Bitcoin Forum

[EDIT]

Issues raised were resolved and scam accusation thread archived and flagged for deletion.

First of all, thank you cryptodevil for your investigation, it is good to see BTCT community active to protect its members.

They have been introduced to me on skype, maxime the CEO clearly told me he wants to take advantage of the ethereum hype as i told them that their decision is a no sence. Then they took my ideas to hide their scam, i though they will use stratis or elements or even create their own blockchain, sorry for that.

This project sounds non logical, i don't imagine guys who args getting millions a month to integrate a token on their platform. That means they will have to stop using FIATS on their platform, and use their token instead, or its value will be low. Risking their users for a token ? it doesn't seems logical.

Needless to talk about the frequentation of the platform, it is indeed sinking, they advertise 18 Million users while only 2 millions are active (over a month). This project is about creating a smart contract, getting money, selling the platform and leaving it.

Instead of lying about the team members, they could have said, the tokens will go to the Enjin Team, no need to lie about that.

As a result, they want to keep coins to play pump and dump. Saying they will distribute tokens to their partners (big companies as they said) is stupid, are they bounty hunters ? are they serious about that ?

It is like offering tokens to trusted members of bitcointalk to promote a project, most of the time they refuse.


I let you read my two other posts, for fun and memmory :





These are from the original thread, the one closed. These posts are funny, but they are more to provide a better vision on the project.

Hi guys, CTO of Enjin Coin here. We are being open and thoughtful about our coin and I welcome productive criticism and feedback. You guys seem to care about the direction of the project, based on 30 days of constant posting on our threads. But we draw the line when there is clear trolling and toxic behavior.

I would like to explain why NEMGUN is upset:

I spoke to him over a couple of days on video chat, thinking NVO might help us do our crowdsale. After a few interactions, we noticed some disturbing behavior from him and decided it was best not to work with this person. I understand rejection is upsetting, and that NVO wanted to use Enjin Coin as an example for their own project, but it is difficult to understand NEMGUN's aggression.

Here is part of what scared our entire team off from working with him:

https://i.imgur.com/epLw9p3.png

https://i.imgur.com/cNMCj5z.png

His behavior on Skype video was rude, constant cursing at us while trying to force the project in his own direction. By chance, I was passing through the city which Ton (NVO founder) lives and I was planning to have an in-person meeting with him, but after our team did some background checks on NEMGUN we decided it was best to focus our resources elsewhere.

I understand that his feelings were perhaps hurt, however his present behaviour leaves us confident we made the correct choice.

Now that this has been cleared up...

I am perfectly clear about the direction and goals of our project. If you present clear, distilled arguments about why you believe this will fail, I'll be happy to respond. We are open minded and honestly want to build Enjin Coin to be a practical decentralized asset platform for gamers.

I am currently designing the technical specifications for all our smart contracts and Platform API. We have a team of experienced blockchain developers and advisors working with us, who will help guide all concepts and audit all contracts.

I'm 100% open to discuss logical, coherent arguments. If this devolves into trolling, then I'll remove myself from the thread. Until then, let's discuss.

cryptodevil,

One of your accusations is about us faking the existence of our team members. We are happy to prove everybody actually exists... Perhaps a Google Hangout with the entire team available to answer any questions?

Glad to see replies from you guys, because i want to see the situation settle as quickly as possible.
From eyes of a 3rd party, this thread seems kind of sketchy (I know you understand).
But my main question was, would it be possible for example post the video on youtube or something, so it could be kind of Q&A at same time which you may use for promotion as well by showing how professional your team is  8)

All you did was ad hominem. You explained nothing, the same way you've failed to explain the concerns raised by OP.  That coupled with everything that has happened (massive censorship for example) makes this project highly shady.

Sketchy? You are an enjin shill and shouldn't comment on this as you can't control your own bias.

I think we would all appreciate that.

But more importantly, I wouldn't support a campaign if I didn't believe in the project. So, please address the bolded:


Please be open and honest regarding claims about the userbase. And keep the conversation open: please do not delete posts that reflect negatively on Enjin. The platform and developer team has shown great potential. Don't sacrifice that.

So after painfully reading each user's long spiel (Do you guys really have to write whole page essays as responses?), there's three main points I've summed it down to.

1) Due to a gradual decrease in the size of your userbase in the last three years, it is tiny compared to what it used to be.

- I can't really say anything here, and I have not looked into it. Minecraft was still pretty big in 2014, though.

2) Deleting negative posts in Ann threads

- I admit, this is bad, and I can see why thulis would be a cause for concern. But now if he's answering questions here, I don't think this is a worry as long as proper communication is made, not just accusations and insults.

3) Having team members with very small names online, if any.

- Witek seems to have addressed the problem by offering to do a call IRL.

---

I'll pause the campaign if this gets out of hand or is drawn too far out of hand.

Watching closely. If this is not resolved positively in the next couple of days, I'll leave the signature campaign. I won't "shill" for a platform that doesn't deliver what they advertise.

Alright, let's discuss traffic. :)

In our announcement and whitepaper we have only advertised our current 2017 traffic. You can see it directly on Quantcast here: https://www.quantcast.com/p-e2f9QTuI7ynec and linked in our Whitepaper here: https://enjincoin.io/enjincoin_whitepaper.pdf

Here is why we’re currently very happy about our traffic ranking:

Quantcast shows us peaking in 2014 and traffic dropping afterward. We had a US traffic rank of 732 in 2014 and now we're at 991 in 2017 (The rank indicates the number of sites receiving more traffic than Enjin. Currently Quantcast measure us as being bigger than all websites in USA minus 990). We can speculate on a few possible reasons for this:

• Minecraft's peak was in 2014 and thus a large wave of our traffic followed its popularity (check Google Trends for "Minecraft"). The casual gamers may have moved off to mobile games or other trends, but the hardcore gamers remain and game oriented businesses remain.
• Many users have been switching to our Android and iOS Mobile app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.enjin.mobile&hl=en and https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/enjin-community-for-gamers/id1103331595?mt=8 for accessing Enjin and Enjin Community forums. We've neglected to track our app traffic in our Quantcast traffic statistics. We have opened a conversation with Quantcast now to see about tracking this.
• Our traffic follows game popularity and cycles, with Minecraft being the biggest video gaming phenomenon the world has seen in 2014. We haven't encountered an game yet even close to Minecraft's popularity, but we're continuing to look for new opportunities and branching into new games, with smaller traffic but passionate communities.
• We changed to HTTPS across tens of thousands of communities, here is the reply Brad (our network engineer) posted to you:

Our Traffic is growing since April, including our Mobile Apps traffic. Here are the latest stats, which we provided to you and can be checked on Quantcast:


We made all the above clear in the thread, but you kept insisting that we have no real traffic, that our staff are not real (we even invited you to meet us in person or on video chat), even after we clearly and repeatedly explained and provided answers.


The only posts we deleted are the dupes you kept posting, while ignoring our answers. But I hope this discussion clears everything up.

Now, we are planning features for a number of new games, and we're working on some huge updates to the CMS platform, this includes Enjin Coin, a new frontend, and more updates to our mobile apps. We're here for the long game - we love gaming, and we are trying to innovate by bringing a blockchain item platform to gamers.

You can't expect a 9 year long continual growth curve to be the only factor for success, there are cycles in traffic and markets, just like our current cycle of growth starting in April. We are still clearly ranked as one of the biggest networks online. Minecraft was huge temporary growth, there was no way to retain all those users, and now we're back to pre-Minecraft hype with a better product overall. Despite World of Warcraft being much smaller now that it was a few years ago, we've replaced all those users.

View our development / news blog here to confirm:
https://www.enjin.com/blog

Our communities in the many thousands are there and highly active. View them all here:
https://www.enjin.com/communities

Thanks for your reply, i will remove the untrust as soon as it is doable. I think that you just neglegted the fact that you should have the controle of the signature thread, as a bought account deleted messages you were supposed to manage.

---

I don't understand your behaviour, first don't talk about NVO, it is not related. Then stop quoting messages from skype, i could start that game too and it could be hard, like how related to scam ver you are, or when maxime said he wanted to take advantage of the ethereum hype whom i said it was a scammy behaviour.

As you have this kind of specialits, why do you go for a Token instead of a blockchain ? that's the question i answered since the very begining. A 12 years old geek could create a smart contract.

Instead of talking about me, you should answer the concerns risen by the OP directly, i am not supposed to be the cause of flaws/fails of your company.
Also, i didn't felt upset because of rejection, not even upset at all, i have been a stress for you because i clearly stated that your strategy was a scamish strategy.

Do you know how many persons consult me for their ICOs and projects ? Do you know how often a refuse because they use strategies like yours ?

Please answer the questions, don't use me as a scapegoat. I also have another question, i never heard of any blockchain developer who doesn't have a bitcointalk account, you could have used his account to post the announcement instead of buying one. I have a history, most of it is in the development section of the forum.

Talking about blockchain again, exchanging items on your platform with tokens and smart contracts. You can't say that you are a blockchain item platform, you are a token who doesn't realise that functions.

Regarding the traffic, i find it weired that you don't track your apps traffic, especially when you want to centralize a decentraliazed system.

Let's agree to the fact that all the scam accusations against you are fake and crypto devil is simply posting shit then why in earth do you delete his posts on your moderated thread. I get it you are running a ico and it might have a bad reputation for your company but don't you think if you prove him wrong people will trust you more. Deleting posts will just make matters worse.
And how about you and you team uploads a video on YouTube for everyone to notice instead of a private chat.

A few of our team have access to our main account, and they deleted duplicate posts. I've informed everyone that we should not delete further posts unless they are duplicates or completely offtopic.

Our original thread in mid July was un-moderated but in a few pages it got completely derailed by trolling. We were forced to make a moderated thread as we wanted to focus on actual discussion about Enjin Coin instead of personal attacks, scam accusations and FUD. You can see why we decided to re-do the thread as moderated but we'll tread lightly and steer all of this into a positive discussion.

I have addressed every concern Cryptodevil noted above.

You are confused by the point I was making. I stated our overall traffic is growing since April 2017 (as per Quantcast data) and our Client Base is growing and bigger than ever. By Client Base I mean paying and free clients (The Owners of communities, NOT the members of a community), there is a huge distinction between the two. Clients pay us for our plans here: https://www.enjin.com/pricing and can also join on the Free Plan. Clients are the users who make communities and virtual stores on Enjin. We don't control who joins the various communities. That's highly dependent on the client managing the community and the games currently peaking in that year (Minecraft made an insane peak in 2014 compared to all other games)

Each Client on Enjin creates a website / mobile community (free or paid) on our network, that community receives traffic as per Quantcast monitoring (The mobile stats are not reflected here!).

My point is this, we have more clients but they receive less web traffic. Each community is smaller in user count, therefore there is less traffic directed to that community. This is not indicative of Client or Community count on Enjin! Yes you can say they are correlated to some extent, but this is not the case when you have a catalyst like Minecraft (the biggest most hyped game) in 2014 pushing insane user traffic towards Client communities.

Why are Clients on Enjin showing less web traffic in 2017 than in 2014? here are the 3 main factors:

• The Enjin Mobile apps! Mobile is taking over web traffic everywhere. Here are our apps: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.enjin.mobile&hl=en and https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/enjin-community-for-gamers/id1103331595?mt=8
• Minecraft Hype - Minecraft traffic peaking in 2014 - Clients had a far larger user base of Minecraft players. Each community gained far more traffic since they had way more active users during the Minecraft hype years. Content modules such as our Wiki Module (used by certain huge communities), also pushed traffic.
• The https change, which disguised our recent growth and actual traffic. (See the post Brad posted regarding that)

I hope this clears up the traffic situation. To equate us to a scam because of the traffic changes on our Enjin platform (Minecraft Hype / Enjin Mobile Apps Released / HTTPS) is not fair and baseless. We are still one of the largest gaming website networks in the world based on our current traffic (US RANK 991) and growing in Client numbers and in user traffic (2017). The statistics are very clear on that.

Another note. I'm going to take on-board your criticism regarding the 66% offered to the crowd sale. We've discussed this with our team and advisors over the last few weeks and decided to change the crowdsale percentage to 80%. More details will be posted shortly regarding that.

I don't know if anything that I say will assist this operation but I would like to bring your attention to the Enjin coin slack. I searched up Lilia on the database and there seems to be the same woman that you are talking about.

Link: https://enjincoin.slack.com/messages/@lilia/ - no reply to my message so far (has replied and has sent a photo. It is the same as the one posted below)

Brad exists in the slack app too: https://enjincoin.slack.com/messages/@brad/ - no reply so far (has replied)

So does Chris: https://enjincoin.slack.com/messages/@chris/ - I messaged Chris and he did reply.

Their slack link is: https://enjincoin.slack.com/

I can also vouch for the existence of Maxim and Witek Radomski. Hope these links help in your investigation. Personally, I do not think they are scammers, but I will leave that to you guys. I can also vouch with proof for the existence of Lilia, Chris and Brad

Here was my previous quoted reply to CryptoDevil about Lilia, Chris and Brad. I also offered Cryptodevil an invite to a call with the team on voice or video multiple times and he ignored me regarding that. CryptoDevil, If you are genuine about this, then I'm more than happy to arrange a call with the team and yourself. Let me know a good time and what timezone you are in and I'll arrange it. We can also discuss the new changes we're making regarding % of tokens dedicated to the crowd sale as you had some relevant suggestions on that topic.

Maxime, you would have left Witek talking, he is better then you when it comes to avoid questions, while you, in two posts you proved the project is a scam.
I will quote all your messages and show you that each one is close to a scam definition.


That means the pictures you brough doesn't belongs to them, nor even the names.

https://i.imgur.com/TdbopoD.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ivIHLqy.png
Chris goes from a support to QA/community manager, you should have put Lilia at this position as she is the support manager.

https://i.imgur.com/GzQAU49.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/SQYXMSp.png
This one is most coherent profile, yet he doesn't have a picture, i love the simpsons too, but even his name doesn't exist.

https://i.imgur.com/x8MBVVg.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/Ddx0j7i.png
Lilia goes from Support manager to Marketing/operations, you are right, womens are better in marketing, that's right (conceived idea), sadly she doesn't exists in the social medias.



As you said, they are pseudonames and fake pictures that you puted here (check the quote) as their real names are generally not used in public social medias.

1st Scam, stealing pictures from people who are real, identity theft.

7 years of support, they are just profiles. Usually the supports never stay for too long there, they use to be changed really often, which lets me thinking they are just profiles created by Enjin to assume a task, but as you puted them in crowdsale, it is a double scam as they are robots profiles.




There is more simple, you could ask Lilia, Brad, Chris to say "Hello world" in a video and publish it.


Stop acting like Golum, asking for a private conference call. Even your supporters are asking for a public video and you are still asking for something private.


What is that delirium, you go from 66% to 80% so easily, who is this crypto adviser ? You will loose credibility, and thanks cryptodevil for pointing to that.

Conclusion triple scam, just for these histories of %, you want to play with people's money.
You are worst than joffrey in game of thrones, you send Witek to reply, and then you post non sence behinde him to show your authority with what you posted, you confirmed the shady behaviour of Enjin.

Neg bomb is coming.

Lilia asked me to upload this image since someone here is assuming she is not real. She finds it humorous that you would assume a company as big as Enjin would not have any staff to market and support the millions of users on its platform.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/81/20170810_162322.jpg

Good job, just two profiles to prove and answer the rest of the questions, like the 14% who are realocated so quickly and the impact of that decision regarding the long term goals you had about the distribution, and if it affects the original vision or not.

Ok, let's review your responses after having taken the unwise decision to try and shut down the conversation and go on a post deleting spree after you were advised not to. I trust you now realise how dumb that was for a group of people who are shaking the collection tin in the hope of convincing people to send you in excess of twelve million dollars.

First, stop making reply posts whereby you falsely claim to have already sufficiently answered a question or accuse me of having asserted things I did not assert.


1. Please show where I insisted you did not have any real traffic. Of course, I don't expect you to do that because you already know I did not at any point say that. What I did do, and what you persistently avoided answering to, was to highlight the fact that your own stats show a dramatic decline of 75% of users in the last three years. So stop dishonestly misrepresenting what I said.

2. You did not clearly and repeatedly explain anything concerning your staff beyond your insistent mantra that these three people I highlighted were 'totally real because. . .forum accounts'. I also pointed out to you that posting a picture of [e.g. insert one of your girlfriends here] and claiming her to be 'Lilia Pritchard - long time employee', is not exactly difficult to do, especially with twelve millions dollars+ at stake. So, no, it is not unreasonable for you to be asked to provide for evidence beyond that which is easily manipulated by you.


At no point have I said you did not have any staff and your attempts to ridicule valid questions concerning why the people you name have no web presence outside of your own forums are, again, a dishonest attempt to blithely dismiss the seriousness of the situation.

Before I reply to the reasoning you give for the 75% decline in users, I would like to better understand this issue concerning the fact that the actual names 'Lilia Pritchard' and 'Chris Hirasawa' provide for next-to-no google hits. In that I have already explained that the existence of various long-standing forum accounts within your platform is not evidence of who may be using them, it is essential for there to be a sufficiently removed, as in not from a part of the internet you can manipulate, source of data which can serve to show that 'Lilia Pritchard' and 'Chris Hirasawa' are real people.

So, with that in mind, I would ask you to submit links which show 'Lilia' and 'Chris' as real people from websites that are not related to you. Don't keep insisting they do not have any social media accounts, that is a risible claim to make for obvious reasons. If they are concerned about their privacy you can send me these links by dm and I will verify them privately.

I totally get your point there are lot of trolls in most ann thread but this was no joke what you could have done is solved the issue first and then delete. I had seen crypto devil post on the signature campaign but now it isn't there and for me if i was going to invest in your ico i would surely backout i mean who knows how many accusations have to deleted in the past.

It's better if you stay out of this your posting some messages we need real images of the people and some slack proof which is confirmed by someone who is supporting a potential scam won't help in any way. You will obviously have a bias opinion towards the company.

Lilia and Chris don’t use their full names on social media or any external website that I know of. If they are on social media, their accounts are private and I respect their choice for setting them that way. I’ve already made that clear before.

There is a point where you need to accept Enjin has multiple staff and Chris and Lilia are part of the team. For us to invent false identities and names for Lilia and Chris, gives us no benefit whatsoever.

They cannot go back in time and create public social media accounts for you.

They are both in our slack channel, you can converse with them anytime, or give them a call. Why would we make up the names of our staff, that also relate directly to years of post history on our network.

We didn’t create Enjin in 2009 thinking we would create Enjin Coin and therefore needed an elaborate scheme to build a marketing and support personas. This is laughable and clutching at straws now.

Their forum profiles on Enjin interacting over the last 8 years with thousands of other profiles online is not something we have cultivated for any reason but to support our customers.

Who do you think manages our Enjin Social Media accounts? https://www.twitter.com/enjincs and https://www.facebook.com/enjinsocial

Who answers support threads on our forums https://www.enjin.com/forums ?

Who handles our Zendesk support tickets https://www.enjin.com/support ?

Who is providing support at https://enjincoin.slack.com ?

Who partners with major gaming publishers and executes marketing campaigns? such as: https://twitter.com/RevOnlineGame/status/870671371780722689 ?

Who writes our blog posts? https://www.enjin.com/blog?page=3

Who writes our support articles and guides? https://support.enjin.com/hc/en-us

Who supports all these communities? https://www.enjin.com/communities

Who directs the content and marketing on Enjin? https://www.enjin.com

Let me know if there anything else I can do.

That is my point. Those names don't ping anywhere, and I mean even the usual white-pages, academic, professional or even government databases. That is unheard of.


Are you intentionally being obtuse or do you simply not understand the fact that yes, there are obvious reasons why you would invent 'Lilia' and 'Chris' as customer service accounts and it isn't for nefarious purposes, either. If you're having to provide contact points for your users, you want to be able to maintain a common front-office image and constantly having to change these as staff come and go over the years means that it makes perfect sense to 'standardise' these forum accounts into sock-puppets which can be utilised by whomever you do have working at that time to answer the support desk.

So, for all your "who answers...who writes...who supports..." snideness, the situation is still the same as it was from the beginning, namely, two forum accounts which exist as names only on your platform and are identified only through your say-so.

Look, the only other way for this to be properly settled then is for you to provide a copy of audited accounts which will serve to show the true status of your company's finances and confirm the number of registered employees you have.

I'm sorry to say Cryptodevil, you are being unreasonable, and from what I have seen from your previous accusations about Enjin (which the team extensively replied to) you are, for some reasons, being weirdly stubborn about it. Why don't you tell us your name and surname and show us your own online personal profiles with your own real picture? Do that show us who you are first, give us the good example.
I know you may say, I'm not asking people for 12 millions am I? How do we know? Nobody knows who you are, you may have other accounts on here (most probably) and you may be involved in another project trying to raise millions. Show us your linkedin, I'm very curious and I won't take scam accusations from someone who doesn't at least show who they really are. LOL

I don't think you have the right to force people who don't want to have public profiles (for privacy reasons or for whatever other reasons). And personally I looked into Enjin and seems to have more than it takes to raise funds, more than many other projects who have nothing to back their claims. For fuck sake they have been around for 9 years and one of the top companies in their business. Just that makes them a non scam 100%.

This is clearly an unreasonable attempt to discredit the project (pushed by someone with an agenda) and by that I mean someone (competitor) is pushing Cryptodevil to keep asking for stupid proofs someone actually exist.
You are only making yourself look silly Cryptodevil, as far as a scam buster you claim you are... This time you failed to prove the project is a scam. How much are you getting paid for this? Tell us the truth.
I mean everyone can see you are being unreasonable, no one needs to see anyone's online profiles, this is the silliest claim I have heard and shows there is more than what Cryptodevil claims to be. The one being obtuse is you, not the Enjin team.

Unfortunately it's hard for you to step back and say: ok guys, you answered my queries, because you made so much noise so far and cannot just accept the fact there is nothing wrong with the Enjin team. It will make you look silly wouldn't it? Have you ever retracted scam accusations in the past? That will be very telling.

How do we know because of your forum history (and previous claims of scam busting) you are not sponsored by competitor projects? Or even NEMGUN who seems to spend his life trying to advise Enjin.
You even threatened to neg rate every participant of the Enjin signature campaign, ruining people's accounts and their chance to join any other signature campaign, without any proof the project is a scam.
Now that is pretty bad coming from someone who claims to do things for the benefit of the community. You would actually ruin community members reputation even without confirmed proof of scam from Enjin's side.


As per NEMGUN, dude the team doesn't need your advise, you got to accept the fact that you have been rude to them and your suggestions to try and get them on NVO (yes your own project that raised millions) or other crap blockchains that nobody uses for tokens were very poor. Why does the team have to reinvent the wheel with their own blockchain or even choose anything else than Ethereum which is become almost the standard for creating tokens. Enjin made the right choice in my opinion and what I see coming from you is a whole load of biased nonsense. You made your point several times, you ruined their first, original, uncensored thread with your comments, they had to setup a moderated one so they could try and keep the conversation about Enjin, not about what NEMGUN thinks Enjin should do.

Again you are not doing any good to your own project (NVO) by posting nonsense as you do and attacking other projects. Hopefully the team will realize soon because you definitely are giving NVO bad advertisement.
I also wonder if the NVO team is aware one of their team members is hassling a project who refused to join their platform. Should we go and start making some noise on their NVO thread? See what their community thinks?
A project that is struggling to get any partnerships, a project that couldn’t even setup their own blockchain but used the SAFE network, which nobody uses. I see where you are coming from, having a project like Enjin onboard makes perfect sense. I bet the community sees it too. You come across as butthurt in this situation.


Finally, why did Lauda get involved?
Lauda did the escrow for the NVO token sale (with the financial benefits that entails, he must have made a smashing at 0.2% fee).
Also NVO did a signature campaign with ACE for a month, Lauda is the manager of the ACE group. (Another financial relation).
NEMGUN asked him for a favour (seen there was a previous business/financial relation) to setup a new (Uncensored) thread.
But why ask Lauda? I believe you didn't even realize that he is not a moderator of this forum any longer. But you may have been of the impression he was and that the new thread would have had a greater effect if he had opened it. Why didn't you open the uncensored thread yourself? Well, you wanted it to make an impact... Because by yourself you got no chance of convincing anyone.

I read your comments NEMGUN, they make no business sense. What you need to do now is step back realize that Enjin won't take any advise from you. You do sound silly and butthurt to the rest of us.
The community also doesn't give a sausage about what you have to recommend. (…you are fucking with the Algerian government…) LOL I stop at that and let the community make their own mind up on what type of character you are.

TO SUM IT UP:

Cryptodevil: he can't find anything which makes this project a scam so he is hanging on needing to see proof Lilia Pritchard and others are real people. If they send a video will that satisfy you?
NEMGUN: butthurt because the team blocked him and didn't want to get involved with him nor NVO nor any of his bad suggestions.
Lauda: close relationship with NEMGUN so he got involved because he was asked, or paid. He is a very controversial character, just look at his trust ratings.



The 3 above all have negative trust ratings, read them up to make your own judgement to see who is preaching.

You guys also neg rated all of the Enjin team members, the 3 of you, that sounds like a very coordinated operation. Who are the scammers here?

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NEXT:

• Enjin sends a satisfying proof that Lilia and others are real. I personally think it's not needed but hey they won't stop hassling, that's the only thing they got against this project and it's silly.
• If all good this thread title gets changed to something more in tone with the issues at hand and locked unless anyone has anymore doubts.
• Neg ratings get removed after everyone is happy proofs are sufficient.
• Cryptodevil finds another project to hassle that is actually a scam.
• NEMGUN goes back to be an NVO team member and stops giving ill advice to projects that don't want his "expertise."
• Lauda locks the uncensored thread which has no reason to exist but for NEMGUN to troll Enjin.

Peace up people, this space is very toxic and Bitcointalk is one of the most toxic forums in the space, especially with individuals such as NEMGUN who would pay people (apparently he is loaded from the NVO sale) to pursue his accusation and will drag others in such as Lauda and possibly Cryptodevil himself.

Show this community you are actually reasonable and are actually doing this for the community not for personal gain, discredit a project with baseless accusations (because you got no proof so far), and use your own forum status/rank to convince people otherwise.

Sounds like a non-apology apology.

Lauda is probably involved in the majority of the cases in this section in the past year. Lauda gets involved in pretty much anything that is warranted/interesting and sent to it via PM.¹

Are you trying to publicly claim that Cryptodevil and/or I were paid? Do you have any proof for this accusation?

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The rest of your post is basically just ad hominem (mostly with fake or irrelevant information) against 3 individuals. Let's take a look at your back-yard then. ::) All your posts are useless spam, up until the one where you strongly endorse Enjin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2042871.msg20773303#msg20773303) which leads me to speculate whether:
1) You're a paid shill.
2) You're involved in this yourself.  
Then again, you seem to "know a lot", thus you are either a senior forum member or definitely closely involved with Enjin.

---

[1] - I am not compromised, it just sounded better to use third-person in this context.

I said what I had to say, I did my research, everything is on the forum and your trust feedback.
There is proof you had previous business relation with NEMGUN, and he asked you to setup a thread.

There isn't a single valid negative trust feedback on me. You have no idea what you are talking about. All those are from butthurt idiots that got busted (similar to possibly the Enjin team; will see).

Which is what I would have done for pretty much any acquaintance given that what their asking was warranted to a certain extent. The only reason for which I haven't negged the Enjincoin team right away is exactly because I had/have a relationship with the accuser. Put differently, I knew there was bias that couldn't be avoided even with self-awareness, thus I did not do anything (other than open a thread, but that's trivial). You are trying to smear my name for doing the right thing, applause shill. ::)

Ok that's all the community needs to know: .
You have not been involved in harassing Enjin, however you neg rep them and helped create a thread, you claim you did it because you would have done it anyway for anyone else asking or acquaintance.
The community needs to know there was a previous relation between you and NEMGUN/NVO. That's all.

What the community also needs to know is that this originated from NEMGUN because he is butthurt with the team, can't confirm Cryptodevil is involved that way but looking at his unreasonable request of Proof of People Existance (POPE)  ;D when nobody else has any doubts is very telling on what the reason behind his trolling may be.

That is nothing new. If you are responding/getting involved in any case where you've had a single interaction with one of the parties, you are likely to be biased. However, if you are strongly against bias, self-aware and strive towards objectiveness, you can avoid it in most cases.

I have not helped create anything. If you are talking about the unmoderated thread, it's just a c/p of the original thread.

That is well known, publicly documented, and irrelevant.

The criticism and issues raised by either nemgun or cryptodevil are not trivial. They are warranted and need be answered. The strong censorship by the Enjin team, who is new to this platform, has not scored any bonus points for them.

Here are some (old) videos recorded by Lilia discussing the Enjin CMS 6 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqUa8Zfpmv8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG9o3FXH6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acdP4aUxNbM

These are just screen-recordings but it'll be pretty apparent when we do a video that it's her voice :P

You are not the focus here, and what you say only supports NEMGUN and Cryptodevil's cause. NEMGUN doesn't have any right to advise the team if they don't want to. And he is trolling them.
Cryptodevil is also being unreasonable, everyone can see that.

The team just posted some videos with audio from Lilia, they are 7 years old. That is pretty much a good proof to me. But I'm sure Cryptodevil won't be satisfied yet. Because he has an agenda.

As per censoring, I hate that too. I don't support that. But looking at what happened in Enjin's case they have all the rights to keep their own thread on topic. They only setup a moderated thread after NEMGUN attacked them with nonsense in their previous thread. And even in the new one you created only NEMGUN is trolling. What does that tell you?

To me it shows that NEMGUN has personal issues with the team which are of no interest to the community or to anyone who could potentially invest in Enjin.

Even Cryptodevil posted repeatedly on their official thread, not backing off or acknowledging the replies given which were fair and extensive and repeating himself. They didn't delete all his posts if you look closely, only a couple that were repeats. Cryptodevil instead says they have done mass censorship, which is not true. Who is lying here?

However censorship is not good, the team realized, mentioned it, took corrective action on their own thread, and came on here explaining the same things they explained several times before.
They are not hiding they are being open. Even the quality of the answers and the proof they have shown so far is sufficient to prove a person exist.

@NewProject,
I have nothing to do with gaming, i haven't looked for them nor tried to engage contact with them, NVO isn't related.

I have been contacted to give advises on Enjin, the first question i asked was about ERC20, was it for the hype of ethereum ? or because they had an ethereum community.

I always reply to anyone interested in cryptocurrencies, i love cryptos, bitcoin, and i use to be consulted. when ever i feel a scam attitude or project, i always warn not to go on that path.

I didn't wanted to post the discussions, but as Enjin did, let me follow :


https://i.imgur.com/TIarnU2.png


- On these messages you can see that i said to Witek that originally they made a project for money, while with that idea, it was going to be an excellent project. He wanted to meet me in Algeria and i told him that it wouldn't be easy because of Visa requirements, he then said that he will meet ton.
we don't know what happened meanwhile, Ton waited for them, we were even worried about Witek thinking that something may hapened to him. No more contacts after that.

After that, i saw them using the ideas we spoke about, with an ERC20 token while game developers doesn't need them to do it, a game developer will directly integrate with ethereum instead, releasing his own token without been bound to any platform.

I don't feel ofended or anything like that, as a member of bitcointalk i wanted to protect my community and warn her about that.

You can check my old posts, i use to help a lot of people on the development threads, i always acted like that with everyone.

Again, i will always help any project providing something beneficial to the crypto community.


Let me give you some details, some games gives you the ability to host your private servers. The actual architecture described in the whitepaper shows that you will need to integrate into their platform in order to run the contracts, you will need their public API platform as you won't need to use WEB3 extension. Which means the project is centralized, and this is why i say this project in his actual state cannot go really far.

Knowing the state of the gaming industry, 2 million gamers are nothing in a gaming platform, it is like for the exchange, originally people though they were decentralized while they used decentralized coins. It would have been more intelligent to create a blockchain with an API talking to a daemon instead of using an API who will communicate with a platform, who will then communicate with a daemon, which means that it is not decentralized. They used the ideas i spoke about, and used it with an ERC20 token, and i don't appreciate that.

And when you doubts about a project, you contact people like cryptodevil, one of the users who are helping to keep bitcointalk clean. Just check his signature, please take the time to understand bitcointalk before accusing anyone of been biased.

Thanks for the reply, I have to say that after your conversation above possibly things didn't go too well as there were other negative comments from you.
I only saw what was posted in this thread and the others so that's what I base my judgement on.
Now you made your point several times, and you included your personal opinion above. It is your personal opinion at the end of the day.

The team decided to go the way they have independently from what you have suggested and they are not going to change their mind at this stage.
So what is the point of you trolling them continuously? I mean you must be busy doing the stuff you do, why don't you give them and the community a break?

It feels like you don't want to give up, and I understood above you told Cryptodevil to get involved:


To create even more drama about this, when really the team is solid, the platform is solid, they have millions of users, tons of game partnerships, have been around for 9 years, and so on.

Again you made your point, the project is not a scam, if they fail it's not your fault and the community can make their own decisions based on their whitepaper and what they can see that exist already, a successful company which is one of the leaders in their field.

I believe because of the size of their business they will do very well with their token and its implementation, and I want to put some money in it myself, whatever I can afford... LOL
They will also help get mainstream gamers to know about crypto and get involved. Any company like that with a huge userbase is beneficial to the space once they intro blockchain.

I've not been around this forum for long, started following about a year and a half ago, but only recently created an account, I have an idea for a gaming project, but it's still only an idea.
I take on your comment, I don't know everything and I am relatively new here. I can't even post pictures yet LOL.

But I do see when someone is being negative and unreasonable or biased, like you in this case. I understand if Enjin was a scam then all this would be welcome... but it is not.
Give the team a break and let them do what they set themselves to do, at the end of the day crypto is all a big experiment, everything can fail tomorrow. But thanks to teams like Enjin, that decided to adopt a token for their hugely popular platform, crypto will eventually grow its user base into mainstream. That is the best way for crypto to become even more popular. Even Overstock (a different thing altogether) announced they will be accepting more cryptocurrencies. These are all great news. We need more of this.

I am sure you have better things to do than spending your time trolling about Enjin. See what you can do, in your last post you seem to be reasonable.

@NewProject, i will be off topic for a moment, i would like to welcome you in bitcointalk, i like to greet the new members even if you are not that new.

Yes i have different things to do like bringing technologies to the cryptocurrencies.

From your point of view i am trolling, and i understand it, it may be due to your lack of experience.

As you said, everything can stop, the cryptos can fail at the moment we let cryptos run for hypes only, using them as a mean to get money from people. Regarding the statements of Enjin, they are based in Singapor which means they are less bothered by laws and regulations which is not the case of their users. You should know that organisms like the SEC in USA wants to protect the investors, even my project was almost confronted.

Do you know also that today, the SEC is regulating the Ethereum blockchain because of the excessive amount of ICOs on that blockchain, i hope that you understand that every member of the community have to protect it, cryptos born, rise, and die because of the community.

Knowing this crowdsale wants to take advantage of the ethereum hype, shown on my preceeding posts, i prefer that cryptodevil does investigations, and reports scam projects like what he did regarding BTC-E, it is an exchange who owns KYC from many users in the community, it ended like a scam, a centralized company who was one of the oldest exchanges.

The grand question is, does bitcoin, Ethereum, or Litecoin already scamed someone ? It is mathematically impossible to find a scam accusation towards these blockchains, while the ERC20 tokens are constantly accused of such behaviour as they are operated by unexperimented people. Regarding this point, blockchains a monetary development, while Enjin takes advantage of a montary speculation which is totally different.
If you notice in the screen, i said to Witek "After that you will talk with your CEO and tell him that ...." have a closer look at the message, i permited myself to talk like that, to give orders, and they even wanted to come and meet my team as they knew that their original idea was a scam, and was about taking advantage of a hype like i said in the same message.

Lauda and Cryptodevil replies to everyone, this is why they are trusted, these are the essence of decentralization because they act for decentralization and the welfare of everyone.
As you lack knowledge in development, decentralization and after that in affairs, business, ask questions, no need to give judgements, you will learn a lot more.

One of the founders of this forum was satoshi nakamoto, made it for developers. Investing is your sole right, warning is my sole right.

Also, i wanted to specify that bitcointalk is shaded from their website since the begining.
https://i.imgur.com/GjAEUz9.png

Which is a censorship continuity while they launch a signature campaign and invest funds there.

Alright, finally we can talk about something interesting:

The Platform API is there to provide small bits of semi-centralized functionality that enhance but don't override or diminish the decentralized nature of Enjin Coin -- those advantages of the blockchain that everyone here is familiar with.

We come from a background of developing an online social network platform used by large numbers of people. We understand that for blockchain technology to really go mainstream, it needs to be extremely easy to use. The Platform API allows wallets to translate information between a centralized game and blockchain tokens. We can put the cryptographic hashes into the background and develop a user interface that meaningfully interacts with the video game. The users will be presented with a brilliantly simple and familiar experience, customized to the games they play. Since the popular games are centralized, they provide some of their human-readable data and notifications from a centralized source, but it doesn't affect the decentralized nature of Enjin Coin and all assets created with it.


On your second point: The Platform API can be implemented in the game server daemon, it does not necessarily need to be a separate API. We are going to provide some reference APIs that can be adapted in either way. The powerful thing here is that you can choose to implement an API for your network of game servers, or serve it directly from 1 lone game server. Enjin will be hosting our own Platform API to cover our website network, but other gaming services & developers can serve and customize it however they like.

Some cool features of the Platform API:

• The "player" identity data format is very customizable, game developers can implement it in creative ways suited to their game. We've tried to anticipate many forms of strange game player types; ranging from single player/character names, to hive-mind AIs with collections of wallets and complex attributes and no singular identity (:D).
• Games and platforms that share character data types may come to a consensus on the official player data format, and allow players to sync their data across platforms.
• It will expose some useful blockchain data as JSON to be fed into websites (for example, showing your "guild bank account" in a web widget).
• Create true decentralized subscriptions, and notify the end-user (wallet) about the subscription terms to be accepted. These will then be enforced over time directly between the user wallet and smart contracts.

Finally, the games themselves will use our Enjin Coin SDK which can connect to Ethereum directly, but again the Platform API is used for certain operations like sending out push notifications. Like I said above, this can be hosted on the game server itself or in a central location used by related game servers (for example, like the Blizzard API or Mojang Minecraft API is structured).

Witek, please answer Cryptodevil, you are the CTO (Chief Technical officer, lead developer, main developer ...) of Enjin not the CEO and not a promoter as I spoke about development and you replied with promotions. You are good at deriving from the main topic. I have been censored when i posted the same questions, and now it is interesting.

Let's respect the OP, answer his questions, we will talk about development later as i don't want to ridiculise your explanation.

let's get back to the OP's concerns.

You are the one who brought focus on me, the minute that you've made fake and defamatory accusations in your post.

No, he is not.

By everyone you mean the team of accused people and their shills? :D

Cryptodevil has no agenda, and never had one (AFAIK) in any case that he busted open.

Disagreed. Both of the people accusing Enjincoin were strongly censored (not sure about other people, but it wouldn't surprise me). Heck, he was even censored from the signature campaign thread (I think).

Alright you are lying too now. LOL The first thread wasn't censored, so all of NEMGUN posts are still there, your thread is not censored either, so all NEMGUN posts are still there.
The new thread is moderated and only a couple of posts were moderated, so not sure where you get heavily moderated from. You are just trying to find an excuse to give yourself reason to speak.

By everyone I mean the community, I could say the same to you, you are a shill for NEMGUN because of your previous business relation (where you made quite a bit of money).

The only thing that has been proved here is not that Enjin is a scam but that:

NEMGUN contacted you because he is butthurt to open a thread: and that is true and you confirmed it.
NEMGUN contacted Cryptodevil to bash the project, call it investigate, and because 2 repetitive posts were deleted he created a scam thread, plays well for NEMGUN on his mission to bash Enjin.
NEMGUN has been trolling Enjin since their first thread, and that's a fact and proof is on the relative threads as well as here.

So to finish up, NEMGUN and his personal issues with the team is the reason why all this happened.

SO FAR NO ONE HAS PROVED THE PROJECT IS A SCAM. :)

You guys are abusing your reputation to deliberately libel against a project, outside of bitcointalk that is punishable by law.

The community surely can see this.

We don't use sock puppets though, we've had several support staff and other employees over the years who are no longer working at Enjin. You can see some of their previous videos on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/user/EnjinSupport/videos

Matt, Todd, and Kris made a number of these videos over the years, and used their first names on Youtube and Enjin. There is no need for sock puppets. I'm really trying hard to understand your reasoning here. I can't believe you are accusing us of being scammers.

Please don't be patronizing, I know a thing or two about blockchain projects as I have been following for over a year and a half on this forum but even before then just by following various Slack, Telegram, Skype, and news on bitcoin media, etc.

I am not a developer and I don't need to be to discuss the credibility of a project. This thread is not even about the technical issues but about some suspicious scammy behaviour which has been addresses by the team.
The main issues were Enjin network traffic stats and that 3 people can't be found online.

Let's stick to that. So far there is no proof of wrongdoing on these two issues. The traffic issue has been explained in detail.
The POPE (Proof of People Existance) issue has also been extensively replied to.

Anything else you say is to divert attention to personal issues you have with the project which have no merit in this thread.


And no:


This is not true, the SEC only expressed their opinion about the DAO and that tokens in that case were securities, however they decided not to go any further.
So I think you need to get your facts straight.

Cryptodevil's post on the signature campaign thread threatened (in red text) to rate everyone in the campaign with negative trust. That's basically bullying and because of that it was deleted:

https://i.imgur.com/EtFFhde.jpg

Thank you for pointing out what is happening here. NEMGUN is beyond butthurt and is pushing / using his connections / business dealings with Lauda and Crytodevil to attack us. I was under the impression Lauda and Cryptodevil where legitimate and genuine in relation to presenting questions about this project. Now I understand that NO answer will satisfy them.

I mentioned that previously, that is outrageous, Cryptodevil abusing his forum reputation to scare innocent people who just want to earn a little.
Who's idea was that? NEMGUN?

Let's scare them off... We haven't even proved they are a scam but hey let's scare them anyway...

Such a bad attitude and you guys say you do this for the community??? LOL

That's what I call the Bitcointalk Mafia, you do what we say or we fuck you over.

Who are the scammers here? Ask yourself the question.

There is no rule that say moderated threads cannot be had, otherwise why would there be an option?
And moderated threads are for moderation, so got to accept that. In no way the Enjin team did something unusual apart from deleting 2 posts from Crytodevil that were a repeat of previous posts.
I can't fault the team for having moderated Cryptodevil especially after seeing the abuse on the signature thread.
Neither I can fault them for not wanting to have to deal with NEMGUN nor hear his opinion.
Just read his previous posts on here, and the 2 previous threads to have a look at the nonsense he has been posting.

We cannot share private company documents with people online who we don't know. Also, our employees care about their personal information and we don't feel they would be safe in your hands. What we'll do is a hangout video with the team, showing that everyone here is a real person and put these accusations to rest.

That sounds like a good idea, if you do it on YouTube you get an option for a chat on the side of the video where anyone can participate and ask questions.
So even Cryptodevil can sign in with a generic YouTube account and ask all the questions he wants directly.

Please provide me your full name and links to social media. Since you're accusing us of being a scam with ZERO evidence (including bullying the community and team members) and hiding behind an anonymous persona (the irony). You won't even take a call from us. Why are you so scared to reveal your identity? What are you hiding exactly? I need to make sure you are not working for a competitor for example and other possible ulterior motives. If you value your privacy then feel free to PM me the details. The fact that NENGUM is involved in this with you directly, is more than enough reasoning for me to ask who you are.

I have gone above and beyond in answering your baseless scam accusations. It's now your turn to prove your identity and showing the community you have no hidden agenda.

As for proof of a coordinated attack here you go:

https://i.imgur.com/05NYKvW.png

And the Jacob70 account, I bought it so that we could post our main threads with images. Buying and selling accounts is allowed on this forum.

Wow.

Pretty scummy to do something like this. You guys are still trying to label this particular ICO as a scam.

I don't really see how this is a scam, after sifting through the majority of all three threads. They have given you replies which had addressed the most of the issues.

- I'm sure most of this will be put to rest if the Enjin team decides to make a public video.

OP you try real hard sometime for people to keep liking you, I bet you are a fucking loser in real life

We'll arrange a hangout for next week - I'll schedule a date.

Giving us some vague messages from a Skype chat with the sole reason of depicting someone as a bad person is just not enough. Things can easily be taken out of context. Especially if you had a lengthy conversation.


The very action of burring posts that try to resolve some issues with your project instead of providing answers that would prove them wrong in front of your entire community indicated about the possible intentions of your CEO.

https://enjincoin.io/enjincoin_whitepaper.pdf
Also you've got a book instead of whitepaper, where are the protocol, where are the details on how will your project work?  


So instead going personal, and fighting valued members of bitcointalk community,  prove us you're having a technical team, and explain us how will you integrate ethereum tokens into a gaming platform?

No.


I was talking about the self-moderated thread.

Stop with the defamation.

See, you come in here thinking you know how this place works but you do not. You are lucky that he has given a warning before applying the negative ratings. He does not have to, and in most cases people do not warn you.

More defamatory bullshit. People tend to copy the previous rating if nothing new needs to be added.

Enjin didn't handle this situation tactfully, but there's better ways to bring up issues with an ICO, you guys jumped the gun, it's difficult to take any of this seriously.

I'm nauseated by both sides.

Bullying? Pressuring a group of people into engaging with relevant issues they keep dismissing is not bullying and people in your position who resort to infantile reactions such as alleging they are being 'bullied' for the truth are to be considered as suspiciously disingenuous.

Hello Newbie account which has only been used to post pro-Enjin fanbois shilling. You'll have to excuse me if I'd rather not take your word for it on the matter. Besides, I don't doubt they have the ability to raise funds, otherwise I wouldn't be expressing the concerns I have about their ability to actually utilise those funds effectively.

Let me draw your attention to the OP

I attempted to engage on a number of issues in their thread and, having decided they no longer wanted to answer to those concerns, the Enjin team chose to delete my posts. I subsequently advised them not to do so and that if they continued I would have to consider their behaviour sufficiently evasive and dishonest that it would warrant the action I ended up having to take. My practice of tagging people who wear the signature of projects for which a scam accusation exists is not new and it is a very effective way of limiting the public's exposure to potentially fraudulent schemes.

I do get that you and your friends feel somewhat entitled to launch this ICO unencumbered by probing questions about the true state of Enjin Pte Ltd, but this forum is littered with the carcasses of long-dead schemes fuelled by hype and promises and the underlined portion of the above statement is correct, namely, for all the millions of dollars they claim pass through their accounts each month they obviously aren't earning enough to fund this project themselves.

Which means there are genuine concerns about just how honest they are being on a number of levels when all they keep doing is hyping their platform as being so immensely successful. In not knowing the true state of the company there can be no guarantee, for example, that this twelve million isn't also intended to help bail them out of financial difficulty, something their investors wouldn't be particularly happy about.

I'm not saying this is the case, I'm saying it is an absolutely legitimate concern which is being highlighted by the lack of verifiable information on Enjin's company structure and performance.

This ICO appears to have been put together very quickly, with little focus on the realities of the numbers involved, but with buckets of fanfare and hype about a platform which hasn't yet offered to prove its financial capabilities. As has already been pointed out, the 'Enjincoin whitepaper' isn't a whitepaper at all, it is a marketing brochure.

Here's the thing, Maxim, you and your team's responses have so far fallen far short of that needed to distinguish you from every other promise-laden hype-ICO, so if you choose to accuse me of being irrelevant, illegitimate or prejudiced then so be it, nothing will change.

As much as it pains you to have to answer to the public, it is the ONLY way you are going to convince them, and me, that your negative trust rating is undeserved.

So, with that in mind, I would ask that you dial-down the accusatory diatribe in this AND your moderated announcement thread, because it is doing your ICO no favours. I am a reasonable person and have no problem with removing negative ratings and withdrawing scam accusations when and where it is warranted. It would do you far more good to corral your team into behaving significantly more professionally than you have been and engage with the concerns raised in good order so that this matter can be settled either way.

As I said previously, given that the issues I have raised concerning your staff and performance figures can be immediately assuaged through providing audited accounts, something which you appear to be reluctant to do, at the very least you should be able to have your auditors issue an abbreviated account statement outlining your firm's financial health, no?

I tend to agree with Illinest above. Cryptodevil keeps shifting the goalpost.

The issues are:

- 3 people don't have personal profiles online
- traffic stats for Enjin network

Both have had extensive answers from the team, in my view I have no doubt Lilia is a team member, there's even 3 videos with her voice from 7 years ago showing how Enjin works.
Traffic stats have also been explained and proven, so no issue there. See previous posts from Enjin team.

And now he wants to see audited financials? From a private company. Someone who is anonymous asking a registered company to provide confidential information...
In your dreams :)

I advise the team not to fall for this. You don't have to share any financials with anyone. No ICO has ever been asked to share this type of info.
Cryptodevil knows you are not going to provide these, and he will use it to keep this thread open to his advantage, because well he got nothing.

Dude you are being VERY unreasobale and clearly haven't proven Enjin is a scam yet.

And yet you ignore the company has been running for 9 years, millions of users, hundreds of communities, and so on...

I know why you don't answer to me, not because you think I'm a shill, it's easier to do that instead of backtracking on your baseless assumptions.

What I'm glad of is that several people have seen this already and commented about it too, if you think people are stupid and they believe in this smear campaign attempt then you are disillusioned.

LOL gosh knows what's next, depends on how Cryptodevil wakes up in the morning.

Dude give it a rest, you failed to prove Enjin is a scam, or there's anything suspicious. Time to rename this chat and go find actual scams if that's what you do all day.

i just noticed this thread today. can someone just tell me whether i'm going to get default negative trust for advertising enjin?

i've read the allegations. pending the hangout, the only issue is the deletion of posts from a moderated thread. i don't have the time or energy to read through all of the ANN thread to determine if the deleted posts were, in fact, repetitive and/or trolling. it seems that, regardless, all questions regarding enjin's traffic were adequately addressed. thus, i don't believe this warrants a scam accusation or negative trust (unless you take the position that all ICOs are scams and deserve such). i am also still comfortable advertising the ICO based on this. but i will remove my signature immediately if cryptodevil says so because he can ruin all of our reputations, permanently, based only on his say-so and regardless of any evidence. it seems like that is probably what he plans to do here, and no one on this forum will stop him, so i won't get in the way.

so, if cryptodevil could simply clarify what his plans are.....? that would be nice. hopefully you'll at least give the signature advertisers a PM and a day or two to remove the signature before you neg trust them at least, as a courtesy?

I really don't want to be involved in this mess, but I feel obligated to chime because the Bitcoin Co-op is based in Vancouver, where Witek Radomski lives and is reasonably well-known to the local Bitcoin community. His wife has also been around for a long time, and she's prominent in the life extension movement, so it seems unlikely that her husband is doing something malicious. They're really more the quiet creative/nerdy type... they're also famous for designing a coloring book (https://www.amazon.ca/Legendary-Landscapes-Coloring-Book-Journey/dp/0994881509)

My guess is that they moderated the thread because they were scared and didn't know what to do... I'm judging this based on the fact that he reached out to more than one person for advice. I didn't answer him quickly because I'm extremely overworked, so he charged ahead... I still need to learn more about their project for Blockchain Gaming (http://www.blockchaingaming.com). So I can't really vouch for the rest of their team or their model, but for now I'm comfortable giving positive trust to Witek individually

I trusted them because in the video call we had, the CTO told me that it was effectively idiot to use the ethereum hype and screw the reputation of enjin, and that maxim mistakenly choosed that path as he wanted to get the funds from it, he said he will talk with him about that idea knowing that it is as bad and dishonest behaviour.
In my message you will notice that i have been asked for advises and ideas, i don't try to force anyone to do anything, the unique condition is not to act like a scam, and to provide a viable project.
They offered to give me tokens, i refused, i don't do that for money, i do it for the community because i want cryptos to grow and be more accepted.
Try not to accuse people without viable informations.

This is the discussion in its real context :

https://i.imgur.com/sY12gdZ.png

I have been called around 3AM the day before, i was drunk, they started to talk about ethereum, i explained them that when someone releases an ICO without offering anything in return it is called a scam.
What is the definition of a scam ?

A scam is a result of a scheme made to gather funds from people by offering something in return, or by offering nothing.
In the case of a return offer, the team may be honest, while been scaming people because of the weakness of the project itself, been unable to deliver, Or by endangering the community and the users.
A scam doesn't means that you want to take money from people only, but that you created a scheme in order to gather as much as possible, and using these funds for different purposes.
A scam is about dishonest behaviour of the team.

The word scam means a lot of things, for example, in these screens you can see that their main concern is to protect the team, not the users :

https://i.imgur.com/bNhWuj2.png

https://i.imgur.com/T0xEYEo.png


I said that the best would be to provide a TOS who protects both the users and the team, as a concern for the users due to the rapid changes in the political scene of the cryptos. As i said, my main concern is about protecting the community while they don't seem to care about them, the crowdsale seems to be built to serve Enjin only.

People like escrows, and old members of the community like Lauda and Cryptodevil are here to protect the community, as a proof, you haven't taken the time to understand the community and the mechanisms, you had to buy an account to post images, you are not even part of this community. So please, try to be more professional and respectfull when you express yourself.

I see your own NVO token sale provided protection for both the users and team right?

https://blockchain.info/address/3AiGej11G8jUXvEBPvQKPLiHXC7ruUCp1Z (NVO Token Sale Escrow Address)

Total Received 3,405.38710067 BTC
Final Balance: 0.00272019 BTC

So where are all the remaining BTC supposed to be released over time after milestones were achieved gone?

From your own thread:


I see no BTC left in the escrow address but I don't see the address/es where the remaining BTC are held, I mean for transparency sake you should at least post the wallets containing those coins on the OP.
I see no other escrow address with any BTC available on your thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917456.0

What happened then? Who's escrowing NVO's BTC now?

The last update on your blog was in June: https://medium.com/nvo-exchange not bad, well done keeping the community informed! Not even a post sale blogpost to say thank you to your contributors.
You raised the money now who cares about releasing some updates right?

How are you protecting both users and team? Come again? I didn't get that...

Cryptodevil, want to look into it? (Joke)

Lauda, you were one of the escrows... Know anything? (Joke #2)

I'm not saying NVO is a scam, but transparency-wise I've seen better, the information above should be clearly shown at least on your thread, website, or a blogpost.
Would be interesting to see the remaining BTC in an address. Look at your own turf before going criticizing someone else's.

Also you suggest Enjin they should create their own blockchain or that ERC-20 tokens are hypey...
When your own token is a Counterparty asset? LOL it takes two minutes to create. Such hard development went into that right?
I see mentions of eventually XCP will have smartcontracts on Bitcoin, payments channels, etc, which will be useful for NVO, etc...
That is quite a long time away (if it'll ever happen) if you know how things move on Counterparty, you could have created an ERC-20 token yourself and be able to use smart contracts right away.
And you shot yourselves in the foot with that because BTC Tx fees are quite high, imagine your users having to move tokens, ouch a little pricey.
Wouldn't an ERC-20 token been more convenient and cheaper? I guess you guys could not develop the smart contract for it and it costed quite a bit to get it made by someone else especially if you needed a sale contract on top of it too.

Enjin can actually benefit from being on Ethereum as it's ready for smart contracts (and what you can do with them) as well as cheaper for users and the team to use: very good business decision.

And your GitHub: https://github.com/nvoproject (empty, not one line of code). You guys have been very busy especially with development have to say. :)

So looks to me you found the easier way to create a token, when I thought you were such a good developer who can advise other teams.

---

You sound like very nice and polite on this thread, trying to give advice and protect the community.
However you were not so nice on the thread that Lauda created for you:


to avoid the posts of intelligent people who have interesting questions to ask. (LOL is that supposed to be you?)

Oh wow this is where Cryptodevil got the idea to threaten the signature campaigners with a negative rating. Did you tell him to do that? (Ouch!)

And the original thread that was taken over by NEMGUN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2028112.0

See how nice and unbiased he's been? Take some time to go through it if you want to know why Enjin created a moderated thread.
They were victims of NEMGUN intelligent posts.

Nemgun, the system can be developed on Ethereum. While Stratis and Blockstream look cool, Ethereum works today. It has the largest developer community, great tools and adoption. We can develop sidechain functionality if we run into limitations or the planned Ethereum updates fall short of their promises. We are currently developing the smart contracts and creating specs for the API and SDK development and see a straightforward path to completion.

Your claims about needing a $400,000 TOS were insane. Where did you pull that number out of? We are working with our lawyer on a high-quality terms and conditions document (which will be ready soon).

We'll do the video next week. We'll be putting up our source code in the upcoming days, weeks and months. We'll continue providing detailed information and discussion in articles and forum posts.

I was hoping to spend my time on Bitcointalk interacting with an open and interesting community about our coin design but the last 4 weeks have been mind-numbing and hostile (see our original uncensored thread, if you still think that deleting posts caused all this - on the contrary, Nemgun appeared and started calling us prostitutes, making death threats, posting ridiculous images everywhere, saying he's a "god" compared to us. christ.).

I would rather be spending my time working on Enjin Coin and discussing the technology, challenges, and solutions here.

Thanks for that :) The Vancouver Bitcoin community is something special. Also I'd be happy to go over Enjin Coin sometime for Blockchain Gaming or do a talk later.

@NewProject

Hopefuly you posted the question on the NVO thread, i replied there.

Regarding the second part, i will ignore your posts as you constantly go off topic. You are a newbie, you don't know much even if you act like you know more, no problem.


@WitekRadomski

Ethereum is huge, vast, and i know the technology is really strong, a lot of features. You want ot use a small shard of it, an ERC20 token, with smart contracts. A side chain is a blockchain who can generate coins and smart contracts with different features.

Blockstream is Bitcoin, it is the best technology you will find around, 455 collaborators on github.

Let me resume what you offer in term of development with Enjin.

You want to list a token on your centralized platform for several millions of dollars. This is what i can't understand, it is your token and you imagine he have many functions while it is more limited compared to what you describe, without your false imagination you need the help of several investors to list your token on your platform, who is centralized.

No need to talk about the API or SDK development, the documentations are already done and provided by the ethereum community, you can also find cheatsheets on the decentralized ethereum exchanges.

The thing is that i don't see why does you required this amount while nothing you bring nothing, i know the reply, both you and maxim told me that it is to take advantage of the Ethereum hype.

You say that you are working on the specs of the smart contract, you can't go too far into its development as there are many limitations, you can't weigh the blockchain, it won't be usable, after a moment, you could reach hash collusion points. A smart contract is a tiny shard of the blockchain. However, in your whitepaper, you give blockchain features, thows we spoke about, while you use a tiny shard of what the blockchain have to offer which is impossible to realise.

Which resumes it to, several millions, to list your token on your platform.

I just read the OP and I personally completely agree with cryptodevil.

When someone has 7, 10 years of experience in something, they must have some sort of presence on the web right? It doesn't even need to be social media(but hey, any professional should have some sort of social media to showcase their resume, e.g. linkedin), it can be mentions in other projects and whatnot.

IMO this is something that is overlooked time and time again, people assume that these are real people, without searching up the names themselves. And more and more ICOs are starting to do this...

It's like hiring someone on fiver to do your video, and in use their photo. It's done, just search it up. Ponzi scammers use it all the time to make themselves seem legit.

BTW, why is the sig campaign still running? Why hasn't Decoded stopped running it, even though there are obvious indicators that this may be a scam? I wouldn't go as far as tagging everyone advertising for Enjincoin, but the manager has to stop running the campaign when legitimate suspicions like this arise.

But this is off topic here NEMGUN, nobody wants to hear your suggestions for Enjin, let alone the Enjin team.
Why you keep repeating this? Shows you just want to keep discussing anything else but the fact that Enjin ain't a scam.

This thread was setup by Cryptodevil because there were two issues, 3 people with no online profiles and Enjin network traffic stats.
Now what? You are trying to convince them to change their plans?

Come on grow up and let it be. Look at your own project, uses Counterparty LOL Such blockchain token, much development!
Time to step aside and go back to your own business. I wonder if anyone else is of the same opinion...

This all started because of you. Are you obsessed with Enjin, are you having wet dreams about it?

You just read the OP you didn't read the team comments, there is very good proof the team is real.
Just read the thread properly don't just read one side of the story.

It's all in this thread, nice and easy and well explained. And no a professional of even 20 years doesn't have to have an online account if they care about their privacy or they don't need it.
And no, these 3 people have Enjin's own forum accounts, Slack accounts, etc, with thousands of posts.
There's even a picture with Lilia holding a "Hello Bitcointalk" sign that matches the picture on the website as well as videos with her voice from 7 years ago.

The Enjin team said above they will be doing a hangout with their team members so everyone can see them live.
Hope that puts a stop to this nonsense. It's becoming silly now.

The signature campaign is still running because nobody believe the accusations, simple, and because the team has proved they are untrue even though there are still attempts at dragging this along.
People are not stupid, a successful company that exists since 9 years, that has millions of users, hundreds of gaming communities and it's one of the leaders in the space... It's not a scam.

Maybe you should look at the website before assuming: https://enjin.com

I did read the whole thread.

Explain then why this Lilia woman is a social media expert, but has no social media whatsoever? According to you, they don't need it. Oh wait. Their whole job revolves around social media! Best case scenario, she has been operating under a fake name. Worst case scenario, she is just a hired actor.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone. I'm just saying that this ICO for everything BS needs to be stopped. If they can provide proof that they are all part of the team plus all competent at what they do(e.g. proof that lilia is a social media expert) then awesome. I'll wish them luck with the ICO. But if the community decides to just give up criticizing ICOs for scammy or dodgy behaviour then people are just going to get scammed, and these shit ICOs are just going to keep popping up.

Why are you defending them? Look at your post history. You literally posted like 15 shitposts on offtopic in june and then come back alive and all of a sudden defending Enjincoin with long essays.

I could say the same about you, why you are so convinced that Lilia needs to fake her identity? LOL
Are you an alt of one of the people accusing Enjin? I doubt you read the whole thread otherwise you could clearly see accusations are baseless.

And the team will do a hangout so worry not, the mystery will be solved. (If anyone still has doubts)

Hopefully the Enjin team and Lilia don't mind me posting her pics, again below.

Enjin's website picture:
https://i.imgur.com/x8MBVVg.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/Ddx0j7i.png

Lilia's hello to the forum:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/81/20170810_162322.jpg

They look very, very similar don't they? Maybe it's me only that sees the resemblance?

PS: I got so involved in this that I'd like to see it end eventually, everyone satisfied with Enjin's proofs and NEMGUN leaving them in peace. That's all.

You clearly did not. Read my reply to Cryptodevil regarding who handles our marketing and social media. Go on http://www.enjin.com/forums and ask who Lilia is. Go ahead, I dare you. Thousands of users know who she is on Enjin, or are you going to assume that they are fake too now? Btw she is on linkedin now: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lilia-pritchard-30b2b2148/

Your bias is clearly showing and to even suggest pausing the signature campaign is downright ridiculous (stop hurting the community with your flawed mindset). Don't fall into the Nemgum mental trap of delusions, or is he paying you too? The more truth that is uncovered by this community the more clarity is opened towards who the real scammers are here: Nemgum, cryptodevil, lauda you should be ashamed of your actions and corrupt attitude. You now only bring toxicity to this community and allowing the real scammer get away. Anyone who spends any time reading this thread and the other threads Nemgum defaced will come to this conclusion. It's obvious and evident now.

Nengum, why did you repeatedly ask Witek to have our C# developer help you develop the NVO project? I suspect the NVO project is in deep deep trouble, no recent updates, no code commits, all you do is spend your entire day trolling and bullying people online. Focus on being a positive member of this community instead of just an empty shell of hate. Get over the rejection, not everyone wants to work with someone like you.

You are insulting by pretending that i pay people, lauda, cryptodevil, even this guy, i never heard about. As a community member everyone checks for the different project, it is the proff of everyone's experience on the forum, for enjin you had to buy an account who was supposed to post images, and now you play the different accounts, it is ridiculous, and disordered.
Lauda and Cryptodevil are some of the forum's pioneers, Lauda is in D2, it is not that easy to get that rank in bitcointalk, and have been a moderator in this forum, Lauda have a long experience of the crypto world, he is one of the operators of the IRC channel #bitcoin to let you have an idea about his importance in the crypto world.

Regarding your developers, i never asked for your help for NVO, we don't need it and NVO is going well, you want to compare our projects ? even the most famous exchanges wants to be decentralized because of the regulation and all the problems brought with it. NVO works the same way, a fully decentralized project, like Bitcoin. While Enjin is an ERC20 token working for a centralized company, we spoke about the price of the TOS, I gave an approximation as it is not my domain, and you corrected me on that point and i agreed with you. On my side, on a decentralized point of view, you don't need a TOS when you download a decentralized client, as you don't need TOS when you download the Bitcoin client.

I asked to know the languages used by your developer in order to give guidances about the right technology to use, to fork, libraries, daemons communications ... I was even ready to support financially this developer with my personal funds as long as it is for a good decentralized project. As everyone in this forum, or people who know well the cryptos will tell you that it is far better to work with a fully decentralized platform instead of a token, or a semi-centralized process.

Have a look at NVO : https://youtu.be/Tgb5Z1Zb5OM

I made this video for you, we are far above in the technology and advancement, you want to list an ERC20 token on your centralized platform, so you ask people to help you list your token, on your platform, it is totally banal. Even compared to your competitors, other gaming platforms.

Faceit : http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/faceit.com
Enjin : http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/enjin.com

You can check the difference, i am not talking about steam, in this case, enjin is looking for the game developers, and the reverse. Enjin said that it took advantage of the Minecraft hype which explains the growth, but at the same time, you have a lot of games with about 2M users, which means that it is not reliable for the game developers, they will better sign with platforms who can bring 20M users to their game.
You had 2M unique visitors over a month, the question is, how many simultaneous gamers are using your platform, or, do you have enough simultaneous players in order to attract the interest of the next game developers.

The coin who have to be used to buy items and other stuff have a too high price. You can check faceit who already have experience with that, gloves worth 5$ are sold for 10k face, which sets the price around 0.0005$. And as i said, they have a better experience in that field, needless to mention that your users will need ethereum in their wallet which complicates it more.
Since you decided to move from 66% to 80%, it rises the collected amount to around 32M, your 20% are not included in the calculation i think you should list it on yobit and forget about it, it is the most expencive token listing i ever seen in my life.

Understand that this community have a brain. I don't advise you to insult reputable members of the community, you bought an account, you are new, it is not a problem, but don't insult people.

I forgot to mention, i though about Stratis because of your c# dev, it have nothing to do with Solidity (ethereum). Once again, i never needed your developer for NVO, maybe you understand now why i said Stratis, regarding bitcoin, it is in C++, most of the c# devs know about c++.

Let me make 3 last important points on this thread. If you wish to talk further about Enjin Coin, I welcome anyone here to join us in the official thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2042871.0).
Let’s start with traffic comparison to put things into perspective:

Point #1 Enjin is 5 times bigger in traffic than Bitcointalk.org:

See the Evidence here:

Bitcointalk https://www.quantcast.com/bitcointalk.org?qcLocale=en_US (US RANK 5011)
vs
Enjin https://www.quantcast.com/p-e2f9QTuI7ynec (US RANK 1003)
and that is not counting the mobile traffic we receive since launching our Mobile apps here (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.enjin.mobile&hl=en) and here (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/enjin-community-for-gamers/id1103331595?mt=8).

OP how do you think we grew to be 5 times bigger than Bitcointalk (the largest crypto forum in the world)? Everyone on the team worked hard to make it happen.

Let’s move on to more facts:

* 18.6 million gamers
* 250,000 Gaming Communities
* 54.1 Million Global views in last 30 days (Jul 13 2017 to Aug 11 2017)

Check our Features here: https://www.enjin.com/features
Check the communities that use Enjin: https://www.enjin.com/communities

Point #2 Enjin Coin does not need Enjin. Enjin is just a huge supplementary bonus to Enjin Coin. An established business of 9 years and provides Enjin Coin a huge gaming market to initiate instant adoption in. Enjin Coin and the Enjin Coin Platform is for all gaming entities and will expand far beyond Enjin itself.

Our whitepaper defines exactly why and how we’re making this crowdsale. It will be up to investors to judge us on that merit. We’re very confident in our ability to execute and with extensive experience in this industry, we know what problems to solve.

Point #3 Enjin is bringing Cryptocurrency to the masses, focusing on world-wide adoption, to make it easily accessible for your average gamer and gives them the benefits of the entire ecosystem. We have been building features and tools for 9 years, we are solving real problems. We don’t expect everyone to understand the intricacies of a gaming community, which is why our white paper has detailed some of the problems that this will solve, and yet OP did not properly read this, or even ONCE discussed any of the features of Enjin Coin. Enjin Coin solves problems within the gaming space and adds on an amazing adoption plan (Enjin) that most ICOs do not have.

If you have criticism that is legitimate, we are more than happy to discuss these and gain knowledge and insight from a respected community as this, but at this stage, it appears nothing but a few members ganging up because one person didn’t have his opinion taken on board and he’s throwing a tantrum (and was rewarded for his toxic behavior). We would like to see the real side of Bitcointalk please.

Let’s understand what Enjin is proposing, and complete proper due diligence, including visiting the links that have been provided throughout this thread. Stop throwing around and repeating loose accusations that have no merit and have all been completely destroyed.

The team at Enjin will be working hard to achieve our development plan, and we look forward to interacting with real authentic members of this community.

@CryptoDevil: Not only is it bullying the members of the signature campaign, but such a post is highly advantageous for your cause as it is just an open threat that is meant to deter people from joining the campaign and encourage them to leave the campaign. I can tell you right now that you would not dare to give negative trust to any of the members without giving them a proper warning and proving that Enjin coin is truly a scam. If you did give members negative trust without a proper warning, that would cause a backlash in the Bitcointalk community and destroy your reputation. And if these allegations that you are working with Nemgun to destroy Enjin coin’s reputation (mind you I am not saying that these accusations are true; they may be as baseless as your accusation against Enjin coin) then this is evidenced in this post. So to prevent people from suspecting that Enjin coin is a scam coin (let’s say that Enjin coin is not a scam coin as it has not been proven yet), John70 deleted the post. Moreover, I would also like to point out that there is no rule against deleting posts in a moderated thread. Everything that John70 did is completely within the forum parameters. So I have no idea why you have chosen to charge user “John70” with negative trust for that. I don’t that is fair on the Enjin coin team.

I agree with you. I prefer to be neutral on this thread, because these accusations have not been proven so i am skeptic.
Deleting posts is pretty shady however always (if the messages are not spammy), and i hope enjincoin team stop doing this, because it is not very liked on the forum.
I personally think that Cryptodevil is kind of threating people for the wrong reasons. I hope the situation gets solved quickly, so i can continue with peace of mind.

Hey guys, I'd like to input my two cents. You may have seen on the front page one of my forum posts embedded in someone's deleted post. I am an active user of Enjin (though not nearly as much as I used to be- more on that below) and also one of the first to express my doubts about the project.

Now, from an investing standpoint- I think Enjincoin is a terrible investment. I don't think Enjin will be able to market or even make their userbase (who are gamers and children, not crypto enthusiasts) acknowledge Enjincoin. I think their plan for adoption by giving Enjincoin to communities is going to fail- I think many communities are going to have buyback programs for the Enjincoins they hand out, where players can trade back the coin they earn for incentives within the community- thus defeating the purpose of having players actually use and trade the coin.

With that being said, I do not think it's fair at all to consider this project a scam. While I'm personally cynically on the need for an Enjincoin to achieve these purposes, I think the team of this project is more than legitimate, and I think the product they set to create is easily tangible and will come to fruition. I could not say this about 95%+ of recent and current ICO projects.

In regards to the dropping playerbase, I can attest firsthand to, in my opinion, what is leading to this decline. The people who used to play Minecraft are not the same as the ones who play now, and those who play now play differently. What I mean is, all the servers millions of people were playing 3-7 years ago all shut down, and they all used enjin. To give you a firsthand example, this is the enjin community for a server I primarily played on for many years. Notice how the home page has over a million impressions. Thousands of people played on here. http://thesavagerealms.enjin.com/ It's been down since 2014 I believe. This isn't a standalone incident. All the popular servers (a majority of whom used Enjin) have been overtaken by a more casual brand of Minecraft, one which does not really sustain any forum activity. Beyond this, the few popular servers modeled after the old ones I've run across have implemented their own dedicated forums. This can be attributed to more professional servers (popular minecraft servers make millions of dollars, which has translated into more professionals being on board server teams) which have the resources to build their own websites and forums. With that being said, there are still popular servers that use Enjin. Here is one I play on from time to time: http://www.dungeonrealms.net/home

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that although I'm very skeptical of Enjincoin from a financial standpoint, I'm not sure if it's fair to accuse it of being a scam. This is a company with millions of users that has been around for about a decade. I'm not sure if that could be said about any other ICO team to date.

Here's proof of my enjin account, which I've been using for maybe 6 or so years: https://www.enjin.com/profile/1221375/wall?sesstoken=7b4aa4bda749fb6730c6d73e0180a09f

Hi jeffthebaker,

Thank you for the feedback, and using Enjin :) Let me respond to your points.

We want to make a useful token that isn't just hoarded but one that can be used, for things like virtual game items, privilege / access tokens, community rewards and as a currency to trade for other virtual items. There's a lot of "hodling" and "betting" already done in other cryptocurrencies - we want to focus on the challenge of giving ENJ users and other gamers thousands of different ways to use the token.

There are endless possibilities in gaming! It's finally an ecosystem where cryptocurrency can be used practically. The key to adoption will be providing easy to use toolsets and platforms to everyone. The blockchain currencies for gamers haven't even scratched the surface imho, which is why we're creating Enjin Coin. The system of minting items with reserve value in ENJ is incredibly flexible.

Here is a fun example. We've recently partnered with IEBC (the Integrated Engineering
Blockchain Consortium) to explore what can be done with Minecraft (Industrialcraft) + Enjin Coin items to create simulations of the engineering process. IEBC is publishing some articles in the coming weeks describing how using Enjin Coin with plugins like this can create a process to incentivize bright future engineers who were born and raised in massively-networked online environments. They believe that these hive networks of players can do it better than the archaic 8-level management hierarchies in engineering. It reminds me of the book Ender's Game :) https://www.enjin.com/partners/iebc

We are reaching out to many game developers with the goal of finding cool new gameplay mechanics that would be well-suited for Enjin Coin game assets. Just imagine the possibilities in bringing your inventory across to different games and servers and having some continuity. It might sound like a long-shot when you think of game currencies as simply "buying vanity items with coins", but we see a lot more potential here.

Regarding ages, our largest active demographic is in the 18-25 age group (2017) and there is a very large number of users in the over-25 age groups. These groups would be very open to cryptocurrency and are usually technically-savvy.

The Enjin Coin platform and toolsets will be integrated into keys parts of Enjin (mainly the rewards system, forum votes, automations and Virtual Stores) and won’t present any hurdles in getting started. We want to make it fun and incredibly easy to use in the end, so anyone can start minting and managing custom tokens and items.

Finally, while you may see some buy-back initially for game server incentives, this is actually a good thing. It is the seeds for an economy. We're not simply randomly distributing coins to communities, we're going to be working closely with game developers and game communities to build interesting gameplay mechanics, rewards, and items using Enjin Coin. The good ideas will stick, and we can continue developing features and frameworks around what works.

If you have any further comments or ideas, let’s continue in the official thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2042871.0).

Disagreed. You obviously aren't aware of how the trust system works nor how similar cases in the past were resolved. He could have just proceeded, after being censored, to leave a negative rating to all participating members. However, he was kind enough to post a warning first.

Relevance? This seems like a provocative statement, which makes the situation worse.

No, it most certainly would not. His reputation ain't fragile enough for a single mistake, especially not this "for profit project" to destroy it.

Don't censor valid questions and criticism, especially not from DT members.

I chose not to follow through with my warning to participants of the signature campaign, at this time, because the Enjincoin team were sufficiently pressured by the existence of this thread and being marked themselves that we are at least getting some responses from them about the issues concerning the credibility of the claims they are making. They were warned not to continue deleting my posts in their moderated announcement thread and they chose to ignore that warning, hence the action which was taken to bring them back to the table was, and is, justified.

As for idiotic ad-hominems being thrown at me about why I don't rate [insert sketchy ICO here], too, if anybody has legitimate concerns and evidence which would warrant such I will be more than happy to take a look. In any event, accusing me of wrongdoing based on not exposing all crypto scams in existence, or by having an ulterior motive for personal gain in targeting specific ones, is just vapid nonsense. If the issues I am raising about an ICO and its team are legitimate then they need to be addressed, irrespective of the emotional backlash being hurled around this thread.

Let me repeat what I stated in the OP, I do not consider this ICO a scam, per se, as Enjin is clearly a platform which has been in existence for several years. The fact is that red flags concerning the size and scope of Enjin Pty Ltd, such as their claims towards the number of full-time employees they have and the profitability, or otherwise, of the 'many millions' in sales they claim to make each month, justify being called out because similar ICOs, equally conducted over a very short time-period, have fraudulently misrepresented their size and scope through utilising the names and profiles of 'employees' who were absolutely not who they were being represented as by the ICO team and neither was the underlying commercial entity. This is why I have brought up the matter of the employees and the stats showing the 75% drop in visitors across their network.

As has been said by somebody else in this thread, and something I agree with, this ICO would be a terrible investment for many reasons, but I have not raised this thread because of that. I have done so because the red flags I mentioned show a high risk that the promoters of this ICO are being dishonest about the true financial state of their company. Their actions in response to my questioning was alarming and constituted another red flag.

It is down to them to prove the legitimacy of their business operation, as they are the ones asking the public for many millions in investment.

With that in mind, there is one very simple way for them to validate their supposed size, scope and viability, and that is to provide audited accounts, or a statement from their auditors, which would serve to prove the size, scope and viability they claim. "We don't have to" isn't a rebuttal. The fact that you are promoting this ICO on the claimed strength of your business operation actually raises a serious issue which does not affect other ICOs for which the investment is designed to fund a project from scratch, namely, that you potentially could already be running at a loss, or have unfunded liabilities.

So, given that fact, the curious matter of the non-existent web footprint of some of your employees outside of your own platform, plus the proven loss in userbase for the last three years, the persistent claims your team make about the many millions in sales you are turning over in the run-up to what is a very short period of time to launch an ICO do not sound credible. As I already said, if you were making good profit on those many millions in sales you wouldn't need to be running an ICO at all to fund this project.

Let your auditors show your business is viable, is of the size and scope you claim and does not have any unfunded liabilities and you're good to go.

@witek I preferred to leave you at the weekend so that you can reflect on what is happening, and question yourself. To reply to your previous message, you still made the mistake of diluting information which is dishonest, you wanted to compare the traffic of enjin to that of bitcointalk, both platforms are entirely different. Bitcointalk is a forum, Enjin is a gaming platform. You could have also compared the traffic of a big bank to Enjin's traffic and see that even if Enjin has a better traffic, the bank generates real revenue, whereas you do not.

I preferred to compare Enjin to other game platforms, Enjin is almost twice lower in rank compared to others.

I have a question to ask you, you want to have the game developers use enjin in order to launch their games on the Enjin platform, tell me about a single profitable game that consulted you and that you launched and especially who is in the TOP 50 of the MMOs (I did not say the first 10). Because you say that game developers will consult Enjin in order to launch their product while you do not have enough traffic.

What investors will gain apart from a rapid devaluation of the price. Your company works with hypes, we understand that you have taken advantage of the hype of minecraft to gain in traffic and users, you want to do the same thing with ethereum to make you money, listing a token for 40-50 $ M is way too much, and it is your own token and your own platform.

Why don't you implement ethereum directly as you will have to do it regardless of the token as you will need node communications with Ethereum, it would have been more interesting for you to implement cryptos directly and bring them on your platform, and then, develop your smart contracts and token, it would have been more professional and adapted. While you go directly for a crowdsale and token, which shows the wish for easy gains which is verifiable.

The loss will be covered by the tokens distribution to your partners in order to help with the token adoption.

I will give you the example of a smart person, have a look at bitdice.me They are excellent, very fluid, you may find 50-100 people connected simultaneously, and yet they have a current profit of 2300 BTC, they have a Reputation on the forum. After gradually adding the cryptos to the platform they decided to launch an ICO to transform the platform and evolve to a new form, but they have a long experience in cryptos.

In the end, this ICO serves only to your team without any real counterpart to the investors.

I understand you’re coming from the angle that everything is a potential scam unless proven otherwise and I do agree that a good significant amount of ICOs fall within that range and should be questioned by the community and contributors. I do find this thread unfair to our hard working team as it is categorized under the ‘scam’ forum category and they don’t deserve to be labeled that way.

In regards to team size, clearly a platform such as Enjin requires at least some developers, marketing and support staff.

We’re not listing a massive team here. We listed one marketing person (Lilia:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/lilia-pritchard-30b2b2148), one qa / support person (Chris), 1 network / security admin person (Brad) and the rest of the team are developers.

We have even more staff that help with support and community management and other various tasks that are not listed, as they will not be involved in the Enjin Coin platform.

To assume that Enjin can operate without even a single person in those critically required positions is unreasonable and is not a realistic red flag for a service of our size.

I believe you misunderstood the claim we made regarding the ‘many millions’, so let me clarify:

Enjin provides an ecommerce module (similar to shopify) called DonationCraft and Enjin Store. This virtual store module is used by many thousands of clients (gaming communities) to sell virtual goods to players, here is an example of store from a 1 million+ user community on Enjin called Mineplex:

http://www.mineplex.com/shop

You can find many more examples by looking at the community list here:

http://www.enjin.com/communities

This store module features a number of payment gateways, such as Paypal, Coinbase, Stripe, etc.. and will feature the future Enjin Coin Payment Gateway. The combined USD value that all store modules process on a monthly basis is in the millions. We do not receive this money directly, we provide the store system, tools and gateway integrations that processes this flow of funds including the custom CMS / Forum system.

In regards to Enjin, we provide website plans for gaming clients, this is how Enjin Pte Ltd generates revenue and has done so for the last 8 years:

https://www.enjin.com/pricing

Enjin Coin will be deeply integrated into Enjin as the first step in our adoption plans and will allow anyone to create a fully gamified website, forum and store with virtual goods creation and management on the blockchain for the key reasons we outlined in our whitepaper:

https://enjincoin.io/enjincoin_whitepaper.pdf


I’d like to make this clear, we are not promoting this ICO on the strength of our business, but rather on the strength of our smart cryptocurrency concept as defined in our whitepaper (https://enjincoin.io/enjincoin_whitepaper.pdf). The ability to ignite mass adoption on the Enjin network is a huge bonus that we hold, that seldom any other ICOs hold.

I find it somewhat ridiculous and utterly unfair to create this requirement for clearing up the false ‘scam’ accusation, and should rather be requested in our main thread to boost contributor confidence (with this one removed).

Saying that, I don’t see an issue in providing a statement to any potential contributor or anyone interested from an auditor that verifies that Enjin Pte Ltd is a profitable viable business and does not have any unfunded liabilities. Please check my PM to you regarding this.

I hope we can finally clear this up and I welcome your future posts in our main thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2042871.0).

But this thread is in the Scam Accusations section... that will necessarily make people think Enjin is accused of being a scam, and it already has, despite your stated desire to the contrary. If the goal was just to cast doubt on their ICO model and the viability of it as an investment (which would be totally fair and legitimate), it would have made more sense to go about this differently. Why jump to calling something a scam when you could just say that you think it won't succeed, which is a categorically different accusation?

There has been some misunderstandings and some posts were removed by us which caused the situation to escalate. I hope to clear this up, and we'll be showcasing our development and code progress in the other thread soon.

Following discussions outside of this forum, whereby I was provided with reasonable proof showing Enjin Pte Ltd., Singapore, was considered a going-concern as at Financial Year-End June 2016 (2017 Accounts not being due yet), albeit with the clarification that the six named staff, Josh Woelfel, Lilia Pritchard, Vyacheslav Volkov, Brad Bayliss, Chris Hirasawa and Evan Lindsay, are full-time contractors as opposed to permanent salaried employees, I am satisfied that the concerns initially raised have now been sufficiently addressed and will be removing the negative trust ratings accordingly.

This is not an endorsement of either Enjin Pte Ltd. nor the Enjincoin ICO. The matter concerned ensuring that the project was being described correctly and in terms of the two specific issues of financial health and employees, this has now been addressed.

I will be locking this thread to give people time to view the resolution and will then delete it.