Bitcoin Forum

Where do you store most of your coins for long term storage?

Just trying to get a feeling of where most users store there coins.

no blockchain.info?

Part of my key is recorded multiple places, another part is memorized.  I use blockchain.info in "watch only" mode to keep track of my offline wallet.

Which option do I choose for an offline Armory wallet with paper backups?

addedid choose either
On a usb drive stored somewhere else
or
On a paper wallet

Brain wallet plus encrypted backup on multiple online services.
Needs no trust, is resistant to fire and doesn't have a singular point of failure.

My Armory offline wallet sits on an offline computer, not a USB drive or paper. I only use the USB drive to carry signed transactions back and forth.

I pursue a mixed strategy. Checkboxes would be better.

Private keys in a TrueCrypt encrypted file container backed up at several locations with the password to the container stored at several other locations.

Private keys encrypted with GPG in a ASCII text file. File stored in multiple locations. GPG password in brain with dead man's switch.

Yea, sorry, there are just alot of bases to cover. If you have a suggestion feel free to tell me and I will add it

On a paper wallet printed by Piper (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210701.0) with the keys backed up on a USB stick

Of course NONE of the above.

First of all why the HELL would you store your long term savings with an exchange or online wallet, thus relying on someone else not running with your money (or not getting hacked, or not messing up or getting shut down or whatever).

Second, why would you rely on only ONE option. Bitcoins can be backed up, you know.

I use a dedicated, offline Ubuntu Live on USB. I generated a bunch of private keys with a local copy of bitaddress.org, and stored them in a truecrypt container. I backed up this container on several places (sent to some webmail addresses, on some online storage services, and copied to several USB disks and flash drives). And I imported all the addresses (not the private keys) into a watch-only blockchain.info wallet. So I can check my balance and add funds there, and only need to boot the Ubuntu Live environment if I need to take some money out.

Well, the singular point of failure is you being unable to reproduce your password (due to forgetting it, or dying, or some accident causing brain trauma, etc).

I personally used some kinda time lock construction for this scenario - if I show no sign of life for 3+ months, the password for my truecrypt container will be emailed to my family. Or well, part of it, including an explanation how to get the rest that only they will understand.

There is another option missing: Casascius Coins ^^

Dont make yourself a target by answering this question...  ::)

Paper wallet for cold storage and 20 btc on a bootable USB stick that I use to buy things that I need/want (like petty cash account).

Both are bad ideas imho: totally vulnerable to theft, burglary, fire or otherwise loss of coins. And in case of Casascius Coins: can't back them up.

JPEG photos of a paper wallet, hidden amongst family and pet photo album archives. Even if you were staring the photo it wouldn't be immediately obvious there was a private key on it. I guess this could be regarded as steganography in its most basic form.

A neat idea would be a wallet privitekey in a picture of colors. for example the types of pictures where you have the green line, then the black line, and so on. Cant think of what its called tho.

It's actually probably a bit dumb to say anything about one's BTC storage methods...and a bit rude to ask.

That said, I've spouted off about my techniques off and one.  Now I regret doing so to some extent.

Use multiple copies of paper wallets/backups, store in multiple secure places. In case of theft, it'll take a while for the thieves to crack the safe, giving you time to move the money elsewhere.

Every btc I mined or purchased through 2011 and 2012 (with the exception of the few I keep on my keychain - about $2000 worth) is in cold storage. Now you might guess that I have more than just a few in a paper wallet. You don't really think I wrote it once on a cocktail napkin and threw it in the kitchen junk drawer do you? LOL

Now, if etotheipi dies, they discontinue Armory, it is no longer available anywhere on the web and I lose my copy I'm probably screwed but I can't really see that happening.

You can also store a bulk of them in assets. A keylogger probably isn't going to care about your 2K ASICMINER shares.

Here are some places I use as part of a highly redundant Bitcoin backup strategy.

1) 3.5in floppy disks
2) 5.25in floppy disks
3) The hard drives of multiple computers from the most recent to some very old computers including a 30 year old 286, and an old Pentium 1 computer running Windows 3.1. The latter is the only computer running a version of Microsoft Windows that I use for anything related to Bitcoin.
4) Removable USB 3 hard drives
5) 1) + 4) stored in a bank safety deposit box
6) Encrypt the file and store it on multiple email and cloud services in different jurisdictions worldwide.

The idea is to be able to recover the Bticoins under many different scenarious from the mundane hard drive failure to a disaster affecting one's local community or country where not only is one's home wiped out but also one's bank safety deposit box etc.

2) is one of my favorites and is particularly suitable for storing unencrypted private keys. The idea is that if the floppy is stolen one has time to empty the wallet while an attacker is still figuring out how to read the 5.25in floppy disk. To further slow down an attacker  one can hide the floppy containing the Bitcoin keys among many old 5.25in floppy disks forcing an attacker to have to read multiple old floppy disks in order to find the golden needle in the obsolete digital haystack.

I think it's probably a good idea to encrypt everything.

Now I know your age because of the 5.25in floppy disks and the old 286. You're somewhere between 50 and 200 years old.  ;D

This is for the most part very true but there is one senario where it is not namely estate planning.  The idea is to make your Bitcoins available to the executor of your estate after one death but not make them avalible to anyone while one is still alive. I have given this some thought to this and came with the following concept. Store the decyption keys on one or more 5.25in floppy disk(s) and place the floppy disks in one or more bank safety deposit boxes. Advise one's executor and family members where the floppies are stored.

Now after ones death the bank safety deposit box(s) are opened and the executor of the estate gets access to the floppy disks.  A yes it will take some effort and time for the executor put together the hardware and software in order to read the old 5.25in floppy disks quite likely a few weeks; however in this senario this is not a real problem since it can take months to probate an estate in any case.

One the other hand if the bank safety deposit box is compromised while one is still alive, then the obsolete 5.25in floppy disks will slow down an attacker long enough to allow the owner of the Bitcoins to empty the wallet before the attacker can read the old floppy disks even though the attacker has the floppy in their possession.  

Living to age 200 would be kind of cool however that means having to store Bitcoin keys in a replica of the steam powered analytical engine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_engine). Of course with an ample supply of super heated steam one can scald an attacker who tries to steal the Bitcoins.

This is ridiculous and probably a bad idea (think bit-rot) but I've thought that storing BTC on a cassette tape like the old TRS-80 computers could use would be really slick.

http://oldcomputers.net/pics/trs80-i.jpg

Another sketchy but interesting method would be to use the number of grains of sand in an hourglass as your private key. Include some instructions - say number of grains = n, hash (n + 5), n - 7 times with SHA-256.

This is even more generations back. The question is how to get the data onto the cassette tape.  Find a computer that can read both 5.25in floppies and cassete tape?.  Serial port connection? An old dailup modem? A 286 can read 3.5in floppy disks and so can the most modern computers via a USB floppy drive.  As for 5.25in floppies many computers under 10 years old support the drives.

Bitrot is a concern with any technology both old and new. Actually CDs are among the worst for this. The answer is an active approach of renewing and testing the backups on a regular basis and do not just rely on one kind of technology. Multiple technologies from different times is best.

I think that's a really good idea and in a way exactly what I used to do before I started using a paper wallet. I had a 4gb Hitachi Microdrive CF that I used in my HP hx4700 pda. The Microdrive was perfect for the pda but will not fit in a standard CF reader because its too wide. I used cheap IDE-CF adapter plugged into the motherboard to load the wallet and stored the Microdrive offsite. My thinking was even if they stole the Microdrive they would have to figure out something to read it with and the only thing it fits in are out of date pda's and cameras which won't read the wallet. That would give me time to discover it missing and transfer funds.

what service do you use?

also would that service if online have access to passwords then????

Currently, I'm using InstaWallet to store my Bitcoin wealth. If by chance my coins are returned, I converting them to gold via Coinabul. Once I get my gold, I'm trading it to Dank for weed. Then I'm going to sell the weed to... I haven't thought that part out yet, but I'm sure it'll be profitable.

I have some at Bitcoin Fog. I have no gains in letting my BTC being traced so the BTC I wanna store for an extended period I just add to Bitcoin Fog.

The rest of my BTC I have in blockchain.info and Bitcoin-Qt wallets for spending and gambling :)

Armory at the moment - off-line.  I have no plans to open that wallet until such time as one of the hardware wallets is successfully implemented.

Once there's a selection of hardware wallets from which to choose, the plan is to have three:  home, car and safety deposit box.

The main thing I'm waiting on for the hardware wallets is the ability to hold the same wallet on multiple devices that can be updated easily.  I'm unsure that the technology is quite there, yet.

Engraved on a tungsten block, dipped in hot wax, using a plastic container that is encased in cement.

Really? Great idea if the sun becomes a supernova the tungston doesnt melt :)

This is a really cool idea for a backup!

haha yea i thought it would be neat


Just to put everyones fears to ease. my main use in this poll is a few reasons

• figuring out where I should store my personal coins
• am looking into opening a service that will store users coins for them
• figuring out stats for the amout of users who would use my service

I used bitcointalk.org itself to backup my wallet import format key to the Internet forever and ever. Just string together the first letter used in each of my 51 first posts. Argh! You tricked me into giving up my key. Ah well, back to paper wallets. :)

PS: https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com is what I developed to safekeep my coins offline. I invested a lot of brainstorming & real-world testing with regards to tamper-resistance & long-term storage, waterproofing, etc.

I have all mine in instawallet and Bitcoin savings & trust. Around 2700 BTC.

Keylogger doesn't care, but it will get your password to your bitfunder account. So therefore, use 2FA. And try not to get any keyloggers by doing something stupid like clicking on .exe's sent by friends.

Blockchain.info baby!

What do you guys think about the Sandisk memory vault or WORM(Write Once Read Many) SD card? Both last 100 years.
http://www.sandisk.com/products/usb/memory-vault/ (http://www.sandisk.com/products/usb/memory-vault/)
http://www.ssd.gb.com/Products/SanDisk_Industrial_and_Enterprise/End_Of_Life/SD_Worm_Card/index.php (http://www.ssd.gb.com/Products/SanDisk_Industrial_and_Enterprise/End_Of_Life/SD_Worm_Card/index.php)

You can get a 1gb WORM SD card for $13.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SanDisk-1GB-WORM-SD-Memory-Card-/400485010572 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SanDisk-1GB-WORM-SD-Memory-Card-/400485010572)

That's cool, I'd get a few and put armory backups.

This might sound silly but I wrote the hex keys on 4x6 and put them in sealed manilla envelopes.

Next opportunity one is going into my safe deposit box and one (identical keys) are going into parents. That way if I die they can access them before waiting for the legal stuff to give them access to my box.

No QR code, no encryption, just written with a quality pen. Ink allowed to dry properly before putting the 4x6 into envelope.

Once they big enough, I'll look into that cool thing I saw where you can create a transaction that requires multiple keys to spend and put the bulk of it into that kind of transaction just to reduce the highly unlikely odds of someone getting my coins via collision.

Ummm so I bought 3 of them and I think they are fake.

I was able to write and erase, format, etc.. WTF? Erasing kinda makes sense if the space keeps decreasing. But it didn't, format brought it all back.

Help anyone? I don't think WORM needs to be initialized.

Coinlockr.com

Most answers have revolved around hidden files, USB keys, scraps of paper, passwords etc. But what happens when you die?

Let's assume that you have some significant wealth in BTC, and that you would like your spouse or children to inherit it. How do you create a wallet that is both secure against theft but can still actually be spent by authorised individuals after your death?

My current thinking is a brain wallet saved on a USB key, deposited with an attorney. Give the password to next of kin, make sure they remember it but don't explain what it's for.

Actully I think the best way would be a private key encrypted with pass guardian and have the keys distributed to trusted people.

deadmansswitch.net can email for you when you die. The free version sends an email 2 months from now.

Alternatively, you can use google's inactive account manager.

PGP / GPG encrypt so no one else can read it. Your heirs better know how to use it.

You can create a bicoin transaction that will only be spent some time in the future. So what you do is:

1) Create a transaction that will send all your coins to a spouse or children two years from now.
2) Two years later, before the time runs out, move all the coins to another address, and if needed, create yet another delayed transaction.
3) Since the coins no longer exist in the address used by the original delayed transaction, that transaction will fail and be rejected by the system.

Rinse/Repeat.

That's a really great solution if you leave them on an active network. How do you do that and not expose yourself to risk?

You aren't leaving them on an active network. All you do is create the transaction, sign it, and broadcast it. You can create and sign it on an offline storage computer.

Ok but don't they need to be available at the time of the send?

No. That's why it's a transaction that will spend at some time in the future. You just create it, telling it that it can only be included in a block at some time in the future, and sign it once, and the network holds it until it's ready to be included and confirmed. You're not required for anything else.

That's a great idea. I've been looking for a solution to this dilemma for a while now. Let me ask you one more question about this. If I wanted to rip someone off then I could sell them a paper wallet that will effectively be worthless an hour or two from the time I sell it because I can set the coins to automatically just return to me. Correct?

It's not a secret, they can see the future transaction. And anyone taking a private key better sweep it instantly.

I just bought a Piper printer

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/299052466/piper-a-hardware-based-paper-wallet-printer-and-mo

But not if you're meeting in a public place without access.

Then you should assume you got 0, future transaction or not.

What about using steganography tool to hide your private keys inside an image and then post it on Facebook ? :)

I can't wait for wide spread adoption. They'll be so many virgin sheep to fleece. lol

Currently on my main computer but if I ever got enough to worry about I'd store them both on a laptop and maybe a USB as well, I think USBs are too easy to lose though.

Good luck after the server recompiles the file

This is a really nice elegant solution! I like it a lot. But it sounds quite error-prone to manually create these transactions, so now I'm thinking about writing a utility that can handle it for me...

Naturally it requires one's next-of-kin to actually have a Bitcoin address already and know how to use it.

I do not consider magnetic media to be resistant enough to bit-rot.

Paper and ink has demonstrated that it can last for a very long time, if protected from fire and water.  But that is a big if.

Chiseled in stone appears to be the best long-term storage media.

And even simple format changes can help obfuscate.

Not this:
1Jktvue4dJMhfeX6v6rydJdrcSbGuHXbr5

But this:
1Jk
tvue
4dJM
hfeX6v6
ryd
JdrcSbG
uHXb
r5

I would hide a hundred usb copies around the city.

with this results: looks like hackers and scammers will have a great future...  ::)

What's your solution smart ass

As I said before doing the smartest thing would be using passgurdian on a private key or multiple private keys. Then distributing them to multiple people. So for example you can set it so that you have 10 keys and 6 are needed to decrypt the whole thing. so you could give out 8 of them or even just 5 of them. then keep 2 hidden somewhere and then put one or 2 on your will or something. and then one on a deadmans switch.

Oh come on, can you imagine Mr. Average Joe Dumbass doing that? Everyone wants a large corporation to accept Bitcoin so what they're holding is worth more. The problem is that large corporations deal with Joe and he needs protections to even be able to use his credit card and not get screwed constantly. US federal law limits the liability of credit card holders to $50 because Joe is so stupid he needs to be protected from himself. Joe could never (or is too lazy) do what your asking and will get raped constantly because of it. Honestly, a paper wallet printed automatically by some future client version may be too complicated for poor Joe.

This really depends on who you are blocking. Hackers? Paper. Government? Multiple encrypted copies.

First off it is encrypted, which is obvious.

I then have it stored on five usbs, 2 mini SD cards and on 10 Hard Drives spanning multiple rigs.

Also the Bitcoin appdata folder is mapped across and not directly on the hard drive of the client.

Found another solution:
http://www.mdisc.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenniata

DVD that has a stone layer. Last 1000 years. You need a special DVD drive to write them, but they can be read by any normal DVD drive.

EDIT: Link to $17 LG burner with m-disk support
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136259 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136259)

Data engraved in stone
http://www.mdisc.com/assets/img/how-long-will-files-last.png

Although the amount of data we need to back up for Bitcoins is so small that you could chisel it in stone manually.

Use it to back up the blockchain then :D

make take quite a bit tho

that would be a neat idea. every X blocks back up the newest part ofthe blockchain to a disk

The blockchain is already backed up. Everyone with a full node client has the whole thing. That's like a torrent with 10,000 seeders and 100,000 leechers. Just keep one copy for your local use, and if you lose it, just download the whole thing. No need to make multiple copies of the blockchain.

Multiple copies of the wallet is recommended though. Or at least the private keys printed on paper.

Where's the option for an offline Armory wallet on a disconnected laptop?

That would be a combination of any of the following:

In my personal wallet on my computer (with offline Armory)
On a usb drive in a safety deposit box (the transaction)
On a usb drive stored safely in my house (the transaction)
On a usb drive stored somewhere else (the transaction)

But the poll makes it hard to decide which one, ... I think the equivalent would be where your offline Armory wallet is located. Some people have those in a safety deposit box or somewhere else. (in the office or another building.)

Enlightening thread, thanks  ::)