Bitcoin Forum

The WSJournal article says if BTC is to change dollar, its current value is 0. Plus the ways of possible transactions with BTC is very limited and it requires spending lots of energy (who can explain the part with the energy spending?).
On the other hand if in future BTC  would depend on gold, its value will be stable and it won't be opened to any fluctuations at all.

What do you guys think about that?

The value is $ 3k + why they say the value is $ 0, and BTC is not dependent on anything gold or anything else, BTC will be stable if everyone is using bitcoin

Yes, the market says what the value is. If a trader is willing to buy it from me for $4000 per Bitcoin right now then that is its price. That person writes for the Wall Street Journal, he should know more than others that the Bitcoin market is dictated by supply and demand.

WSJ is basically full of shit. They say bitcoin's value is $0? LOL. People currently pay $3600 for a BTC, and that's simply because of the supply vs demand. Whereas the USD is the one that actually doesn't cost shit; it's just a piece of paper. People only use it because the government told them to and USD only has value because the government told us so. Whereas in bitcoin, the people or the markets to be specific is the one to decide on what it's value is.

WSJ in general is known to make articles that are out of context and articles that are obviously biased. I personally wouldn't trust their articles.

I don't know what you mean by transactions with BTC is "very limited" and "energy spending". Do you mind expounding your statements?

Bitcoin mining use a lot of electricity to power the ASIC chips needed to hash the complex calculations to mine Bitcoins. I recently saw a article where someone mentioned that mining a single Bitcoin in the USA, cost about $1000. < combined cost >

Bitcoin's price is also not linked to any commodity like gold, because it is simply based on supply and demand in open markets. We do not want to be linked to any other commodity, because they are being manipulated by governments and cartels with lots of money.

The volatility will improve, once Bitcoin is distributed more evenly between more people. ^smile^

I think the author who wrote or state that didn't search and seek for the BTC the current value as of now is above 3k$ so what is that

and also the BTC price will not be equivalent to 0 at all because of the investors who are using them like Bill Gates

and the BTC is unstoppable

that Wall Street Journal article never said these things. you just made a conclusion that was the last thing that article was meant to say. the article was mostly attacking bitcoin and saying it is useless and a waste of energy. the author of that article did not even understand how bitcoin works. which means the article did not worth even wasting your time to read.

and also i should add, just because other things depend on something (like them depending on Gold) does not mean that is the only way things can have value. the real value comes from supply and demand. and the demand for bitcoin is there and that means it has value. the value being above $3000 each and rising with the rising demand.

First of all, link to the article, please? @Herbert2020 is saying you haven't understood it well. So put the link and we can see for ourselves.

Second, what tends to zero is the price of dollar. As time goes by, it gets more and more devaluated so the article is doing the comparison the other way around. In this world, things tend to have the price people are willing to pay for them. Bitcoin is scarce and has an increasing demand, therefore it has a high, increasing, price (with dips, of course). Dollar is more abundant as the FED creates more of it, and, although it has a high demand, that demand doesn’t increase. Therefore, as other fiat currencies, tends to zero in the long term.

How could bitcoin be depending on gold? That makes no sense at all. Bitcoin is decentralized and it's not depending on other currencies, assets or goods, it's depending on the demand and supply and relations on the market. So many articles with false or half true informations appear everywhere and people trust everything they read without any criteria.

apparently you have to log in or something to read the full article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoins-wild-ride-shows-the-truth-it-is-probably-worth-zero-1505760623

but here is the break down: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/wall-street-journal-argues-bitcoin-is-probably-worth-zero-joins-obituary-list/

the article is already added to the list of obituaries: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

The journalist wrote that article doesn't have a background on cryptocurrency that's why he writes it based on what he knows. Maybe he didn't know that USD and EUR value are already not based on Gold. BTC value is based on the supply and demand of the market, It is impossible to become zero value in technical speaking if there are many countries already implementing the used of it.  ;D

There are nearly no hard numbers somebody could use to calculate the true value of a bitcoin.
So to me the true value is whatever the market price for a bitcoin is.

The wsj article claims bitcoin was designed to replace ordinary money. I think that was never the idea.
To me bitcoin was always ment to be used parallel to the fiat system.

In my opinion less than 1% of the population of the USA know what a bitcoin is. Thus in this respect I can agree with what you are saying. To become the true currency of an entire nation much effort has to be done. The number of merchants accepting it has to increase, the number of transaction has to grow up, the network has to be extended, many othet things have to happen. But we are on the good way for this to happen.
 Everythig begins with a step, isn't it?

The value of bitcoin is depend on the people who want it,  for example if I have 1 btc then I offer you to buy it using $5000 but you only agree if the price is $4500, so the price can be determine by the final price that we deal. It is about bargaining.

unless one bitcoin equal one physical  gold bar somewhere then no bitcoin will never be linked  with  gold .There are other coins how ever  looking into doing this however 1 coin equally one gold bar in a vault .There are issues with this storing gold bars cost money and what guarantee they wont be stolen  are the dev running the coin wont steal then  and say they are there .Also what happens when someone whats to cash out there coin for a gold bar?.There lots of issues with this which have not be .It is also going to be centralize so very easy for a government to tax and steal your assets .


Currently bitcoin is like fiat technically the writer is right but the actual value of the dollar is also zero by the same standard ;D

Nothing is linked to gold exept for Fiat money. Banks need to have a certain amount of gold reserve to cover the Fiat (bank notes) amounts.
Bank notes are easily printed but gold is not.

No bud fiat money is no longer based on the gold standard the dollar and the euro anyway or not .That why it is called fiat money.Money that is backed by gold is called gold standard money   

there are a lot of weird articles about bitcoin these days and majority of them (surprisingly coming from same sources as before) are attacking bitcoin one way or another and the same sources were praising it not long ago. and they always go at it with finesse! they quote someone for example.

the articles says someone said "bitcoin will be 100,000 dollar in 2 years"
or they say "probably bitcoin is worth $0".

that way no can never accuse them despite them spreading FUD clear as day.

the price is now above $ 3000 instead of $ 0 and why should it depend on gold when bitcon is now more valuable than gold. although with it will not necessarily be stable with the price that is coming.

Maybe I would agree if bitcoin is based on gold. Although the increase and decrease is not too high but this will greatly help the stability of bitcoin prices. Of course we all want stability because in the future bitcoin will be able to get a better position. A stable bitcoin price will make bitcoin even more reliable. This will greatly help the development of bitcoin to be used officially and also recognized in the world financial system.

Bitcoin does have value, but i don't think anyone can determine the real value of bitcoin itself, because given bitcoin price that always fluctuates from time to time and not yet stable for guessed how much exactly the real value of bitcoin price. Is it likely to be stable in the future and can be said bitcoin is designed to replace fiat currency? i think that's not yet be ascertained the truth.

I do not clearly understand what OP is saying, a link to the article would be very much appreciated. About the value of bitcoin, it is the demand that determines the price, not dollar or gold. It would be nothing / worthless without the demand coming from the community that uses it.

WCJ is fake news.
What is the value of gold? what ever people are willing to pay for it. same for Iphones or a tomato.
Bitcoin value atm is around 3,600$ I dont understand why they say its value is 0 but if they have some bitcoins they are more than welcome to give it to me for free.

What do you guys think about that?

wrong Because btc not depend on $ or gold only simple supply and demand and price will up more 

Bitcoin is a miracle so I think it's just the politics of the Bankers, because they're afraid their current efforts will be replaced by Bitcoin technology advances ..

Am sorry but your article is not a good one. BTC value is zero how do you explain that. I will say a lot of energy is required to achieve some coins being it trade, mine or campaign or what ever service for value but it is still not close to 4k if you ask me. I dont know the kind of work that will pay you that much money

These are the called, get some profit in times of panic when bitcoin is decreasing in value. Bitcoin as it's price against dollar, and it's more valuable than dollar. Well, in order to adapt to a new currency, there will always be some problems that needs to be resolved, like the electricity part. Maybe eco friendly energy used will help in this. The bankers don't want to accept change, as they will lose than the control on people's money. Let's give bitcoin time to grow, and maybe it will become a great asset for all of us.

Rubbish thought. Bitcoin value is now near about $4K. Why did the WSJournal say that? Why does it change on the dollar? BTC future is always bright. In future, it will cross all over currency and coins. Bitcoin will be used by Everybody and Everywhere all around the world.

If they are thinking value is zero, then they are free to gain some bitcoin and distribute it to people who thinks it does certainly have a value.

bitcoin is not depend on $ or gold directly yes but somehow they are linked. bitcoin need users. that helps price rising. if gold price suddenly go down , gold investor will sell their gold position and they will need another solid invest when they decide btc is new gold than they will buy and price will rice. the thing is we btc ''lovers'' unfourtunately dont have such a big money to rise btc price. i remember last week after this chinesse news , some investor in once buy 21.000 btc , than price rised so quickly. so if investor find btc profitable than they will invest in and price will rice and rice.

Everybody know that btc is unstoppable it will go to 10,000USD soon in the end of year and will break another records because bitcoin is made to break records around the world. Because everybody know that bitcoin is unstoppable.

And I have some cheap land in sunny Nicaragua to sell to you ;D

curb this enthusiasm. understand that the price can go to zero; the risk of ruin is real. also understand that if we see a valuation spike like what you described, that would be equally dangerous. we would see regulation and correction EXACTLY like what we are seeing right now.

as far as the value, there is no basis for valuation, or at least we dont ascribe to one. the rampant speculation is why the majority of folks are here, self included. now that ive been along for the ride awhile, im more concerned about longevity. we wont make it far, bitcoin i mean, like this.

the regulation must come. the investor maturity will follow.

Sometimes the thing that "scares" me the most is the financial and economic ineptitude of so many people risking their wealth and welfare in cryptocurencies. This forum is interesting but it's become far too strong an echo-chamber for bullish banter.

Sure, I won't argue in favour of the WSJ article. It's clearly a poor hit-piece with very little merit to it, however it's important to keep a couple of things in mind, and these were true well before the intervention of any media outlet.

1. Bitcoin is materially worthless. It has 0 intrinsic, physical value.
2. Bitcoin's mining system is insanely "wasteful" in terms of energy, and is a scourge to the environment (well, at the moment it pales compared to most energy-intensive industries, however it has potential to spiral out of control, and is inane).

These are simple facts, but neither of these facts spell doom for Bitcoin, not now, not ever. The value of Gold is linked to physical usefulness of the material itself. If all the financial value disappeared from Gold, it would still be worth reasonable value just from that. Bitcoin, in that sense, is closer to diamonds. Physically almost worthless, financially priceless. Bitcoin, however, is "useful" in more practical terms, solves some real-world problems--plenty more than diamonds ever will--and is attributed value because of this usefulness. Mining expenditure comes slightly into play, but isn't really what gives Bitcoin "value".

The energy problem? Eventually Bitcoin--if it survives that is--will change algorithm, and that might be a good time to fix things up in this respect, but this is just future speculation, little we can do about it right now. There are far more pressing problems, especially regarding transaction capacity and speed, but also around security and ease of use that pose much more danger to bitcoin that farm waste ever will.

So, it's true, Bitcoin is worth 0. in fact, it's worth negative money as it's a cost to "make", and a cost to "store", but this is, at the very least in this moment in time, wholly irrelevant.

I think it's bad news, bitcoin value is not dependent on gold and bitcoin prices can not be stable but will always go up if evenly rated, the bitcoin value of the past until now is never 0, now the bitcoin value $ 3600, you see from which side to can say bitcoin value 0.

Don't believe anything you read. The market makes the price. If anyone is willing to pay $50.000 for a single Bitcoin then that is the price. And if no one accepts infinite printed and worthless Dollars anymore, what they are worth then? I don't like articles about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies written by people who don't really understand the market and the possibilities of cyber money.

I agree to you that it maybe also an another bad news and the publisher of this news wanted to buy bitcoin at its lowest price. The news pointed not in reality but in his own view on which can affect also the readers mind.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "if BTC is to change dollar" but ultimately bitcoin's value is going to be whatever people are willing to pay/trade for it in the markets, which right now is pretty well above zero.  :)

I have heard of the idea of giving Bitcoin gold backing with some sort of "Bitcoin 2", presumably through another hard fork or altcoin. In fact Doug Casey mentioned something like this in a recent article:

https://www.caseyresearch.com/doug-casey-on-why-bitcoin-could-hit-50000/ (https://www.caseyresearch.com/doug-casey-on-why-bitcoin-could-hit-50000/)

But then again, even if bitcoin (or a future version of it) ends up being redeemable for gold, people will still look at the value of gold vs. the dollar, so the perceived value of bitcoin could still have significant fluctuation in terms of dollars.

The transactions don't require energy from the person sending or receiving the Bitcoin. The energy is spent by the people confirming the Bitcoin, the bitcoin miners.

Do you have a link for this article that you can share? Saying that "if BTC is to change dollar, its current value is 0" literally makes no sense. Help us by giving us more information.

Thanks.

Real Bitcoin value is a trust between the people delivered by technologies. As well as the anonymity in transactions, so there is no central authority that choose the direction of the moves. Decentralisation is the true value.

I’m not going to say they’re wrong, neither am I going to say they’re right. They said if Bitcoin is going to replace dollar right? Very good bitcoin is not replacing dollar, so the rate is $4000 then lol.

In a way this is kind of making sense. There is how the value of every currencies are calculated, though I can’t explain it, but if bitcoin happens to be made the currency of a particular country, then it won’t even worth up to $50; especially if it’s made the currency of a third world country.

Bitcoin, dollar or gold have the same function in terms of as a medium of exchange, but these three functions are different for different cases, so all will continue to function properly. and bitcoin I think its value will stay good compared to dollar

Calling Bitcoin a miracle might be a bit too much but I do agree that the market or community dictate the value of BTC and it has always been like that not just for crypto but basically for everything else as well.

I guess here we need first to enter the question from the other side: what is the value of dollar? - many understands it is nothing but candy wrapper. dollar value is only in printing it)))

Don't confuse your self on fake news. Bitcoin has  value in dollar, it is already traded in many platform and you can convert it into dollar if you need fiat money.

Every bitcoin transaction need to be confirm by adding it to the public ledger which is blockchain, this procedure need to be done by miners using mining hardware and software,  this mining  setup consumes a lot of electrical energy, that's why it is stated "energy spending" in the article.
BTC price has volatile characteristic which is totally opposite to gold's price characteristic, it will never get stable like gold in future.

Lol. Another cheap attempt at bashing the value of bitcoin. The value of bitcoin depends on a couple factors, them being: supply and demand, mining difficulty and scarcity. If you want to mine a bitcoin it will cost you around 4000$ to do so. Or you can buy one for a slightly higher price. Also the fact that there will only ever be 21 million makes bitcoin quite rare. Especially later down the road. On the other hand governments world wide are just printing money out of thin air. The circulating money isn't backed by their gold reservoir anymore so tell me which one has real value? Bitcoin or fiat?

WSJ is known for click-baits and senseless contents, it's not a surprise they would make something like this. The value of bitcoin will not depend on gold, rather on the market(supply and demand) alone. Though it is not that stable because it can increase and decrease by huge amounts in a very short time, but that's the point of being volatile.

I think bitcoin is so much valuable. In cuyrptocurrecny world we find many coins. All of the coins bitcoin is the best . Bitcoin is like than gold. The price of bitcoin is increasing day by day. Now the price of bitcoin is $11720. In future the price will be increase more than #11720. I love bitcoin so much.

Any attempt to give a real value estimate to bitcoin will be quite subjective. No one can say more or less the exact real cost of bitcoin. We can tie bitcoin to regular currency, the cost of altcoyns and so on. In my opinion, bitcoin is already overestimated at this time. However, according to the laws of the market, its value is determined by the ratio of price and demand for it.

we know bitcoin is a virtual money.and it is now very popular of world.bitcoin value pump day by day.it reason people use it real life and daily life.i hope bitcoin real value very day by day grow up.