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Title: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: pooya87 on September 11, 2017, 04:31:48 AM this is not the first time that the news, um i mean the lie about China banning bitcoin comes out. because in fact China has never banned bitcoin!
on 5 December 2013 China prohibited their banks from investing in bitcoin, the FUD said China banned bitcoin and all the things you are seeing today. the price took a dive about 33% in the first hour and in about 4 days bitcoin lost half its value (-50% drop) before it started recovering as the FUD cleared up. https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=2-hour&c=1&s=2013-12-04&e=2013-12-07&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1& in case above pic didn't show up: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg60zig2-hourzczsg2013-12-04zeg2013-12-09ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zp now in 2017 we have had the same thing. first the ICO thing which didn't even have anything to do with bitcoin, and then this new FUD about China banning bitcoin again! this time however, bitcoin barely dropped 5% in the initial hours and the total drop was about 10% https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=5&i=2-hour&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1& in case above pic didn't show up: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg5zig2-hourzczsg2017-09-07zeg2017-09-11ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zp is the market getting more mature that the FUD is less effective now? Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: CryptoBry on September 11, 2017, 05:18:48 AM In other words, the market can easily be swayed by false news. Rumors can devastate any market for the time being but after things got cleared there is also a chance for Bitcoin to rise again...and it is happening right now. This is not however unique to Bitcoin as any market can be moved by unfounded news anytime especially if that rumor can be picked up by the media.
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: audaciousbeing on September 11, 2017, 05:30:55 AM For the fact that price can be swayed by news of this nature despite the confidence that have been garnered over the years shows some level of weakness that has not been dealt with. But at the same time, bitcoin has approached some high level maturity to have only taken a retreat rather than a dip that would have been envisaged by those promoters of such news for their own selfish needs or interest. Either way, this cannot be said to be a repeat of the past because with this, there is hope that sooner or later, bitcoin will be immune to news such as this.
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: alyssa85 on September 11, 2017, 05:32:05 AM Volumes were much lower in 2013/14 so it was easier to move the market by just a few big sells.
Also, in early 2013, DDOSing exchanges was a thing to make the markets tank - lots of the bitcoiners at the time were nerds in their early 20's and had never traded anything and would sell in a panic. Bitcoin still isn't mature enough - maturity is when rumours only make the price move by about 1% Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: RoommateAgreement on September 11, 2017, 06:21:25 AM as time passes bitcoin market grows bigger and the weak hands become a less percentage of the market because they also gain experience from the dumb mistakes they have made before. so the effects of FUD becomes less and less.
this is interesting that FUD has been always a part of bitcoin from the early days :D Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: BossBee on September 11, 2017, 06:49:08 AM Just like we shill or fud coins on this forum and twitter the big money have connections to politicians and journalist to do it on a grander scale.
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: exstasie on September 11, 2017, 06:56:14 AM is the market getting more mature that the FUD is less effective now? I think, to some extent, yes. The lack of shock to the market is partly about becoming more resilient to FUD (demand is too strong for panic sellers to drive the price down too much). Another aspect of this is that China is a much smaller part of the market now. Their trading volume today is a much smaller share of global volume than years ago, with the US and Japan increasing their shares considerably in the last year vs. China. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Kanapka on September 11, 2017, 07:03:34 AM 2013 was in the middle of Gox thing. Different circumstances
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Wind_FURY on September 11, 2017, 07:17:24 AM The people are also wiser now. Think about the times when they believed in all those bans manipulating them to sell their coins and lose money while doing it. No more. The people now buy the dips whenever there is bad news.
Is everyone now becoming permabulls? I believe so. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Denker on September 11, 2017, 07:29:01 AM Bitcoin is much bigger than back in the days the china banning Bitcoin bs started.
However as we see it's still easy to move the market with some fake news. But the trading vets who where newbies a few years ago learned a lot the last few years, and the big panic drops are not that easy to create any more. So yes Bitcoin is maturing in that case, but it's market cap is still very very tiny and easy to play with for guys with deep pockets and connections to major news outlets. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: gentlemand on September 11, 2017, 09:23:14 AM It seems to have very easily slipped most minds that the Chinese exchanges were a one way casino for much of the early part of this year. The end of their zero fee bullshit is one of the drivers of the rise. They'd been batting down the price for so long that it was primed to go up.
I can't be arsed to attempt to interpret Chinese news any more. If they are gone then that's probably a good thing in the long run. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Rahar02 on September 11, 2017, 09:41:29 AM Volumes were much lower in 2013/14 so it was easier to move the market by just a few big sells. Also, in early 2013, DDOSing exchanges was a thing to make the markets tank - lots of the bitcoiners at the time were nerds in their early 20's and had never traded anything and would sell in a panic. Bitcoin still isn't mature enough - maturity is when rumours only make the price move by about 1% Indeed, the first thing is this news just a FUD because China never ban bitcoin, or at least there is no any official statement about it. People just speculate and take an advantage to get more cheaper coins, we know that . There are 3 reasons why bitcoin still tanks and persist above $4000.; - Like you said, bitcoin volume in circulation is bigger than in 2013, so it's not easy to influence so many holders to panic sell. - People could access to the news, whether it's official or just misleading information. - Bitcoin has been spread widely (relate to the volume), whenever dip occurs, there will be many people ready to buy it which mean someone who hold big portion of bitcoin can not easily manipulate the market. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: exstasie on September 11, 2017, 09:51:18 AM It seems to have very easily slipped most minds that the Chinese exchanges were a one way casino for much of the early part of this year. The end of their zero fee bullshit is one of the drivers of the rise. They'd been batting down the price for so long that it was primed to go up. I can't be arsed to attempt to interpret Chinese news any more. If they are gone then that's probably a good thing in the long run. Even if the reports were true, the exchanges won't be gone. They'll focus on crypto-to-crypto trading (Okcoin came out and said as much). Supposedly the emphasis is on fiat-crypto trading, but to be honest, I'm very skeptical that the report is true. Between the audits early in the year and the quiet return to normal a few months later (with months of frozen BTC withdrawals in between), it just seems unlikely to me. Honestly, I suspect the PBOC planted the story to put a damper on investment and to reinforce the move against ICOs, with no intention of following through on it. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: gentlemand on September 11, 2017, 09:58:17 AM Even if the reports were true, the exchanges won't be gone. They'll focus on crypto-to-crypto trading (Okcoin came out and said as much). Supposedly the emphasis is on fiat-crypto trading, but to be honest, I'm very skeptical that the report is true. Between the audits early in the year and the quiet return to normal a few months later (with months of frozen BTC withdrawals in between), it just seems unlikely to me. Honestly, I suspect the PBOC planted the story to put a damper on investment and to reinforce the move against ICOs, with no intention of following through on it. I've read that BTCC were going to focus on facilitating OTC trades if is true. I assume that would be shut down too. Localbitcoins wouldn't be allowed to survive either. Crypto to crypto is far more bonkers than CNY/crypto. If the Chinese are serious about 'saving' their population then alt only won't be a goer either. Let's sit back and see. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: BitHodler on September 11, 2017, 10:08:54 AM China is less of an important factor nowadays, and that's something we should be happy with. For that reason I don't understand why people still take fud this seriously ~ it shows that this market hasn't actually matured.
Only at the point exchanges start announcing that these such regulations are being put to work, we can start to take this "news" seriously ~ till that time people should just calm down. I am quite sure that after a month of not hearing anything regarding this China ban 'announcement', the market will keep moving on like nothing happened ~ at this point the potential hard fork in November is more of a concern. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: chessnut on September 11, 2017, 10:15:13 AM Ive heard it all before... china ban is harmless, nothing will happen. everyone thinks so. ;D
It is bs and its all going down ;D Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Yuuto on September 11, 2017, 10:29:09 AM Stability has been increasing, definitely.
Not unexpected really as there are a lot more legit users of bitcoin now. Bitcoin is much more than just a token that speculators hold to attempt to gain a profit or whatnot. People actually use it for buying stuff globally, and this brings stability. Even though there was a panic dump it was much a much smaller drop. A lot of bitcoiners especially outside of China seem to think that they will hold BTC regardless of the outcome, as the ban does not affect them. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: snowdropfore on September 11, 2017, 10:47:12 AM the chinese is not the 2013 chinese ,and the bitcoin is no the 2013 bitcoin .the market is become biger and biger ,the whole world is including ,not just china . china ban bitcoin ,so what .
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: exstasie on September 11, 2017, 09:39:59 PM Even if the reports were true, the exchanges won't be gone. They'll focus on crypto-to-crypto trading (Okcoin came out and said as much). Supposedly the emphasis is on fiat-crypto trading, but to be honest, I'm very skeptical that the report is true. Between the audits early in the year and the quiet return to normal a few months later (with months of frozen BTC withdrawals in between), it just seems unlikely to me. Honestly, I suspect the PBOC planted the story to put a damper on investment and to reinforce the move against ICOs, with no intention of following through on it. I've read that BTCC were going to focus on facilitating OTC trades if is true. I assume that would be shut down too. Localbitcoins wouldn't be allowed to survive either. I'm not sure about BTCC, but Okcoin said they would become a "P2P platform for digital assets" if the report came to fruition. The report seems specifically aimed at interaction with fiat currency. It's clear that they aren't banning cryptocurrencies themselves; the question is how much they want to discourage average citizens from obtaining them. Crypto to crypto is far more bonkers than CNY/crypto. If the Chinese are serious about 'saving' their population then alt only won't be a goer either. Let's sit back and see. The ICO ban could be construed as "saving" their population, just due to the sheer magnitude of the bubble. There were hundreds of ICOs within a matter of months, and the amount of investment blew previous Bitcoin/altcoin hype out of the water. But officials have hinted that even the ICO ban is just temporary. The broader context: capital outflows outside of the country. They know they can't stop people from using crypto any more than they can stop people from using VPNs. But they can discourage mainstream participation by cutting off fiat markets and forcing them underground. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: BossBee on September 11, 2017, 10:18:40 PM If the Chinese really cared about the well fare of it's citizens, people in Beijing wouldn't have to wear respirators to breath the city air. If any Government cared about your financial health they would have mandatory fiance classes every year in public school, starting with basics savings and money management to the most intricate functioning's and terminology there are by the end of high school.
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: pooya87 on September 12, 2017, 04:21:07 AM 2013 was in the middle of Gox thing. Different circumstances it was not exactly in the middle of it. the Gox thing you have in mind came a bit after that. but irregardless of that, what i posted here is just an example of many other similar circumstances. this is not the only 2 but the 2013 thing with China ban was the easiest one i could find off the top of my mind which was also very similar to this day. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: MNDan on September 12, 2017, 05:19:16 AM It's kinda funny - China hates Japan, yet they ban Bitcoin and Japan is like - OK? We win again? Bitcoin cool!!!
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Wind_FURY on September 12, 2017, 07:19:43 AM Ive heard it all before... china ban is harmless, nothing will happen. everyone thinks so. ;D It is bs and its all going down ;D I would not say harmless. If the Chinese government comes after the exchanges themselves, it would be a big blow on not only Bitcoin but the whole cryptocurrency ecosystem. I know nothing has happened, but I would not be one to laugh and taking it lightly. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Kyraishi on September 12, 2017, 09:07:26 AM Markets have definitely moved to a lot more stable level compared to a few years ago.
But 2013 was different in that IIRC China actually officially announced that they would be banning exchanges, but only later on did they reconsider their decision and essentially "unban" them again. Nonetheless, still FUD. This time i think people have realised that the source is not accurate or confirmed at all. There was only a $400~ drop off, which was like 10% of bitcoin's value. Compared to 50%, markets have definitely matured and will continue to do so as mass adoption happens imo. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: cafucafucafu on September 12, 2017, 11:07:12 AM In my opinion, by all measurements bitcoin and its community has become so much more mature and there is a lot more long term holders that just don't give a crap about short term pricing of bitcoin in general.
This has resulted in a much more resilient bitcoin price in general, even in events of FUD. Especially when there are rumors, now the market barely moves compared to when China threatened to ban all exchanges where BTC lost half of its value overnight. As more merchants start accepting BTC, stability will grow even more. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: BossBee on September 12, 2017, 07:21:15 PM 3rd China FUD bomb dropped this week. They're trying really hard to shake BTC off its trend line. JP morgan was even called into the assault. The same old tactics aren't working like they use too. This month will be a testament to the current state of bitcoins resiliency.
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: exstasie on September 12, 2017, 09:56:01 PM 3rd China FUD bomb dropped this week. They're trying really hard to shake BTC off its trend line. JP morgan was even called into the assault. The same old tactics aren't working like they use too. This month will be a testament to the current state of bitcoins resiliency. Unfortunately, I'm starting to lose faith that it's just FUD. People like Jihan Wu and Charlie Lee are now confirming that the ban is likely to be true. It's funny, though, that the western markets dumped so hard when they posted the news earlier today (along with the Jamie Dimon comments), but the Chinese markets are holding up particularly well. That's not what I expected to see. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: centralbanksequalsbombs on September 12, 2017, 11:08:23 PM this is not the first time that the news, um i mean the lie about China banning bitcoin comes out. because in fact China has never banned bitcoin! on 5 December 2013 China prohibited their banks from investing in bitcoin, the FUD said China banned bitcoin and all the things you are seeing today. the price took a dive about 33% in the first hour and in about 4 days bitcoin lost half its value (-50% drop) before it started recovering as the FUD cleared up. https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=2-hour&c=1&s=2013-12-04&e=2013-12-07&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1& (https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=2-hour&c=1&s=2013-12-04&e=2013-12-07&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1&) in case above pic didn't show up: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg60zig2-hourzczsg2013-12-04zeg2013-12-09ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zp now in 2017 we have had the same thing. first the ICO thing which didn't even have anything to do with bitcoin, and then this new FUD about China banning bitcoin again! this time however, bitcoin barely dropped 5% in the initial hours and the total drop was about 10% https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=5&i=2-hour&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1& (https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=5&i=2-hour&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1&) in case above pic didn't show up: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg5zig2-hourzczsg2017-09-07zeg2017-09-11ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zp is the market getting more mature that the FUD is less effective now? Exactly. When it comes to bitcoin; China's central control is becoming irrelevant. Jamie Dimon is irrelevant. All the world's largest banks who have been blocking disclosed/open bitcoin transactions/business are irrelevant. Any attempts of government regulations / legalizations are irrelevant. Bitcoin hit escape velocity back in 2013 (4 years ago) and has been strengthening ever since. It's 10 year anniversary is not too far away. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: player514 on September 12, 2017, 11:09:29 PM Stability has been increasing, definitely. Not unexpected really as there are a lot more legit users of bitcoin now. Bitcoin is much more than just a token that speculators hold to attempt to gain a profit or whatnot. People actually use it for buying stuff globally, and this brings stability. Even though there was a panic dump it was much a much smaller drop. A lot of bitcoiners especially outside of China seem to think that they will hold BTC regardless of the outcome, as the ban does not affect them. I think the stability has been going up too. I was almost certain that bitcoin would suffer a stronger drop with the news of China banning news. However, the price rebounded even after the rumors were "confirmed" through articles. Is there any real explanation for this? Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: twobits on September 13, 2017, 05:03:44 AM Stability has been increasing, definitely. Not unexpected really as there are a lot more legit users of bitcoin now. Bitcoin is much more than just a token that speculators hold to attempt to gain a profit or whatnot. People actually use it for buying stuff globally, and this brings stability. Even though there was a panic dump it was much a much smaller drop. A lot of bitcoiners especially outside of China seem to think that they will hold BTC regardless of the outcome, as the ban does not affect them. I think the stability has been going up too. I was almost certain that bitcoin would suffer a stronger drop with the news of China banning news. However, the price rebounded even after the rumors were "confirmed" through articles. Is there any real explanation for this? A lot of the people from the US financial institution are trying to FUD to the crypto, they are worried about the capability of crypto to growth without the goverment. Or this time they are realize us as a threat. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: ft73 on September 13, 2017, 06:57:17 AM I guess some reality check is needed.
BTC is going down already, without any formal announcement coming from China. IF Chinese exchanges are really going to shut down a further sensible correction will ignite. Let's stop talking about FUD and let's start accepting market cycles, who hanged here long enough knows what it means. I hardly think all of the rumors is fake / FUD and for sure more uncertainty will come from here to november. It's time for a healthy correction, which has basically just started. I think it will be measured in weeks, not in days. My 2 cents, for what's worth. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Yuuto on September 13, 2017, 07:08:37 AM Stability has been increasing, definitely. Not unexpected really as there are a lot more legit users of bitcoin now. Bitcoin is much more than just a token that speculators hold to attempt to gain a profit or whatnot. People actually use it for buying stuff globally, and this brings stability. Even though there was a panic dump it was much a much smaller drop. A lot of bitcoiners especially outside of China seem to think that they will hold BTC regardless of the outcome, as the ban does not affect them. I think the stability has been going up too. I was almost certain that bitcoin would suffer a stronger drop with the news of China banning news. However, the price rebounded even after the rumors were "confirmed" through articles. Is there any real explanation for this? There was never a formal announcement from China that the ban will take place soon or even at all. All there was is just news articles really. The Chinese government has not said anything about the situation or commented on it. Thus, i think this current dump is caused by mostly FUD and no real reason honestly. Price has rebounded, and went down, rebounded again, and went down again. Shows that there is a lot of support at the $4k level right now. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: Saoha on September 13, 2017, 09:40:23 AM this is not the first time that the news, um i mean the lie about China banning bitcoin comes out. because in fact China has never banned bitcoin! on 5 December 2013 China prohibited their banks from investing in bitcoin, the FUD said China banned bitcoin and all the things you are seeing today. the price took a dive about 33% in the first hour and in about 4 days bitcoin lost half its value (-50% drop) before it started recovering as the FUD cleared up. https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=2-hour&c=1&s=2013-12-04&e=2013-12-07&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1& in case above pic didn't show up: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg60zig2-hourzczsg2013-12-04zeg2013-12-09ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zp now in 2017 we have had the same thing. first the ICO thing which didn't even have anything to do with bitcoin, and then this new FUD about China banning bitcoin again! this time however, bitcoin barely dropped 5% in the initial hours and the total drop was about 10% https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=5&i=2-hour&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=1& in case above pic didn't show up: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg5zig2-hourzczsg2017-09-07zeg2017-09-11ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zp is the market getting more mature that the FUD is less effective now? Bitcoin prices for both 2013 and 2017 come from the positive news of the market and face the wild objectionable from China. However, these two times, Bitcoin was very different. At the present time, Bitcoin has grown, matured a lot. It received the trust of investors and was recognized by many countries. The transaction is so large that China's banned Bitcoin does not reduce Bitcoin as much as it does in 2013. It is possible that China will only offer fake news to buy Bitcoin at a lower price. Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: edmond_dantes on September 13, 2017, 02:56:59 PM Obviously it's gonna drop less when there is more liquidity but I think we are over bought and there can be a big dump soon
Title: Re: China banned bitcoin: 2013 VS 2017. market maturity? Post by: vasrasus on September 14, 2017, 02:25:23 AM Obviously it's gonna drop less when there is more liquidity but I think we are over bought and there can be a big dump soon Dumpis already happening. We might expect it to decreased morewhicb hopefully will not happen, we want some goodnews now,since if it dips too much it might get hard to recover. |
