Bitcoin Forum

So I played some SatoshiDice from MtGox, as I was a newbie and their system provided no warning when I put a 1dice address in.
SatoshiDice sent me back around 700 EUR (one of the lucky bets txn is below).
Of course I never got that money, as I found out later the return addresses MtGox provides are not tied to your account, and the money appears somewhere else within MtGox-operated accounts network.

Watch me appeal to MtGox Customer Support, and watch them fail harder with every response (tldr; incompetent support with no human decency and lacking the concept of private property, thinking they just get to keep my money!)

Below is a complete account of an MtGox Customer Support issue:

Me - May 15 18:36
Hi,

I've used SatoshiDice several times before accidentally hovering over the help icon and reading that it doesn't work (as I found out later by browsing the forums, mtgox does not seem to provide the correct return address). I have over 500 EUR in bitcoins that never reached my address. Please send me that money, I need it as soon as possible.

I have a usability suggestion for you. All SatoshiDice addresses start with 1dice. If the users puts in an address that looks like an SD address, display the warning that it won't work with mtgox (or even disable the button). Of course, the real solution would be to make it work, but this would at least mitigate the problem for now.

Also, it would help if the chat displayed wait time estimate. I've waited for over half an hour on the chat before writing this email.

 
James Support
Support Desk
Hello,

Thank you for the email. Let me inform you that the send address is used for only temporarily and it can not be used as received address.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 15, 2013 22:26
Yes, I already understand that (as should be clear from my message). I will not do that again, and I have provided a usability suggestion that should help others in understanding that. When will you send me my money?

Me - May 15, 2013 22:30
Here is an example of my satoshidice bet http://src.satoshidice.com/longpoll.php?tx=5c2f36654a40e415f343e70e5077ab04dde01ff194df439f6d17b686842f32a4

The address is temporary, but it still belongs to mtgox, so you received the winning from that bet, correct?

James Support - May 15, 2013 22:37
Support Desk
Hello,

Let me inform you that we will not able to receive the funds to the Mt.Gox. Please be clear send address cant be used as receive address.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team


Me - May 16, 2013 20:28
Please do take a few minutes and answer the questions I've asked so far.

As long as I understand:
* You know about the situation, as the hint states
* You did not inform me of this problem when I was doing a transaction, while you had all means to warn me and prevent the situation from arising
* The money is now in one of the accounts you have access to

The conclusion I can make out is: you have my money, you have gained it by negligence.
In light of the recent case (http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mt-Gox-Dwolla-Warrant-5-14-13.pdf) I doubt you would like more attention from authorities right now (in my case German authorities, as I am a German resident).

You would be wise to give me the decency of a human response explaining the situation in detail. Please consider escalating this request if you do not have enough authority to do so.

James Support - May 16, 2013 21:53
Support Desk
Hello,

Thank you for the email. Please send us the sending and receiving address that the funds has been sent to you.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 17, 2013 19:16
Unfortunately, mtgox does not show the transaction ids in account history

Please provide me with the transaction numbers for all the withdrawals to 1dice addresses from my account since 2013/05/14, then I will contact SatoshiDice to provide you with the sending and receiving addresses

James Support - May 17, 2013 22:03
Support Desk
Hello,

To check the account history of you account. Please click on Account history of your account and click on top right corner for the account history.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 19, 2013 20:04
James, Account history does not show the transaction IDs! I need the transaction IDS!

Me - May 19, 2013 20:27
Please look up withdrawals to 1dice addresses from my account since 2013/05/14, and provide me with transaction addresses, just like I asked in the previous message.

James Support - May 19, 2013 20:30
Support Desk
Hello,

Please be advised we do not have control of your account and you can have reference number from your account history.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 20, 2013 22:29
> you can have reference number from your account history.
Here they are (attached). Please kindly tell me where I can find reference numbers?

 mtgox satoshidice withdrawals.png (quick view)

James Support - May 20, 2013 23:00
Support Desk
Hello,

For your information, the transactions for the past three months will be active and other transactions will be archived. the option is available in the account history and it can be downloaded in CSV format at the top right corner. Please contact us for further assistance.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 22, 2013 00:40
Hi James,

The CSV File does not give me any additional information either, see attached file.

 mtgox-csv.png (quick view)

James Support - May 22, 2013 01:48
Support Desk
Hello,

Thank you for the email. We do not have the control of your account. Please be refer the below attachment for your reference.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

 SatoshiDice.JPG (quick view)
Note: support staff fail, they didn't bother to look at what their system actually shows. this attachment was not helpful, it was just a screenshot of SatoshiDice help icon hover warning that had been discussed in my first message

Me - May 24, 2013 01:22
Please at least return this one:
88dda561b795f8eb320b5330236830f13c9e19e8148145b0250c61bb755711d0

Danny - May 24, 2013 02:13
Support Desk
Hello,

Kindly note that our system will not work with SatoshiDice and it is not possible for us to locate the transaction. Please file a police report in order for the police to investigate the case and make an effort to retrieve your funds. We will cooperate with the police authority in providing the necessary information for the investigation, but we are unable to reimburse any funds.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 24, 2013 09:24
No wonder people DDoS you

Danny - May 24, 2013 09:37
Support Desk
Hello,

We have already explained in the withdrawals page about our system no compatibility with SatoshiDice. Contact us for any further assistance.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 26, 2013 09:01
Your explanation came too late and my money is in an account held by you. How do you even dare steal my stuff and make me go through police..

James Support - May 26, 2013 11:28
Support Desk
Hello,

Let me inform you that the funds are not held by us and we did not receive the money. You can contact SatoshiDice or please file a police report in order for the police to investigate the case and make an effort to retrieve your funds.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Me - May 26, 2013 19:08
So who holds the funds? The transaction states the money was sent to an address operated by you.

Satoshidice has a warning on their page that you should use a test amount first before betting anything big:

"Only use wallets that allow you to receive Bitcoin from the same address you sent from. If you're not sure, test by sending a bet for the minimum amount. If you get nothing back, then your wallet is not compatible. Note that some bets may require one confirmation before the win/loss value is sent back."

You neglected to follow the warning and therefore it is not MtGOX's fault that you did not get your earnings.  They probably use the send account for multiple people and it would be very hard and time intensive to prove that transaction was yours.

Why anyone uses mtgox as their wallet is beyond me, this is why there are ewallets and desktop wallets.

Lesson learned: read the warnings before proceeding with using any system like this.  This wasn't even hidden in a TOS or fine print, it's right there on the front page plain and simple!

Gox also says quite clearly that their system will not work with SatoshiDice.

It's your fault mate, mtgox is a trading site, you shouldn't use it as your online wallet and on top of that there is a warning on SD too.

Ps: I don't know if they recycle those address as sending address or not but if they do, someone will get those funds.

After inspecting the blockchain, I think I see the issue now.

The address that the funds were sent from is probably someone's temporary address they receive funds at for mtgox.  (Everytime you received BTC, MTGOX generates a new address for you.)  The reason I say this is that if you look at: https://blockchain.info/address/1LxNm2tWBGHKfUE9ypyu1sMsQFfizoFotj which is the address you claim to have tried to receive the funds at, that address is receiving funds from bitcoin faucets.  I doubt MTGOX goes onto bitcoin faucets and enters captchas as part of it's business strategy!

I'm guessing that MTGOX used someone's receive address to send BTC to satoshidice, and when it returned, it returned to someone else's account.  For all we know, he is a day trader that has such a high volume of movement that he wouldn't notice an extra 5 bitcoins in his account.  But Mt.Gox is right--they can't just give you funds out of someone else's account.  It's the equivalent of if you accidentally deposited money into someone else's dwolla or paypal or bank account.  You would have to go through the process to reverse the erroneous transaction (which even with dwolla or paypal or regular banks can take weeks to research and cost a bit of money).  Since BTC is irreversible, there really isn't any recourse you have at this point.

Once again--lesson learned: there were warnings everywhere and you chose to ignore them.  I bet this won't happen again to you anytime soon.

700 eur stupidly wasted because the person obviously couldn't read. Would be a better title.

While it may be complicated or time consuming to retrieve it, they do not get to keep it. A regular business practice would be to charge a fee on retrieving. However, understand that they do not have the rights to my money just because I made a mistake like that!
 
WuLabsWuTecH, thank you for this comprehensive explanation. As I understand it though, there is one gotcha: MtGox must have full access to all accounts to operate, so they must also be able to transfer money from the account where it was erroneously deposited to back to my account (as long as that account is still solvent after such transfer).

I'm really sorry to hear this!

DoubleMyCoins.com (http://doublemycoins.com) is a newly opened site that does the same thing. There is a warning about only sending from a wallet that allows incoming transactions.

MtGox has a ton of issues to worry about, like security, lawsuits, regulations and more on top of trying to run their business. Please understand they have tens or more like hundreds of thousands of users, so it's a bit hard to give each issue priority

Yeah it really sucks. All it would take them to prevent this from ever happening is one line of javascript, since SatoshiDice addresses are public and don't change (they also all start with 1dice).

I understand they must be new to this, but so far I've been told that they won't deal with my issue at all. I must be the only user who did not guess to hover over that one generic blue help icon on that page.  ::)

a fool and his money  <--->

bad news.

CanadianGuy, GodfatherBond, escrow.ms and others who may feel like posting before reading: a company that behaves like this is not to be trusted!

You're starting down a slippery slope there.  Sure MtGOX has full access, but we have no idea whose account the money was credited to.  He may have traded it already or bought a pizza with it!  In Banking, transactions are reversible, but Bitcoin is built not to be.  You are requesting that MtGOX start acting like a bank and go into someone's account to retrieve the funds.  This is not a good road to go down.  I would agree that MTGOX should credit you had THEY been the ones to make a mistake--that is to say, had you transferred in BTC to your GOX account and they credited it to the wrong account.  I would agree that MTGOX should eat the cost there and credit you with your BTC that you rightfully deposited, but since they made no mistakes they should in no way be liable for your loss.  It comes back to the fact that you did not follow proper deposit procedures (only depositing to an address that is assigned to you).

Further, I don't actually know if it's provable that they BTC is rightfully yours.  A good analogy (I know it's not a great one) may be that you deposited money with Bank A, and later withdrew said money plus interest.  You stuck the cash in an envelope with no return address (or the return address of bank A, you were cheap and used one of their envelopes on the counter) and mailed it to Bank B.  In it, you indicated that you wanted the cash deposited to Account number 1235.  Unfortunately, your account number is 1234.  While it can be circumstantially shown that the amount deposited was the exact amount you withdrew from bank A 2 hours prior, it cannot be conclusively proven that is where the money came from.  Make sense?

Speaking of slippery slopes, BitCoin is about trying to get away from regulation and nanny states.  Why would an exchange start popping up messages warning people not to send money to certain addresses.  This once again starts down a steep slope.  Do they do it for all gambling sites?  What about doing it for known scam sites?  Where do you draw the line?  It's up to each user to do the due diligence for himself to figure out whether he wants to do business with any other user and this includes reading the warnings posted on both sites about compatibility issues.

Yeah, when reading through his emails to support both of these came to mind. I don't even have an account at Mt. Gox and yet I still knew they were not compatible.

A Bitcoin exchange can't work any other way. Otherwise, every single trade would have to be accompanied by a blockchain transaction to move the funds to "your" address.

MtGox, however is a real company and operates under Japanese law and international trade agreements. The company is still liable to the customer in more ways than they'd like to be, even if tries to set its own rules -- the law always takes priority. Your analogy is not quite the same, because bitcoin are a lot more traceable than that.


Can BitCoin stay unregulated for much longer? Money laundering won't stop by itself, as everyone chooses to avoid tax when the risk is low and the tax is high. Since it seems that somebody has already figured out how to artificially scatter transactions so that they effectively become untraceable, the are many ways to launder money with this...

Yes, but MtGox does log my send transaction, and does know about the received transaction from SatoshiDice. For each transaction they know about the exit point, the following entry point, and they can trace the final point at an MtGox address tied to an MtGox account.

Sounds more to me like "700 EUR lost when gambler doesn't follow instructions."

You lost the bet - you lost the money you never owned - don't gamble.

Yes, but if at the end of their investigation, they are unable to ascertain that you are owed funds (which is what it sounds like they are saying) then that's all they have to do internally (assuming japanese law is similar to us law--i claim to be an expert in neither, but I have taken quite a few law classes and had some experience in the field).  Your choices are to sue them in court, where you will have the burden of proof that the money is yours AND that MtGOX was negligent in crediting the money to someone else's account.  The first is going to be hard to do, the second IMHO is going to be impossible.  YOU made a mistake that resulted in a LOSS for YOU.  Depending on how long ago this happened, you may have a claim if you can figure out who the account holder of the other address is.  In most places, after you find something of value not to be yours, you are required to make a reasonable effort to locate it's owner.  (In most places this is done either by filing a police report or taking out an ad in the local paper though courts have ruled other methods to satisfy this requirement).  If after a certain period of time no one has stepped forward to claim the item, it becomes yours (it was abandoned).  THIS is what MtGOX is telling you to do in regards to the police report.  You misplaced something and by filing a report, you may be able to claim this item later if it shows up in another police department's system or some other database.  Once again, you will have to prove that the BTC actually belong to you (kind of like identifying a ring when you go to pick up a found item).  Will your local detectives put in a lot of work into finding something that amounts to $700?  Probably not, but it'll be your best shot.  Think of it as the equivalent of filing a report saying I left my ring on the top of my car in WalMart's parking lot and drove off and now I can't find it.


Irrelevant: it only matters if it is regulated AT THE TIME of the issue arising.

Ah, but the the "quite" part is in the eye of the first person that did not see it.
Please be advised, that MtGox only lets you know about this incompatibility if you happen to hover over one of the identical blue help icons on that page.

I'm not usually one to bash others, but the amount of stupidity concentrated in one sentence here astounds me.

He won the bet.  The original bitcoin, if in fact it was from his account he clearly owned.  And wouldn't losing money that wasn't even yours in the first place be an incentive to gamble?  By  that definition, you could only win and not lose anything because you didn't own the principal...

that sentence made my head hurt.  I'll be back after getting an aspirin...

edit: head hurt so much that I made a lot of typos. Fixed now! :)

It's also on satoshidice's page.  Once again, do your due diligence beforehand.  It's still not GOX's fault.  And I hope by now you have set up your own ewallet or desktop wallet somewhere and aren't using gox as your personal wallet right?

The irony was clearly lost here - warning

It doesn't matter whether BTC itself is regulated right now for the issue at hand. What matters is that MtGox is regulated.
Note that in the scenario where I go through the police, it is actually possible to prove everything (which is the main reason money laundering via bitcoin does not happen en masse yet), as long as the investigation gains access to MtGox data, which is what would happen in Germany, but before that I could try it in Japan.

Not that I will actually go to the police myself, I don't have time for that :)
Any lawyer interested to try a BitCoin case, do a good deed and make some cash?

Right, but the problem is that it traces to a MtGox account that is not yours. MtGox uses Bitcoin accounts to receive money. When they spend that money, it comes from their receiving addresses. So your payment went to someone else's receiving address.

I have a deposit address at Mt. Gox. Say I send 10 BTC to that account. The 10 BTC will be sent to *my* Mt. Gox receiving address. Now, say you send 1 BTC to SD. If it uses some of my 10 BTC, which it might, then your transaction's sending address will be my transaction's receiving address. To Mt. Gox, it will look like I am depositing more Bitcoins.

IMO, it is SD that is broken. It does not make sense to automatically send Bitcoins to an address just because it sent Bitcoins to you. There is no way to know that the recipient will bear any logical relationship to the actual sender.

I'm a graduate student who is in his 13th hour of cramming for finals next week.  I might need a break cut to me...

And the headache might be due to the studying... lol

If anything this would be small claims.  Read: you aren't gonna see this money anytime soon.

Break cut to you - good luck with the exams.

Well, SD is probably assuming that money is coming from a wallet that you control--which is not a bad assumption.  The alternative would be to require a return address somehow and creation of accounts and that's probably just a lot more trouble than it's worth.  But yes, the hard part is proving that the money isn't someone else's.  Gox is well within the realm of logic to assume that the BTC that was sent back to you from SD was a deposit to someone else's account.

You are right, then of course this is not about money, but this is about teaching MtGox proper manners! And for the lawyer, trying a BTC case (of which many will follow), doing a good deed, and doing their job.

Might be better to encourage people to 'learn' rather than forcing your 'teachings' upon them. Never more so when it comes to gambling and other addictions.

I will still "gamble", I will just not do it with MtGox anymore!  :P

Thank you kind sir! :)

Hey it's only an addiction if you have a problem!  And I don't have a problem!!! o_O

But yes, please for the love of God learn from this and learn how to use your own wallet and it's purposes vs what the wallets on exchanges are used for.  And yes, you are a newbie (hence posting in this forum) so do take some time to read around to avoid the mistakes others have made.  Hopefully others behind you will read this thread and will learn from your mistakes as well.

And regardless of me defending GOX today, I still don't use them and don't plan on ever trying to use them again--they have some terrible customer support in regards to how long it takes to get issues resolved!  The one time I tried trading with them, over a month later and my account still was not all the way set up!

Good luck with that :)

You are very welcome - I remember (vaguely) that stress.

Thanks Joel. That was a very clear explanation.

It unfortunate that the Mt. Gox reps were unable to come up with any explanation.

Right. The point is that Gox did the right thing. You can argue endlessly over whether Bitcoin is broken because it doesn't provide a return mechanism, SD is broken because it acts as if Bitcoin did provide such a mechanism, SD is broken because it didn't provide adequate warnings, the user is at fault because they didn't pay attention to the clear warnings, and so on. But there is no way this is Gox's fault. Either SD didn't provide adequate warnings that they make unusual assumptions or the user didn't pay attention to adequate warnings. Gox's behavior here is completely normal and, most likely, they credited the deposit to another user because SD sent the deposit to some other user's deposit address.

There is no simple way Gox can make this work.

kind of scarry

Right, but since all this data is available, they can trace it (remember, in your scenario, that they also have internal ids for transactions and tie them to users, and that is how it is resolvable). Surely they should charge a retrieval fee and return the money.

You are assuming the BTC are still in the account of the person who "owned" the address.  And the internal ID would just show that a deposit came into the said address and that the proper user account was credited with the BTC.  None of that will have any of your information in it.

That may be true that they could probably trace it, but how would you propose "returning the money" when it's already sitting in another person's account?

If it's in their MtGox account, there is no problem. If their balance is not sufficient for the account to remain solvent, it should still be put as a liability on their account.


If that were true, they should make it a lot harder to shoot yourself in the foot. Like a real warning!
Although, I bet it is surprisingly easy to figure out what's where from that data (just a graph traversal).

I'm not sure who the "they" is here. If you mean Gox, I'm not sure how much effort it is fair to require of them to work around other people's assumptions that are known to be broken.

It is if you investigate it. I would analogize it to intentionally depositing money in the wrong bank account -- if some company keeps sending them money over and over addressed to the wrong account, at some point the bank has to draw the line. It's not fair to expect them to continue debiting the accounts of innocent customers incorrectly credited by someone else's mistake. It's not unreasonable for them to say that they'll credit the accounts the depositor asks them to credit rather than having to constantly tell innocent customers that their balance is wrong.

Correct, I am assuming that once the money is inside MtGox they log all the internal transaction with BTC addresses. I know they log them because I have account history. I assume they are associated with BTC txn data because I can't see it working otherwise.

I think that's part of the reason there was so much confusion in the first place with the email thread you posted.  Like it's said below, someone who intentionally uses something that they know won't work isn't something that people are going to be thinking about and it'll require a lot of explanation!


Agreed.  If it were a large sum of money (hundreds of thousands of dollars), a reasonable person could be expected to question it, but for someone who deals in large volumes, which this other account user might be, a reasonable person may not bat an eye that their books are off by about 3 BTC (or whatever the transaction was for).

You would be surprised how this turns out when the responsible party is an actual bank http://www.calbankers.com/compliance-bulletin/bank-held-liable-wire-transfer-losses-phishing-scam (http://www.calbankers.com/compliance-bulletin/bank-held-liable-wire-transfer-losses-phishing-scam)
Of course MtGox is not one. If it were one, it would be required to either refund all of them, or put barriers in place

And it could be that they are logged somehow that the support team can't access or know how to access.  Similarly, if you were to call Bank of America or Chase up, and had an issue with your account, you can't just talk to the support people.  There are account research specialists whose sole job it is to research issues like these!  But once again, we are making assumptions about a system we know nothing (or close to nothing) about.

And once again you are confounding the banking system with the bitcoin system.  While there are parallels  the two systems are inherently different.  As someone who is new to bitcoin, I understand your confusion, but remember that you are dealing in a different system with different rules here.

Well said Frank - clearly a trusted member who knows his stuff...

I will not bring real banks into this anymore :) getting tired as well as it's 3 AM here, logging off now. It was good to talk!

It's a learning process.  And it's ok to make some mistakes along the way as long as you learn from them.  But nottm28 has a point--look at all of the members on this thread that had something useful to contribute (and ignore the others who still have newbie tags).  We are all basically saying the same thing but I think it's finally sinking into you that you cannot think of bitcoin in the same way that you think of other currencies.  It's something unlike anything else you have ever done.  But those of us with some experience are all saying basically the same thing because in this ecosystem that's how the rules are.  It'll take some time to get used to it, and there are definite advantages and disadvantages with bitcoin vs fiat currency, but this is why you are here in this forum trying to learn.  hopefully you have learned a lot today from this thread and from reading the other subforums and are on your way to becoming more proficient in BTC.

G'night mate!

Adding to comment...

Unless they were never sent any of the funds in the first place... From the gambling site, who "knows", that mtgox is not an acceptable deposit. As far as you know, they just kept the funds, and said they sent them. Ask them for the address they sent the funds to. The proof should be there, in the block-chain.

Yea, it is not wise to use an "exchange" or "trader" as a "personal bank/wallet". They are there only to get money from you, and give it to you... not to your friends. If they failed to send it to you, or get it from you... then you could justify your complaint. However, YOU abused the system, and got burned.

There are warnings all over. Obviously you don't read the "I agree..." things you sign.

You made the choice to send it to an account that wasn't yours. You gambled, and lost. That is NOT their problem if the person you sent the money to, did not return it to YOUR account, with the correct method. Stop gambling... or do what is legally required for a dispute... "Get a police report, make a case, present the case with the evidence to a judge, and have it settled."

If you are in Germany, you should use a German exchange. Why risk using a foreign exchange? Did you plan on flying there to settle the dispute? Do you have "international lawyers" to settle your disputes? Then stop dealing with international crap! Hmmm, regulation and insured handlers are not looking so bad now, after all... are they...

I'm noticing a theme here...I suppose that's one way to spam a thread and boost your post count...

But back to the point of the thread:

I know this is just rehashing what others have said at this point, but I suppose it also bears repeating. Reversing a Bitcoin transaction (accidental or otherwise) isn't possible, unless you manage to get the receiving party to cooperate. If the funds you sent to SDice ended up going back to another user's account, then that would be mighty hard to retrieve. It may be worth it to keep up the fight with Gox, but I'd say let it go. I'm sure you'll know for next time, even though it was quite a pricey learning experience.

More specifically, it's the difference between hard money (cash or its equivalent) and soft money (promises to pay). Americans particularly are not used to dealing with hard money systems, other than cash, because American banking and consumer finance is pretty much all soft money. Gox is a hard money system. When you send Bitcoins to someone's Gox deposit address, it's supposed to be, semantically, as if you handed that person cash. This rule is needed because Bitcoins can very easily leave Gox as hard money and the only practical way to soften the money would be to add friction to this path.

This was a tough lesson, I'm sorry it happened. To help me learn from this event (and simultaneously admit my lack of knowledge), will Bitcoin QT wallet addresses send and receive? How about online wallets like Blockchain.info or Coinbase.com)?

I think Bitcoin QT and Coinbase do (BQT should, and Coinbase had a FAQ where others said it worked fine). I'm thinking I read somewhere that Blockchain.info doesn't though.

What most people say to do is send the smallest amount possible as a test.

Same thing happened to me at Mt. Gox with a different Plinko Pinball site. I sent in .1 BTC and won .2BTC.
support there is a joke. I'm a support manager and they couldn't understand (though I suspect they do).
They finally admitted that the sending address they assigned me was a "temporary address" that "someone else owns".

Mt Gox should give better warning not exclusive to Satoshi but specify that if you Withdraw fund to an address that a return reply of funds will go to someone else's account.

I use mt gox still with primedice but now will move to coinbase.

MTGOX IS A SCAM. end of story anyone who says otherwiseis misguided.

here we go again....

why can't you guys stop this..

it is not doing anything good...

What shitty customer service that is.. Sorry buddy

Mt. Gox customer service is correct, they don't hold the funds. He's just doing a poor job of explaining the issue. The OP erroneously told SatoshiDice to send funds to some random guy's Mt. Gox account and now he wants Mt. Gox to get him back the funds. Mt. Gox can't do that because Mt. Gox is a hard money system. Their customer service is doing a poor job of explaining that Bitcoin transfers are irreversible and if you send funds to someone, even if by mistake, you cannot get them back.