Bitcoin Forum

what other catgory on the face of the plant is even worth putting your money into these days anyway?

Bitcoin 8)

i added Real estate, because i think Real estate is a necessary investment for EVERYONE to look to acquire at least 1 of.... everyone needs a nice home to live in
what other investment are good?
post your comments below!

you can either include guns/ammo/food with real estate or it could be seperate

I don't view my gold/silver coins as an investment, just something that should help when things get tough.

Other than that I don't invest, I speculate.

right

Real Estate(Tv,Car,guns,ammo,food)

I own some random silver/gold pieces myself, to me everything i buy kind of is an investment.. because i'm poor   :D

BTC, USD, CAD. That is it.

I do not like:
Stocks (overdue for a crash)
Bonds (really overdue for a crash)
Real Estate (Still has a way to go down, in particular in Canada - Vancouver)
Gold (Short term down plus I already have a good Austrian position in BTC anyway)
Silver (Also going down)


I would consider:

LTC
Short position in stocks a short ETF or possibly a short position in Apple or Monsanto. (I see these as a good choice for a bear looking for an ethical investment. Basically a double negative play).

Real Estate never really goes down..... it might be in a bit of a bubble but in Real Estate terms 20% overvalued is a bubble, in the long run you're sure to make 50% even if you move around alot; why?? because inflation....

I strongly recommend everyone buy some Real Estate. living in an apartment is fine... but a nice house is just better, your not pissing away rent money, and you pay taxes to a government of your choice, here in canada our government realizes that there is room for improvement and is always looking for the best ways to enhance quality of life for all citizens

 MOVE TO CANADA! CANADIAN GOVERNMENT SAYS BITCOIN IS A OK!! ;D

When it comes to real estate owning one's own home is neutral, renting is being short and owning rental property over and above one's home or more than one unit if one is renting is being long. The trouble with real estate is that it is typically heavily leveraged. A house with say 10% down can actually be much riskier than even BTC because one can easily end up with negative equity. Now if one is talking about real estate with well over 50% equity then yes this can be a safe investment. A portfolio of 50% BTC and 50% Government of Canada T-Bills will out perform over time real estate and assets such as stocks, gold, bonds etc., with way less risk.

I am currently renting so technically I am short real estate.

Canada tries hard to be open minded and tolerant. We May be americanized like mad, but we are still a proud people, technically the queen makes or breaks the law here, but we all know its up to the people. GO CANADA, BUY ALL THE BITCOINS!



the bubble popped dude... wtf are you waiting for??? get a girl get a dog make some kids and Love life!!!! BUY BUY BUY!

its not as bad as some people would make you believe

Disclaimer: I recently purchased my first home, so I believe/hope it won't get too much worse.

The Federal Reserve is directly propping up the mortgage market.  We're not out of the clear until financing for the market can stand on it's own.

I'm not sure I'd include TV in there... Those things depreciate way faster than even fiat.

The real risk with real estate particularly in Canada is a rise in interest rates that will push many home buyers right out of the market. It will also place many who gambled with floating mortgages in a very dangerous position particularly if they also are heavily leveraged. This will force prices down in the short term as the weak hands are forced out via foreclosures. What will force this is that the central banks will sooner of later have to back off from quantitative easing. "All cash. No subjects. For clear title" when the seller is facing foreclosure is the way to buy real estate and if one holds on to one's BTC this can easily happen in the next few years. The "cash" will be CAD, BTC or a combination of both.

Now if one goes into real estate for the long term say 50% or more equity and long term (over 5 years for financing the balance) then yes buying one's home now can make a lot of sense. It all depends on the personal circumstances.

35% physical silver
32.5% EUR
30% physical gold
2 % BTC
0.4% LTC
0.1% PPC/NMC/...

Little of gold, silver and stocks; building land; euros  ???

On friday I bought farming land and wood. This will be for food (we spend a lot of money on eco/bio food) and for fire&building wood.
I may even get a (crazy) rabbit and goat.

I'm considering buying a flat and i really like Excalibur crossbows (not for rabbit and goat, but for wild animals in wood).

Right.  Here in the US we have the Fed directly holding down mortgage rates.  When this policy changes we might have some trouble, although obviously the hope is that the economy will improve in the mean time.

I bought my house to live in.  My fiance will be in school here at least 4 more years and we've already been living in our new home a year.  There is a good chance we may stick around here after school, or possibly rent it out to my younger siblings who will be getting close to college age by the time we're both done.  The only debt tied to the house is about 50% of the home's value in a loan from my fiance's parents.  There is no interest or payments while we are in school, so it was a no brainer compared to dumping $7000 a year into rent between the two of us like we did before.

Some of the reasons I am a bear when it comes to Canadian real estate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/06/05/business-oecd-housing.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/06/05/business-oecd-housing.html)

Why do you hold bonds and especially treasuries? It isn't 1981 :)

Holy shit you are a moron! Did you read the news the past few years how real estate has been in a huge bubble?

I speak from personal experience, real estate can go down. I bought a house in 2005, sold it in 2012 for a 70% loss. FML

I think the Permanent Portfolio (self-balancing diversification over stocks/debt/commodity/currency) is a great idea. I think this because I'm a fool who has lost plenty of my savings by betting on this or that stock - I'd rather have a fool-resistant strategy than trust my naïve impression of a "good bet". Also, properly configured, the PP loadout can be used to profit on volatility at every time scale.

That said, I haven't yet moved into the broad ETFs called for by PP strategies, mainly because I am waiting for a good opportunity to exit those bad bets.

My current holdings are about:
$10k in BTC (mostly appreciated from when BTC prices were lower)
$15k in USD (most of it sitting on Mt. Gox or Bitfinex)
$12k in stocks (one tech stock that has been doing poorly in the market despite very good fundamentals, one commodities stock that has pretty good dividends, plus some minor ETF positions)
$10k in REITs (originally chosen to preserve my buying power in case of home market recovery)

In Canada we have not had a recent significant real estate crash yet but this has not always been the case. There was a brutal crash in real estate in the early 1980's in western Canada for example.

32% in Dollars deprecating away.

They're dry powder. I can't profit on the massive swings in BTC valuation without holding something liquid and current. If the best option I can find devalues at 2% a year, well, so be it!

I've been waiting for years for a crash In Canada's real estate.
Until now it has only gone up Up UP!
http://www.housepriceindex.ca/chart2.aspx?mode=index&noville=0&anneede=1995
http://www.housepriceindex.ca/Default.aspx

IMO the next market downturn will crash Canada HARD.

I have some play money on puts for RBC and BMO.
If the market can continue like it did today for another week, I'll be quite happy.  :D

like bitcoin, housing prices only ever go up!  :D

Since we're talking real estate...

I've been thinking about whether buying makes sense vs. renting here in Finland at the moment. One reason I'm doubtful is demographics. When my parents were born, the fertility rate was around 3 children per person, when I was born, it was just above 1.6. In brief, the population is getting old, and my parent's generation seems to me to have been much more eager to buy real estate than their children have been. It's a bit of a morbid calculation to make, but in 20 years time, the generation with the greatest accumulated wealth, including real estate, will largely have died and passed their property on to their children, who are fewer in number. So it seems to make sense to expect housing prices to go down quite a bit by 2030 or so.

The question is, how low will they go? And will they go down everywhere? Cities are growing rapidly here, with real estate valuations showing the expected increase. This trend may well continue regardless of demographic changes.

Currently, in central Helsinki, a 50 sqm apartment seems to rent for 1,100 EUR / month, and can be bought for, roughly, 280,000 EUR. These are rough estimates, and even owning an apartment, you're still looking at close to 200 EUR / month in fees. So calculating from this, and not taking into account future price movements which I have no way of predicting, for the investment it takes to buy an apartment in Helsinki at the moment,  you can rent the same apartment for about 26 years. If you expect prices to keep going up, the calculations look different of course. Still, if I had a bit under 300k EUR to invest in something, I'm really not at all convinced buying myself a place to live would be the best option. I'd guess the effects of this demographic change will start showing in 15 years or so, still a decade away from the equilibrium point of buying vs. renting. If houses go down low enough, renting looks like a pretty good idea to me.

edit:
I'll just leave this here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Europe_population_over_65.png/400px-Europe_population_over_65.png
"Percentage of the population over 65 in Europe"

Well, what are you waiting for?  ;D ;D ;D

edit: jj, I know that all the smart people have tons of fiat sitting on the exchanges ready to go into battle when the time is right.

This could be long, long time.

Seriously? This is your portfolio?

Oh dear.

I just find it weird than on a bitcoin forum, less than 40% have bitcoin in their portfolio...

The poll allows for more than one option so it is not surprising at all.

USA, I guess... only in USA one would count guns as investment  ;D

Some people are expecting Armageddon, if you are: guns and ammunition are by far the best investment.

you should add the option:

invested in pre-order mining

because a lot of money from a lot of forum members is sitting RIGHT THERE