Bitcoin Forum

I have just been at bitcoin conference in san Jose ca, this was a great thing for bitcoin. One thing I noticed while at the conference is there where heaps of ripple employees/promoters their pretending to be bitcoin users and supporters. They where very sneaky and have also disguised themselves on this forum as bitcoin users by building up lots of posts. Have have seen ripple for what it is now. ripple is a group of people trying to fool people into using their system and their own crypto currency to get rich and hold a monopoly on the market.
ripple is not decentralized.
ripple is polluting bitcoin. they do not like bitcoin and this can be seen easily when speaking to them face to face. don't be fooled by clever marketing.
Ripple should only ever be discussed in alternate crypto section.

I am re posting this hear because it was deleted from the ripple for bitcoin users discussion.

Why are all the post's being deleted by the ripple guys? This Is a Bitcoin Discussion not a Ripple Discussion. ???

All agreed.

The mods need to move the Ripple stuff to Alt Cryptocurrencies.

Perhaps you failed to observe that my Ripple Explained for Bitcoiners! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211068.0) thread is self-moderated. Look closely and you'll see this explained at the top of the thread.

The reason it is moderated is because a vocal minority has so much irrational emotional hatred for Ripple that they have made it difficult for Bitcoiners, who are definitely interested in learning how Ripple enhances Bitcoin, to participate in a civil discourse.

If you have a legitimate question that is not already answered, or you want to bring up a factual point that hasn't been made then I welcome you to my moderated thread.

For whatever else you have to say, feel free to post in any of the other unmoderated threads with your views, such as this one:

Why Ripple™ is against everything Bitcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201794.0)

Nope, because Ripple is a way to move Bitcoins around. Ripple is not an alternate currency, although there is a currency built into it. If anything, all of the negative threads that seem to want to focus on this built in currency should be moved. But "Ripple Explained for Bitcoiners!" is 100% relevant to Bitcoin discussion.

Ironically Ripple is the closest thing we have to a distributed exchange for Bitcoin, which is what everyone has been clamoring for after the MtGox DDoS and crash from $266, and now that we're talking about it you want to move the thread?

I think this should be moved to "meta"?

The thing is, you can use Ripple to send IOUs denominated in BTC, so there is some overlap in the discussion of Ripple and Bitcoins. Discussions about XRP go into "alt currecies", but talkig about how to use Ripple to move bitcoins should go somewhere else in the forum, maybe "project development" or "trading".

At some point, maybe they should just create a separate Ripple topic since it's not technically part of core Bitcoin land, and also attracts a ton of heat/controversy/spam from random people in every single thread.

I would like to see Ripple in a section that covers general gateways and payment services such as Paypal, Google Checkout, Dwolla and so on. You could argue that many altcoins are similarly, if not more tied to Bitcoin then Ripple.

If this were a democracy, I'd vote for alt-currencies or something to do with payment systems. That way those who are interested in learning about Ripple would have a resource on this site from which they could post updates and announcements for discussion.  

And of course, there's nothing stopping the Ripple folks from having their own forum someplace else either if they can't find a place that fits.

I hate the fact that you are trying to disguise yourselves as bitcoin users and you guys are flooding our forums and even the bitcoin conference with your agents to try to fool unaware bitcoin users into thinking other bitcoin users are all on board with it. You have been called out now for what you guys are. Before I meet you guy's in person at the bitcoin conference you may have had a chance with attempting to fool me but I saw straight through you guy's. You are working like you are all getting paid to do so why?

Speaking only for myself, I recognize the enormous value that Ripple will bring to Bitcoin and the world, and I want to do as much as I can to make the project successful. Ripple is great for consumers and loosens the traditional financial system's monopoly on money transmission.

Bitcoin is great, don't get me wrong, but have you tried to send U.S. dollars or Euros using Bitcoin? It doesn't work very well.

Just because you say something about bitcoin in your title does not mean that it has anything to do with bitcoin discussion. I am more and more inclined to call ripple a new scam the way it's being pushed. Ripple has nothing to do with bitcoin and you are clearly trying to pull a loophole to keep your thread in it's place. This is a clear tactic you are using. Everyone wants your ripple add off the bitcoin discussion thread.

We need more ripple paranoia.

Is very easy actually. You are obviously heavily invested in XRP and Ripple or you are the guy printing them. Ripple will put everything in your hand's Right? So now if I was to use ripple I would lose badly because I am speaking against your attempt at a crypto currency. You can't delete what I write about ripple here hay bro?    

So it is like Ripple is the Romney campaign with paid supporters while Bitcoin is the Ron Paul campaign with unpaid grassroots supporters.

LOL....

No, its more like Bitcoin is Ron Paul: completely rigid in his ideology and too set in his ways to consider other possibilities.

And Ripple is Rand Paul: younger, more open minded, more energy, able to get more things done because he tries to work within the system instead of trying to challenge it directly.

How many BTC has Tradefortress spent yet btw?

Interesting Paradox.

BTW, can Ripple technology work without the use of the "built in currency"?

This is exactly what I noticed. People involved in ripple seem like they are involved because they are being employed by a big company. Bitcoin users and supporters are involved because they believe in bitcoin and love what it is.

No, because XRP is needed to facilitate transfers.

Now we have it. You clearly hate bitcoin and you are only on this forum to promote ripple xrp or whatever else you can make money from or scam people with.

Having a native currency is why Ripple is succeeding where Open Transactions and the original Ripple failed.

Is it possible that the native currency could be randomly distributed using proof of work instead of a premine? I think the answer is yes. But I prefer the current model where developers and other staff can get paid.

No, actually I am a fan both of Ron Paul and Rand Paul! Why does it have to be either/or?

I definitely don't hate Bitcoin, in fact I bet I am holding significantly more bitcoins than you. Would you like to make a small wager?

and because ripple owners own a majority share (probably all) of the XRP in existence

I don't think so buddy but I'm not willing to make any wagers with you. If you do have any bitcoins you have probably scammed for them and you are only holding them because you know bitcoin is a good investment. Your ripple/XRP currency you are trying to sell to everyone has nothing on the so called ridged bitcoin. 

So, sounds like we wait until they "open" their "open source" code and we make it so it uses Bitcoin instead of ripple.
that's assuming this technology can really accomplish what it claims to in a decentralized fashion.

I like Ripple

although I dont understand how many Ripples I need to make an IOU of any decent amount

This is exactly what needs to happen. open source then start it again if it's any good. other than that ripple is rubbish

Ha, you know you would lose. It would be trivial to audit that, too; just have you and misterbigg send transactions to your own alternative wallets. You've backed down from the challenge; why not just back off this thread, coward?

Ripple had a seat on the 'alternate crypto-currency roundtable at the 2013 conference.  I didn't see anyone holding a gun to their heads.

No matter where it happens to be filed, I would not mind it it were open-sourced one of these days.  Relatedly, I wish to know the underlying architecture so I can make my own decisions about robustness, scaling, centralization, and that sort of thing.  A 'start with all and subtract' scheme was something which hit me some time ago as a means of mitigating against certain kinds of scaling issues.  I'm academically interested in knowing whether Ripple has the same basic goal with this design.

"Ripple" is a system for managing and tracking account balance. It contains "XRP", which is a built in crypto-currency. It's not quite accurate to say that "Ripple is an alt coin" because it is more than that. However, it might be correct to say that "XRP is an alt coin."

But calling Ripple an alt-coin is to ignore all of its other functionality, which in my opinion is a mistake.

It's funny because "closest thing we have to a distributed exchange" for Bitcoin?

You can vote Democrats, which will spy on you with warrantless wiretaps and Tripwire, you can vote Republicans, which will spy on you with warrantless wiretaps and Tripwire.

Distributed enough for you?

XRP threads go in Alt Currencies. Ripple threads go in Service Discussion. Easy. Now you know where to move your two threads. Thanks.

+1

Hey do why dont you post your thread in the Alt-crypto section? Huh?

Hmm do you know the project very well?



Fair enough. Although there's an IRC channel where plenty of support can be had.

(There are nearly 50 people logged in there right now.)


I have too much respect for other developers to be bashing Ripple or any other project. Especially since one of the purposes of OT is to popularize concepts for other developers to adopt. (Success is in all of our interests.)

That having been said, characterizing OT as "failed" is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

--- Open-Transactions is the only open-source project that does many of the things that it does, or that combines them into a single project.

For example:

1. Untraceable cash.
2. Ricardian contracts.
3. Ability to process transactions without storing a receipt history.
4. Fully-functional smart contracts.
5. Built-in client-side scripting.
6. A full range of instruments such as cheques, cash, cashier's cheques, invoices, etc.
7. Basket currencies.
8. Recurring transactions.
9. Escrow.
10. Issue stocks and pay dividends.
11. Fully cross-platform and cross-language.

Etc. All of this is fully-functional now. And it's free and open-source, with no ulterior motives.

--- OT has been undergoing protocol testing, load testing, and real-world testing for a couple of years now. A unit test suite has started to materialize. The complete code has been available for inspection by the open-source community. There are a number of contributors. (See the commit history...)

--- OT is being integrated into a number of projects, including OpenSim. Independent developers are using it (I would know -- I provide free support for them.)

--- Tarballs and install programs are starting to appear, as well as the ability to install via apt-get.

(And I am not the one doing those things -- the open source community is.)

--- Commercial clients are also being developed for OT, and not just by Monetas (my own effort--which recently closed its seed round.)

I am a fan of Ripple, and I hope their technology proves out and that they are successful. And I'm flattered to see my project compared to it, even through the two projects really are apples and oranges.

I really don't want to turn any Ripple threads into discussions on the benefits of Open-Transactions, but if the discussion begins to hinge on my project instead of theirs, then I'm going to be forced to pop up and respond.

I hope you understand.

Everything is so much clearer when they say something so fucking stupid,

so ripple... Which itself is not open source yet. ?. Has succeeded! Where open transactions a clearly superior system still under active development and testing has failed already?

Give that crap it's own sub-forum so i can ignore it.

It is probably working as following:
- a lot of trolls are payed with ripple to fool bitcoiners
- some subforum administrators eventually are treated with lawyer if they don't delete ripple critical comments (registered name)
If this doesn't work then may be they could be bribed with ripples.
Under claiming to reward active members they are rewarding those who are making positive posts about ripple. (Even if they are not corresponding the truth.)

Ripple is the first attempt to bring corporate culture and multi-level marketing to crypto-currency.

Anyone familiar with these tactics can clearly see Ripple for what it is. Its a bold and brash attempt to cash in on Bitcoin.

Personally, I find Ripple and the shills who spam its "features" to be nauseating.

+1
Ripple... first heard of it years ago...seemed sketch then. And then it was flooded on a certain a-no-no-mouse imgeboard. Im pretty sure the trust thing is utterly compromised. NosirIdontlikeit.
MODS MODS MODS MODS...

I already said this. Ripple creators are sneaky, scammy bastards.

I don't care about the future when/if they open the sources. I care about right now. And as of today Ripple is a centralized, closed source, despicable SCAM.


Completely agreed.

+1

+1 - This sounds fair and is descriptive. As more alt currencies and other means of payment/funding/etc are discovered the board will just clutter.

I also get the feeling that people in Ripple community are trying to infiltrate the BTC community (excluding the mod ;-)

Perhaps non-XRP Ripple threads could even have their own section in Service Discussion so that people who don't want to see them could use the ignore board feature.

Or.. perhaps the forum could have an "anything realted to alt coin goes to alt crypto" policy.

This is a good idea, along with the one discussing distributed exchanges to project development. Bitcoin Discussion should stay Bitcoin discussion, service discussion is probably relevant enough for ripple. Never liked moving them to alt currencies much cause it isn't really an alt currency, besides XRP itself.  

so very true Rand Paul also a disgusting bought and paid for sell out..

This is probably off-topic to the discussion at hand, but the answer is easy enough.

You really don't need many ripples to do that, 200 will cover the account reserve requirement, then it costs one transaction fee (0.000001 XRP, I think) to send the IOU. As long as the person you are sending to has the reserve ripples in their account and has trusted you, if they trust you for 100 billion BTC, then you can send that 100 billion BTC IOU using the 0.000001 XRP.

I try not to deal in debt in the real world, why would I deal in debt on the internet??  Stick to Bitcoin, its a better idea.

Unless you only ever use cash and bitcoins, you do deal in debt.

Do you deposit money in a bank account? That is accepting Bank IOUs for your cash. Do you ever give somebody a check? That is giving that person an IOU. Later they give it to their bank and that bank gives it to your bank, and then your IOU is used to cancel some of the bank IOUs. Ripple just makes these relationships more explicit and open, not everything has to go through the central bank anymore.

Instead everything can go through the new central Ripple bank.

The point is not that trading IOUs in Ripple is a better way to do payments than using Bitcoin, it isn't. The point is that Ripple is a better way to buy or sell Bitcoin against fiat currency than Mt Gox. That is the enormous synergy it has with Bitcoin. Right now, centralised exchanges are Bitcoin's main weakness.

Ripple is designed to be a distributed system, so there is no central Ripple bank.

As of today it is closed source and centralized.

Even cash is debt; that's why they are Federal Reserve Notes, representing an IOU from the government to you.

And Bitcoin, big surprise is pegged to them. It's a closed system folks.

oh wait... apparently not entirely (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ven_%28currency%29)
But since it is not Bitcoin or can't be hoarded for financial gain it isn't worth it, right?

OP, You can't just talk some smack and expect to convince anyone that any Bitcoin fan that likes Ripple is some sort of shill.

Also, WTF are you talking about re: the conference? The Ripple guys just stayed at their booth and some interested people gathered around them. They represented maybe ~3% of the space in the main room at best and they were totally chill. You're an idiot.

There's a tendency for every Ripple related thread to turn into discussions about Ripple. It's certainly not very productive.

If people are learning, then why is it not productive?

He thinks Ripple is a scam and therefore the discussions are unproductive. A lot people throw around a lot of opinions instead of learning facts, observing what's happening in the world, and discussing ideas. I don't know where people get so many opinions frankly.

No, not that. The thing is there tends to be the exact same aspect/concept discussed across multiple threads.

If Ripple guys are lying right from the beginning just to get people in the game (and profit from them), then i would say it is the definition of scam.

Could you go into more detail on how bitcoins are pegged to USD? I look at bitcoincharts.com and I see that the exchange rate between the two floats around with great volatility, just about as far from pegged as one can be!

I would be very surprised if he knew what a 'currency peg', or a 'closed financial system' was.

Thanks for stating the obvious. Was this ever in dispute?

I agree fully. The aspects that get repeated are :

"Ripple is a scam"
"Ripple supporters are shills"
"Ripple posters are paid by OpenCoin"
"Ripple is closed source"
"Ripple is centralized"
"Ripple can't possibly work"

Usually coming from TradeFortress. It got so bad I had to create a moderated thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211068.0) just to be able to have any kind of civil discourse.

Not content with posting the same accusations in multiple threads, TradeFortress pays newbies (see this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216764.0)) to use their signature as a back door so he can spread his tripe into as many pages of as many subforums as possible.

So yeah, anti-Ripple posts are definitely trying to take over the Bitcoin forum, thanks to TradeFortress.

Yeah, good point.

Ok lets pretend...
I have no idea, you explain it.

In my opinion, Ripple has too much centralization and power given to the creators. It also isn't transparent and open source so that limits the trust as well.

Ok, this is going a bit off-topic...

A currency peg is when the currency issuer sets a certain amount of some commodity or other currency for which the issued currency can be traded, usually by making a law concurrent to issuing the currency. So if your currency is pegged to gold, there is a certain amount of gold for which you will redeem units of your currency. Or if your currency is pegged to another currency, there is a decreed exchange rate for which they can be traded.

Bitcoins are most certainly not pegged to anything.