Bitcoin Forum

Wouldn't that be great to have wallet with private keys and an anonymizer?
Is that possible?

So far I haven't heard of such combination but it sounds interesting to me. It would be very useful to have wallet with such characteristics and a lot of Bitcoin users would be interested in it, I'm sure. I don't know how this could be done in technical way but if someone has some more information or ideas, please share here.

Now that you mentioned it, I wonder what the developments have been with Samourai and Dark Wallet. Just checked both websites and Samourai seems still in Alpha, DW in public beta.

The former supposedly worked on some mixing features such as randomised outputs on each spend while DW would implement an extended CoinJoin. I've only seen the DarkSend/PrivateSend feature on an a rather poorly supported alt wallet (no, not Dash but Bitradio haha) but never used it. I don't currently have the means to test either, but now you know and can try!

Properly mixing coins may seem like a daunting task to those who aren’t very familiar with Bitcoin, but it is actually a simple process that will only take a few minutes of your time for each deposit.

AFAIK Dark Wallet development is stalled since 2016 and I haven't seen any relevant progress since then. And since the project is still in beta, I wouldn't risk my coins with them. That's the problem with many of those projects. They never keep going.

Until such wallet exists and if you don't want to pay fees in a mixer service you can use a gambling website to send your deposit there. Play a single bet with minimal value like 1 mBitcoin and wait a few hours, withdraw to another address from the one you send your deposit. Keep creating as many wallets as you like and you can use this simple yet effective way of mixing your coins and getting fresh coins, fresh for you only.

Awesome suggestion. That is a good solution until we have our mixer wallet.

What if the betting site logs every movement? A trace would be left.

And also you have to be careful to split the withdrawal to multiple wallets or one can guess the path by observing the same amount being transfered  for the deposit on the betting site and the withdrawal.

At the end of the day you can forget about these tricks by connecting the wallet via TOR for peace of mind

Seems not so easy without a good mixer. Sounded so good with the gambling site.

It is possible, already exists and is called Monero wallet. Problem is it is not Bitcoin wallet.

So it is the best to exchange to monero, xrp, ZCash and so on?

Not necessarily so. Anonymity is a nice coin property, but obviously not the most important in the eyes of the majority of the users. Market dictates the price in it's mysterious ways.

Ah, right, thanks for that. Amir Taaki had a very recent interview about Bitcoin (extreme libertarian Bitcoinist, believes in core but also believes Bitcoin needs to return to its ideological roots) and he was still referred to as the "co-organiser" (whatever that means) of Dark Wallet. Maybe I misheard or read too much, but it seemed a lot like DW was very much alive. All the same, I wouldn't mind testing a bit of coin on stuff like that - just more concerned with screwing my computer up is all :)

Many gambling websites would not tolerate this behavior for long. They want you to actually gamble there
and lose your funds in the process and not become a partner in crime for crypto laundering.

Some operators even explicitly prohibit this kind of behavior in their terms of service.

That is not a problem.
You can bet all your coins on bets with high probability (and lowest odds), so they cannot say you are not betting all your money.
Then after you win you withdraw everything.
It's not against their TOS, you actually are betting every single coin you have deposited and they can't find out you did it just for other reasons.

But the problem with this approach is the same as VPNs, they log everything so all your money movements are not untraceable as they claim.
When you withdraw , authorities know you are the same person who deposited/bet those coins.

And Monero/ZCash/ZCoin claim to be untraceable but often new researches come out that find privacy vulnerabilities in those currencies, so i would think twice before using Monero if i were doing shady stuff, it would be too risky not having the guarantee it's untraceable .

Many voices here on this forum say that the only solution is still a wallet over TOR (whatever crypto you want, even Bitcoin)

How should they track the IP and then the coins? We just could use VPN and that would it be, wouldn't it?

If they know the IP and if it belongs to a VPN , they can ask the VPN provider who used that IP that day, and they find you.

So you better use TOR instead of a VPN.
Maybe using TOR alone is better than VPN together with TOR (See also the first response and comments to this question: https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/1945/tor-via-vpn-good-extra-level-of-security-or-unnecessary )

About the path of the coins, it's simple:
BTC address A (your address) => deposit to B (your BTC account on betting site) => withdraw to address C
Imagine the betting site logs these movements, so they know there's this path from address A to C. They can tell the authorities

About how they find out which IP sent coins from BTC address A... well, i think there's plenty of information about BTC being "pseudoanonymous" and not anonymous.

Example:
Source: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/is-bitcoin-anonymous-a-complete-beginner-s-guide-1447875283/

I have done that a few times with different sport books and not one has complained. I gamble 0.0005 btc to 0.001 btc before I withdraw my money. That is the only requirement in order for me to withdraw, to place at least one minimal bet before asking to withdraw funds. I play two bets always before asking for withdrawal, if bets are wins I continue to play with my winnings.

I dont think that their is any wallet with mixer facility. but their is a coin which will clear the details and that is monero coin, which means functions is to clear the details from the wallet and enjoy it

I heard some wallet before but in tor network but i heard that it is not safe because your bitcoin will be gone if you clear your wallet..
Much better if you wanted to be anonymous make your new wallet and use the chipmixer to mixing your bitcoin and no one can trace your transaction..
This is the best for now that i think safe than a none safeway to become anonymous..

There was a talk regarding mixing bitcoins at Breaking Bitcoin conference in Paris last weekend.

You should find some answers and ideas there.

The presentation starts at about minute 11:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY-QQOjycgI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY-QQOjycgI)

You meight also want to watch the other 2 videos with very interesting topics.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCP7NPTxVrt01-FlSiWYSzQ/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCP7NPTxVrt01-FlSiWYSzQ/videos)

This is actually a good idea. I'm sure theres a way to have something like this implimented directly onto a wallet.  :)

I found a few wallets like Pay Treat Bitcoin , that promise privacy in not tracking transactions, IPs and more. Could those be the solution?

Looks exactly like Coinomi but with fewer coins. I wouldn't trust them. Also, a wallet not tracking transactions and IP has nothing to do with mixing coins.

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OP: I just remembered that ChipMixer build an Electrum app that allows you to do all the mixing proccess inside your wallet and import the private keys automatically. Electrum didn't accepted the merge for the plugin because they were afraid of any complications with the legal system. But IIRC, they did accepted a merge that allows you to manually install the ChipMixer plugin.

Link to the plugin repo: https://github.com/chipmixer/electrum/tree/plugin/plugins/chipmixer

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/14/blob8f06db55254734dc.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c8yb3/a_stepbystep_guide_to_creating_an_anonymous/

Bitcoin, its default state, should never be considered an anonymous (or even reasonably private) monetary system. Bitcoin’s pseudonymity is tenuous at best, easily compromised by basic net surveillance. Now although Bitcoin wallets with coin control features allow you to make payments from select addresses, the way that Bitcoin wallets handles change often results in various addresses within the wallet becoming provably linked. As a result,- one identity-associated address under your control can “leak” information about your other - “unknown” addresses.

Here's a good enough way for someone who wants to be anonymous and use bitcoin! https://www.expressvpn.com/internet-privacy/bitcoin-anonymity/step-by-step-guide/

A 100% anonymous Bitcoin wallet with a built in mixer services will get closed down and hunted down by governments. It

will have to be a decentralized service or operating in a country where nobody can get to it. {where it will be legal} I think

most countries still tolerate pseudo-anonymity because cash gives people the same level of anonymity.... but 100%

anonymity will never be tolerated by governments. {They will seriously start banning Bitcoin, if this is standard practice}  ???

Soo sad, but i wish bitcoin wallet mixer would exist someday.

Just convert bitcoin to monero and that's all, there is no need of something different. Monero is good for that as far as I know (also bitmixer.io's owner mentioned that) but I still read some posts where people say that monero isn't safe and other coins are more anonymouse than monero.
But there is no need of mixers if anything you do is ok.
I think what chipmixer offers customers is high anonimity because you have more options than other mixers but there will be still more works on anonimity and as time goes everything will redevelope.

Monero transactions is not anonymous ( http://www.trustnodes.com/2017/04/15/monero-transactions-usually-not-anonymous-says-new-study ) Zcash is the only one among these currencies that provides strong anonymity. For an explanation of why bitcoin is not anonymous, take a look at the recent keybase post on adopting zcash: https://keybase.io/blog/keybase-and-zcash

Thank you for the plugin link. I have to take a lot at it later. I still used mixing services like Chipmixer and Cryptomixer and "obfuscate transactions" because I really want privacy. Another option that I can only see is either Monero and Zcash. Though I haven't try to convert bitcoin to Monero though. I just used the old and reliable method of tumbling service.


Looks interesting but will check it out later. I browsed around the forum and I found this link:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1761144.0

Its there ANN thread but looks like its not much update on the development of this wallet.

Thank you for sharing. That would be a smarter as to import manually all keys to somewhere. I imported keys of chipmixer into mycellium. Would be great, if Electrum would go with its awesome services mobile. Also the feature with USB stick instead of hardware wallets s great.

Lol, impossible, without breaking the code. A mixer needs the TX's of other users to mix, and there is no getting that from your wallet.

A coder can make it happen pretty easy, but that is not part of the bitcoin daemon/client and is a second layer of coding over that, maybe light scripting, and that means trusting yet another total stranger, this time with your Bitcoin key pairs.