) for having close to 50% of my wealth in Bitcoin. But hey, I am sitting here with a big smile, while I know that they have been lagging behind big time, with their wealth sitting in their savings account. I personally bought my first coins between $20-$25 in early 2013, from which I still have an x number sitting untouched in my wallets. I was wondering, have you kept your $4 coins in cold storage till now without touching them, or have you been moving them back and forth?

Wow, congratz. I actually had the opportunity to buy bitcoin at $100 like a lot of other people did as well. But we didn't take action.

---

The monetary supply of a currency in my opinion is one of the most important ways of determining whether or not it is worth it to hold it for the long term or not. Fiat currencies are known for notorious government intervention, and oftentimes the fiat currency ends up being worthless pieces of paper.

Gold and bitcoin are similar in the way that there is only a certain amount of bitcoin available to be mined. So even if the amount of demand for bitcoin only increases by 5% each year(impossible imo), priec is going to go up in the long term as demand outpaces the rate of inflation.

Long term holding is the safest strategy out there. The only way to profit in the short term as much as you do in the long term is to margin trade, and that isn't worth the risk in my opinion.

Increased capital gains taxes from frequent trading must be considered. Those paying a capital gains tax of e.g. 30-40%+, need to make excellent trades for trading to pay off.

There are also huge risks involved with shorting cryptos. I asked the TradingView chat about how how the hell so many of them said they lost all their money. The common theme? They were all shorting cryptos, and the whales destroyed them.

Let's see if your prediction comes true. It seems likely, but not guaranteed, as you make it sound. Remember that many people are buying and holding ETH simply for ICO investment, so TA must be taken with a grain of salt (as always).

For those of us who got in cheap, e.g., $8, a correction all the way to $95 is easily manageable. I sold half my ETH at $400 as a hedge, but I'm holding the other half to avoid the tax implications of capital gains. I believe believe the average person using a portfolio strategy (buy pre-pump lows of innovative projects, sell exponential pumps), is massively outperforming the average active trader.  Traders may get better exits on short and medium term moves, but the most reliable way to win is to buy innovative projects super low before the swing traders get in, and hold them until hysteria hits.

If capital gains tax did not exist, I would be trading more actively using Ichimoku. But I've run the numbers, considered the odds, and would rather spend my time on other things than trying to time perfect entries and exits to compensate for increased tax load.

why don't you swap cryptos then? don't trade fiat and you're good to go. one only has to pay taxes when the fairy dust settles and becomes something real. they can't tax fairy dust, can they :D ?

"hey man, you gained +200% by trading the GovernmentSucksCoin against WeedCoin so if you kindly sent us our share that would be great, and we will make sure you will get another copy of that memo"

early believers are now the god of crypto since they have their btc when its still to cheap and since they called themselves idiot they are not enjoying that stupidity of believing, well its still early being stupid and believes i guess so make your own now.

I bought bitcoins for the first time in 2015, it was around 0.7BTC. By that time I had bought it to pay a cloud on Mega and maybe other services that would require it. But other services didnt appear so I hold it until now. By march-may I started buying more, now I have near 2BTC and will keep holding it since I think it will jump even higher.

I think it's a matter of your own belief and even if others looking at the holders of long term is an idiot, for me it's not a problem. The proof will speak against what these nevative peoples were thinking about stupidity by the holders who valued much more of their saving of bitcoin in their wallet. Maybe those critics behind bitcoin should invest and experience how challenging a bitcoiner holder is, and I can prove them the best of what I have within a long time investments.

For me they don't look like an idiot at all if they are selling at huge price changes such as this and rebuying it when a huge dump occur like what happened in 2013. If they would not sell some, their profits would just be an imaginary one because they don't obtain the returns of their investments yet so its better for them to just trade it when crazy price movements occur.

This is only one part of the equation

Scarcity is not a guarantee of future value (or just any value at all), it is one of the required properties but certainly not the most important one. Utility is, i.e. usefulness for attaining specific ends which are pursued by enough people (e.g. earning profits). There was a coin simply dubbed 42Coin, and its creators naively (or not so naively) assumed that it should cost 1 million dollars apiece simply because only 42 coins should have been mined. Needless to say that it quickly got trashed as all such utterly useless coins eventually get

No.

I know some people that keep all of their long term investments in fiat currencies that have the built in feature of losing value over time.

i think the long term investment is the best investment, they are in fact the wisest people who invest their money for long term, in fact there is very little risk in long term investment while short term investment is really risky.

Asking this question to the person who has help to his bitcoins since 2009 or 2010 can give you surprising answers. People in the pas bought the bitcoins at the rate of $1 per coin, now the person who bought only 200 bitcoins has over $400,000 right now, that’s why bitcoin is getting more famous day by day. It is being accepted and adapted by hundreds of thousands of people daily, because it’s efficient, secure, profitable and much more. So of you don’t have a need to spend your bitcoins than you should not.

there will always a risk when it comes to make money , especially in cryptocurrency world.
where everything go up and down so quickly and hard to predict.
i just make a guessing that those people who have no time enough to follow the market charts is the one who hold for long term investment instead as an idiot or whatever it is.

Mot all them are idiot there are reasons behind mostly people are holding there coin because they using it for them to bank their money and it is like they earning money by stocking or holding their coins but others using it for some business and they just like gonna hold em all for the future they wanna millionaire or what the fact is they earning while waiting for the lrice to increase but also they can earn again from trading or by investing their bitcoins.

Many long term holders see bitcoin as their only way to store their wealth without government intervention and influence. Gold can be confiscated, fiat currencies are too weak and can collapse at any given moment. Bitcoin is a pretty good alternative for anyone interested to store their wealth in.

So calling every single long term holder out there idiots is just BS. In fact, long term holding of bitcoin has proven to be one of the most profitable activities of the past decade or so. If you held bitcoin from 2010 to 2017 then you would have outpaced bank interest by a whole lot.

But it doesn't mean that by buying bitcoin when it is obviously in a bubble and holding it in the long term is a good thing to do, it's still going to profitable probably but not the best thing you could have done.

I don't know many successful CryptoCurrency traders... Most, even the smart ones don't know when to quit while they're ahead and go on to lose it all...
 
On the other hand, I know plenty of people who are successful hodlers, bought btc at whatever price and stored it securely  over years etc

It just grows and grows and grows....

I put some change money on a few shitcoins with good fundamentals  like xmr, ltc and etc and they're all worth hundreds of % more than I paid years ago...

It DOES pay to hodl, don't listen to the bullshit

Yeah the wisest people are invest their money for long term and long term investors are always the wisest people because they are more expert in investment. Suppose if they are idiots then they invest their money for short term.And more, long term investors are always successful for their own projects.

This all goes back to can you afford the loss of what you invested.

Not a matter of long term are holders or not.

The basics of can you keep up with re-buying back in if there is a potential price growth you miss out on and how fast.

Since most cant do both of these its better to look at other areas right now to profit and set a realistic price mark for yourself.

I dont thing long term holders are idiots by the fact they hope their saves are going on a high prise due to the years and some of them got what they hoped for

Yes you are right that long-term investors are not idiots because they invest their money for the purpose of save in it,and also invest for the purpose of profit. Moreover, the long term investors when invest their money in those business or crypto currency first they seen the market cap and then they invest their money and then they will gain more profit.

By holding short term and trading it, it will faster to gained profit, so you can get rich faster, but long time holder is also not bad, some of the early adapter gained so many profit by holding long term, and long term investment is suitable for someone that don't really understand trading

Anyone else think OP is a fucking idiot?  ;D

I don't think so they are idiots. They just want to be on the safer side and doesn't want to lose money. Very few people take risks on their investments, some make money and some disappear. So, as Bitcoin is in huge demand they want to hold for Long.

Long term investment must be limited to assets with extremely low risk, such as large-cap equities, bullion (gold, silver, platinum.etc) and treasury bonds. For a high risk asset such as Bitcoin, I would rather suggest short-term to medium-term investment. Please note that long-term investment in my opinion is any investment over 10 years in duration.

No. Long term holders that have seen their stash gain any sort of insane value throughout the years are the idiots here. They have put themselves in the position where they don't know what to do with their money anymore. It has piled up to such a level, that it isn't even funny anymore. The worst part is that it will only increase more in value in the forthcoming years. Life is hard. :-\

I think bitcoin is the best place to make long-term investments. If you are a business, profit is always important, and to achieve that you need to be patient.

People who learned long time ago about bitcoin did the right thing with holding it, but we can't compare Bitcoin 2011/2012 against Bitcoin now, when everyone knows about it and the price is thousand times higher! I suppose those early adopters already cashed their coins this year, and made nice profits. But people who JUST entered the market and are planning to "hold" are too late to the party.

Some good reading:

https://www.clivemaund.com/article.php?id=4444

Well i am a long term losser for a long time now and no regrets so far ;)

Everyone has their own opinion.I personally believe in holding for long period of time so according to you I am also an idiot.If by being an idiot I am earning huge amount of profit then I would love to be an idiot only.You should ask from the people who are holding their BTC's from 2-3 months or even before that how their idiotism has helped them to earn huge amount of profits.According to me long term investments in Bitcoin are the best way to earn more profits because Bitcoin price is increasing and it has a very bright and positive future .So I don't consider "long term" holders as idiots.

The only problem with long term holders is they have to sell at some point before the drop to 0 in some number of decades. If they never sell then theyll have nothing to show for it even if we temporarily go to $10,000,000 and they're billionaires. At the very least they have to dig up their keys and transfer to a new wallet when EC gets broken. It's not like they can just go on vacation and forget about bitcoin for the rest of their lives until retirement.

Well some people have a backbone and care about their own principles and ideas

I wait till I can shop every where using my satoshi, I don't need to convert / sell it for fiat.

Long term hodlers will save them a lot of time. They just need to buy the coin that they are interested in and check back after few years to realize that they are millionaire by that time. Save the time and troublesome to buy lombo for long term hodlers. They are actually the most clever one.  8)

And I'll bet that guy would've given the same 'advice' when it returned to $1000. My father told me to 'save myself' at $2000. My brother in law recommended self salvation a few days before it broke into four figures again.

I'll trust my own judgement based on years of obsessing, not some nincompoop who spent a few hours perusing mainstream media. The time for when those major gains are gone is still far ahead and by then Bitcoin will be deflating at which point you're likely to get steadier and eternal gains.

People are more than sensible to take a proportion out if it's a suitable sum, but they'd be very stupid to go all out unless it's already a life changing amount and it'll still be eaten by inflation.

The media and places like here are now crammed with final calls. Holders are still here and prospering.

I'll guess the posters with problems with long term holding are mainly day traders who completely pissed it up a wall thinking they were geniuses until they weren't. We see it here every day. If they didn't then respect, but I would've ballsed up no doubt.

If we are experiencing an S-Curve adoption then we are not in a bubble. It could very well be, we go to 8k on this down leg. But we have seen this movie before haven't we? So many Bitcoin crashes and so many more new all time highs.

If we are experiencing an S-Curve adoption of crypto currencies ( not just Bitcoin ) . Also If we are experiencing the ability to transfer value over the internet as a new layer over the internet. Then you have not seen anything yet in terms of price.

If you are new to Bitcoin , I imagine it is difficult to buy at these prices. However an argument could be made there is more risk being out of the crypto space than being in it. This would be especially be true if the old system is dying, and we (world Pop) has lost trust in Governments.

Have you lost trust in Governments? Or do you feel lucky? ( lucky in the sense that governments are going to save the day. )

I do not agree. If a coin/ token has a certain value / good application with a reasonable vision supported by a good team, then stay cool and relax... look twice a year at the market and your cyptos..."long term" holders are smart ...

I believe that $12.5K is the ABSOLUTE floor. Good luck!

Why risk so much when long time HODL'ing is a stress free make certain money strategy.
You get greedy = you lose.

I don't think that people which are held for a long term will get a stress because I think they have a plan that makes them become a hodler and I am sure that they prefer to be a hodler. I think many of us are a hodler too and we still hodl some of the coins we have because we don't want to sell it at a cheap price. but I agree with your word that you get greedy then we are lost and we should avoid become greedy.

I think there are people who buy bitcoin as a way to invest in the long term, but I think that only those who start now can be a bit more difficult to buy at the current price

I do not agree with your opinion. of course they are have some reason to hold their coin for long term and they know better what they do than you.. and surely they are more experienced than you. so far many people become rich because they are hold bitcoin for a long time..

hi.where are you and why did you leave your coin els....we truat you and no updates from you  before monthes

Another reason why HODLing is smarter.

YOU CAN STORE THEM OFFLINE IN A PAPER WALLET.
and never get goxxed...

Just keep the paper wallet away from fire, dogs, etc :D

Seems like many people think you are an idiot OP. Holding is the best way to go for most of us. Don't listen to this clown he only wants you to try trading and lose.

There is a place for traders but that is a select few that know what they are doing, calculate risks and don't get emotional where things go bad.


HODL = GOOD
TRADE = GOOD
GREED = BAD

You know I heard the exact same thing when BTC was at $200.   Man it's just way to expensive to invest now... Really it's always to expensive to invest in anything if you look at it that way.   All I did was take 200 a month and invest that in BTC or other Cryto's..   If you buy it , hold it.  I'm kicking myself for dumping 2000 DASH back then.  Bought it and didn't really know what to do with it. So just traded it in on a couple bitcoins and other coins.  Today that would be about 100 btc. 

See, little investment.. huge return for holding.   Crappy return for trading.

It’s not about idiots everyone have his own point of view some of the people they like trading and some of the people they like investment then some investors are not waiting for long time and some of them they are waiting for long time but all of them can help you in your future so I think no need to blame or point out some one about its idea in my opinion everyone they are doing best for their future and I’m also doing long term investment.

I don't have anything against anyone who decides to hold for a long term and with all suggestions for everyone else to do so as well, don't get me wrong I'd be holding btc as well if I had the conditions to do to, but with the situation like that right now where most of the people who have btc are holding it, don't deny that bitcoin is turning into an investment asset.

Sadly, it's probably what will ti remain as in the future, but no, I don't think that long term holders are idiots. They've turned out to be huge winners in btc case.

The only idiots in here are the ones who are not holding.. not the ones who are holding bitcoins, there is a big, big difference in there.
I dont like the people who is sooo obsessed about bitcoin, but yes, the holders are good people and of course that most of them are wealthy guys.

idiot 
The above word is a bit harsh, but you must know the people who sold, at least some BTC, above $19K and bought back below $15K are laughing at people like YOU!
Peace and LOVE to you this season.   :D

You know how is really laughing? Someone who sold BTC at $1100, multiplied those gains by 1000% with some other investment, instead of the funds sitting hodl limbo during crypto winter for 2 years, and THEN used those proceeds to rebuy 50 times more coins at $180.

Those who holds in long term, those people are thinking their future and the future price of bitcoin of course, they think bitcoin price will increase for up to $30k, and as of now we still have almost $13-14k, it drops after it hit $18k. But those who holds in long term take advantage with that dips to invest more than they have right now.

This forum in general inspires very little confidence regarding the financial capabilities of people.


Your comment has a few problems:

1) It's nigh on impossible for people to perfectly time entering and exiting the market at recent historical high/lows - if you could do this with such great accuracy on Bitcoin you would probably do better day-trading shares.

2) No non-speculative (i.e. irrationally risky) investment offers a 10x return over 2 years. At least not to the general public - there might be exceptions if you had particular knowledge in the finance industry, and had a very large investment pool to play with.

Some stocks did well in 2015 and 2016. Nintendo had some good runs. Not 10x unless you used leverage.

I remember being a Pokemon Go early adopter and seeing how big and magical it was and knowing that I should buy Nintendo shares right then. But all my money was in fucking hodl. After that Nintendo went up 100-150% in days.

I believe that those long term hodlers are the ones who have benefited the most from the huge growth of bitcoin. We all know that and calling them idiots because of that is absurd. In fact, many people are envy for those who have the chance to hold as much and as long as they can and wishes that somehow they have also known bitcoin at that time. We know that because the price of bitcoin reaches a new level for this year, its popularity has also grown and for those who have their bitcoins in their wallet for a long time surely have made a fortune out of it.

We've been having this discussion since bitcoin first started trading back in 2011.

I guess it depends. Some of the early bitcoiners thought like you and when they sold the coins they bought for $2 for $32, that they were making a smart move. But the guys who held till $15,000 were smarter.

The question is, will we ever see gains like we have seen in the last 9 years. If you think the answer is No, then selling is the right thing to do. If teh answer is yes, then holding is the right thing to do.

My personal view is that while holding worked well in the past, if bitcoin can't fix it's fee problem, it will get bypassed and we've therefore seen the highs and it's downhill from here.

Someone who bought 1,000 BTC for 1 USD each and is still holding qualifies as a greedy person. That person could cash now 14,000,000 $ (14 Million!), but if he is holding just because he expects the price to go higher still, that's greed, plain and simple.

Being greedy can be very risky, because one can see reduced his gains if BTC crashes to the half, like the current trend seems to show.

No that person has a vision and doesn't think in fiat terms, what is the dumbest thing you can do in times of massive inflation in each nation state currency!
Not everyboy is in Bitcoin just for the money!
This is not why Bitcoin was created! Hodlers who are holding for many years now and studied Bitcoin know what it is really about!
A global financial renaissance with sound money which provides you financial sovereignty and total freedom!

only idiots will think this. Long term hodlers are always winners and short term sellers are always losers.
This trend will continue until halving around 2019

Not everybody is in Bitcoin just for the money! ==> Agreed.

I am talking about the holders that ARE ONLY because of the money. And they very likely outweigh in number to those that are there because of the philosophy behind bitcoin (which I really like, by the way)

It all depends on the investor's strategy. It doesn't matter whether you do short term trading or hodling for long term investment, what matters is your own goal and strategy. Profit is still a profit. Do not let greed take over and learn from your mistakes to be a better and wiser investor/trader.

Wont give a Cent to the government as taxes, so HODL is the only option.

Long term is well known not to be the most profitable strategy but for people with no skills or no interest in trading it has thus far been a very lucrative and effective strategy so I don't get the need to beat up on it.

I was not yet in the forum when you posted this but I think you just lost a double profit there. All I can say is hahaha. Pretty sure holding is for losers when they are currently holding the same amount with thousands of dollars more in value. (  ;D respect )
When you posted this, value of BTC is about $3k. Even holding from midyear until today could give you sure good bucks.
Let's not be talking nonsense. Volality is crazy and no one can really predict a certain value. Hodl or sell value will definitely move.

No. in fact, the long-term bitcoin holders are the smartest guys ever because the moment you cash out you lose by spending while they left their money in bitcoin for the next years to come. Imagine, the price of bitcoin in the next 5 years and where is your current bitcoin investment by that time?

Hodling doesn't yield you anything until you sell, so in that regard it might be right to say that it isn't the most profitable thing to do, but you can also choose to combine hodling with trading to increase the number of your coins.

From that point you are taking advantage of both worlds to maximize your profits, and that's honestly the best way forward if you don't mind taking an extra bit of risk. People shouldn't underestimate how difficult trading is.

If it really was as easy as some people here say it is, then they would have upped their game and refrain from acting like complete noobs. In most cases if people talk about them trading, it's actually them guessing/gambling.

I would not think that they are the ones who do not understand about the future of the transaction so that it will definitely grow in the future. I'm very sure bitcoin will be a means of transactions in the future so I'm sure the price will surely be more than now. Therefore I will hold it until I feel this has been very profitable.

Long term hodlers are idiots? Are you serious? Long term hodlers is the most clever one I think. They avoided themselves from getting into depression when the price of bitcoin is dipping and they can even enjoy their life happily without spending too much time on watching charts and trade. I think they are the most profitable one after ten years time.

Long-term holder since 2012 reporting in. I'm 28 and already in a position where I can live good life and never have to work again, all thanks to long-term holding for 5 years. I started off as a poor IT student with just 2000$ initial capital. Lately been distributing my risks between other asset classes.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/99/e3/1799e31167498fe7c3eb4c577874873f--money-quotes-a-quotes.jpg

It is clear what kind of a "get rich quick" character the OP is. Dan Bilzerian is not a role model, only a mysogynistic pig.

The rule "buy low, sell high" applies even to hodlers who don't increase their stack at every turn. Some people can think further than 1 month. I know it's unbelievable, but it exists.

And daytrading can be very stressful. I'd rather have a "set and forget" strategy.

long-term hodling is best for one's mental health.

This true. If I held long term, I would still have my health. However, I would also have only 1% of the profits I have now. (yes I have outperformed bitcoin by 10,000%). Still I'd give it all back and take my health back in a heartbeat.

Not all people know how to trade mate. Also some have jobs so they can't waste their day on the computer playing trader without being an actual one :)

It's ironic that said this right before the biggest bull run in Bitcoin yet up to $20,000 happened. Long term holders always win. The people that held at $1,000 are now up %1000 even after the crash from $20,000 to $8,000, so how can you even begin to argue how long term holders have ever lost?

Similarly, the people that bought at $20,000 will make %100 gains when we hit $40,000 this year.

This may be a good long term project yielding a coin...

New coin with great potentials, coming very soon to the exchange! Do your own research, study your own investment! Good luck,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2753447.0

You mentioned that Bitcoin will be a means of transaction in future. Do you think people will wait a whole day for their transaction to go through and that too after paying huge transaction fees? Our lord and savior will be the lightning network if Bitcoin is to be truly be used for transactions.

http://lightning.network

Bitcoin has always recovered from bear markets and gone much much higher...don't see how anyone would ever think holding long term means you're an idiot?! Does the OP think making lots of money means you're an idiot? Holding Bitcoin long term and not panic selling during a bear market has worked out for every single person who has ever done it!

Seriously the long-term holders are the wise investors and we actually need to develop that type of trading mind set in other to really succeed in cryptocurrency investment. Many have seriously lose opportunities because they sell early than expected but the long term investors has there target and were they really want to be before selling and one of this day they will get there.

I do not think these people are idiots. They have their investment strategy. They believe that this investment will bring profit in the future.

when the price for Bitcoin was around $ 20,000, then no one else considered any large holders of crypto currency. But when the price of Bitcoin began to decline, everyone started saying such unpleasant things. I think that I will change a little bit as soon as Bitcoin grows again above the maximum.

Holders are gonna hold, haters are gonna hate, this is the motto of the crpyto markets. We shouldn't pay much attention to those fud spammers. We should focus on our job to increase our bitcoin assets.

Your right, that's the reseon why other people they want to hold their bitcoin or what kind of coin there he/she is, because they lack of information or knowledge on how to trade. Anyways, we have own strategy on how to handle the risk when it comes to investment or day trading, so don't say idiots to the people who hold their bitcoin for the long term.

I think stocks right now are in an overvalued bubble where a 60% bear market would be completely run of the mill. So "long term" holders will need alot of patience as even 10 years out chances are prices will probably be around where they are today, with either 1 or 2 serious collapses in the interim. However I actually think crypto is a good hold right now, at least for the next few years. Call it long term, medium term whatever but I think cryptos should be an investment not a trade, whereas stocks right now should only be a trade unless you have discipline to withstand what's coming and don't care.

Stuck on Holdings not bad as long as you dont need the money to spend or some expenses to be made quickly literally need it. Holding your loss doesnt mean you will hold them until it profits it depends on the user if he will change his thinking and switch to another coin to hold.

Holders will always win in this market and those people who did not believe on a great coin will surely buying back but at a higher price. Long term is really good and it works for me, always set your goal so you will not be broke in the future. Well short term and long term are both profitable it is just depend on your choice of which is convenient for you then do so.

I also agree with it i think wise people always invest money for long term. In fact long term investment is more safe as compare to short term investment and specially if a person do not have any experience in short term investment. But for long term investment it is also too much important to that one must invest a good amount of money because investing small amount of money is just wasting the time and nothing else.

I doubt if there are any long-term investors in cryptos which form do not form part of the top 50 by market cap. Most of the crypto traders treat cryptocurrencies like penny stocks, where you have to get in before the pump starts and get out before the dump starts. There may be long term investors in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Depends really. I've done quite well out of holding. I do think about cashing out but probably not for a while yet and I buy stuff with bitcoin occasionally. I have things like capitol gains to consider too, if the price doesn't crash disastrously and I cash out slowly over the next few years. That seems like the best option to me and that's if bitcoin doesn't keep growing, and it might.

I think you need to sell some of your Bitcoin if the price goes up substantially.  Because if you wait long enough you take the chance it might crash.   No point in hoarding Bitcoin if you're sitting on a profit.  Keep some and sell some.  And if the price goes down then buy back at a lower price. 

I think long term holders (like me), are necessary.
The coins they buy are not circulating anymore, and that increases the price of the rest of the coins.
Without long term holders I do not think we would see the price we have today.
I suppose the average long term holder does not own many coins, but there are a lot of hodlers out there. Together they cover many coins.
So their role is very important.

I do think they are idiots. BTC failed as a payment system, LN is a joke, it's highly unlikely BTC will survive, that's why SMART people like Warren Buffet say they'd buy 5 year put options on BTC because it's highly unlikely BTC will survive 5 year.

Some say "yeah but it functions as storage for value, just like gold", that's also just a dumb argument, once people will admit BTC failed as payment system they'll start fleeing out of it as well. I just don't see ANY logical case to make for BTC. So yeah, I think they're idiots.

It is ironic since this thread has been created when bitcoin was less than $2000 if i am not wrong.. and now it is more than x6 times of what it was before. So if you were holding that, you could easily made a x6 of that.. What a dumbass.

Not sure if you're serious or not.
BTC is far away from being a failed experiment. And LN will prove you soooo wrong!  :D
Furthermore BTC already exists since 9 years and gets attacked on a daily basis what makes it more and more resilient on a daily basis. The next 5 years will be a no brainer.

And hodlers believe in Bitcoin because they did as much research as possible and are convinced of its' potential and therefore decided it's worth a long term investment.Nothing wrong about that.
Guys who bought the top in 2013 are still smiling.

Even the "North American Bitcoin Conference" in Miami didn't accept bitcoin anymore because of the high cost! How's that not a failed experiment ? Among top 500 online retailers BTC acceptance went down from 5 in 2016 to 3 in 2017. A huge experiment in the city of Arnhem in the Netherlands, where over 100 retailers accepted BTC, was stopped because bitcoin payments were too expensive and nodoby cared for it anyway and there are tons of more examples. It's scaling down big time because it has failed. It's too expensive and too slow.

How so ? It's a horrible system for reasons I've laid out several time here on this forum, like: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2768140.msg28291679#msg28291679 . It's a joke.



Most hodlers know pretty much 0 about LN or how it works. All they know is 'instant payment' and 'very low fees'. They don't know about the horrible details.

Judging by the above, the next five years should not be expected from Bitcoin great prospects? Is it realistic? If you pay attention to many of the hears that experts said, then Bitcoin already in this he must fly to the skies.

Lots of arrogance in your post , long term hodlers of bitcoin or pretty much every top 10 altcoin made big gains without doing anything .
To dumb to daytrade is also a assumption , some people have a life outside of crypto and can't afford to spend all their time looking at charts and ta's or don't want to because it is boring af.
But good luck with your trading bro , if you are as good as you think try trading stocks you will see how good you are.

Long term people made crazy money last year. We can't say long term holding is representing stupidity. This is how one person can be a smart guy actually. It's a good thing to adopt a project, token or coin.

People who invested a few years ago earned a lot of money. Holding for a long term gives you big profits. And for how long someone invests depends on the investment strategy.

No I'm not , i really think that those who do that are smart becouse if you hold youre Bitcoin for 2 months maybe after that time Bitcoin could rice up a lot and you can make a really nice profit, don't you think ? You just stay at home and watch tv , or maybe do something else , but after three months you will make a few thousand $ or 1 thousand, but its still ok . There are some people who are holding for a few years , well I also think that they are making some nice profit . So no  , I don't think that those who are holding for long term are idiots .

Including myself, of course.. I am not looking to sell, in fact, everytime that i cashout my monthly wage, i am investing aproximately 30% of that in Bitcoin and in order altcoins. I really believe on it.

Smart person who is completely anti cryptocurrencies would be a better description. If bitcoin fails as a payment system then you're right in that it will not survive but what is there to suggest that LN is a joke and won't turn bitcoin back in to a viable option? It's also all well and good people like Warren Buffet can say whatever they like, I very much doubt he has any put options.

For example:

* The maximum amount you can pay in a certain route is determined by the guy with the LEAST amount of money in his channel
* Users can defraud each other in a channel, so they have to continually check if somebody is defrauding them.
* Unless you have a direct channel to your target, there is NO guarantee AT ALL that you can pay the person you want to pay.
* Users need to be online 24/7 if they want to be part of a payment route. If a user is offline, this particular route is not possible which of course has huge impact on the possible routes.
* Insane amounts of data are being sent because the network needs to be aware of EVERYBODY's payment channel's state (otherwise it can't discover a route)
* You still have huge fees if you want to wire money into/outside the channel.
* It's not feasible at all for bigger payments. Let's say you have to pay $1500 rent/month, are you going to open a payment channel and deposit 3 years rent in it ? Most people have difficulties enough coughing up the next month. But if you have to wire every payment into the channel, then you could just as well pay on-chain because you're paying that exact same on-chain fee.
* It's also not feasible for very small payments/channels. If you open a $30 channel with your coffeeshop to buy a few cups of coffee per week, then the price of your coffee doubles because of the huge fees to open/close the channel.

It definitely depends on the investment strategy as we have different needs and plan so I find it better to invest during the dump and also cash out 50 % of funds when the value is at the peak but if we canNot control our emotions during price dump and then end up panic selling then we are losers.

For maximum profits it's clear long term holding isn't best, and indefinite holding will leave you with zero. But holding is a strategy that works for many as you have to remember people have different commitments and goals in crypto.

this thread from june is very funny to read now

i am still x50 up just holding btc , yeah what an idiot ahabahahahahaha

This is such an insanely stupid argument. You have still lost ton of profit on paper by "le hodling xD" and not selling it earlier. If you keep hodling through a bear market you are just a delusional person.

It good ideas. So hold the bitcoin long time. It any time to increase price. So most of the people hold the coin and wait for the price increase. Bitcoin future digital currency. So it any Time to reach the high values. That the reason people hold the bitcoin. So coming future it help to growth. Most of the country people connect with bitcoin. So people share the information of bitcoin future.

I think holding is not the wrong choice and it's not an idiot thing. people who hold for the long term are certainly optimistic because
they assure their money in bitcoin and are confident that future bitcoin prices will grow high, it's holding very popular today, and that's a good choice..

Nope, in contrast they are the smartest and I salute to their patience because they manage to wait for a longest time in order to get profit. However, you can't just only make a long term investment any time you want because its requiring a huge amount of money in order for your alloted time to be not in vain.

Tell me, what's the point in gold and other resources? But they are also bought and stored for a long time, and that the price has become smaller? On the contrary, it became higher. But what is a crypto currency is at the moment a certain asset. At the moment, the crypto industry is unregulated and therefore jumps up to heights can be grandiose. And in general, the industry itself is backed by technology. In general, if there is no value to your progress, then you can safely exit the market. Otherwise the crypt currency can become one of the trading tools like any available asset at the moment. But over time, the crypto currency will have other qualities. The fact that bitcoin proshol for the year may not happen in the next 10 years. But something will develop further, and in fact it is!

I'm holding long-term, already paid myself back several times over.
Two things that kept me from trading more.  One is when I tried swing trading I found it stressful and difficult and time consuming.  Second is I am concerned about keeping my BTC on an exchange to be traded.
I guess I'm just an idiot that's too dumb to trade according to the asshole OP.   Seriously fuck you, I hope the exchange you use is hacked and you lose everything.

Hey hodler tards, how are your long term "investments" doing?

Have you told your family yet how much of a long term thinker you are?

"long term" = I'm an idiot who can't identify bull and bear markets

"hodler" = I'm an idiot who gets married to investments

lol

   I can get out today with some profit in my pockets. For me every investment should be long-term, it`s period when you wait something
little to grow up, that takes time. Everything else for me is gambling, speculating, manipulating, you can try to to that, nobody stops you
from that.
   You can criticize long-term holders, it`s your right. But each of us have some strategy, I have my own and I think in some time we will
see who chose better.

lol @ coping

But you won't get out and keep holding til it goes to 1000$.

You lost so much money because you DID NOT SELL. Saying you did not lose money because you invested less is delusional. You had such an opportunity and blew it because of moronic MUH HODL

he didnt loose money even if the value drops to 1k usd but as long as he would not sell to cut loss .  this year many peeps are expecting that the bull run  will now come becuase of the bakkt and etf/sec aproval  .  other one is the nasdaq thingy  plus many more goodies that will said to come this imcoming months  .  meanwhile , hodlers are not idiot but rather they are our saviors because they save the price so that it wont go down . we'd better give credits to them  , instead of bullying them  .   peace yow   ;D

Sadly only about 20x up on my initial outlay these days.

I've booked myself in to Dignitas and have arranged a live feed of my swallowing the required drugs and subsequent frothing at the mouth for you to run your fingers up and down your winkle to. I would consider it a worthy tribute for you to grunt my username as your filthy squirts coat the screen.

How can you say that? You did know that longterm is not for loser it's for real investor and holders. And I think theres nothing wrong if we choose a long term in our investment because it will more recommended .

Hodlers have always been right if you go back and look at the charts.  Look at how many 80%+ crashes bitcoin has had and it always recovers and increases exponentially.

Just because we are currently in a bear market people like to yell and scream that holding is terrible advice.  Granted if your able to day trade and call top and bottoms you can make a lot more money but most people are unableto do that.

In some circumstances, which also include financial markets, and especially on the condition that you have a significant deposit, there is no way to get rich quickly. Because it is simply impossible, because there are other laws here. According to them, you always need to spend a certain amount of time in order to achieve your goal, sometimes quite a significant amount of time.

Yeah, they are so right now with 80% correction ,but Bitcoin only goes up, right? LOL!!!!

No this is not true. And i think long holders will always win a big, big profit. As we can the history of bitcoin in the past always the price grow and after time the price drop and always the price reach a new ATH after long time, so the long holders will always win.

well, because of that, everyone has their own opinions. many people feel that holding in the long run is really very good in the future. however, some people think that not selling it at the right time, and holding it in the long run, it will only be in vain.

Bezobraznik, most long-term holders don't have any strategy. Well, they can of course claim now that their strategy is to hold long-term (which is what you would expect anyway), but for how many of them it is only an ad-hoc thing used to justify them actually being long-term bagholders? I'm strongly inclined to think that this is not their free choice (as is what using a strategy implies), and if given a chance, they would now be happy to get rid of their bags at a minimal loss. Something which they failed to do in time

That pretty much sums it up

It does not just happen with bitcoin, but it also happens with altcoin too especially for the potential altcoin that can increase in anytime. Maybe we can remember what was happen with many coins like ethereum, dash, zec, monero, litecoin, zcl, and the other when those coin increase higher. You can imagine how much money the hodlers was made from that coins. And right now, I think it's the best time to buy those coins while the price is low and hold like what the hodler did so far.

Long term means how long? 6 months or 1 year is not long term,it must be atleast two or more years to reap the profits from your investment as long term since the crypto prices cycle keep swinging in that region for most of the time.They can be the real profit makers if they have enough patience.

Every person has its own kind of deffinition like example in my case i consider long term for only 1 month or two  . short term for me is only 3 to 6 days because im not really a die hard investor  .

@op  yes they are .  they are idiots if they doing long term with a bad coin choice .  they are idiots if they only hold forever without selling   to earn a profit   .  laslty they are idiots if they are like the op .

Maybe they are idiots or not just stupid enough to sell cheap, every person as their own goals, I might wish to sell 100btc for peanuts and other person want 10 houses for 1 btc, It does not matter. what matters everyone has his choice to make and should whatever pleases them with coin! it's nobody's business!

only fake holders that hold and then sell at a cheap price in panic. yeah everyone does have its own purpose. but not everyone is able to maintain their goals. including fake holders who are unable to discipline and survive in holding their coins. and actually sell at low prices

I wouldn't call them fake holders. Maybe they are really noob investors and just thought its cool to hold their coins, but once the market goes down they panic and sold everything and decided not to go back. Their lack of understanding is the real cause of it that's why their goals are not met. So they are not holders after all.

I guess he didn't mean it to be offensive

He probably meant they were weak and didn't stick to their guns. But that's bullshit, of course, as most of these so-called holders became such against their will. Their goal was as simple as one, two, three, i.e. to buy now and sell later, for a profit, obviously. It is actually not a bad strategy on its own, at least, as long as you don't forget to get out as quickly as you got in when the market turns against you. This is the part which they failed to stick to and thus became holders, fake holders from the beginning, as that was not their true intention

Not because the market continued to fall within 2018 to present then it doesnt mean that long term holding is a shit. Its what being safe while waiting mean. If the price increases , and long term holders earn triple, do you think its still being idiot?

longterm holding is smart, because for sure you will get more money compared if you choose the shorterm.

Shorterm: You can get some profit only it takes few months it depends to the coin when it increase sometimes it increase only weeks so you can sell it and you can earn more money too but only low percentage to happen.

Longterm: You can get more profit takes few years and you have a lot of patient. But maybe your waiting will be waisting if the coin is not potential to rise.

well, some people feel that holding for a very long time is an idiot. in fact we don't judge people from that, because sometimes it's not just based on profits. well, but in matters of profit, sometimes people who hold back very long, miss the opportunity to get a big profit.

If someone calls an idiot person who has invested in, for example, 2012 and keeps coins for now, then he becomes an idiot himself.
An idiot is someone who invested in Q4 2017 and sells now.

I can only say that these long term hodlers are complete idiot when they did not sell half or more than half of their portfolio when every coins has reached moon. We should always sell a portion when there's a good opportunity because those virtual coins aren't like antique painting or figurines that will multiply their prices when years go by.

No, I don't think so. Actually, no matter how it looks now I think that long term investing in Bitcoin is the most profitable and less risky. But everything depends on circumstances, when exactly did you buy Bitcoin and for how long did you keep it and when did you sell it. So, to my opinion isn't every decision has its background and should be estimated according to circumstances that were valid at that time.

You are right, and I am sure that person will be the smartest person who can make a bigger profit in 2017 if he sold his bitcoin at a very high price. And the other people who came to bitcoin in that year only make the worst investment ever but don't afraid because bitcoin will increase in the future. So you need to be patient to hold your bitcoin and don't even think that bitcoin cannot rise for a long-term because bitcoin will prove that bitcoin is too strong and can rise in every time.

I don't think long term hodlers are idiot , if you see in long term price has consistently increasing moreover it also depends which project you believe in long term.

Long term holders definitely lose the opportunity to profit in the declining market. I didn't hold my BTC, I have dumped mine sadly, I thought of only dumping few when it hit $19k when I should have go all the way. Now I lost it all. I could have been enjoying the money that I should have. But long term holders will also gain in the future.

Whatever you call it dude. they have a bad influence because they contribute to a dump. maybe they also think that holders are idiots because holder keep holding back even though prices fall. even though the holder is looking forward waiting for the next few years. not in a short time

I mean if you didn't sell the remaining bitcoin is your stack then technically you don't lose right? You also lose if you dump it at today's price which you don't do at all. Since you already hold on it for a long time then you might as well continue to do it in the next couple of years to maximize your profits.

if someone who is an idiot is someone who holds their assets for more than 1 year, that includes me. well, I have held back the assets that I have had so far until prices fall like this. but, however, this is a risk that I need to face. well, maybe people say idiots, but basically we don't know what happens in the future. besides, this might be an important lesson for me, and a number of other people.

You're quite right mate, since the market now is tremendously dropped all we have to do is to hold. There is no other solution aside from holding and must be patience.

When your portfolio gets wiped out by 80% and you're still hodling...


... me too  :'(

It depends on which coin/token do you have in your portfolio. And also the time frame of "long term". Because the "long term" is a relative.
But I think you should always hold BTC and also ETH in your portfolio. The small marketcap altcoins..... you are right.

Long term holding is for those that do not want to watch the market all day to get profits, maybe you cannot understand this but not everyone is interested in watching charts and trying to figure out what the market will do all the time, they have other stuff to do like working and spending time with their family and they see in long term holding a good option for them to invest and get profit.

The short answer is it depends

The long answer is it depends on how deeply you are invested in crypto. If it is something which you can safely put to rest (the proverbial "invest what you can leave to rest"), it is one thing. And it is a completely different thing if you are a Warren Buffett of cryptoinvestments (in the terms of your obsession with them, not your success, obviously). In the latter case, you simply can't help watching the charts all day long and following the prices through restless and sleepless nights as well. If you want a life, just diminish radically your financial exposure to cryptomarkets to the point of being irrelevant and your life will be full again. But that may not be something which you might be really looking for

I will not said I am idiot as a long-term holders but I can said we really make a terrible investments decision. I have decided to trade bitcoin base on a particular market conditions and not just buying any coins and keep holding them.  Investors are not going to make bad investments decision if we are short term one as long holding do results in loses.

Bought araound $80 and it's currently $3600 so yes I'm an idiot :P
But true that selling at $19k would have been better...
Then again having a cold wallet is the safest place for very long term instead of trusting exchanges like MtGOX and BTCe :)

Well everyone who's heard of mt.gox should find it necessary to have cold wallets if they're planning on long term. And however said hodlers are for idiots are probably just trolling or have lost a lot of money holding the wrong coin at the wrong time. If you ask me, it's the safest method of dealing in this market.

You only consider yourself an idiot if you are not benefiting in holding.
I can see that there are a many investors who benefited from holding, they have the reason to hold because most of the early
investors are very successful with just holding, that's effortless if you'll ask me but they have the confidence that's why they make easy money.
When you bought at $1 and you are still holding now, I guess  you are a genius although you did not sold during ATH, but ATH will again come.

The cold wallet can be a great solution for people who can buy bitcoin at $80 and not leave his bitcoin at the exchange especially if he has more than 1000 bitcoin. I never think that the holders are idiots because they are thinking about their future and if somehow, they can get a great investment like bitcoin, I am sure that they will want to save as much bitcoin as they can because bitcoin has a great future.

You suffer from the "Every coin is the same, thus whatever I think about one, applies to other ones" even if you don't know it ;)

When you find a coin that has long term plans and you research it and decide to buy cause if those plans happen down the road, you'll make money....it's only logical to hold on.
If the plans will take..let's say 7 years. Why not hold if we think the price will be the highest then?

For me, long term holding is not an idiocracy it was only the product of not having an option. As you will noticed, most of the long term hodlers are small investors only. They don't have any choice but to hodl because that small amount of money in their hands is all they hand thus cannot afford to lose it. Even some of them want to try trading, unfortunately, they still can't because their money might not be a good starting capital.

Till date each and every long term hodlers have profited out of bitcoin. Even if they've missed one opportunity, surely they'll get another opportunity to profit out of the same. All that required is the patience to hold till the next price bumping happens. In very few cases long term hodlers have encountered loss which is purely based on their situation upon which they were not in a situation to hold it anymore.

I think hodler for long term is not idiot they know what they doing that's why they hodl what they have because they believe to that coin and I think they know that it will be a good future to that coin that's they hodl it. It's not bad to choose a long term because it will give you more profit that ti daily basis.

Situtions like this will force us to hold because if we sold, we will lose our money. But for me holding is alright as long as you have limits on that and holding doesn’t mean you’re an idiots you just believe on long term investment and no one will force you to do trading because they want to. Always stand for your own decision.

hodling is a choice  .  its an act of investing and many people choose this path because this is more safer and easier to do than trading or any other risky activities out there .


alot of long term investors are average to rich people . few were only poor but its not a problem anymore because all who enters this scene are here to earn a profit  .


Its not because they dont have any choices but the main reason why they chose to hodl is because the current market situation is not really suitable for trading or selling .  its also a golden rule that we must only invest what we can afford to loose

Technically, Holding coins doesn't lose you money, so why would you sell in the first place? I don't think they are idiots, they are using their brains and just waiting for the right time to sell. Of course its wise if they have sold at $19K, but it doesn't matter 1 BTC is 1 BTC, no matter what, its jus the dollar value that changes when you're going to liquidate it.

Taking an absolute view for or against is not the best choice.   Selling at the timing of this thread would not given the best price, it had risen 300% from the previous peak but still was not near its highest price.   The sensible thing is not to sell all but make sure your holdings are distributed some.

I dont especially agree with only hold but its not been a bad strategy for what is a unique new technology overall.  Nobody was able to estimate it exactly and it was widely dismissed, holding was far from the worst strategy to have.   Likely thats going to be repeated.

I would argue overall that people should adjust their portfolio to match gains seen.   So if Bitcoin were to double in pricing then move at least some small percentage to long term currency like gold.    Having your mortgage reduced so you are a larger percentage owner in your own house is a good arguable strategy for security.   Money is security ultimately, some see it as luxury but having been poor many times in life I can tell you the most valuable money is what pays for food, security and all the basics taken for granted.
  Always the best gains are stabilised across all your various costs, like rent, etc   lopsided purely to growth, high risk products is dangerous ground

I think choosing longterm investment or hodling is not idiot because it's the best way to make a good profit. Much better to know about longterm instead say that people are idiot who hodl for longterm.

The people who are complaining about hoarding are the ones who missed out in the beginning, there is nothing that can be done for sour people who keeps on complaining like that. :D I am not holding that much coins now a days but i had the opportunity to get in when the price was really low and made a good profit when the market boomed, now i am collecting coins and waiting for the long term for yet another rally and make some cool profit.
 ;)

You have to understand it, every investor has a different perspective, you don't equate investors one and the other. I guess the OP has suffered a loss when choosing investments for the long term, it cannot be continuously pursued by bearish market so as it gives up and makes this thread (this is just my bad prejudice) I do not deny that many new investors out there continue to hope for price recover. They experience deep losses when investing here, even though it is a risk that must be faced.

Long terms holders are not idiot hnce they are asset of the crypto and also money maker. If there was no long term holder than crypto loss their place within a day or two. But that is not happening. Now a days long term holder decreasing that's why price decreasing too. Price can only move if there is long term holder and new investors enters into it.

Christ I need to stop running across comments like yours, makes me grit my teeth so hard haha. I started earning (yeah, I never bought actually, but I suppose earning directly saves me the trouble of buying) around the region just below $1k, but only properly got paid once it had well breached 2k. So yeah, I am still in profit for every satoshi I held since early to mid-2017, but then, almost every coin I'd earned since then for the next 18 months or so is worth less today.

So yeah, I feel like an idiot and can agree I should have probably sold a bit of it at 19k, but then there's the beauty of hindsight and the value of experience.

See you at 190k eh? ;)

The bulk of cryptocurrency holders can earn in the cryptocurrency market only by long-term retention of their coins and tokens. Of course, the most profitable, but also the most risky trade in cryptocurrency. However, not everyone has the opportunity and desire to engage in trade. In this situation, the most correct solution would be to periodically trade in moments of big rises and price drops in the market. Therefore, you should not call those who hold their cryptocurrency for a long time as idiots. This is also a way to make a profit, but not the best.

I agree with you. if there are people who feel that the coin detainees are stupid people, then in 2016 - 2017, they are geniuses. well, we can't draw conclusions when prices have gone down, and say they are geniuses when prices rise. however, I always respect someone's decision, whether it's holding a coin in the long run or not, because we don't know what they are planning.

Agreed, Everyone will be having their own prediction and the plans to be executed with the support of the cryptocurrencies bullish market. Expecting such thing people go with long term as well short term holding unlike the price. In this regard one should not term a long term holder an idiot. If you consider the richest through bitcoin, majority of them were long term hodlers.

We have different opinion about long term holding, well, for me, I hold long term and I'm not idiot.
I don't really care if people are saying that we, long term are idiot because we are not here for each other, we are here for the money.
So, regardless of our strategy, it does not matter anymore, what matters is the result, which is profit.

I agree, does it really matter how you got your profits? I do not care if I get profits holding long term or trading as long as I have more money in my bitcoin wallet I am happy, so if a person realizes he is not good at trading and holds and gets profit that way then he is taking the right decision, after all it is not like trading is easy and only gives profits.

For the price drops long term investor might be loser but do you think the loss will remain too long. I think once price drop they might be losser but the price will increase and then they will be profitable. And that's why they invest for long time. Okay lets say about short term trader or day trader. Thy might buy and after few minutes its drops then they will be more losers than the long term investors.

back again that everyone has their own plans. not all users like you, by doing cutlose when prices fall and wait for another opportunity to buy at a lower price, many people are successful and rich because they are holding back from 2012 to 2017? they experience many thing like up and down price before, but in the end they made a profit. holders are not idiots, they have their own calculations

Yes, in the long run on long term investors are getting benefit and will get benefit for investing time and money. And they cant be considered as an idiot.

To each his own.

We can also call those speculators who keeps shorting bitcoin in the last six months or so. Why keep shorting it when you can just buy in dip and hold for a long time?

So everyone has its own strategy whether we are in a bear or bull market. So we can't generalized investors just because they are long term holder or just shorting and taking small profits.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this view

And as much agree with the poster you replied to. It is the end result which matters, and here the end result for the total majority of us is hands down profit. You can be long, you can be short, but your goal is earning profits. not suffering losses any way you look at it. Indeed, there are different strategies and different approaches as to how we get there based on our understanding of the market (as well as misunderstanding, for that matter) but each of us wants profits in the end, not losses

I agree that I am an idiot. Hopefully someday a rich idiot ;)

Holders may be idiots in the current average mindset of the crypto crowd, but it was traders that crashed the market.

hmmm long term holders in an exponentially booming market are....idiots??

Maybe OP is confusing the words rich and idiot.

And it was traders that provided the huge run-up.

If long term investors are idiot then I am also an idiot as I am a long term investor. I will only sell once it reach on my dream price. Until the price reach on my dream price I will hold in any cost.

Buyers did that, not traders.

Im a long term hodler but im not an idiot. We have our own reasons why we keep hodling, some investors missed the right timing while others have a target price on when to sell just like me and I dont see anything wrong with that. Atleast we are wise enough not to cut losses just because we are afraid the market wont recover anymore. Patience is the key so if you dont have it then long term hodling is not for you thus dont call hodlers an idiot.

For a long-term investor, patience becomes a very important point. That's why most hodlers are always sure of what they do, it's not without reason because they do the best analysis possible. Indeed there are still failures, but as experience increases, it will make the hodlers better at making decisions.

im not a hodler but im an idiot not only me but all of us in this world are idiot because no one is perfect . we all experience to become an idiot mostly when we are young but eventually as we grow older we can change our mindsets  .


rich idiot is better than poor idiot anyway . lol


doing cut loose is an idiotic  move . why would you sell for loss but eventually you will buy again at higher price .  why cant you just dont sell at all  . you dont loose no matter how the market dumps as long as you didnt touch your coins .

you're right, that also applies to me, and most of the people who are here. I think that can't be said as an idiot, because it's still our choice, and our own will. well, we never knew anything like this would happen, but I don't think that's something idiot

Being a long term investor does not mean that he must not take positions according to the market situation, i am a long term holder of bitcoin and i made my profits when the market rallied to all time high valuation, i knew that a big correction was inevitable after a huge rally and i started selling my coins when it touched ten thousand dollars as that was my initial target and sold all my coins after crossing 17k$ because i was expecting a correction anytime but it rallied further, no regrets what so ever for not selling at the peak as it is very difficult to predict when the correction happens. So just take your positions according to the market situation even if your goal is long term.

Before holding bitcoin for long was one of the major ways we have made money in the past and I didn't think that is going to stop. It is not foolishness to hold an asset for long-term because some investors has made their minds for that already.

People have different  perception towards crypto hodlers. Some might think that these people are crazy or idiot of not selling their crypto holdings when the market is so healthy that would earn them a very big amount of money. But for those who really believe that hodling can give them the best profit they could get in the future, let's just wish them luck.

This line can be applied to ICO coins hodlers. I always thought that holding long term will bring good return but with different kinds of ICO coins I have waiting and hoping that one day the price will favor me, it is indeed stupid to hold them long but with bitcoin, no. Bitcoin has been proven to be strong and still the king of crypto and by just looking at the history back, it has gained such a credibility to be trusted to and enough to be a reason to hold long term.

Longterm is really good and I don't think is an idiots. Do you think those people who invested in the year 2009 are idiots is a big NO because of longterm they eaen a lot of money and most of them become millionaire or billionaires. People choice if they want called longterm and choose longterm.

I do not think that Warren Buffet is an idiot for having made operations in the Stock Market that moves very slowly and has been a holder, because he is a millionaire, in the world of cryptocurrency there is that volatility advantage that, being Holder, it is for a long time, in the terms that are long the fortunes that can be given are very impressive.

The market has investors and speculators, and if you want to be a fast millionaire, you're wrong, things are not like that, for that you must work, study the market, until you understand, that way, if you could think of starting to win.

I don't think so. There are a lot of people who invested in Bitcoin way back 2009 became millionaire because of their decision. They put faith that it'll be a fruitful be acquired for the future. That's the same perspective of long term holders now. We can't say if they made good or wrong decision or not if they didn't sell lowere than the price the buy it.

Yeah,it's better just to sell all your crypto at a huge loss and start gambling(because it's more profitable). ;D
I was sarcastic,by the way.
I've never wanted to become rich quick with bitcoin,I just wanted to make some bitcoins.If the price goes to 20K USD,I'll be happy,but if it goes back to 1-2K USD,i'm OK with that.

There is truth in your sarcasm, if they don`t like it they can sell and do what ever else they want, crying here about crypto doesn`t change anything for me, for many of us, we will continue to believe and work for it. We all want to get rich somehow, sooner is always better than later when it comes to getting rich, but some people have patience and they don`t fall in depression every time when investment starts going down. I`m ok with any bitcoin price now, I have my amount for trading, and I will trade on any price, profit will be different, but what to do. Other thing is that I have something on a side for future, I believe in bitcoin potential.

Many people don't have the option to do daily trading due to lack of information or due to lack of time,
It is a good strategy to follow especially if you don't need cash immediately.
Just think of the people who bought Bitcoin in 2012 and they just hodl it till now. I think that the money that they earned can prove your assumption wrong.

of course I don't think like that. I don't know, maybe there are some people who think like that, because the price has dropped so far. well, it's a risk as holders. however, they still have the opportunity to sell it when the price drops.

I can say kinda and for looking at this situation maybe those who say is right, but lets hope that other bad minded guys out there will change views when pump comes and those people who get trap can sell at win nor little loss

Warren Buffet is not stupid for buying cheap and selling expensive. The point of view of an investor is very different from that of a speculator, the speculator always takes profits from the small movements of the market, the investor takes profits in the long term.

Well, I don't see your explanation on how you define investors as far as I know we have long term investor and short term investor and not necessarily that who ever invest for a long time that should be referred to as investors the way you put dude.

Well said, the investors focus will be on the long term profiting. If I'm not wrong the long term holders some times miss the opportunity to profit at the peak expecting a much bigger growth. One such happened with the recent price pumping of bitcoin reaching $20000. Speculators were the one who make a better earning than that of the investor, because the speculator keeps him active in the market and make use of the fluctuations.

I don't really believe in your submission that long term investors are losers because am one of those who are benefactors of long term.

The perfect answer might be answer will be come on time. So wait and see who is the idiots who hold for long term or who hold for short term just wait and see it ASAP.

People who are patient and do not anticipate the facts, often reach their goals quickly, this applies to investments, if you have bitcoin right now, it's a bad idea to sell, because bitcoin will reach its bullish stage at some point, and can give profits of up to x10 and up, and the only thing to do is hold.

The real score here is at the final destination of every speculative ideas, nobody could exactly point towards whoever is an idiot or not. It always depends on market movements, and thankfully on those who been doing great with short trades but I don't think they'll be happy and overwhelmed when they found out their coins shining through during high price again soars on bitcoin market soon. For now, they might think long term holders an idiot but for the long run those bashers will shut their mouth off.

I am fully agreed with you that no one can call a final destination without the last time. Even before 1 second of the last time result might be changed on crypto world. So, we should stay away to say idiot to the long term investors.

The price history of Bitcoin shows that hodlers always earn money. Whether there will be another, even bigger bull run, no one knows. However, in my opinion, sooner or later, we will have new ATH and the hodlers will win again.

Same happened for several currencies for example you may have seen the price chart of ethereum or litecoin and for these coins you will be able to see that  they gave a good profit to their holders.

I can personally prove this one right now since I do bought some ETH during its $100 run. I hold for a month and the price made a good profit to me. We have different good reason to hold and if you don’t find your own yet better to analyze well. Hodlers are not idiot, they believe in something good.

Exactly! Most hodlers do not look only on market situation, but on coin potential. Only those who are looking for fast profit will not understand that. Cryptocurrencies are not only for speculation, but thats are financial instruments that with every year gain bigger adoption, and with adoption will also come higher price.

I think long terms holders are asset on the crypto-currency community instead of idiots. If you are not a long term holder of crypto then you should not an asset and hence you should be a curse for the community.

Trader who holding their coin for longterm is more than smart compared to the people who not hold their coin and choosed to sold their coin. I don't think we are idiot because we hold coin because as for me I want my life to become better.

We cannot say that way, those who sell as long as they are in profit that time, they are still smart.
Our only purpose is to sell at a profit, so the timing could be different as we have different target when it comes to profit making.


Let them think we are idiot, and let's prove them we are wrong, the right time will come.

Im a long term hodler and im not an idiot im just preparing for the future of my family. Long term investment will give you huge profit in the near future, and thats what when i started to hodl some of promising coins but the risk is so high if you want to go for long term

not in the long run. shitcoins only are profitable for the scammers that "invented" them to sell them to you to get your bitcoin.

I think it's way more complicated

For example, if someone wins the lottery, is he smart or not? If you ask me, I think that winning the lottery only proves that you are lucky. But if you are then able not to waste the money and put it to work in a meaningful and purposeful way, you prove to be a smart guy indeed. In the earlier days, Bitcoin was very much like lottery, and many people were just lucky to turn up in the right place at the right time. Whether they were able to keep this wealth and not waste it is another question, though

Further, for many people it is not about selling at a profit (or at least not just about it). A lot of people now use Bitcoin for quite a few purposes which are completely unrelated to speculation (for example, the unbanked ones using it for remittances), and they may not care so much for the price of Bitcoin (read, you cannot even always tell if they are selling for a profit or loss when and if they have to sell). Are they smart or not in your system of values? To me, they are clearly outside it (though they may still be smart on their own)

If you look at charts throughout history you will certainly see that charts like waves, will rise and fall. so it's normal if the price is below, but we know the price will definitely be high again someday. Patient! keep believing holders always benefit

Hey I too don’t believe that people who hodl for the long term are idiots, in fact I feel the long term holders are visionary’s who are seeing the bigger picture, that small term holders are ignoring. If people study bitcoins price history then they’ll understand that, those who have held it for the long term are the ones who have made profits. I have always recommended that it’s best to ignore short term fluctuations, and hold it for bigger gains.

Those people who tell that long term holders are idiot I am not sure who they are and also who are the real idiot those people holding for long term or those people who are telling idiot.

I don't think we should call long term holders idiots and that's because everyone has its own way to invest its money. Some might prefer to make a small profit after a few weeks while others prefer to wait a longer time and don't worry everyday about what's happening to their investments.

Keep calm and HODL on  :D

Long-term investment is one of the most promising passive income techniques because it has proven to provide many benefits. An example is that HODL bitcoin investors since 2000 and sell their assets in 2017, have become millionaires.
But for traders who like crypto price fluctuations, they are certainly happy to trade every day because it is more challenging and profits can be enjoyed in a short time. But strong mentality is needed because pressure and emotion are sometimes a determining factor.

The truth is that everyone thinks that what they are doing is the right way of doing things, traders think that what they are doing will get them more profits and faster while investors believe that traders are taking too much risks when they can get very easy profits by basically doing nothing and just holding their coins, the truth is that they are both right they just have different approaches when it comes to making money in the market and we need to choose the one that fits our personality in the best way.

You are right, we should hold good item and wait for a good rate & we should not sell until it reach on our goal, it will be a wise decision and for that price also will increase.

Well, I am one of those who thinks holding assets is a pretty good way depending on the conditions. maybe there will be a time when we need to sell some of the assets we have. but, when it hasn't been seen, holding for long periods of time is not stupid thinking.

Am sure your thinking about long term holders is one sided and is the reason you are using such insultive word on long term holders. I know that you didn't take into consideration those who are holders of crypto coins since the year 2013 till this moment, will you still use such word for them or you don't even believe such people exist.

In the world of cryptocurrency, there are various ways for a person to gain success and usually based on their skills and experiences, there are those who go through short-term investment channels and long-term investments, or there are also those who trade, gambling, etc. All of these will provide a distinct advantage for the perpetrators, provided they understand how cryptocurrencies work.

No problem you call us losers, the fact's that the long term often produces positive things. For example positive thinking, guessing and hoping, only the good can change the market situation towards a better one. You don't need to be prejudiced (gossiping) bad, about the ways / strategies that other people do in achieving success.
Have you ever been prejudiced bad, with what have you done yourself?

Wow didn't read this one yet, one of the most stupid writings on the forum perhaps :)
I'm a long term HODLer, whats wrong with that, i have bought early 300's so i'm still in good profit, but I still HODL. WHY?

-cause I have a long term thought for the succes of BTC to achieve...
-cause I wanna live with BTC, use it to buy and transact for things, that why I have a cold storage HODL and some BTC for useage
-of-course if i knew 20K was dropping to 3-4K-ish then I would of sold and bought back to have more, but no crystal ball in my possession
-long term HODLer as simultaneity accumulator, so its HODL and buying converting when possible
-Dan Balzerian, like WTF dude are you high and simple minded? "(don't answer, retorical question)
- and so on ..... don't know why spending time on this....

But hey man take it easy and don't mix yourself with BTC, see you later in the damn why didn't I bought and HODLed thread LoL ::)

From my experience we need to keep hold of the assets for a longer time period, but the same shouldn't be kept idle when it reach a better price. I've done it without understanding about the market, and the same caused me with a big loss. The value of my holding have gone down to 100% and now waiting for such a growth, but there is no positive growth as the one I've missed. Long term holders need to be careful not to miss the right moment.

I used to mine BTC when it was 100 or so.   Good time but also that costs electricity so I cant just hold it all and ignore the costs to mining.   Ideally yea but this requires some resources to do so, people who can elect to hold have other assets and other sources of income.   If its just an unbalanced bet then good luck but also that implies the bet is quite small, lucky BTC grew a ton so that too has worked out.
   I cant call any of these people especially wrong for doing what was fair on a completely unknown new technology, people have labelled tech share holders idiots also and again thats pretty much incorrect even when the tech boom blew up famously.    I know someone who held tech shares since 1995, he has sold some but mostly they were a giant holder relatively and that was really not wrong in any way, giant jump down in 2000/1 but look now, the sector developed and the hold was very valid all this time.    

well, some people might think that those who hold in the long run are idiots. but, when prices get higher, and sell at the right time, they will surely think that they are doing something too late. well, in this case, it's better not to think about what other people think. focus on the strategies that we have made will be better in the future.

Great to see that you are on the same point of me regarding holding a item for a long term and also you think they (long term holders) are asset for a project and those can be helpful and also keep it uptrend.

If you can make an accurate evaluation instead of keeping it for a long time, you can earn more. If the main goal is profit, long term holding is not solution. As long as you hold it, the time is up.

I do not think that long term hodlers are idiots , how come you say that when those people who hodls their bitcoin way back when it is started and then in 2017 where they gained a lot of profits from bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and it was a long term. Nowadays because of the dip happening in the world of cryptocurrencies hodling for a long term is quite difficult because many have loss their money because of the dip in cryptocurrencies.

For bitcoin owners who have big capital and want big profits, they will certainly wait for prices to rise as high as possible because they are not burdened with financial problems, and when selling profits they are also big.
This strategy is not an idiot, in my opinion it is smart, but it must have big capital and no need to fear bitcoin. Optimistic and strongly believes bitcoin will become a high-priced digital currency.

Actually depending on the coins you hold, there are coins that will pump 100 times because right now they are still undervalued.
For BTC, we cannot expect it will increase again with that range, but it will grow of course and long term means really long term and we might get bored
due to the fact that the price is also volatile, anytime it could dump and will stay longer before it pump again.

you are right. maybe it all depends on the conditions. when you are still holding back, but the potential for the coin has disappeared, or has been abandoned by the dev, I think that is the wrong thing to do. but if it does have potential, I think holding in the long run is a good idea.

For me, they are smarter that us. It is very clear that real long term holders are betting on coins that are on the top 20 - 30 in the marketcap. They value is always there for a long time because these wealthy investors know that it has a shot of getting used globally and give them a return much more than what they expected.

I do not consider the term "long-term investor" something not very pleasant. I believe that those people who do not understand the specifics of financial markets poorly are the ones who can see something inappropriate in this term, for me the term "long-term investor" does not mean anything except that a person is an investor.

  People who believe that long term is liable aspect to earn massive profits will be given appropriable profits in return. Even if it will take a long time before it will purchase, the assurance of viable profits will laid to your account. But we have to spend a wide patience in accordance to achieve the thrive, if you are anxious of spending time and patience, then do not waste your time to hold before you lose some.

The long-term investor is the real investor.

A short-term investor is, in fact, a trader. He need to short his assets and rebuy them at lower price, to increase his holdings.

The investor just put his money there and let it go, focusing in other things.

How to come that being hodling for longterm will be idiots? Even they know that this is the best way to make a profits. They are not idiots its just they know how they manage what they invest in crypto. I must choose a longterm that give me a great profit than to short-term that nothing happen or no profit.

I think it depends on the type of coin, or the assets he holds. when it holds back shitcoin, which might not develop in the future. well, I think that will only make him disappointed with the results. however, when it is a pretty good coin, like bitcoin, or ETH, it might not be said to be an idiot, because the coin has tremendous potential to reach a high price.

A friend of mine says that i am stupid. I actually hold my cryptos for a long term run but he thinks that I am doing wrong decisions because If I were to sell and buy my assets multiple times where the price goes up and down, I would make a lot of money and in the end I would hold bigger amounts of cryptocurrency assets.

It can be come from the mind of idiot people. Only idiot people can think long term holders are idiot. People like you cant think long term investors are idiot and also we think they are opposite of idiot.

everyone has their own opinion. many see that most people don't see the benefits. sometimes they continue to wait for high prices, and continue to hold back so they miss opportunities in this matter. well, even though it's a good hope, but I see them throwing away their chances. but, I don't think holding back in the long run is a bad choice

People are only saying this now that the market has been down for a very long time but at the end of 2017 long term holders were considered geniuses for holding their coins for so long, and I am sure the image that we have of long term holders will change once again once the price of bitcoin begins to skyrocket and people will wish they held like them but by then it will be too late.

Exactly!

Long term holders are definitely not idiot. At least they are not trying to chase quick profits and getting rekt meanwhile. They are here for the trust they have in cryptos. Anyone investing for a period of more than 2 years is definitely going to earn some decent profit. Trust the technology.

Who said that? Being a hodler for long time isnt make you an idiot ,everyone who hodl for a long period sees in future  that they will become rich and they want ro prove that they are right on what coin  they hodl.

Experienced will exposed everything, this thread was open 2 years ago when  we do experienced the best time of crypto bull run, it's clearly stating
that those who so called long term investors really changed the way they live now, for sure they earned the huge amount of money where nobody
imagine how big the profits that they received.

I think providing proof that you can get a bigger profit than selling it some time ago, it will slap them in the face. the price is much higher than a few weeks ago, and you know that holding is beneficial to its users at this time.

Well, long-term holding is relatively safe strategy for newbies and inexperienced traders. If they go for day-trading, it is almost sure that they would lose all their funds then pack the bags and leave the market. For genuine traders, they can decide according to the situation, if it is suitable for day-trade or long-term.

Somehow this thread is still alive after two years, and I was amused by the above post.  Had someone bought bitcoin in the summer of 2017 and held it they would still be in the hole, waiting for the break even point.  Buying the dips at that time for a long term holder was not a smart move.  The only way it would have been a good move would have been if they sold before December of that year.  Hindsight is a bitch sometimes.

So you say, and with such confidence too.  If the current momentum continues, what you wrote could well be true but I've been into bitcoin long enough to expect the unexpected.  Some bad news pops up and boom, the trend can reverse itself.

Well said, and I do believe that distinction is widely made in the world of finance.  That's why day traders are called day traders and not day investors. 

In crypto, long term holders are millionaire or billionaire. Imagine you bought BTC at 2011/2012 you will be one the richest person in your country. Long term hold is always good especially in this market as the market is still child & have room to grow up big. I am holding a few altcoins over a year now & going to hold till this coin hits my target. It may take a few years more but I will hold. As so far holding coins always gave holders huge profit.

If you bought bitcoin at an all-time high price (Dec 2017). I would suggest holding a max 3 years as you will be able to recover your money. But if someone bought at this price that was very foolish. Bitcoin went 20x in one year already what they were thinking when buying at the top? We might see another year with a 20x price rising. Maybe 100k in a few years.

I dont think so. Hold for long term is one strategy in trading to get bigger profits.  The risk is to make us wait long and there is no certainty.  Therefore before we decide to hold for long term we have to make sure the coins we hold are really good and have a good future.  A good example is bitcoin.  If you choose the wrong coin, the coins that we can hold for long term only become ashes.

Long terms holders are the ones who stores the bitcoin and other coins and do not trade. Traders might lose in short term but the holders will never lose. It is obvious that with the passage of time, the value of the coin will increase , so if you can hold coins for long term, it is indeed the best for you.

2019 has not started with a not-so-bad note but as of today, Bitcoin price soared to a 4-month high above 4900 USD and its time for the cryptizens to celebrate. Wences Casares, the CEO of Xapo and a board member of Payal has been an ardent supporter of Bitcoin and has recently said that Bitcoin value might surge by atleast 250X in the near future. It looks like the bull run has already started and this time it's not going to stop.

Bakkt has already raised $182.5 million and is supported by 12 partners including Pantera Capital, Boston Consulting Group, Galaxy Digital and many more. The owners of Galaxy Digital, the Winklevoss brothers recently stated in the Aske Me Anything(AMA) session that Bitcoin is the most likely winner in the long term.

So let's start the wild ride

these long term holders are the ones making the most money as long as they end up selling in the end
once bitcoin starts getting to like 100k I doubt being a bag holder will be a good idea past that

There is nothing wrong if we prefer to hold for long term. It's just that the risk of holding for long term is far greater because it can be a coin that we hold for 2 years the price actually goes down from the first city to buy. For example the price of bitcoin is much cheaper now compared to 2017.

Your perspective is not right IMO. Investors are usually looking on long term 5,10 or more years. On the other hand traders ( real traders) can play with the market and make some short term profits. The best example is people who invested in Bitcoin when it was a few bucks. Most of them sold them early but a bunch hodl it and they are now richer than ever.

Why would they be idiots?
They are aiming for the future price and it is true that the market is unstable but that doesn't mean that the price wouldn't go up in the future.
Crypto is being adopted more and more each year and we could see how it grows.
How could you laugh at them for holding it for a long time,Most of the holders that become rich might be the one who is laughing at your statement .

"Long term is for losers."
Eh, better to lose in the short term while playing for the longterm.

They really are not idiots because when they choose this strategy, they have their calculations, they know what opportunities and situations can come to them in the future, and the profit they can achieve with their patience, usually profits will be huge. But this strategy is probably outdated and unsuitable for the moment when the market is very unstable, the replacement and renewal of altcoin's position is always happening, long-term holding is probably very dangerous, they need other strategies for the moment

We musy respect the rights of each others decisions

I  am pro holding because i trust the coins under my portfolio and nothing can change that

But ofcourse i also sell some coins or tokens that hit my target prices for short terms  but i stopped daytrading wayback years

Experienced will be the commanding factors when investing for long term journey, many investors who invest while the rise of 2017 are people who are very disapointed to this market, for those who can't resist to sell out with loses, its a failed investment but for people who still willing to wait there's still
hope and maybe time will come and everything will go up again and bring what supposedly expected from this investment.

well, i dont know if there are people who hodl this long (2011/12) till date, but that is quite long to be sincere. but as for me i have being hodling since 2018 january when the last bull run ended and its because i am not in urgent need of my coin  and i wouldnt just want to waste it.

Long term holders can be idiots if any one say bitcoin will be vanish and that person can be selected as a wise person.

Long term hodlers idiots? what the fuck planet are you from to say such an ignorant thing? ffs, look at the price charts - long term holding always pays off, it's the traders and shorters that get wrecked. I'd have to say the biggest moron in this thread is the starter.

No, long terms holders cant be an idiot. Those people who are thinking that long terms holders are idiot those are lining on the same planet where we are living but their imagination is too old and also their imagination is too poor than we think.

I still consider myself to be long-term Bitcoin holders, and as a result - I am sure that I am doing the right things. It is impossible to become a wealthy guy without being a long-term investor at all. I think it works that way. Only in this way can you achieve success and increase your capital.

There is no wrong to be a long term holder unless you are sure that certain coin will grow( for example in 2 years holding) but if not, you surely get into losing. Many long term holder have been successful but some of them also fail because of their wrong choice of coins to hold especially when a coins are coming from ICO. Cause mostly ICO coins/token never grow or even dump hard due to its market capability and if we are with this things, what a loss for us.

It's not idiotic to take profits.

Those who took profits in Dec 2017 are laughing and those who hodled are crying into their tea wondering why they held in the teeth of a 75% crash from top to bottom.

That's a lot of money to lose.

Long term holding is always good when you hold the asset that has got promised growth. There are coins that are worth nothing, holding of such coins won't be profiting us in the long term as well. It is a must to analyze and hold the best for long term and just sell it of the assets that aren't worth holding for long term. I have got around 10+ number of assets without any value, I just keep hold with the hope of at least some growth.

Long term holding is a kind of strategy that is already proven successful to many investors. If a there is a coin that is certain to go up in the future, buy and strat hloding for long term. Bitcoin for example, with its anticipated halving next year,  is predicted to go up again and make another all-time high in the next two years. And those who made millions in the stock market by means of long term holding can't be regarded as idiots, they use their minds to become wealthy.

instead we have to thank to the holders, because of him, the prices don't get worse. imagine if the holder also sells and panics when bearish some time ago. of course prices can fall below $3000. holders are not idiots, they are optimistic people and patient people. just few investors own it you know.

You rang?

You rang?

No need to ask them OP may just see the graph and then OP will be able to know who is/are idiot/idiots. It is non sense question either long term holders are idiot or not.

I don't think long term holders are clueless idiots. Not every bitcoin holders are day or swing traders, I see bitcoins as a long term investment and as storage of value.
If OP sold his bitcoins in June 2017 he would have missed out on one of the best bull runs in bitcoins historie.

The word “long-term” cannot sound foolish at least because real practice shows that it is long-term investments and long-term investors who always end up winning, and they are the people who systematically earn their fortunes while others not knowing what to do.

I agree with you. however, all of us must hold back some of the assets whose development has stopped. when looking at a project, hope will arise, so we hold the coin. no one knows what will happen in the future. we can only prepare a strategy for that. loss or not, we cannot confirm it, and we only hope for the best. this cannot be said to be stupid.

not if it comes back.

and yes i took some profit around 15k. in 20/20 hindsight i should of taken a bit more as i didnt think the bear market cycle would be this long.

but since i started in 2011 and have held most of my btc since then (but still occasionally selling some, and also buying/mining more since then), that 20k was just another ATH, one of a series of them, each subsequent ATH crushing the last.

if we go on another tear, great, ill take more profit. but for me anything over about $400 USD is profit. thats a quick, rough guess as i mined a lot of them in the $3 USD range, yes thats three dollars. but ive mined/bought since so i figure the average is about 400. if it goes below that... well it was a fun ride while it lasted. and thats the advantage of long term HODL of the bulk of your stack. after a point you can pull your initial investment out and from that point forward youre playing with house money. cant lose after that.


heh, yup

As of you that can happen for short term traders too you point is same for both short term trader and long term investors. And I also think that both are asset for crypto community and both are perfect on their position.

Well, well, well "longtermers". Still "le hodling" your worthless bags?

Love to see what rationale you will come up with this time.

Just admit it - you missed the boat. Crypto is going only down from here on. We are in a downwards channel for years now.

Smart money pumped this shit and dumped it, idiots kept "le hodling"

You are really right and the key word in your statement is that cryptocurrency is only at the very beginning of its development, even though the cryptocurrency market has been in a bearish trend for a long time.  I’m sure that the time will come when I really show my potential, but only when the cryptocurrency is legalized in all countries and when its price is more stable, the thing is that these problems are on the way to mass use of cryptocurrency  .

Indeed, we all have a different way of earning for us we prefer to use HOLD strategy because we think this will be more efficient for us but for a much better way of earning you could do day trade and Hold simultaneously. People who used to hold are not idiot, yeah the whole market is in bear trend for such a long time but that doesn't mean it will fall down. Folks have learned that these currencies are much better for the long term because not all the time it is in a good state.

lol stop coping. "Beginning of development" my ass. Crypto has been around for 10 years now, everyone has heard about it and the world collectively decided its kind of shit.

Not sure how this idea comes up exactly.   If you think crypto is completely false then I guess day trading the gains might be considered smart, its too dangerous to hold while asleep because anything could happen and a person with zero belief in any fundamentals or ongoing expansion to the sector wont want to be left holding the baby.    I can get that take, its also true for a few markets that people want to day trade it with borrowed money.
   Thats all purely speculation and just ripping the numbers off the chart with no care for what the underlying dynamics might be.   I can respect the ruthlessness of pure profit seeking behaviour and its fine in open markets.

However thats not the whole picture.   This is also about technology development, a unique pivotal point in time for a variety of reasons.   There is a bigger picture and its not all a lie.   Even if you dont believe it will float, its just a clever crossword, game, division to real commerce and its all going to fall apart.   Fair enough but its also possible you are wrong, its reasonable to hold a new developing technology.
    In 1990 if had the genius to foresee technology unfolding combined with a couple other factors, maybe you buy $1000 of Cisco shares, maybe you hold them 10 years and perhaps you end up with a million for your troubles.   Some days the prices fall and it doesn't even matter, that can be true in crypto as well.

I don't want to feed the troll but just in case you are serious... How can you say everyone decided crypto is shit when the industry is worth several hundred billion dollars and 1000s of people are employed in the sector? Crypto is helping people move funds around the world which is still a problem with traditional bank transfers which can cost 100+ dollars for intercontinental transfers and take days. Crypto is helping people who live in countries with big inflation to store value.

Price when this thread was started - around $2500.

Price now - 3x higher or so despite a couple of years of beary fun.

Spare a thought for folks like OP who probably had 10,000,000,000x leverage and thought they were a goddamn genius until that pesky 65 cent move took every last penny.

I'll look forward to popping back when it falls from six figures back to five. Am sure I'll be utterly bereft. Until then - twat.

You apparently refer to Bitcoin

But there's no direct reference or mention of it in the OP (yes, I checked). So while Bitcoin holders may not be idiots after all, given that most altcoins are left for dead by now, OP may not be wrong at all either, generally speaking, and not just about crypto (as jumping off in time is as important as jumping in). Although it largely depends on your specific entry point, there is a greater difference (in absolute terms) between today's price and the ATH of 2017, on the one hand, and today's price and the price when this thread was started, on the other

I couldn't agree with that at all. Many people don't have enough patience to hold Bitcoin on long term and many think that is not profitable enough. But that is not true and long term investment has still the lowest risk and you can make very nice profit if you have developed your strategy and you are active investor.
Bitcoin price movements will speak for itself and the theory that long term investors are idiots.

But Bitcoin was and is intended to be a peer to peer and payment processor people should use it for what it is intended for, we can hodl but we need to use it also to buy stop services and ask merchants to also include it, imagine what will happen if all investors are just Hodlers I read in one post, that 60% of Bitcoin wallets are not moving their Bitcoin, I don't think this healthy.

why the hell are you here then? The fact that banks and governments put effort to stop it's adoption doesn't mean that is shit. Also, not "everyone" has heard about it as only around 1 per cent of the worlds people own any crypto. It actually still is in the very first steps of its development compared with the monetary system that we have which has been around for thousands of years. And holding for long term seems like an idiotic move only for those who neglect the opportunity of life changing gains in bitcoin and crypto.

You can't force people to do anything

As long as it is economically rational to use Bitcoin for speculation (one group of Bitcoin users) and holding for future gains (so-called holders), there won't be any change. People are financially discouraged from spending bitcoins, while they prefer to spend fiat instead. This is a rational choice, and you can't change it

This effect has been known since ancient times and later became known as Gresham's law. Some people may be willing to spend their coins simply because their only source of income is cryptocurrencies, and they don't have access to fiat. But they don't make up the majority of Bitcoin users anyway, and thus can be discarded

everyone has their own way to be able to benefit from investing in bitcoin. short or long term investment it all depends on the decision of people who invest. we cannot impose our methods on others. because sometimes people are more comfortable making long-term investments because the risk of loss is smaller and doesn't require much focus and time. but if you invest in a short term or daily term, then every time you have to look and check bitcoin price movements. the most important thing from investment is we get profit. using the short or long term is all up to its users.

It will balance everything not just the price but the main reason of it's creation, the increase is unpredictable because of its volatile conditions. Though if demands flows up and people begin to learn this alternative currency it will serve the purpose while the value will increase and people who holds their coins as assets will be beneficiaries of long term engagement.

I think that long-term investors will still laugh at this whole situation.  First of all, it is necessary to take into account the fact that the results of long-term investments will depend only on a correctly selected portfolio.  Not all cryptocurrencies will survive and not all cryptocurrencies will have good prospects in the future, since no one has canceled the risk in the cryptocurrency market, since it is everywhere and always.  In addition, I want to recall those bitcoin owners who kept their coins from 2010 to 2017, when the price of Bitcoin soared from several centers, up to $ 20,000.  If an investment in a cryptocurrency is not a big drawback for a user, then all assets need to be stored for much longer than a year or two, since we are still at the very beginning of the development of the cryptocurrency market.

But that proves the reverse of what you are trying to convey

If some shitcoin is going to kick the bucket eventually, holding it would be an exercise in stupidity and futility. The trader would get rid of such a coin as soon as he has seen the writing on the wall. The holder, on the other hand, will keep it despite all the warning signs. I don't how it can possibly be construed as long-term "investors" (as you call them) laughing at this whole situation. They must have a surreal sense of humor then, I should admit

What do you mean "not having an option"? You had an option to sell during obvious downtrend after 20k pop. Like you had so much time to sell anywhere in 12-18k range. LMAO how the fuck do you miss something that obvious? And yes, it WAS OBVIOUS!

If they do not have the patience to hold their bitcoin to get profits with this market that moves so quickly then what kind of hope those people have in the stock market which does not move as fast or what they will do if they decided to hold gold which is a market in which a whole decade could pass without any significant movement? Being an investor means accepting it will take a considerable amount of time to see profits and anyone that cannot accept this fact should not even try or they will lose their capital and become bitter about it.

HOLD strategy is not for idiots that is a way to win in the long term that is practiced by the community. In fact, I have noticed that there are programs created by some altcoins that appear at the top of the crypto market that offer their users this way of earning a percentage for holding it. As we all know crypto is in its first stage and its market is being created for various types of users. There will be those who are in favor of HOLD and who is not.

I dont think long term holders are idiots..
Sure if u sell all the time when the price is low you would be making much more money.

If u look at stocks 10-20 years ago you will see the price for almost all company's has risen a lot, I think that is going to be the same for Bitcoin, we all know the halvening is comming and what effect that will have on the price of Bitcoin.
Back in 2014 people where asking if Bitcoin could reach a 1000$ again  ;D now the question is can it reach 20000$ again, and I think for sure that is a possibility we are going to see 100000$ bitcoins the next comming years is my prediction, and then those long term holders are going to be happy as well.

I agree the best would be to sell it at the highest point and then rebuy again at a certain price, but you would need to actually understand the market and do research.

No, I don't think that. The last bull run did not click for the long term holders but you have to remember by holding a long time some people become a millionaire! No one thought Bitcoin can come at this high, but holders had believed on it and they got a result already! I know many people who bought Bitcoin at 500$, just think about them, they are now rich people in my country!

Holding an asset for a very long time and then sell it for a higher price is a known strategy that works all across the markets, it is very easy to execute and it can give you great profits, the only problem with holding is that you need a lot of time to see the profits that you want, but if you are a long term investor and you are willing to wait that is not really a problem, but many people believe they can become long term investors only to discover later that they can't and months later they want the market to skyrocket even if holding is not really about that.

This is not the only problem

Another problem, actually the major problem in this matter, is the fact that with cryptocurrencies, most cryptocurrencies I'd say, it is no use waiting no matter how long you are going to wait. In other words, if you bought some shitcoin and it kicked the bucket in the process, then no amount of waiting is going to help you even if the coin is technically still alive (read, it hasn't been completely delisted from all exchanges)

As you can see, well, as anyone can see, long-term holding has its own drawbacks and pitfalls which you must be aware of and concern yourself with lest you should turn into a bag holder for someone less long-term oriented and who knows better than recklessly holding (if I can say so)

Some people even think that those who invested in bitcoin and hold it are all idiots but who cares? Because just see statistics, no one can say that holding or even hodling wasn't beneficial because numbers are just proof of that. So now imagine those who invested in bitcoin when price was some cents and sold it when price was 20K. It would be a long term hold because price was some cents in 2008-2009 and we saw huge price rise in 2017 so what? If someone hold for 9 years, it would be more than 50000x rise in price. Are those people silly and are you smart who did 5% profit from trading or even lose that?

Which is why I've said in the past Bitcoin holders can be a misnomer for a lot of Bitcoin users -- if I can call myself that among others -- since we do maintain "savings" that we generally add to, but we're also using them all the time, more frequently even. Some keep seeking new ways to use it and for those earning chiefly in bitcoin now, as more and more freelancers I suspect are, it's more circumstance than choice that we're actually using bitcoin. This sets it apart from other alts, where most holders are simply just that... holders, without being users.

It's really a shame, maybe you can buy casino script for learning purposes or to take some free time with already written code and modify it for own casino but you can't launch casino business with just paying 100$ in script and that's all. It still even depends on script, I have seen professional ones that are rented. You can keep that script, but at least keep some shame and show your website to people with different template cause almost every new casino wears same cms and same design, it's not nice.
I'll include link of official script to prove fairness of my words: https://codecanyon.net/item/crypto-casino-slot-machine-online-gambling-platform-laravel-5-application/23088602

I dont think so.
You shouldn't forget that till end of 2017, the holders were the real winners of crypto market. that long down trend does not mean that holders will not make good profits again in the future.

Not only in 2017, the hodlers proved to be market winners. It also happened a few times before - actually with every earlier ATH. I am sure that the new ATH is still ahead of us, so those who bought even during the bull run in 2017 will definitely have a chance to make a profit from this investment.

But returns or profits won't really be that the same compared to those who hodl when the price was still low. The disadvantages of being a hodler is that you do miss out on selling on ATHs which you do already earn massive and just buyback when the market crashes but well its too late to regret because market is really unpredictable which you can't spot out on whats the possible peak price or bottom.

Therefore, the best solution for long-term investment is to plan in advance the profit we want to achieve and not be guided by greed, but common sense. All those who do not sell at the time of the bubble usually lose patience and sell when the price drops. To be a good hodler, you just need to have great patience and get rid of greed. Then no one will ever call you "idiot".

 I have been a person who on/off has been holding bitcoin for the past 7 years this april, sure I sold some and bought some, earned some and spent some but none of that because what the price was, I have never been a guy who looked at what the price of bitcoin is when I do something with it, I look at it at bitcoin valuation and what I can get for it etc, I was here when I had over 2 bitcoins that I spent on silly stuff but I was here when I spent 0.2 on crucial life saving stuff as well and that 0.2 was higher in price than that 2 because I have been here that long. Never considered being long term an idiotic move, long term is actually people who think bitcoin will worth something more than just dollars.

They are profit winners when the market goes up.
But in the last years the prices are moving only downwards making holders not having so many profits.
Having said that it is not worth it holding.

Easy to say but really hard to be done yet this would really need for you to be somewhat like numb or emotionless.
Being a hodler would really need to pass all of these challenges for you not to able to sell if theres a bubble.
We cant really avoid that panic in mind unless if you decide not to look for the entire market condition for too long
and just forget that you have stored something on your wallet.

Bought some at $200 and still hodling. I don´t feel like an idiot  ???

damn its true? and after reaching a peak of $19,000 you don't sell it at all? indeed we will never know with the highest price that will be achieved by bitcoin, maybe you have a target to sell if it touches $50,000 or $100,000 right?

This is a shaky and in fact rather flimsy argument

How so? Because it can be easily turned against you and your view. Okay, you say that someone bought a handful of bitcoins in Bitcoin's early years (before 2013), and he got pretty decent (actually quite handsome) returns for simply having the patience to hold long enough. Let's just say I agree with that

However, now imagine a situation when someone had bought as many bitcoins in late 2017 near or at the ATH. So how is long-term holding going to help him? Indeed, you could say that his pains will be rewarded in the future. But we don't know when exactly this future is going to come, and whether at all

https://a.radikal.ru/a21/2001/b8/50300448c0c0.jpg

As they say, everyone is wise after the event

Sure I wish I knew 19k was the peak. But that time I did not care much and thought it might go higher. 40-50k sounds like a good exit point to me. At least I will sell 50% and invest 80% of that 50% into something else that gives me a monthly cashflow instead of just pure luck and speculation if the price goes up or down.

Still I am in profit and don´t feel like an idiot.

To me, holding in the long term is not an idiocy, it was just the result of not having an option. Many long-term hodlers, as you will note, are just small investors. They have no choice but to hodl because they can't afford to lose the small amount of money in their pockets. Although some of them are trying to trade, they can't, sadly, because their money may not be a good starting capital.

a person who makes a long-term investment is not a loser. because not all crypto investors have a lot of time to focus on crypto trading and making short-term investments. no problem making a long-term investment that is important coins that we hold can last long in the crypto market and can provide benefits.

If you are holding for long term, you don't expect that all your coins will be profitable, when the bullish time comes, some of the coins you are holding might increase to 20x, 50x, or even 100 x, and that's the timing you will have to wait and then you can sell, doing that will make you profitable in overall.

Therefore, long term holders are no idiot.

yes it does not matter, because it's everyone's decision and yours too. but the problem is whether your decision is correct? because sometimes when making long-term investment choices most end up badly and not in accordance with initial expectations. well maybe there are those who have succeeded in gaining extraordinary benefits, but sometimes crypto conditions are difficult to guess, it could even be that the assets that you hold will become worthless.
However, I agree that someone who makes a long-term investment is not a loser BUT if making the right choice.

Not that they are losers but I see them as investors who are scared of taking risk.
Or on the other hand, they are not investors but hodlers because real investors always look out for a time to dump and buy in again cheaper. For the investors, it is about how to get a turn over.

No, I don't think that way. Honestly, no matter how it looks now, I think it's the most lucrative and less risky long-term investment in Bitcoin. But it all depends on circumstances, when you purchased Bitcoin exactly and how long you kept it and when you sold it. So, to my mind, not every decision has its background and should be estimated on the basis of circumstances valid at the time.

They're cleverer for me than us. It is very clear that real long-term investors are betting on coins in the marketcap which are in the top and that have a lot of potential to grow in the future. They will be at the top for a long time, because these wealthy investors know it's got a shot of being used internationally and giving them a return far more than they expected. Holding long term is probably the best thing to do.

It takes a lot of effort to be a holder. Most people can't do it because they are weak or scared or lack dedication and willpower. Sometimes they are just poor and need money or get struck by a problem in life or family and need money. Not many of us can afford to spend 9000 USD for a bitcoin and forget about it.

For the above reason holders win and they will keep winning. If you can do what most people cannot you profit.

You were wrong on that time mate because you never knew what gonna happen after four months of this thread! Bitcoin started pumping incredibly, went to 19K USD, Altcoins had the bull fun, ICO industry had a golden time! What a time was that! But in the present condition, yes long term holders did a mistake! Because you have to know when to sell and when to buy, otherwise you won't make good things only by holding!

BTW dont you think the exact opposite could be true, for a market sector that has continually reaching greater highs for ten years even after pulling back substantially; selling was arguably wrong at any point.     How can anyone come to the conclusion to hold is a negative in something so hard to judge but with such great growth.  
   Years ago not super long after I registered on this forum, I sold some BTC to buy a monitor.   Fair enough, its been used and it wasn't frivolous or anything but if I had opted not to get the monitor and just continue on squinting that BTC would probably buy a truck now or a large deposit on one.   That would have been nice, its far better to find ways to employ BTC and still retain it as an asset rather then swap to FIAT.
  Thats the story of capitalism pretty much, the money circulates to serve a purpose despite saying its not fair to one side for various reasons.  Its actually beneficial to see a good exchange between all points on the network, I dont believe in only hodling or selling and never coming back just try to do a little of both and neither side is wrong imo.

I'm a long term HODL'er and I sometimes think so. But it is much easier to be a long term HODL'er and have your delusions if you have been one since 2013

and Bitcoin was on Oct 18th, 2013 when I started mining on my KNC Jupiter BTC miner about 1 BTC a day!

Thus if you are correct, I don't 'sweat' my obvious idiocy all that much don't ya know. Probably I am clueless indeed, but somehow it does not seem to bug

me much, even if you happen (the op) to be correct.

puzzling? Can't be because of the BTC price now right?

Naw...this can't be because I'm a delusional idiot according to the OP..therefore I can't be that vain nor smart...indeed...BT

BTC HODL'ing since 2013 must be a hobby..yeah that's it I HODL as a hobby...all these BTC because I think they are pretty like marbles...

(shiny!)

Brad

How did they not have a choice?

First, they had a choice not to invest at all, and then to disinvest when there still was a window for that (to minimize their losses). Unless we are talking about investments in major coins, and not at their ATH's at that, these people most likely have already lost their small investments

Further, if you can't trade because you don't have a good starting capital, then there is nothing to worry about losing what you have simply because your investment is just too small on its own. You can't have it both ways


You were just lucky to buy (mine) very cheap to still see handsome profits. This is not the case with most so-called long-term holders (read, there is nothing to brag about)

A $5,131.80 investment on a KNC Jupiter Miner is not luck, it is called investing or the big boys call it 'venture capitalism' most folks I know heard and knew about BTC but did

not act. I heard about it in 2009 but was otherwise occupied with Real Life Issues.  But did jump in about 2013. IMHO, everyone had the chance to get on the train in 2009 but

blew it off, thus, my come to papa moment happened earlier due to research again, most latecomers after I had the BAD LUCK not to revisit BTC and crypto till much later.

That is the way of Capitalism my friend, first at the table always eats the best.

Long term investors had no regrets for hodling their coins obviously they not idiots, it is always painful for not getting to know bitcoin earlier, I would have bought massively and hodl for a longer term perspectives and wouldn't mind if called an 'idiot' after all I had made a huge profits and I would keep on hodling as far as bitcoin exist.

well, a person should hodl at least some 'dust' BTC for the next ATH. If such does not happen big whoop, if it was just money you can afford to speculate with...if BTC

succeeds you may think you are a very smart fellow in 2024 at the next halving.

BTC either works or it won't pick a side.

The long term holders of bitcoin are still the greatest winners of this market, even if you bought bitcoin at the beginning of 2017 when it was around 1000 dollars then you are still obtaining 7.5x your capital after just 3 years and that is really good if you compare those kind of results to any other market and that is after a huge bear market, if we take that measure the next time we are in a bull market your profits could be 2 or even 3 times your current profits.

too far to think halving in 2024, we have to see whether this year's halving will be as successful as 2017 and if it can make the new ATH better sell it immediately and not continue to hold it, because there will definitely be a big dump after that, well if we still hold it might be said to be an idiot.

If you are long term holder for bitcoin then you are smart but the market is filled with thousands of shit coins and token projects which are worthless and if you invest in those during the initial phase and did not bother to sell of when you hit the profit then you are going to be the bag holder. So where you invest makes a huge difference.

Did you experience how to earn massive income in long term OP? or realize it now that long term investment in bitcoin is more profitable?  every long term investor now are not regretting why they choose to hold, they regret that they didn't invest in the start and hold it for long term. maybe you are included to those fools who are not knowledgable if they saw market price.  

It is just them same as holding Bitcoin. If you are late to sell, you won't get anything but loss so I don't think you are smart just because you hold bitcoin for a long term. You are smart if you know when to sell and when to buy, cause the purpose of investment is to take a profit not just to see your portofolio stats increase.

And even there are many people believe Bitcoin price will go to the moon one day, it is now just speculation so it would be better if you can make money during the journey to the moon.

Long term holders are not idiots as they have chosen the easiest way of trading; if anyone who understand that holding is still a type of trading will never think about holders as idiots. Trading skills are not possible for most people and this type of people simply choosing to be a long term holders. I guess if crypto space is not believing into long term holding then we cannot have the marketcap what we are having today; marketcap of crypto space might be doing under one billion dollar level too and bitcoin might be trading below $100 without long term adopters.

As I bought in from 1200 down to 200.  No.. no I think we are mini warren buffets :)


He is a buy and hold kind of guy.

Buy stocks cheap, get a large cash position when they rise. 

Rinse repeat for ever.

smart or not, it depends on what price you hold. if you hold it from a high price, I think it's a mistake. however, if you take advantage of the decline to wait for it to bounce back, I think it is a clever way. but, it all depends on the time.

I'm convinced we are. I have been holding for five years and didnt have all this profit the hodlers cult talk about.

If I had sold, however, would have seem some profit.

The sad thing is that I will need to hold for five more years until bitcoin is able to breach 10k again. Right now we are going to sub-1000s levels.

Are you trolling or just deluded? Your "facts" don't add up. You say you've been holding for 5 years. That means since 2015.

In 2015 the price of Bitcoin was well under $1k. The current price is over $6k. At one point it was over $19k. Even at its lowest point in between it was still over $3k.

Even at the worst reckoning you've made well over 200% profit. At best it was over 1800%. In reality if you'd bought at 2015's lows, your profits would have been 5x those numbers.

5 more years to "breach 10k"? LOL  Going to sub-1000s? Now I know you're trolling. Or maybe just a member of the trading cult.  ::)

See you next year. Meanwhile, check out the Wall Observer thread to see how the more successful people live.

The WO thread is a clique. There is nothing of value to see there.

The fact is that it is very difficult to predict the further development of events in the cryptocurrency market, but I am sure that every investor who has made long-term investments will receive very good profit, unless he hopes to make a profit in the near future.  In any case, you need to have additional sources of income so as not to disturb your investments, which may need to be kept for several years.
In addition, one must take into account the fact that in the coming events they can significantly improve the situation in the cryptocurrency market, since thanks to the BTC halving, prices have risen in previous years, which should be repeated this year as well, and for ethereum, a significant improvement will bring ETH2.0,  which in any case will affect the entire cryptocurrency market.  Therefore, I believe that Ethereum and Bitcoin are the best bidders for long-term investments.

You're probably right about that bit, but he's right about the breakdown of your timing.

How is it possible that you're out of pocket? If you'd arrived in 2015 and bought you will have much done better than me who bought through late 2013 and into 2014. I'm certainly not complaining but I could've been 2-3x further up than I am for the same outlay and I'm doing well anyway.

The only explanation is trading and that's something that never crossed my mind as many casualties of this thread will prove.

Fuck off flip-flopper. No one cares what you think.

Fuck you. Get a very big dildo and bury it in your ass.

   Thats a good demo of why people dont make the headline profit figure, they get shaken out and upset by the erratic markets when the very largest players are always aiming for balance with security and growth hence why they hedge if they can and that idea is best to have not the concept of buying all at the bottom and selling all at the top.      Its perfectly sensible not idiotic to hold Bitcoin as some savings of value earnt and only use it when you are requiring something, BTC is a useful payment method and BTC is one of a variety of asset types its fair to own.   I wouldn't say put all you have into BTC because its obvious your apparent worth can vary from riches to rags and back again and thats not a reasonable plan to have.    
   Unfortunately private players or investors or holders however you want to phrase, they are busy with life and dont get the trading profits some might see.   I'd also argue just the same for owning your own house if possible and its not easy to get on that ladder, own some gold interest as a hedge also.     Cash itself has problems because its certain to lose every year hence BTC is always reasonable to hold in some % of your total worth year to year.
   BTC long term is reasonable in contrast, try to resist going all in or selling out; I wish I had held more myself from 2013 and that year was a very big peak but even then it was ok to hold some

Trading is a sucker's game.

Traders are milked by exchanges just like rubes at casinos.

I resemble the remarks above but then again been in HODL mode (mostly) since 2013.
The current catch is with the Pandemic and IMHO, the crummy way Trump and the Senate are managing the USA, I currently look at BTC/Crypto as a 'hedge'.
If the current powers that be have or can exert control and destroy decentralized crypto-currency like BTC and privatize the blockchain process completely.
Well, I am retired on 'traditional stocks', etc.  So no great risk. Living off the 4% interest and 65 years old so 60% bonds/etc suited to people old as dirt as myself.

If on the other hand, now with Trump in office and the Pandemic and other black swan events in the play, we have what 7 trillion dollars of printed out of air money
now in the USA with pandemic and tax cuts from the last few years? Well, then when the Pandemic goes away (whenever) then IMHO we will have to not only pay
as a society for probably the 'needed' 7 Trillion to survive this and recover in the USA, I feel it very, very likely some hard questions will be asked about other things.
Gonna be a 'lot' more clarity on the 2.5 trillion of the above that did not 'trickle' down and help society before or after this Pandemic. Schools/Roads/Bridges/etc and
infrastructure, in general, will also be past the pale to ignore. Add to the fact that after this pandemic, will be MORE of a push towards telework/robots/or moving and decentralizing manufacturing around the world....it will be damn harder to get a job or go to University or whatever.

Also, everyone after the pandemic, from a 'fiscal' point of view, is going to be Japanese in how they use money, tight as f*ck. The days of 70% of the economy
of consumer spending driving the market are gone. Everyone under 40 years, never really facing this before are gonna pay off their house, they almost lost in
the pandemic) get health care, freak out about the job they lost save for other options or education. Everyone will have 'fiscally' grown the f*ck up as they did
after the roaring 1920s of wine and song after the great depression in the 1930s. People, even if it is a fast rebound, would have looked fiscal reality in the face.
50% of retirement and house value or business or corporation value 'poof' ...even if it all comes back, people will be changed. Like the Japanese economy for the last
20 plus years more conservative growth and less consumer spending and more debt pay down and saving.

So, if the above 2nd process comes to pass (remember I'm clueless this is my speculative bet) and the politicians use hyperinflation and other tricks to pay
down these economic bills, I'm talking 1980's 23% credit cards and over 10% inflation a  year. Bitcoin/Crypto is the other half of this and why I'm in HODL mode.
IF it acts, especially in developing nations that, in the above manner,  will have it much worse than the USA, as a truly decentralized store of value that out-paces traditional investments, you may have BTC/Crypto make up for the above.

So sh*t goes sideways on traditional investments...stocks/gold and ESPECIALLY BTC/crypto is where the $$$ will run to. IF they are a store of value at that time.

Now I know I'm wrong on ONE of the TWO above. One or on the other hand,  I will get creamed. But to think I'd dump a mess of BTC/Crypto cash out into a US economy
where I'm already well invested and taking retirement income as a 'double down' now is just silly, again, IMHO. The plan B of BTC/Crypto seems well in play now
with Trump in office and this Black Swan Event and likely very deep recession, if not worse. We will have to see inflation and job losses come back with the usual economic problems that come with it. BTC/Crypto is my hopeful store of value hedge on this. But again, this could take years in either camp to come back.

In the short-term say next 2 months. I expect my traditional investments to go down below 50% from highs in Feb 2020. I would not be surprised if BTC
went down even more to around 3-4k... But, again, IMHO, you can't just watch traditional investments get creamed like this and print trillions of dollars worldwide and expect not to have economic and inflationary consequences...thus leaving my Hoard/HODL as it is.

If they both go, well won't matter much will it. IF one of the above goes sh*t, say BTC/Crypto goes beanie baby...I'm still ok...but on the other side if traditional
investments and such take a 'decade' to come back to 2020 highs...I have a damn hard time believing that BTC/Crypto will not act, even if modestly, as a store
of value and hedge my bets, with all the inflation and mass economic damage of these trillions printed out of thin air.  Also, remember at 65 years old as of this last Monday, in 20  years they will stick me a Nursing Home anyway, if I'm lucky..so big whoop, take a chance on my views on BTC/Crypto...well, it won't matter much if I'm full of sh*t.

Again, I do think when the reality of the coronavirus hits the rest of the country, and hospitals are overcome for a period of say 2-3 weeks, even with good
social distancing the stock market will level  out at 50% down from Feb 2020 high and BTC could go below 3k. You have to sell in either area due to world and real-life issues you are neither buying stock nor crypto. Real-life issues with everyone selling at the same time is gonna be dire. Got to pay for grandma in the ICU. I have to believe for both systems when thing stabilizes there will be a buyback, tough one against inflation, but still a buyback. Or hell all hope is lost and the world indeed
will have a 'blade runner' type future. But in the next 5 years say, yech, IMHO.
 
Sh*t is gonna get real. Brace for such. If I'm wrong, well I hope so, but if I'm right, prepare yourself, all of this is black swan uncharted economic times even
without tossing BTC/crypto in the mix. again, I'm clueless, but I'm playing it this way. Only risk what you can afford to lose in real-life issues though, there is a possibility it may take a generation to get out of this hole in whatever you own in this black swan pandemic and economic event.

It may come to pass, economically speaking that today's millennial generation is in economic terms, may have more in common someday with their depression era
great,great,grandparents...then their parents when all this is said and done!

dire times indeed

my 2 satoshi's worth

Brad