Bitcoin Forum

Let's assume for a moment that a chain split happens for real in the next few weeks (after all, this is what Jihan promised us himself), and the fork which he creates quickly wins. Bitmain seems to be controlling around 70% of all miners produced and shipped worldwide, therefore if Jihan has been saving up hashing power all these months, he could easily take down all competing blockchains by marching his army of ruthless miners over the competition, an army that he was secretly gathering all this time

http://s013.radikal.ru/i323/1707/90/2cca7c715cf7.jpg

So, will you follow the scent of money?

If the scenario you describe happens, the longest chain will be the one you refer to as "Jihan fork"

Yes, I will. When money talks, bullshit walks!  ;D ;D

But of course!! I will quickly use Jihancoin to make a transaction to an exchange where they buy my coins for fiat money.

Wait, that counts as "using", doesn't it?

i don't understand what "Jihancoin" is! and your post didn't help me either.

in case by "Jihancoin" your mean what bitmain pointed out in their blog post, saying they will solo mine privately for some time (3 days if i recall correctly) and they release the chain, then it is stupid. it is not even worth talking about. that is not even a coin let alone call it bitcoin.

but in case you are talking about anything other than that blog post my answer may be different.

JihainCoin, or any other altcoin derived from an hypothetical Bitcoin hardfork, are dead on arrival. Nobody with money worth mentioning is going to hold their wealth on the non-original blockchain. The only way a hardfork would work is if there was 100% consensus and clearly there isn't. From a technical perspective the segwit2x is the dumbest thing since the rest of takeover attempts (xt, classic, buggy unlimited and now this)

If that happens I would continue to use the same old genuine bitcoin chain that I used to use and not Jihancoin. Better yet I might try to move into other altcoins if worst case scenario of bitcoin being devalued a lot near to zero happens because of Jihancoin. For now I hope that it won't happen and I hope your assumptions is wrong.

No, or there goes our chance to fix money.

If there is split at Aug 1, I wont be using Luke-jr coin though.

Sure. I will sell coins from both chains if possible. I guess that everybody will do that if there will be exchanges giving the chance for this.
But I don't expect an ETH/ETC scenario. People will rally under the flag of one coin: the one that will be accepted by most exchanges. We talk here about way bigger amounts than ETH/ETC was.

But this is certainly not all

While I completely agree that Jihancoin wouldn't be able to get much attention on its own, but he could still force people into using his coin by making the genuine Bitcoin completely unusable. That's what I referred to in my post by mentioning an army of ruthless and merciless Jihad miners (now patiently waiting for their hour). Basically, he could pose an ultimatum (via his actions) making an offer which most people won't be able to decline. Since otherwise they will lose their "genuine" bitcoins (i.e. their value would hit the floor). If he earned enough already (which seems to be the case), it may be no more than a game of thrones to him


I also hope for that but we should consider all the likely outcomes of the present showdown

I will surely not using Jihancoin for sure. For me it's Bitcoin and some etablished crypto and nothing else

"Most people" are irrelevant. The only people with real skin in the game are the original cryptopunk whales whose are holding millions worth of BTC, not USD, no other fiat, and no altcoin, but BTC. All these companies are irrelevant because they aren't even holding BTC, they always convert to USD.

The big cryptopunk whales will crush Jihan Wu's delusions of grandeur soon.

In OP's hypothetical situation, this new chain wins and is the longest. Now the question is, would you risk it all on a losing chain? Would like to see your coins on the older chain being unaccepted by merchants?

It's like asking if you'd keep being on the fork that perceived as "wrong" in both (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin#The_fork_of_March_2013) of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin#Creation) cases.

Anyways, this is counter productive talk. Speaking in worst case scenarios is what we don't need at the moment. But it is indeed for for thought...

Bitcoin has its roots strongly held and believed on decentralization, disrupting the network, a coup, is just the beginning of a centralized bitcoin network, and then they blame the LN/side solutions that are an optional choice. A decentralized network has to give the users a choice.

Most of the bitcoin users don't give a shit about what's happening to the network, they are capable enough to grasp the implications, but money clouds their vision, short term profit, long term a dead coin.

Minority is enough to start with a change, underdogs. Segwit activated, good, HF, Jihan is gonna realize he is dreaming a dreamer's dream.

What are you smoking?

The only "cryptopunk" out there who didn't spend his bitcoins is likely Satoshi himself. Apart from that, how do you know that Jihan and his minions are not the ones actually holding millions of bitcoins? After all, it were them who have been mining coins all these years. I see the price sticking to the 2,500 dollar mark like glued while people are leaving Bitcoin en masse (the reasons for thinking so I explained elsewhere). It may well be the same dudes who prop up the prices buying all these bitcoins running for fiat. They don't cause panic buys, they just buy enough to keep the illusion of stable prices until the time comes and they render the final blow

Which version of Bitcoin will be accepted as a payment method by merchants and businesses though? I don't think this will be the JihanCoin but I might be wrong. Bitcoin is on the brink of exiting the speculation phase and entering the opportunity to become a 'real' currency. If JihanCoin version is not warmly accepted it will just fizzle out and die very fast. I don't think Jihan can pose any real threat to anyone to be honest. Let's just wait and see  ;)

Any coin with Jihan in control are doomed to failure. This guy has shown that a little bit of power {hashing power} will go to his head. He gets power

drunk and then force his will down on other people. {Benevolent dictator style} As a matter of fact, any coin with a centralized authority are doomed to

fail. { Centralized authority can be targeted, corrupted and influenced by governments. }  >:(

And what do we need then?

Keep silence and hope that Jihan somehow forgets about his threats? What is it, a sort of Stockholm Syndrome? If you want to say that such talks could provoke panic, then what's the deal? If this is bullshit, then a panic will turn out to be a good opportunity to buy coins cheap. If such talks have some substance after all (read Jihancoin is already in the plans), then selling bitcoins right now will later prove to be the wisest decision possible, given the circumstances. So what is your point really?

No of course I would not use his chain. I would dump my stash of Jihancoins and that's it.
If he could destroy or harm legitimate Bitcoin that much so it wouldn't have any serious amount of users and monetary value anymore I would probably leave the crypto space as it would be a failed experimnet imo. "Decentralized Blockchains with governance models", premined, mutability etc. will not give us any freedom and sovereignty we were hoping for to get with Bitcoin.

Jihan is supporting Segwit? So ''his'' coin would have segwit? And other blockchain wouldn't have it?

Wouldn't he destroy himself too if he would control more then 51% of hashpower? Defenitely it wouldn't work on a long term.
We have tons of other cryptos, which we would choose over ''centralized'' currency.

I will go where the money takes me. Going after profits is the same thing as following the wishes of the community. The more people invest the higher the price of a given instrument. The only way to loose money is to miscalculate the wishes of the community and invest in a bad cryptocurrency.
I don't care for drama. The community will choose the best option, the rest doesn't matter.

I don't think miners have that much control over the code. Devs can propose a POW change at worst. And you follow the brains no matter what

I am going to hold both Jihancoin and Bitcoin. I am ideologically opposed to Jihancoin, but the chances are that there is going to be a huge pump with that coin during the second half of 2017. In the long-term, I am not sure whether it will survive (the chances are that Bitcoin will win the war), but in the short-term and medium-term, Jihancoin has the potential to give good profits.

This is only one part of the equation

Or the other side of Bitcoin if you please. If it were only about Jihancoin to fall through and crack the bell, no one could care less (and I wouldn't start this topic). The main issue is that he might lose his mind completely (he likely already lost it anyway), and drug Bitcoin down with his "project". It should be obvious that if he sees that no one is going to use his coin, he will turn his rage against real Bitcoin. That will be a disaster

I thought jihan had 15% of the total hashrate, and even if other miners followed the lead, the chain split could lead to big financial losses, especially for holders.
If rationality takes place, I don't think they would go that far, since it would lead to loss of confidence.

If JihanCoin will make me money in the long run and he can convince me that it would remain decentralized, then sure, I would use it.

As it stands right now, I am not yet convinced.

Most people don't give a fuck about decentralization

Bitcoin is already centralized beyond any hope as any PoW coin will eventually be (provided it has any value, of course), and how many people stopped using it just because of this? They are going to stay with Bitcoin "no matter what" (as the poll suggests), but they scarcely understand that this genuine Bitcoin is not a lot better than the Bitcoin wannabe Jihancoin. All they care for are either sheer profits ("buy low, sell high") or future financial power which, as some of them strongly believe, Bitcoin would give them when it becomes the next American dollar

I voted to get OUT of cryptos.  If Jihan coin causes any issues, then I will just bail, and won't come back until I see some adults running a good crypto.

These guys looking to (or even hinting at) forking BTC deserve a spanking (or kick in the ass).  Just IMO as a guy with "skin in the game" but otherwise do not know enough programming to really KNOW anything.  OK, but we are Legion.

Nope, I will not use it, I'm not interested. I don't see that much potential and that it could become something serious. Generaly, I'm not much interested in altcoins, they are good for trading but otherwise they don't have much use in real life. And now are already too much altcoins at the market, all hoping they will be like Bitcoin one day.

As someone who has mined since 2011 and currently still have around 200 TH/s worth of equipment I disagree than PoW mining is more centralized now than it was in 2011 or 2012. I don't know if you remember DeepBit or gighash.io, two "centralized" pools that at different points in time reached approximately 50% of the global hash rate. They are now history. JihanPool is not immune from that.

I heard about ghash.io and its alleged grabbing of more than 50% of Bitcoin hash power

Right now we see (https://blockchain.info/pools) about half a dozen major pools that have over 50% of the global hash rate (Antpool being the biggest at that with almost 20% of hash rate). We don't know if these are real pools or in fact huge mining farms with some random miners joining them. We don't know how really independent they are and whether they are not controlled by the same group of people. But this is irrelevant since just 5-6 pools controlling over 50% of hash rate cannot possibly be considered as proper decentralization by any metric. What we see is properly called an oligopoly or cartel, in this case, mining cartel

I don't think that users care what chain is the longest, people (regular users, traders, investors, business operators) only look for developer group, and right now overwhelming majority of bitcoin community supports core. So everything that any other parts will create will be treated as an altcoin. Maybe there will be some very ugly "mining war" against Bitcoin, but it will survive, because support of users is what truly matters.

I don't see how Jihancoin could be taken seriously by the rest of the scene.

If it was then I'd get rid of my bitcoins. I'd maybe keep a hand in with certain alts. It would be a signal of BTC's failure for me.

I am not sure what will happen with bitcoin ,i am here to see the best to happen with bitcoin as i am here in this platform because some genius made these things possible and i want to see the developments in the future too,since the man behind the technology is unknown i really wish he would come forward and give some guidelines ,if Jihan comes with a better solution is there any problem follow him,i just want the best technical upgrade and that is the only thing i am waiting for.

Maybe spend a bit time researching what pools are private and what are public. Then you could write something of value, not just dumb speculations.

I don't think anyone of us would compromise on anonymity and decentralization. These, among others, are the two very prominent and unique properties bitcoin has and if they are detached from and lacking in any cryptocurrency or altcoins or even bitcoin then I don't think it will be acceptable to anyone but still it would be too early to commit anything. Let's hope for the best.

It looks like I'm in the majority. Fuck Jihan!
Is there really a chance for him to make it? I'd say no.

That's right. OP is speculating on what would happen if he had some hashpower stacked up, like a hidden army, or made some agreements with miners that are using his hardware around the world. A backdoor allowing him to control all miners produced by his company would be a funny surprise. ;D

If that happens I will consider bitcoin to have died and will sell all my holdings and move to litecoin, but it will not be long before something like this happens in litecoin and then they try to take over that network as well, if it becomes a game of the cat and the mouse in which I will have to move between blockchains to avoid this process then it s possible I will leave crypto.

all  I am going to say is that all this drama and bullshit is just going to kill bitcoin. at some point it no longer will matter if chain splits or not. the merchants and all the rest will simply move to a less dramatic altcoin. why do you think all this time there has been a lot of pump, a lot of advertising the altcoins, .... it is because they all saw "an opening" that we created for them.

Jihan coin? Grow up. You've been tricked. Bitcoin ABC will be the genuine Bitcoin soon as it follows Satoshis vision unlike toxic BScore.

If JihanCoin garners the majority approval of Chinese Bitcoiners, yes, I will use JihanCoin, and I imagine it will work out splendidly. This Chinese FUD is unwarranted and biased. I imagine if the majority hashpower were in the USA, noone would be fearing centralization.

However, it will not work better for Jihan himself or for Bitcoin as a whole, so I pretty much wish that Bitcoin doesn't lose Jihan's Hashpower.

Since I do not like the fundamental principal behind UASF coercive deployment, leaving Jihan little choice in my view, I would also have a hard time supporting the alternative chain on philosophical grounds.

So yes. I will use Jihancoin.

I do not expect that we will come to that though.

Don't you all just luurve push polls, with leading language designed to elicit a favored outcome?

No matter what, people will used the most profitable and most efficient coin according to them, if the jihancoin provides more advantage and the value is better then of course people will choose that coin, but if this incident happened I believe the price will fall down sharply and people will choose alt coin to used rather than jihancoin

Anyway, I always use bitcoin, because it is trusted for me and my friend  ;D

some do, with the new bitmain shitcoin chain you will have 100% centralization, which is not what bitcoin have right now, we are not that centralized at the moment

they also know that is a lot better, otherwise they would buy any shitcoin now and forgets about bitcoin altogether, which will never be the case

we dont really have a choice now do we

In fact, Bitcoin is not very different in this respect

With Jihancoin we would have an outright mining monopoly, right now we have a mining cartel which works pretty much in the same way, thus it is essentially six of one and half a dozen of the other. And don't forget that Bitmain also ships around 70% of all state of the art miners these days. So if those people you talk about really existed and they did actually care for decentralization, they should have left Bitcoin long ago in favor of some properly decentralized PoS coin or just good old gold since it is decentralized by nature itself


You may want to explain what you wanted to say

"Jihancoin", "continue using Bitcoin", "Jihan's fork", ...

If what you call "Jihancoin" amasses the economic majority, those continuing to use what you call "Jihancoin" will "continue using Bitcoin".

And so what?

I still don't get your point. How else, in your opinion, should I have dubbed Jihancoin? Just in case, I put the options in the order which as I thought would reflect the number of votes (personally, I voted for altcoins). I've been right about the top two but somehow I expected that more people would choose to call it a day and leave (if Jihancoin took over), but people seem not to be that meticulous and choosy about Bitcoin ideals and values (as many think or want to think). Or should I rather say delusions and falsities now?

BitmainCoin or JihainCoin is the one that is premined by Bitmain as they have said on their blog (which btw has comments disabled because they woudl get shit on)
Nobody would use it on their right mind.

And JarzikCoin, or frankensegwitcoin, also known as segwit2x fork, has been having problems since day1. In the past hours the testnet has forked due a problem with mined blocks, just read the comments on the btc1 github issues section.

There is no single hardfork proposal worth anyone's time or money. Exchanges that risk it may face massive loses and they will be liable for these loses. On the other hand miners are free to not run segwit2x without no legal consequences because NYC is a joke. Let's see if they are stupid to go through with the hardfork.

A few people would refuse to invest in a highly profitable asset, citing ethical and moral reasons. However, I am not one of them. I don't care much, if Jihancoin can give me good returns. I want to be rich. I am tired of working 12-hours a day.

"Satoshis vision" would be 100% accurate and less immature.

We are already there

Now we have a mining cartel which successfully boosted transaction fees "to the moon", then we would have Jihan likely doing essentially the same, so what's the difference? With Jihancoin, at least it would be meaningless to flood the network with spam transactions (well, this is what I think). In any case, with or without Jihan, I don't think that Bitcoin right now is the best option out there if you aim at earning profits via trading or elsewise (which is what most people seem to be looking for anyway)


Yeah, maybe you are right. But it is not my invention. As they say, don't shoot the messenger