Bitcoin Forum

So now that large Banks and investment firms are starting to get involved, do you think they will try to manufacture crash and correction scares to trigger more doubt and an exodus of "the weak hands"? For some reason I feel like we may see this kind of game play involving bitcoin, unless the exchanges try and do something about it. I know many exchanges have limits to help both themselves and market fluctuations. But imagine a massive sell off that kpe bitcoin at the same price for years or made it go down severely enough to trigger worry among even veteran users.

is this possible?
should more precautions be taken against greedy abuse of the system.
is the system already to resilient to be messed with by them.

thoughts please. :)

getting involved with what?
with bitcoin? where is your reference?
with blockchain technology? that has nothing to do with bitcoin. don't confuse the two.

the manipulations have been happening all along. or maybe you missed all the recent "China banned bitcoin and mining" FUD! or maybe you missed the previous "Bitcoin will split and die" FUD! or maybe you missed other "China banned bitcoin" FUD, or the last year "Bifinex was hacked bitcoin is dead" FUD :D

you see, manipulation is nothing new. you think that JP Morgan CEO who said some BS was not manipulation?

it is possible and it is happening but severity of things like this have a limit. you can't really push price down after some point the same as you can't push it up after some point. there is a whole lot of market, and it becomes harder as it grows bigger.

Of course some market participants (banks or otherwise) will play the game and look for edge. It would be naive to think this is not already occurring in some shape or form, but will obviously increase as the market grows. This should only be of concern to you if you are a trader and basically competing with them. For everyone else who is just holding what they do short term will have no long term bearing on the value of our assets.

Banks are getting involved with block chain technology is because they are interested in it and a unique terminology they haven't seen yet. They want to develop their own crypto and oppose it against bitcoin because they don't like bitcoin but they like block chain at the same time, such a wuss, officials from centralized institutions turn out to be in real life.

I don't think the users will appreciate the involvement of banks since it is one of the main reason why people use bitcoins, to have freedom. If the banks can greatly affect the value of BTC, users might not like using it anymore.

Banks and other financial institutions consider bitcoin as a threat to their economy since the appearance of a transparent blockchain only makes their corrupted nature more visible. That is why they also cannot accept blockchain technology in their work as well. So they will pay people or themselves work to tear down the image of bitcoin and use scare tactics to make people sell bitcoin and get out of the market. This has been happening for a long time and then people are nowadays becoming more tolerant towards such propaganda. People assume these things to happen and only buy more bitcoin during dips and this is good for the economy.

(I apologize as i've just gotten of work so i'm in a short answer mood)
No where in my first post I never uttered the words blockchain I know the difference.

JP Morgan has bought some bitcoin, it's all over the forums and reddit and apparently was verified on the ledger. if i'm wrong someone speak up and i'll withdraw this statement. Other banks are on the sidelines considering or putting plans in the works. As for the open ended question, the whole post is about bitcoin on a bitcoin forum, what could they possibly be getting involved in, I bet you it's probably bitcoin.

Getting away from this snarky tone.

Basically they do in fact have the power to buy into bitcoin, my question is does that mean they have the power to boost and dump, that would create far more severe peaks and valleys than we've seen before as opposed to the somewhat gently ones we've seen even considering the 300% rise this year. me personally i'm holding till the cows come home bull or bear market. They have the billions to do such a move is what i'm saying. now at what rate, I don't know. that's something to ask exchanges.

I am worried the banks will try to make one of a few self fulfilling prophecies, and they haven't shown their true strength. Right now they are whining like preschoolers and I hope it stays that way. I worry too about people leaving because of their involvement when it comes to negative actions. I see bitcoin as fairly resistant to it for a whole host of reasons, but is it resistant to a massive 1 billion dollar sell off by one entity? That's more of what i'm worried about.

the thing is bitcoin market is big and it is still getting bigger. "banks" getting involved will be one force in the market, alone. unless they can come up with a way to pool all their resources together and do something in the same direction, it is impossible to manipulate bitcoin more than usual.

also in my opinion when you talk about involvement and manipulation you should also consider their benefit. they don't just do stuff. crashing a market can also mean no recovery, you lose a lot of money if that happens. pumping a market can also mean crash and no recovery and you lose a lot of money again.

It is impossible for banks to manipulate Bitcoin. Bitcoin is decentralized. Therefore, banks has no control over it. Aside from that, banks are against Bitcoin. They hate its concept because it is their mutual enemy. I cannot see any possibilities that banks can manipulate Bitcoin even in the future. In fact, Bitcoin can possibly overcome banks.

Unless a big bank comes up with a million BTC buy in, it is almost impossible to control and manipulate the price of BTC. I've read instances of banks actually trying to do this kind of a move and have miserably failed in their attempt and ended up settling for a significant loss. Opposing the decentralisation system, any attempts at assessing authority will end up in huge losses for whoever tries.

very interesting! I was wondering if you can link me to a post or tell where you observed this. I would love a fun read haha.

in some countries like China, it is illegal for banks to invest in bitcoin. (this was a law set in motion back in 2011ish). possibly in other places too.

additionally things that are considered manipulation of any market is considered highly illegal in almost all countries. and this is a serious financial crime.

with these said, it is not easy for banks which are heavily regulated and watched to enter bitcoin market and try to manipulate it. and banks' money is borrowed money. it is not their own which makes it worse!

The price of the entire market , BTC and all alt coins , is now totally controlled by one large blue whale who have many tens of billions of dollars to play with and this whale is skimming massive profits using trading bots/volatility software. I would say that 90% plus of all of the trading volume is the whales creating activity in the market place. The exchanges allow these whales to operate on their platforms b/c it is more profit for them. See topic below.


The Truth about Cryptocurrency

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1931694.0

Maybe you're right but what difference does it make. People who have the ability to trade on the bitcoin exchange happy that the roller coaster can make good money and they are not whales. B prevents will learn to understand the trends and copy the behavior of robots if there are any.

Inwould have thought that the markets are being manipulated
to some degree either directly and/or indirectly.

I dont know but maybe as the market gets bigger its harder
To manipulate or the effects wont be as severe, thats just
Me thinking out loud, i have no scientific proof for this  :-\

All markets are manipulated so Bitcoin will not be an exception.

And since private banks can create money without any backup would be easy for them to manipulate but as BTC gets mature will be more difficult for them.

agree you can still trade following trends to make profit.

They won't actually need scare stories - the banks have so much money in their propritary trading accounts they can move the price by themselves without needing weak hands to do it.

They're super whales if you like.

Let me tell you bitcoin and banks are real enemy of each other and banks will try to create conflicts against bitcoin for sure. No doubt bitcoin is being used by big firms and exchanger to make their ways easier through the transaction portal. But there are banks who comes in the picture when the transaction is to be made into fiat currency. They will just bring up all the questions against the the transaction do that they can not allow the system to flow in multidirectional ways.


Exchangers can not and will never be able to do anything about it in the first place because they are already outlawed by regulatory authorities. So for them it's like nil before me situation and they will just get manipulated by the big bankers. Who knows where this will lead in the future.

I do not see that the whale who has the bot , whether it is a bank/s ,hedge fund/s , or whoever will let the market grow past a certain point before they crash it time and time again to grab the profits to pay investors .Then at the bottom they also buy up a lot of the cheap coins and play the game again. With the volume of money at their disposal to play with they have complete control.

Yeah because BTC starting divulge their shitty business were they are just using depositors money to earn much more money, I f some law makers say that BTC is just A money laundering, then what they can say about loan shark banks that sprouting all over the globe are they not money launderer?

Bitcoin's existence began to threaten several major banks. They are trying to hold back the progress of Bitcoin. but they are aware that technology can not be stopped by force.
So many banks have chosen to join Bitcoin. and that you ask if the Bank can manipulate Bitcoin and my answer, for now, is yes. but I can not give a reason now.

I don't think its possible. And how exactly will they go about centralizing blockchain? max they can do is interefere when the crypto is converted into fiat currency. but if world comes to a state where everything is directly dealt with in crypto then i think banks will totally loose their power to monopolize. BTC is here to stay!!

I said that generally because I personally never heard of any involvement of banks with bitcoin itself other than its technology. they always talk about making their own. not investing in bitcoin.
and in some places it is not even legal for them to invest in an unregulated bitcoin market.

the JP Morgan thing was something open for debate I guess. some say it was their platform and they are buying bitcoin on behalf of their clients. that is what we saw in that screenshot on that Swedish website. I don't know how true or wrong this is, I just wanted to put it out there.
I personally think JP Morgan has invested in bitcoin, whether what we saw was it or not doesn't matter.

my opinion is that if banks do such things they will do it for profit, in which case the question is that "is bitcoin really that profitable for them compared to other things they do legally that makes them do this"
because they can not "kill bitcoin", the price doesn't matter even if they unload 1 billion dollar on the market, price will bounce bad up fast. market being small actually works both ways in this case.

I don't think that there will be a manipulation in bitcoin by the banks because we all know that the bitcoin is full decentralized so anyone cannot do anything that they want in bitcoin because it is untouchable and no one have right to do something in bitcoin like manipulating. People will do their best to defend bitcoin in any kind of manipulation and even the banks cannot surpass.

Depends, If there's a strong urge of individual or agency to counterfeit the system's of bitcoin, maybe they could find solutions to manipulate bitcoins in banks, There's always a saying " If there's a will, There's a way" . The issue still hanging but the answer may found in the future, So lets wait what comes next.

I would rather we realized that banks are really not the enemy of Bitcoin, they're businesses out to make profits which ever way they can, only they have to constantly look over their shoulders, not to offend their masters - the central banks! Most of the central bank are the arch enemy of Bitcoin and anyone here that doesn't know yet, deserves not to be here in the first place!


Bitcoin have proven to be a very speculative tool and I would be taken aback if the banks could afford to sit on the fence, watching such profit making opportunity to pass-by.

As for manipulating the market, that's nothing new and it mustn't  take a bank to do so, even if you and I have millions of Bitcoin, our sell and buy orders will likewise jolt the market, but then that would only last for just a while and the market soon absorbs that constrain and move on. That is a reason we should all be doing our own bits to maintain a healthy and robust community, where decentralization is our most formidable weapon.

The holy grail for a greedy hedge fund is to corner the market, or something like that.  If you control the supply, you control the price.  And bitcoin has a hard cap on the amount of supply.  I am a bit worried that large funds may enter bitcoin and manipulate the price.  Its not that hard since liquidity isnt all that deep, which is why we get all these swings.  there is a lot of volume, but its mostly algorithmic trading and not all of it is "real", i.e. lots of wash trades I think.  So they spend millions and millions buying up a lot of bitcoin, and then they can dump them all at once, crashing the price, buy back lower, profit.  Or the big trade, buy everything, then pump the price.  In that case I'm on board because the price will skyrocket.  but what goes up too fast...

this strategy won't work in my opinion.
because if you dump a lot of bitcoin on the market you just temporarily crash the price. there has actually been examples of this. i remember Coinbase crashed down to 10 cent or something like that a couple of months ago. and it did not even last more than a couple of minutes before everyone bought the ULTIMATE cheap coins. and price jumped back up to where it was before!

Point of correction, large banks and investment firms are not starting to get involved, they are already involved and everyone is trying to make the best out of the current situation.

Whether they will manipulate or not, any person in bitcoin knows that the volatility of price will need to be attached to one reason and when  we can't find any reason, we give credit to the whales without knowing who they are I.e it could also be the banks that you are making reference to which also leads to the fact that the manipulation has been ongoing.

What to do to curb or stop it, its based on individual resolution not to be used as pawns in the scheme of things. Get understanding and never be ruled by emotions because that will be the worst decision after all.

What I think is that the involvement of the investment firms in the next segwit2x, this move has been opposed that could possibly make bitcoin as what it is or in short a centralized effect, and this could possibly start manipulations. what I see is the coin split and which coins miners bring their hashes will be the winner. hope the Real bitcoin will win, the decentralized bitcoin that we all been patronizing.

I don't think banks can do that because they don't have any control over the bitcoin. Bitcoin has a very unique feature that makes it very hard to control its very private even tracing the ownership will be very difficult unless the government will conive with these banking institutions

For me, regular dumps are no problem. If whales can earn a lot of money, what prevents you to do the same? Yes you will earn less than they are because you don't have millions of dollars, but you earn anyway. A bigger problem will be when bitcoin stabiliziruemost and speculative capital will leave bitcoin. It can really derail bitcoin or kill him.

This is really happening. Who is financing the exchanges margin trades? If not banks then they should be something big. Margin trades are the reason why FUD and corrections should happen. Look at how rigged forex trading is.

Who else? There's no doubt that they are the manipulators. Most of the banks are against bitcoin. And everytime bitcoin is pumping they creating some drama. And media sensationalized it and caused panic to people and sell their bitcoins. This cause the bitcoin price dumped. They take advantage of the dips to get some cheaper bitcoins. Remember JP Morgan Chase's Jamie Dimon, he said that bitcoin is fraud. The price goes down huge. But they were caught buying at the dip. Anyway their drama works.
Manipulators are the big players of bitcoin. I think they just paid those guys to manipulate the price, in my opinion.

By banks, you mean government's.!! The authority is pissed off with cryptocurrencies. Decentralization will end the hold which government's have on people. They'll eventually create their own coins or do something to harm crypto.

You do not know that bitcoin is not affiliated to any countries. The creator of it is Satoshi Nakamoto. And he is anonymous. Nobody in this world know him that well. Because of the fact that he is using his anonymity. By that nobody can control him in his works on bitcoin. Even if it is good or bad nobody can own him, so as bitcoins.

I don't feel all the countries will ever join as a single force to ban Bitcoin which could cause a massive dumping of it. Rather banning of it is rare case and won't contribute much in its price decrease.
Bitcoin already has large strong community. Certain tension from specific areas like from China in September isn't capable of affecting it at large. As sooner or later, community works as one hand and help it recovering from dumps. Bitcoin has recovered from $2.8k to $4.5k in just 10-15 days.

It is highly possible and probably ongoing right now. Margins in trading is an easier access to these kinds of strategy. Rich and greedy people have always find their own ways to make the most of loopholes. They are going to manipulate pumps and dumps as well because of their very large holdings.

Marginal trading is totally new experience for crypto traders and leverage will kill their profits in blink of eye. That's why big banks and financial inistituions hire experienced individuals to soar their profit.

i would not agree in future any group such as bank corp possible controlling bitcoin value and manipulation it
these would be will harm the crypto as its dependencies

maybe it can be happened, the bank manipulation the demand of bitcoin, so they will control the price where they want and when they need. maybe it happened to china, and it will be happen to any country on this world

There will always be attempts to manipulate the market using whatever tactics that are available to the attackers but Bitcoin is the honey badger of money and does not care about banks. Look at the price after all the FUD recently.

Banks supporting bitcoin is always suspicious it's better if you don't invest just because some famous bank referred it to you they are surely planning a attack on bitcoin by finding out who all invested and maybe then ask proof of purchase there are many risks when bank interfere it's better if you stay away

Mir ist aufgefallen, dass bitcoin und ether fast den gleichen Kursverlauf haben.
Ist dieses Zufall, oder sind hier bigplayer, die mit Computerprogrmmen, die Kurse
manipulieren
Kann mir jemand hierfür eine Erklärung liefern.

Maybe, manipulation can be possible if they will invest in bitcoin and some altcoins. They have the money for an investment.

 They musty own so much bitcoin in order to manipulate it and that i doubt because bitcoin is  so decentralized even with the stocks people are having in their wallets. You can not easily have about 20% or even more of all bitcoins in the world, not even Satoshi has that and so it's going to be difficult for them to manipulate the prices

Banks can manipulate bitcoin, I agree that bank is centralized and bitcoin oppose the system. What can banks do is to make regulation or ban bitcoin exchagers with govt. The question is whether all govts will ban bitcoin? Not all countries agree to ban bitcoin. Japan against China, so bitcoin will be bitcoin the decentralized financial system that will run through all borders.

bitcoin a big enemy for the bank, so the bank wants to destroy bitcoin. bitcoin has a huge effect on the banks, but whichever bank wants to destroy bircoin will not work. bitcoin now stands very solid, though the whole country has not officially launched bitcoin, but bitcoin is already widely used by people all over the country.

Of course some involved such as the market (bank or other) will play games or look for busyness and seek excellence. It would be no mistake to think this has not happened in some form or form, but it certainly will increase as the market grows. This is of course only your concern if you are a trader and they compete with them.

yeah, banks want to destroy "bircoin" but bitcoin is what they love.
did you know that because of bitcoin banks have been making a lot more money than before! go check out the bitcoin trading volume of different exchanges. a big portion of it is the money flowing in and out of exchanges. all this money is going through banks and banks take a lot of profit because of these transactions. meaning profit.

The banks will not have a chance against bitcoin because bitcoin is so powerful and because of its decentralization it cannot be destroyed or manipulated by the people around and even the banks cannot do it and the only thing that they can do is opposite from destroying and that is coping the world of bitcoin with their traditional system and continue serving without eliminating any threats like bitcoin.

Neither banks nor big whales could manipulate bitcoin market here after.Bitcoin market has grown vigorously over the past years and it has crossed the boundaries of nations.It has users almost world wide.Its also extensively increasing.Bitcoin is no more an altcoin market in which the marketcap will be very low and so manipulation could be easily done if we have a considerable amount of bitcoins.

Banks have considered bitcoin as their rival.They would not even think of investing such a huge amount to buy large number of bitcoins to manipulate the market.Even if they do so,eventually they would have to loose their dumped bitcoins to the hands of people from various parts of the world since bitcoin has a huge buy wall.That idea would be stupid to do.

What banks could do is to continuously criticize that bitcoin is used for illegal activities and money laundering.One step ahead,it can influence big industrialists or investors to tweet that bitcoin is a total waste or a fraud as we saw earlier in Jamie dimon's case.

Yes they might do if we go higher enough in price, current figures are worth their time in crashing the market, we need to hit trillion dollar market cap first.  Remember manipulated markets are great because it shows the asset is worth manipulating, assets which are worth little get no attention.

I also think banks and bitcoins have different rules, although both are the same in terms of functions as a medium of exchange but their different uses so both have their respective advantages and disadvantages so that both will support each other with cooperation.

I think Bitcoin will be manipulated by bank or financial regulatory body. There have been talks about it in our country about some regulations or restrictions, but banks restrictions or regulation which might hamper the USP of Bitcoin might not be praised by users.

Even possibility of manipulation is there by various activities, which might turn positive or it can be negative as well.

Banks are rally concerned about the growing importance of bitcoin.It has been a direct threat for their revenues from transaction services.But,i don't think that they would do such stupid acts of buying huge volume of bitcoins to dump at once.Even if they do so,then they would be the ultimate losers as there is a huge buy wall to buy bitcoins.So,they would not be able to manipulate the bitcoin price.

They might try other methods like spreading FUD by influencing media and by releasing tweets from persons who are on top of economic bodies like jamie dimon.

But manipulation by banks will takes the control the bitcoin and other altcoins right so how we can expect the growth in market place supply and in price wise.

There are some decentralized banks has been announced from the past 6 months but none of the were successful to continue their service with the profit. May be in future we can expect the bitcoin to reach to banking.

It is more that "possible" mate, it is already happening. those greedy market makers are trying so hard to not to lose the game or in worst case get involved to game before it is too late.

I would say that at the very least, many of the worst parts of their manipulations. (the things that caused the recession) were caused by processes mostly outside the realm of exchanging bitcoin. The main one being, buying crappy assets, selling them to a middle man and betting against them all with giant amounts of leverage(a massive unsupportable margin) all estimated by derivatives. Since they don't control bitcoin it's nearly impossible for them to be that far gone into screwing people over.

there nothing to impossible to manipulate by banks, bankers hate bitcoin for the insecuirty someday if the bitcoin goes on the top for all currency and bitcoin banks riased at al nation in the world, crypto currency replace the traditional.

Actually i disagree if the bank get involving into bitcoin. Since we use bitcoin because the decentralized without bank involve on it.
But i think some banks in the world have been involving not only now. But we can see bitcoin is still stable. They can just make small fluktuation on market.

It will be harder for them to manipulate Bitcoin value the more holders there are. For now, I don't think banks will want to touch Bitcoins. There's a lot of money involved in it, but there are too few users.

of course, banks have predicted that in the future bitcoin will have more value than investing in the bank system.
this is what will change the future financial situation.
I also agree that if the bank will be involved then it will not happen, but if the individual group of bankers who have high finance involved this may happen in manipulate bitcoin price.