Bitcoin Forum

https://whattomine.com/coins

Before market crash to 60Billion from the original 100Billion

Mining ETH, ETC and some other coins estimation in Whattomine is ranging from $3-4 per 1060 with $0.15 kwh

Right now, we are back to 90Billion market, but the profitablility is ranging from $0.9-1 per 1060 with $0.15 kwh


What exactly happen?

Pre market Dump btc price peaked at $3000

Post market Dump btc price is back to $2700

Even ETH is ranging at around 3xx before Crash, 2xx after Crash. Technically it should be around $2-3 for each 1060 at the current state of price but $1+- is too low.

Any idea?

Its because of difficulty mate! :)

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-difficulty.html

 Combination actually, the diff has been climbing a LOT on any profitable coin since the big price jumps (except for Bitcoin) started up around 3 months back, COUPLED TO the price drop almost all altcoins have suffered through in July.


 The profitability bubble hasn't collapsed entirely, but it's getting there - it just took TIME for folks to buy up enough new hardware (and on Scrypt and X11 they STILL haven't gotten there due to a lack of hardware AVAILABLE) to get the hashrate to climb as much as pricing did.

Hello mate!
I think this decrease of mining profitability is due to people and investors being less confident in crypocurrencies and purchasing less hasing power because of it.
And we are seing a lot of changes in the cryptocurrency market, such as the probable hardfork of the bitcoin. So all these things can influence the mining profitability :/

It has already been said, network difficulty was and still is increasing. In essence, the higher the difficulty the lower your reward will be given the same hash-rate.

Difficulty was on a steady increase even before the price took off, it just wasn't as steep of a curve. But once the price of Ethereum really got going, everyone and their mother began buying graphics cards and became miner, thus the skyrocketing difficulty levels.

So getting back to your question, even if the price of Ethereum returns to the $400 level the mining profitability will still be quite a bit lower than it was before as the mining difficulty has increase so much in the meantime.

Unfortunately, price corrects a lot faster than difficulty does so you can expect to see diminishing mining profitability for quite some time. In fact, you can look around and see plenty of threads of people continuing to build new miners seemingly unaware of this fact, so the hope for quick mining profits returning will be just that, a hope for the next several months to years.

And ETH price never recovers

Hundreds of thousands of views of videos all over Youtube, guys bragging about "Easy Money"!!! in them there hills. Of course difficulties will kill profits.

Thousands of us newbies have got us some M I N I N G FEVER, and it's on now baby. Bring it!
We don't care about no GPU and PSU's being waaay overpriced, we just need to buy something, from someone, TODAY!
Profits, Risk, Return on Investment, Sanity,,, what's that? Oh Okay, I'll look at those things tomorrow, right now i got to get me some rigs rocking, that's what talking bout.

The word "Boondoggle" keeps poping in my head lately for some reason.
noun,  work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value.
verb  waste money or time on unnecessary or questionable projects.

Okay, maybe not that bad, but at times i wonder.  :D

"well, no one told me about difficulty when I was buying my overpriced GPU's"   :o ;D

 The phrase "lack of due diligence" keeps popping up in mine.

Oh noooooooooooo, I guess we will see many threads like this one asking, "hey there is something wrong, last time i checked i'm sure I was supposed to earn $5.80 per day forever and ever and now i see the pool is stealing my money, i'm earning only $0.30 per day, and now i see the electricity bill and I'm in debt" hehe

"Currently, block time is averaging 14 seconds, but for the last year, it has been inching up to 15 seconds. And, according to calculations made by Buterin three months ago, that number will double to 30 seconds by mid-August of this year."

You trolls did not see anything yet, difficulty is about to triple in few weeks hehe

Really surprised that a "Hero Member" had no idea what difficulty was...

It has made me feel a lot better about being a newbie. Whatever that means. The 1st August thing has not completely past either.

This what I said before BTC has to be around $8000 now with current difficulty and altcoin and ZEC/ETH needs be maintain the peak value like $400/coin.  You better get more people to use it if you want to go back to the old earnings.   We need more users and soon!!!  lol

If you do mining then bring more people to use it.   

The profit went down a LOT. I started mid June and a week after profit was like half than when I started haha.
But, I made 40% ROI in 1 month, so I'm not complaining. I'm also mining coins that have a chance to go up in price and if they do, $10 a day now might be $20 a day in a few months.

At the moment, the ROI for the 580 is about 10 months.

A big Ethereum hack occurred some days ago keeping Ethereum prices low.
Also the Ethereum cow is being milked to death, its only producing water now :D

I cant believe it, I checked twice... so many people investing in something that they dont even know what is going on, so many things on ethereum is happening right now, ice age, block time, difficult rise, proof of stake, price of gpus, new gpus, people who are moving from  coin to coin, price of coins  itd. itd.

i think not only about difficult, but also about the value, that was dumped on all altcoin, because of bitcoin chain split or hard fork, diff is indeed higher, because now even kids and their mother are mining, but the investors dumped a lot of money to take profit

It seems quite strange. The bitcoin is in trouble, all the coins drop with it.

Thats because everyone wants to mine and less want to buy so difficulty increasing and prices down , i think for better mining results ppl should trade on mining difficulty

I believe, once bitcoin issues resolves, market becomes more stable and up ^^^.

 The drop in profitability over the last month or so on almost all altcoins has been a LOT more about the rise in difficulty, though the drop in price has also had a noticeable negative effect.
 Litecoin is the main exception, as it's price in $ terms has been pretty close to constant within a 10-15% range during that timeframe - so the profitability drop THERE has been all about the additional batches of L3+ and A4 miners getting added to the network hashrate.

You don't have a fucking clue how pow works, do you?

 Do you see the quotes? I hope you have eyes and can see the quotes. Go and enlighten the guy who created Ethrereum you troll.

Mid August is just 20 days away. Will the block time that high?

I have been saying this for quite a while, you trolls never pay any attention, you trolls buy for example rx 570 that costs $200 for $700 and think you will get the roi in 2 months, you trolls have no idea about anything. Your 2 months have become 1 and half year already and soon will become 3 years hehe also most gpus dont last that much, so the warranty will end before or probably other component will break down and that is it, in the end you trolls will be in debt, crying and will likely commit suicide. If you want to mine then think about the worse possible outcome first. I have seen this in 2014 where 99% of trolls quit mining, huge debts and many committed suicide because was the easy way to stop the pain.

Well its said that in mid or late August block time will be about 30secs, in October about 45secs,

It is bad for miners, but the transaction is the same.

Everyone and their Grandmother is mining in Asia with GPUs. And you wanna know the crazy part? They're OK with 1 year ROI! I'm not even joking. I had a friend ask me about GPU mining and I told him expect ROI in 6 month + and he went out and bout 200 P106-100.

So hey, I guess Darwinism at its best. If people are willing to work for little to no pay then why the hell not?

If you think the price of the coin will rise, it is OK with one year ROI.

Adversely if you think the coin will fall, you are not OK with ROI.

Ahh, but here you have almost stumbled upon the most obvious question. If you think the coin will rise, why not just buy the coin?

I really do not see the point in this "I am ok with a 12 or even 18 month ROI period" mentality when investing so much into mining hardware, especially since everything is so overpriced. As I have said many times, in all cases you are pinning your hopes of profits on one simple fact, that the coin(s) you plan to mine will continue to increase in value. This means market prices must continue keeping up with or exceeding mining supply (which can basically be equated with the network hashrate and difficulty), thus making mining profitable.

So again, if your belief is that the coin(s) you are interested in mining are going to continue to go up in value, after all that is why you are willing to invest $1,000's of dollars in hardware that might in maybe 1 year break even, why not instead invest $1,000's directly into the coin(s) and in 1 year be in profit, not just at break even?

There are certain times in the crypto-lifecylce where mining makes sense and you can often net average your coins for far less than you could by purchasing them outright. However, for most current coins that ship has long sailed and only those with hardware already paid for, or who have super low or free electricity would be better off at this point buying hardware versus just buying the coin outright.

I had the same dilema, invest in coin or buy GPUs. I decided to buy gpus cos after i pay for them i can still mine if not eth then other coin. If i just invest i can only wait for coin to go up, sell and then what? wait for coin to go down buy again wait to go up... do some day trading.... to me its more like a gamble then steady income... with my few rigs (20gpus) i can get ROI this year if eth goes a bit higher. i target to sell at 500$.

This post should be sticky.

All fantastic points. I think a lot of it is looked at like "free money", even though obviously you do need to buy equipment, spend time setting up hardware and software, and spend money on electricity. It's very tempting from a psychological level - as opposed to just buying outright, where you are making a very concerted and quantifiable bet on a crypto.

But obviously I'm not expert in all that, just sort of a guess as to why so many flock to mining. It's also fun, sort of an interesting science experiment.

From my POV why would someone spend $200k for a property only to lease it out at $900 or $1000 a month rent(crossing fingers nothing breaks AND crossing fingers tenant doesn't stick you) vs spending $30k on mining hardware (which BTW is deductible along with the electricity) to make a steady $3k-4k a month mining? I chose the latter. My only regret is that I didn't spent $200k on mining.

There are for sure arguments for both sides. In a lot of industries a 6 or even 12 month ROI is fantastic. But there are risks in mining. If it was a steady 10% return on your initial investment in perpetuity then, duh, choose that. But you have to worry about hardware breaking, hardware becoming antiquated, mining of profitable coins being optimized, or even the coin(s) that you store your profits in tanking.

It's a very complicated equation.

Mining is for losers cause most of you noobs sell your coins too low hehe, I myself love when a coin is crashing you trolls help them to crash even further and then I have to come in and buy your cheap coins hehe, I wait till the enxt 100% pump and then take my profits, I always win hehe, so my returns as a trader are many thousands times greater then you losers miners hehe

Buying a $400 gpu to mine eth vs $80 5x short sell, who wins?

GPU mining is the lowest risk entry point because you always have a price on physical equipment. This is especially important to newcomes due to unease / fear of a new (to them) technology - you can't have your cards stolen / deleted / lost etc.

Yes, exactly. Now this is the post that should be sticky.
Keywords are: lowest risk

If the ETH price drops 60% from here, mining will not be profitable for most people. That is risky.

It will be only in case if eth drop with all other coins.

The difficulty has increased tremendously.  Sometimes it shot and sometimes it's cold.  Best to just keep mining since it's definitely still profitable.  Plus you never know, the .007 eth your 1060 mines today could be worth 5 bones by this time next year!

From a miner point of view eth dropping 60% would have about the same effect as eth going 50% pos. Yep, not possible but you get the idea.

Half of the current eth nethash looking for a new home, what could it possibly be? xmr, etc and zec. Everyone knows what that would mean.

I think that is the reason why the difficulty of ZEC or XMR is so high.

With the difficulty rising and many new miner joining , mining profitability is really not so high now. But if can cover the electricity cost and still be able to profit a little then I think it is still worth it.

When my friend invite me to join mining, they already said ROI is around 1 year, just the starting profit too high and make us lost our patient.

Starting to mine right now is definitely not worth it. Profitability has greatly decreased! I hope I can pay off at least one year. Although I do not even know what will happen in 2 months ...

This time low profitability is not related with 2016 end-2017 start time.

At that time it was about low price but now it is about very high difficulty.

For sure it is not recommendable to start mining nowadays.

Only game changing action for mining would be a very new coin like ETH/ ZCASH to emerge and profitable mining.

Your better of just buying some coins on the market with that money your willing to spend on a rig.

Majority of mining was driven by ETH which price make substantial growth this year, other alts were following this path. Now the difficulty has raised too much for mining to be profitable in short term.
Currently it is not worth investing in mining equipment as roi time is more than a year.

Only thinking about ETH, buying coins instead of mining rigs is right.
But considering the other PoW coins after ETH, mining still has potentials.
The huge wave of PoW to PoS is making it very complicated.

At the moment, the ROI is too long. It is better to buy the coins directly.

It is quite possible that some whales will pump the altcoin so it will be profitable to mine again.

At this moment mining ETH is still profitable. The ROI on the other hand is way to high. I do not mine to make a load of money but pure supporting the community. If i wanted to make the load of money in a short peroid of time i would just buy crypto on a exchange. Everyone has a other motive to be in the crypto world. Making a lot of money in a short peroid of time if really hard and many will fail.

It depends on your cards. If it is nVidia 1080, it is better to mine ZEC.

I too went back and forth on ROI with simply investing in coin versus investing in mining.  Yes, I'm going to have a 9 month payback on my rig, but I'll still have the physical hardware that isn't ASIC.

I *might* lose my coins
The coins *might* become worthless
The cost of electricity *might* go way up

I obviously am betting that won't be the case but it's all possible.  I've been watching Ebay and Amazon for used equipment and they're all selling at 80% of new cost.  Hell you can see that on a car the moment you drive it off the lot.  The equipment I chose for the mining rig can be re-sold to people who want to use it for it's original intended purpose such as rendering or gaming and I don't think that's going to go away anytime soon.  Well I hope not anyway or life won't nearly be as fun  ;D

Yes indeed, i wish i had bought nVidia but running all AMD now.

You can use your nVidia for ETH or ETC.