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Hello, guys what do you think about the profitability in the near future. Like two, three months. mining on RX 5xx and 4xx will be still profitable? what about Rx vega how much it can change market? what witch epoch ?? the hashrate will drop so hard. what when the ethereum proof of stake. the miners will change the Currencies.

The future can't be predicted but if you asking for opinions, mine is that within 3 months revenue will be down to between $1 and $2 per card per day.  How much of that is profit (if any) will depend on your electric cost.  Difficulty will almost certainly continue to increase and prices I think will not rise significantly.  I wouldn't worry about POS - the good times will be a distant memory by the time that happens.

But that's just my opinion.  Other people may well think very differently.  It's a gamble or a hobby but IMHO I wouldn't call it an investment at this stage.

It's a gamble if you are putting lots of money into the mining game today.

But you have to consider a few things. 

The market has gone into a bear market and all coins are taking a big shit, eth down 20%, difficulty keeps rising, the eth difficulty bomb artificially rising difficulty at increasing rates and hardware prices at all times high. 

In 2-3 months those memory's of making 5 bucks a day per gpu will be remembered as the good days, right there with litecoin.

Will ne good i think because more investire will join the party and the value will increase even more, there is no risk in mining because the gpu csn always be resold without  much problem

Obviously rising difficulty returns will slow down through the end of the year..Everyone has their own opinion. However I have read about something called the Ethereum Ice Age protocol, i'd look into it.. but there will always be a coin to mine IMHO. Just has to be worth it to you, financially.

I invested a substantial amount of money, well atleast for myself ha.. but the investment building multiple set-ups i'll never regret ha. And well, they're doing great and on track with my projected returns, and considering the long term variable cost of Eth and it's potential. I'm not concerned..

ZEC being a privacy protocol coin affiliated with btc, which if i'm not mistaken will be PoW, always. I think it's a huge safety for miners with the eth PoS issue on mind..

I think ETH will hold it's own as the dominant cryptocurrency, but if btc stays alive for a considerable amount of time, longer then when the ETH ice age protocol hits .. I think zcash will still be there, as an extremely profitable coin to mine..

For example today with ETH taking a dive and the past couple of days for that matter, I'm much better off changing all my rigs to mine zec vs eth at the moment..

Lastly, which kind of gave me the push into mining..I feel if you're purchasing high end tech hardware, re-sell is phenomenal with GPU shortages along with everything else disappearing.. if crypto crashes and mining becomes unprofitable.. Next most profitable coin or a yard sale should be able to cover any 'losses' and then some. I don't believe in losses when it comes to this though.. At the point the difficulty exceeds profitability I'll already have returned on my investment.. but again, everyone has their own opinion.

Not realy.
There will be tons of other miners selling them so they will go dirt cheap, not really gonna help ROI :)

In the last two weeks my profitability has gone from $32 a day to $24. Added almost 2 months to my breakeven.  

By the end of this month your 5 months return of investment will become 5 years hehe

There will definitely be a point where GPU resell will be substantial.. I mean i bought 12 x rx580's for 250.00 per...

I could unload next year for close to the same price IMO. My 1080ti's i'm very confident in resell value as well. Again, just my 2 cents.

I think everyone is overestimating resale value.

Majority of current price is driven by miners who are looking to jump in the craze.  However, what do you think will happen once this becomes unprofitable again? 

Market will be flooded with people trying to sell their equipment about 3-5 months from now. 

Crypto has been bearish for a good few days now and there will be a lot of shaky hands around.

Mining can not remain this profitable unless new money keeps flowing into crypto due to the massive amount of hardware entering the ecosystem.

All these new miners are looking for ROI and money will keep pouring out.

Global events, however, do play a massive part.

A large global recession or currency collapse will cause investors to flood to precious metals and more than likely digital gold (crypto).

IMO

When mining becomes unprofitable again you'll be lucky to sell used [4,5]xx cards for the cost of shipping

Yeah, the 1080ti is a flagship and will hold its price for a long time, at least until Volta arrives.

Vega i hear someone shouting in the back? 1080ti will crush Vega  ;D

3-5 months?

Dude, if coin values keep dropping like they are now, this is gonna happen in less than a month.

that's the possibility with mining difficulty so while its still doing it keep trying and enjoy the ride and be wise invest only with your money that really spare and never invest all in even in mining equipment since a lots of miners and newbies who loves to mine that will be a possible competitors inside this investment so be very careful.

Block times for ETH are going to increase to 20 seconds in a few weeks and then to 30 second in two months. This will drive up the difficulty on its own as it reduces the amount of ETH that's mined per day. When this happens the MILLIONs of GPUs mining ETH will move into other coins crashing any profit and skyrocket the difficulty. People can forget about ROIing on their gear this year as their biggest choice will be if they're willing to mine at a loss or close to it or take the loss and sell their gear. Those who went about this smartly will prosper as sadly it will be the new people who will suffer the most...

https://blog.ethereum.org/2017/05/24/roundup-round-iii/

These are the same conversations I saw 3 years ago..
After the hype, the mining market crashes.. which is why I only bought (2) 1080tis..
I got into the game late.. So this way I at least have a monster gaming rig at the end of this.

However, maybe we will get lucky and it won't take 3 years for another hype and today's mining equipment will still be valid.

Miners are not the primary driving force for the price of ethereum.. I think you need to look at the bigger picture..Not sure if you think everyone's dumping their equipment in 3-5 months because of PoS, some may, but people with a plan when this started, won.. If you're privvy to whats going on with Casper protocol, ethereum ice age protocol, have a backup plan for a coin to mine, and a fire sale plan for your hardware. It's tough to take a hard loss. Research and plan.

I really hope, that coin prices start rising, so we can all enjoy profits a bit longer.

Does anyone else see zcash as an extremely solid PoW coin when Eth Ice Age hits or Casper is implemented?
Or am I alone here..

My hardware is still within it's 30 day no question asked return window..
It is very tempting to just pack it up, haha.

If people did the investment research and applied it to the mining world there'd be such a better understanding for how things can go..

I subscribe to Teeka Tiwari of the Palm Beach Group of hes been traveling the world reporting on crypto, the developers, cause and effect, and ETH as a whole.. he's been an incredible real time source of ETH news.

Market crash is something that everybody should expect when mining goes to masses, driven by mass media in several countries. Everyone who has been in this game for 3-4 years should remember exactly the same state. And as the wheel rolls, hype-people will leave, enthusiasts will stay.

Agreed, along with the possibility of Casper not being implemented in time for PoS, there is a possibility for the difficulty clock to be reset.

The comments in all these "profitability threads" have me feeling one way about the impending crash.....

http://img.michaeljacksonspictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/more-popcorn.gif

If you've thought about it, so have the millions of other miners. People forget there are MILLIONs of GPUs mining ETH and only a few thousand to hundred thousand mining most other coins. What do people think will happen to Zec when the number of GPUs mining it goes from a few hundred thousand to a million+ gpus? Block times for ETH are about to bump up to 20 seconds in approx two weeks and again up to 30 seconds by September approx if NO hash is added to ETH. We all know that's not going to happen, so the next few weeks we will see which miners have a solid plan to mine at razor thin margins or potentially even at a loss till the market thins out.....oh there's my popcorn

I can't speak for other people when it comes to 'thinking about it', I don't know that all these miners have a plan for when ETh goes PoS, they could just give up? They might not understand value of other coins, who knows? You can't say for certain.. Because clearly people like to follow a trend of believing 100% impending doom on mining that was apparently suppose to happen, a while ago.. Last month..3 months from now, 5 months, you name it.

I understand the difficulty rising and lowering  ROI, but I would have to say the likelihood of millions of GPU's merely switching coins, versus a fire sale of their equip, isn't going to be as high as it seems you think it may.. I think people will give up that are eth dependent and the people that have been in it and know what they're doing will persist, with higher difficulty.

Mining on a gpu is over.. Get out while you can..
If you need someone to buy your gpu, send me a pm

 :D  wahaha
I kid..

I wish I stayed around the last time difficult got bad and profit dried up..
I think I will stick around this time.

If you know what you're doing and got in at the right time there are a couple avenues to take for when ETH shits the bed(PoS). I have my plan. Happy to hear you'll be sticking around. Not denying things wont be hard but I think it's the right choice versus shitting your pants and selling good hardware. But hey, that's what a ton of people will do. Looking forward to referencing this thread in December with full breakdowns.

I am still within me 30 day return window.. So I totally didn't get in at the right time.
But, I have a few bucks to play with to see if I can make some money long term.

If you have a good recommendation as to where to point m (2) 1080ti's, I would appreciate.
You can PM me .

of course

Last week.

RX 470 4GB made $7/day with dual mining

Today...

$3.50/day


Still profitable but a crazy drop in such a short amount of time...

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets chopped in half again, then lots of people will start to quit.

People will quit when it goes down to $0.50/day maybe...

It is going down unfortunately. I just jumped into the game and bought 3 Sapphire Pulse RX 580 4GB, they were doing 4.5 USD at the beginning in ethereum, today only 2.5 and this with overclocking the memory to 2000 I heard experienced people here say and I did it.
I bought one RX 580 for the price of 399 USD at ebay, prices are even higher now and I wonder why when the profitability going down. Maybe it is better to wait when Ethereum is not profitable and mine some new coins.

I've only been back into mining for about a month or so.
Got in late after litecoin, too.
Stopped mining when it was no longer "profitable", in 2014 or so, and sold off my rigs.
Still managed to double/triple my original investment over time, and only doubled because I was stupid enough to stop following markets, (losing lots of shitcoins due to delistings, when I could have sold them for small fortunes - bad so much eac and xsi 😪).
I basically had given up.
So here's what I think after the last BTC rally.
I am ignoring current profitability and ROI calcs.
What I care about is how much hardware I can have up and running to accumulate cryptos I either genuinely believe in or that I believe will pump eventually.
I am basing my profit projections on how much my BTC will be worth when one BTC will cost 10, 20, 30, 100k, years and years from now. Block chain and cryptos are here to stay, and they will grow into a monster. We haven't seen anything yet.
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
At this stage It's far too speculative to invest in unless you stand to lose the money you put into your hardware.
But if you wait long enough, you will make money.
every now and then another crypto will pop up that will even show you day to day gains, Like ltc once did, like eth and others are showing now, but as far as I see it, that's only good because it lets me buy more equipment and set aside for power costs when times get rough.

ANd until the next rally, I will be buying all of the equipment being dumped by the shaky newbs (like I did last time!)

Mining alternate coins and shape shifting into ETH has strong promise for mining speed, at least.. Amazing the price of these gpu's now, 12 of my 580's were 249.99.

I've been collectively hashing around 600 mh/s all pointed at ETH in my dpool and it's gone from 60$ to 54$ per day.. noticeable drop yeah no doubt. Just re evaluating the best and most profitable methods. and praying for a difficulty clock reset before Casper get's it's chance to come into the picture.

You couldn't of said it any better my friend, only thing i'm not entirely positive on is the longevity of BTC. How promising it will be in the future with how applicable Ethereum is and what it'll be able to achieve. BTC is a huge driving force no doubt, you think BTC will increase in value at this point? Or even stay relevant?..

Haha I love it, nothing ventured, nothing gained

Although what I think is only worth what you paid for it, I will say that as long as I feel that the value of other cryptos will rest on the value of BTC, then that's where I will hedge most of my gains.
I think that the real gains will come with higher adoption rates, when BTC and/or whenever other cryptos stop being seen as commodities and start serving as the currency BTC was designed to be.
And all technical issues aside, I think that BTC is definitely the crypto with the most exposure to the masses, which is why I feel it has a fairly solid future.

I got you, in my opinion I really don't think BTC price and ETH have a super strong correlation like other crypto's..

Once they unveiled what they have planned for eth and etc and the whole ecosystem as a whole, moved right pasts the steps BTC was trying to make since 2014. I just really think ETH will pass BTC up based on applicability.. but thats just an opinion.

Personally I hope btc stays up there cause zec rides it's coat tail. Good info though thanks for sharing

Lol, this is definitely the "high risk" portion of my investment portfolio!

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now and made the bulk of my investment within this past year and just recently got my first (and last) rig up and running.

My opinion is that the whole thing is just a continuous pump and dump. Its no different than a ponzi scheme where you require a greater fool to buy at a higher price from you. you have new dumb money getting sold on $5k-$100k bitcoin prices from hype and idiot memes, spending their paychecks on coinbase market buys as well as pure gambling on shitcoins while whales cash out to from these greater fools in predictable intervals. That's like the only pattern there is. It's just been exacerbated as of recently due to btc soft fork FUD and ETH ICOs cashing out the moment fundraising is over...they dont give a sh#t and the price tanking reflects that.

We should be really worried how all crypto coins are tied to btc price and how there's really no way to evaluate the worth of these coins via fundamental analysis.

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

Mining at the end of 2013 was a little better because they were less GPUs.

I remember at the beginning of the year in Jan-Feb, a R9 280X made like $10/day, then in March it was $7.50, then in April like $5.00, then in May like $2.50, then throughout the summer around $1-2/day, and finally ending the year at $0.25/day.

This is based on the fact that you sold everyday for fiat since BTC also kept going down.

But what's happening in 2017 is crazy nuts. To have profitability literally drop by half in 5 days or so...

The big thing is how the price of Eth is tanking plus the difficulty.

A few days ago I got really worried Eth was going to tank with block times going up, plus ico's cashing out so I moved my mined eth into btc and litecoin 70% and 30% split (eth was $330 then).  Litecoin wasn't that good of a move but btc isn't too horrible, still better off than Eth, loses are at about 10% vs eth 20%+ I would of had.

When the blocks time jump again the summer sale could get even worse, Eth can barely handle the transactions and that creates panic.  But the fork will happen eventually last summerish, at that time things could really turn around.

Many people will try to sell their GPU-s as they will think there is no more profit to be made right now with actual price of the cryptos, especially ethereum. I am personally hoping that many people leaving the home mining scene should result in a falling down of the difficulty and more profit for people who will have patience and keep mining at home and waiting for better days.

okay but any way with the rx 5xx if you check the epoch switch. Hashrate go down every 10 epoch so quickly. maybe better will be sell the cards if still people want them and wait for next gen ?
I do not want to give up. But I also can not afford a smaller profit than energy consumption. $0,17

You know, nVidia speed is not dropping after every epoch, which leads me to think AMD might be able to fix that on driver level.

i hope so  it will come soon because the profit $1 on card is not so scary for me just the lower hashrate make me sick

just mine a different coin, it is just the dag file of eth that is causing the lower hashrate, so other coins won't have a drop

I do agree that the entire crypto world is very susceptible to pumps and dumps.
But in my humble opinion, that is a only a symptom of the low market value of the entire crypto market now - it is simply too cheap not to manipulate.
If you have been following the markets for that long, then I think you'll have noticed that the volatility of cryptos, while still insane when compared to high cap stocks, is far lower than it used to be ...

That makes it both extremely interesting and extremely risky to "invest" in. It is in fact more of a gamble than anything at this point to put any money anywhere near anything that has to do with crypto.

What makes me so bullish about the future value of BTC (or other cryptos), is that we have only begun scratching the surface of what the tech could be used for - from supplying underbanked masses with a means to store funds electronically, through (more useful nowadays) being used as a means to move around obscene amounts of money without requiring banks... If you wanted to move millions of dollars from one country to the next a few years ago, you'd have to stash your luggage with cash and hope that customs won't take a peek ... now it could be stored in a memorized private key, in the form of a currency that is liquid enough to convert to insane amounts of fiat in no time flat in most places in the world.

As to the possibility of "losing" money vs fiat value in BTC, due to volatility, I actually think the risk is manageable over short periods of time.
Ask Canadians how much buying power they lost over the last two years because of the insane decline of the Canadian dollar, or many Europeans got screwed because they pulled out loans in Swiss francs ... or how much was lost by people holding British pounds in the last year!

I do get that BTC is a very fringe-ey tech, but its uses and potential are very, very real.
Can it tank and become worthless? Sure.
But I just don't see that happening.
So bag holding is the way to go. And not even for a year - hold it until that shit can secure your retirement, or busts entirely.
That's my game. And if I lose everything I've ever put into it? Bah, it's money I never had anyways ;)

Agree with all you said.

Why did you, after five years, fall into a trap?

+1

Bitcoin is a solid holding, it is finally getting a scaling improvement.  Long term it will be BIG, I mean 10 years down the line 2 or 3 btc will fund your retirement.  Some other coins are good to be in as well, just any solid crypto portfolio.

Now look at Berkshire Hathaway

Opened in 1991 with about 1.6 million shares and market cap of ~11 billion for a stock price of $7100
Lets say you didn't buy in until 1995 4 year later which put it around btc current cap of ~30 billion @ $20'000 a share and you buy a single share.
Tons of volatility from 1995 to 2017 with big declines where lots of people bailed, but you hold.

Your $20'000 invest is worth $251'000 and growing.
That means the market cap doubled 13.7 times
You made $230'000

Now How many times can bitcoin or other solid coins double in price over ~10-20 years?
It did this year, how about next year and future halvings?

Exponential growth is some crazy shit.

----------

Edit I forgot about inflation.

The starting $20'000 would only be $32,500 by todays numbers.

mined an uncle on eth pool today so got 5 eth plus 3.7 its quite profitable still if you get lucky solo mining, I usuall get an uncle a week , just gotta stick with it

EXACTLY!  Could not agree more...

yup thats what I say either go all the way or just get out, every investment ive missed : tesla when it was 25, facebook at $30, eth on the ico , Always lost out becuase I was risk averse and just wanted to test the waters.

the money i refused to invest in those assets is gone or stuck in worthless 4 percent grwoth 401ks or farmed out to the tax man.

to make any real money or suceed in general u usually have to take risks , just look at the risk reward equation imo  

Interestingly, I haven't calculated the returns on my Canadian investments vis à vis foreign currencies.
But suppose I had invested the same amount in Canadian GIC's 5 years ago as I did in my old mining equipment, corrected for current value against the USD, then even if I include the tax breaks offered by our govt for retirement funds (to be taxed upon withdrawal, of course), then I'd still be eons behind what I have made on cryptos. Shit, my investments made way more than that, and they still fell 30% vs the USD in the last two years 😪
In a funny way, even after years of neglect, crypto has protected me from forex fluctuations.
Hell, if BTC went down to 500 USD I'd still be in my money

whats your mh/s? congrats!

All AMD GPUs sold out; almost all Nvidia GPUs sold out: and out comes the FUD.

If you want out; I'm sure your GPUs will sell quickly on the marketplace.

If you are new to crypto; you might find it strange that those who post about the impending doom: will be the first to spam you with pms about buying your GPUs.  ;)

only 4000 mhs but the uncle rate is like 15 percent solo mining on ethpool
so odds are in your favor

I think Vega won't be down that easy. I mean they will struggle but we should be waiting for more time. In anyway we have installed it so better keep them running and try to decrease the cost of may be electricity by means of implementing green energy techniques. This is important because the rate of rx is going to be down to cents per day (worst situations) so we must be able to over our costs with that rate and stay profitable. Here profitable would would means even getting cents per day after the expenses.! I know sounds too vague but it is worth doing that for the time being. We can always get lucky after a year or two when the rate of hashing might change, new tech might come to solve the difficulty problems. Always have positive mining no matter what. :-)

I think a LOT of people will think like this. My plan is just to diversify over the coming months through either:

a) Mine what is most profitable on the day, exchange for other coins. or:
b) Mine what might not be the most profitable on other days just to build up actual number of coins if it's seems like less people mining it that day. or:
c) Some days will just run NiceHash and get paid out in Bitcoin and hold it long term rather than cash out.


Might simply be that option a) above makes the most sense, but I'm definitely not planning to convert any of my holdings to fiat for some time to come.

I think you hit the nail on the head.. unless mining becomes extremely unprofitable or your electricity is high.. then there is:

D) pack it up and sell the equipment

Haha, I will be doing a combine of A, B, and C over the next coming months. Right now I am doing C until I get my rig situated in my new house and have a weekend free of painting to set up for A and B

I was kind of hoping for ETH values to stay depressed for a while.  The difficulty kind of slowed the steep angle upward march for a couple of days.  With the big jump in the ETH price today I am sure that steep angle will resume.  Workers/Rigs on Ethermine.org was hanging around 123k/124k and around 12.2 T/H for the last few days.  It jumped up in the past few hours to 12.7 T/H and 126k workers.  Difficulty is on the move.  Difficulty is going to be measured in Pentahashes shortly.