Bitcoin Forum

Miners are selling their block rewards, but not enough buyers to balance it, it does not look good. Unless less miners mine, but this scenario does not look good too. ?

Currently, the price of Bitcoin Cash >300 USDT.

Yeah it's starting become irrelevant even more quickly than I had imagined it would. Think about it though, their development has to real leadership - no real vision.

Indeed, from the beginning bitcoincash never look good,  alot of people just used the opportunity to earn extra money, most of them never think bitcoincash as a valuable coin, so there was a huge selling after people got it, but I am surprised that it still can stay in top 5, but I think it wont survive for a long time

Panic selling is a sign of nearing the last leg of the selloff to find a bottom north of $240 probably.

Sell moar (to the whales).

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I believe in Bitcoin cash. Bitcoin cash only increase the size to 8 MB blocks (according to Satoshi's whitepaper), but problems in the algorithm to adjust the difficulty of the mining (Emergency Difficulty Adjustment mechanism). So, If the algorithm is fixed, Bitcoin Cash will survive.

I do not know if the development team of Bitcoin Cash is fixing?

The way bitcoin is train is going it will be hard for bitcoin cash to stay above $300. I personally Believe that We won't see total disappearance of bitcoin cash, its just not possible unless all miners agree to abandon it and all users decide not to use it ever again, The chances of this happening are very slim. Bitcoin's fork will always have some value just because they have bitcoin attached to it. Many will use this name for scamming purposes especially in the developing countries, imagine scamming people by giving them bitcoin cash instead of bitcoins. This will always keep a market for Bitcoin forks imo.

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If the upcoming segwit2x has problems I think Bitcoin Cash will be interested investors. I was also surprised that Bitcoin was in the top 5.

with bitcoin price rising all the altcoins are getting dumped hard. it is perfectly normal to see a downward trend like this in the altcoin market. and most altcoins are also seeing a panic sell which even increases the depth they are going to go down.

in case of BCH it is the same dump but i really doubt it can disappear this soon. it is a shitcoin without a doubt, but even shittiest of shitcoins stay around for a much longer time that this.
there will be a pump pretty soon, i am sure of it. specially with the Segwit2x thing on the horizons.

It is clear that the bitcoin cash never disppear until this plane disappear!
the crypto  is big part of Internet now,  if Internet exit ,bitcoin exit!

The miners will probably fight to keep the EDA and not change the algorithm because it allows them to really fast blocks, doing little work verifying little to no transactions giving them cheap coins to dump.  

If they fix the algorithm, then the problem becomes why would miners support the chain where they are losing money?  The EDA is what is keeping BCH alive!




Why not?  The EDA and the fact that there are people still buying BCH is keeping BCH alive.  Once it becomes not profitable enough even with the EDA or a change to the EDA, then who is going mine BCH out of charity?!!  

I think if there is a fork, the chance of BCH dying becomes even a bigger possibility because it will be competing with 2 other Bitcoin chains which are much more valuable.  Which miners are going to support BCH out of charity?  There is probably going to be miners chain jumping, manipulation of difficulty between the three chains and a whole shitshow.  A S2X fork isn't good for any Bitcoin.  It's the worst for BCH because it's the lowest value chain and it could kill it.  

Bitcoin cash was never to be in the first place. The idea of having bitcoin alternative which isn't bitcoin neither a altcoin" though many people refer to be bitcoin cash as an altcoin" is unnecessary! I have not use bitcoin cash and many people I know haven't either may be this is the end of the road for bitcoin cash

Yes i think it will disappear. I watch jaynemesis (a famous crypto-investor at etoro (http://etoro.tw/2xyJ08F)) on twitch from time to time and he keeps on repeating all the time that bitcoin cash is irrelevant and should not be kept in the wallet because it has no use and will disappear. He's obviously right about that.

That is a good point.  BCH is a fork and not an altcoin in a sense and competing for the same hashpower as a higher value Bitcoin.  Satoshi thought that if there was a fork, the hash would go to the higher value chain and the other would die.  I don't think he saw this crazy EDA being implemented to save a fork.  But that is causing high inflation, driving the price down and when there is there is no block mined for a long time for chain that claims to be fast.  This may eventually kill it anyway.

I do understand BCH supporters wanting a Bitcoin without Segwit and with bigger blocks.  It's crazy that they are supporting Segwit2X fork which is going to mean BCH has to compete against 2 higher value chains which makes BCH's already big problems even worse.  

BCash has good development team, with great support from exchanges and wallets, so it can not die. But the problem is that BCash is not making a profit for miners.

I think that BCH will good when: remove EDA and tranfer DA (like Bitcoin).

This algorithm is only suitable when Bitcoin Cash inherits bitcoin's difficulty on 1.8.

The miners will dump and and the price will be decrease as fast as possible and i think that the bitcoin cash will disappeare caused by the adjument of its difficulty to give the more easy way to mine it.

all the useless altcoins disappear sooner or later. and bitcoin cash is no exception.


the only reason miners added EDA was to make profit by playing it. and they have done it perfectly so far and made a lot of profit from doing it too.
they won't remove something they want and they added themselves.

If they do not fix the problem of Bitcoin Cash so it will die.... https://cash.coin.dance/blocks/today.

Currently, Bitcoin Cash's transactions is minimal. This is very bad with Bitcoin Cash, the profitability of mining Bitcoin Cash is not.

I think there is a 60-70%+ probability Bitcoin Cash will get a massive boost in November, because of this issue:

Segwit2x and Bitcoin Cash target mostly the same public (big blockers). I believe that Segwit2x will have a hard time to win the fork battle in November. Only if the whole NYA "cartel" keeps supporting it and they can maintain >80% of the hashrate then Segwit2x has a chance against "Bitcoin Core" to become "the Bitcoin".

But if Segwit2x fails to become the "primary" Bitcoin chain, then it will very likely disappear relatively fast. Why? Because it is not really what most Big blockers want. It's a very moderate compromise for them, and if it isn't successful in becoming "the Bitcoin", then Big blockers will very likely support Bitcoin Cash massively.

I view Bitcoin Cash as an experiment and not as a serious Bitcoin competitor. But I still have my "airdrop coins" and will hold them until November because I think it's likely they will appreciate.

Thank you very much. I'm an fan and investor of Bitcoin Cash. You have a nice day!

And you know this was Bitmain’s plan all along to feign support for SegWit, but kill it in multiple steps.

The first step is yes killing 2x. The NY agreement was always a farce that fails in November. That was part of the plan.

The second step is attacking SegWit (http://archive.is/yPH9c).

Going to be a lot of shocked people around here when BCH hits $1500, just like when someone said buy LTC at $6 and it hit $85.

It is possible but probably because of the rise of bitcoin due to the fork new coin bitcoin gold. As I am not interested in short term profit. They all are meaningless for me.

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I'm sorry to said that: Bitcoin Gold is a joke.
Don't have support from: Wallets, Exchanges, Replay protection ....

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Thank you very much.

I known that: Recently, f2pool withdrew from NYA, have ~ 80% support for Segwit2x.

Following quotes are paraphrased to hide identity.


When the community decides to support a HF, that is also destroying immutability. But the 51% attack to take already confirmed SegWit donations is not even possible if users do not use a brain dead SegWit wallet which issues “pay to anyone” transactions. It is the creation of SegWit wallets which has enabled a booty to pile up which enables a 51% attack. That is why I said SegWit wallets are a security attack on Bitcoin. Yet you somehow think the drunk-on-koolaid community is important.

Your delusions about community are hilarious. You drink your slave masters’ koolaid.

There is no consensus until the whales have voted. The whales have not voted yet, they’re waiting for the SegWit booty to pile up.

There’s no damn way the whales are going to allow that SegWit crap. Absolutely zero. Blockstream is a gimmick to take BTC from fools who are fooled by the concept of democracy applied to cryptocurrency.

You claim you are for immutability but then you talk out two sides of your mouth in a duplicitous manner.

Are you for immutability or not?

The whales are. Go against them at your peril.

Do you really think those whiny faggots at Blockstream are relevant? The devil at Trilema who loves porn is in control (well he and other whales who hate democracy and love immutability). And you hate it don’t you because he is so immoral? Cryptocurrency is not about any one person’s morals. It is about protocol and game theory. Please. Understand. This.


There is no hardfork required for miners to take the SegWit donations ongoing. The hardfork is only to collect and double-spend the SegWit that was already confirmed in blocks. But even this “51% attack” is entirely legal in the protocol. A 51% attack is not an illegal outcome. The protocol is a competitive game theory and there is nothing illegal when adhering to the protocol. Not even immoral. Perfectly just.

You do not seem to understand that what ever is legal in the protocol is just and right and good. The law is the protocol, not your wishy-washy ambiguous idea of what the community decided.

The SegWit that is being issued is “pay to anyone”. Miners taking that while conforming to Satoshi’s protocol is not equivalent to mutating the protocol (in Satoshi’s protocol the SegWit transactions are “pay to anyone”). It is entirely within the protocol. Whereas increasing the money supply limit would change the protocol. So you’re incorrect to equate the two as functionally equivalent. One is protocol legal, the other is protocol illegal.


Incorrect. You can’t equate any fork to Satoshi’s protocol because no fork is ever final. This is why only Satoshi’s protocol can ever be the winner. Nothing else has any certain lasting stability. If the community idiotically approves a new protocol which creates a booty to fund a 51% attack, why are they surprised when their consensus is not stable? Lol. Really you’re smarter than this aren’t you.

You fundamentally do not understand that proof-of-work is never final. It is probabilistic. There is never any final community consensus.

You have some basic holes in your understanding of Byzantine systems. There are systems such as Byzantine Agreement which do reach finality but they have a liveness threshold and can stall. Proof-of-work is probabilistic and can never stall (unless there are no miners at all so we can say the liveness threshold is asymptotically ~0), but it is never final. My new decentralized ledger algorithm is also probabilistic but it is not proof-of-work and it is not proof-of-stake. It is something totally new which scales better, can’t be subverted by the whales, and which does not consume electricity.


No you fail to understand. The SegWit is going to be removed from BTC by miners taking it as donations, because flies go to honey and miners go to profitability of booties.

BCH is only going to benefit in that while BTC is being attacked, it will be a safe haven. And also for big blockers who do not want to return to 1MB as the SegWit scaling lie is totally obliterated.


Lol. Look at the Rube Goldberg machine they’ve created which is all for making donations to the miners and they’ve sold you the users on the idea that it is technological astute.  :D  :D  :D


I also told everyone in my private group that BTC would go back up to $5100+ before the alts started moving back up. Which is precisely what happened.

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Follow-up discussion excerpted only for the most important parts and also again paraphased to conceal writing style:



Well in the case of SegWit is very simple. The reality is that SegWit creates a booty that incentivizes (funds!) a 51% attack. The Bitcoin whitepaper states the security assumption that miners will not have the private keys to most transactions otherwise the security is destroyed. So SegWit is a direct attack on Bitcoin’s original security model.

Other bug fixes to Bitcoin which were apparently accepted by The Real Bitcoin, apparently improved security not weakened it.

My stance is that any other changes are altcoins and should not be marketed as Bitcoin. If we want to improve a cryptocurrency then airdrop it and fork it. But name it something else. Do not cheat like Blockstream did and force a contentious fight which to some extent arguably stalled the entire sector for 2 years.

Cryptocurrencies that have ongoing developers (and able to be exchanged for other currencies not just spent on goods & services so thus having an expectation of capital appreciation) are securities and have to be regulated. See the new SAFT whitepaper which I recently analysed for more on that.


If the initial protocol has not been designed to be secure against 51% attacks, then its not viable. And this is why I explained recently at the inception of this discussion about SegWit, that long-term proof-of-work is not viable.

My point is that the ability of the community to HF is design flaw of proof-of-work. And it will get worse as transaction fees rise relative to block rewards, for the game theory research reasons I recently shared.


SegWit was a HF. Any fork which continues where SegWit forked off, is Satoshi’s protocol. So the former is an altcoin and the latter is Bitcoin.

Actually afaik the “pay to anyone” aspect of SegWit is compatible with Satoshi’s protocol (and allows the miners to take them as donations) and thus really any fork containing SegWit transactions is not a HF, except that SegWit also included other changes which required a HF. In any case, a fork which accepts SegWit transactions as donations is not a fork of Satoshi. Thus no HF ever occurred. SegWit is the only HF here in this case.

Any HF which funds and basically forces economically returning to the former protocol is self-defeating and responsible for its own demise.

So the objectivity here is that the possibility of HFs remove all objectivity. Thus the ability of 51% attacks creates subjectivity and thus the only objective solution is that all HFs should be considered altcoins. No anointing by politics. All dispute is solved economically in free markets when all HFs compete against each other as altcoins.

Any one who wants to create new functionality can airdrop to an altcoin or create an altcoin with an entirely new distribution.

Otherwise all we have is discord. Creating altcoins enables the market to vote with its money. Nobody should be anointed except by the market. Blockstream employed deception and other tactics to try to subvert the free market process, but they are going to have their heads handed to them on a silver platter as they deserve for their inept and corrupt malfeasance.

The free market works.


True only because Rube Goldberg machines self-destruct.

In software adding complexity can never be slowed down (it is like a snowball that requires more and more fixes and changes) except by extricating the cancer. So your assumption was misplaced on the face of it, but you’re rescued by the fact that complexity bloat is complete failure in software engineering and will thus cause immutability by self-destruction.

It is not a matter of if it is a matter of when, and that is going to happen when people finally stop buying the block rewards from a blockchain that is there doing nothing, after that the miners are going to abandon the coin and we can forget about that altcoin forever.

Yes, I think it will disappear, and I've thought that from the start. The massive initial pump really surprised me though. What I've learned from that is just how potent pure speculation can be.

even with all that support and manipulation bcc couldn't resist 2 months. i think same thing will happen to bitcoin gold definently.

You haven't seen anything yet for that coin. It has been known right from the onset they won't really go that far.

Surprisingly though, they are still pushing it real hard and I am kinda looking forward to how long they are going to keep doing all their market pumps. Yet, I still don't always want to give up on most coins anyway but for being an attack on satoshi gospel, I gave up on this one.

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I think that people invest in the "Bitcoin" name and if they read the Bitcoin's whitepaper so they will see Bitcoin Cash cover Satoshi's vision.

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Thank you very much. I have a questions:

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-cash/blocks --> There are some blocks that contain very small number of transactions but blocks are still over 1MB. I do not understand?. Is it a spam attack?

I view Bitcoin Cash as an experiment and not as a serious Bitcoin competitor. But I still have my "airdrop coins" and will hold them until November because I think it's likely they will appreciate.

Bitcoin cash indeed cannot compete with real bitcoin because of the market size difference, bitcoin at the moment is having the largest market in the crypto kingdom. As far as bitcoin cash existence is concerned, there are many altcoins which are more popular than bitcoin cash. Bitcoin cash is unable to give any particular famous coin a tough time. It is not a competitor in the crypto world at all.

Bitcoin Cash is back. Target 500 USD ---  ;D ;D ;D

This is perfectly possible, although I'm not so sure like you.


If this "destructive" attack really works (if I understood that right, an 51% cartel would be needed, at least), then I imagine that it will trigger a hard fork (supported by Core) with the "nuclear option" (=change to an ASIC-unfriendly algorithm). So some of the value could be saved if this chain has good support.

The "original Bitcoin" price would then fall very, very low (nobody would want the "chain where everything can be stolen"), and so it's likely the attack would be not profitable at all for the attackers. But maybe that's OK for them, because they profit from the BCH price increase.

Hm. You could be right and that situation is really dangerous ...

I have seen alot of Bcash promoter here trying to lure people to buy into the coin, I think BCash is a lost project, thanks to Bitcoin where its derive its value from, is now left for Roger and co to create the path for their baby, but me I won't touch it

There will be a little limitations here and there as no human system is perfect and bitcoin cash will ever get it own limitations. I have been thinking that we should see this market as a very large one and all the coins will survive in future as cryptocurrencies market has a great potential. Bitcoin cash is not going to disappear just like that I think it market capitalization is still above  $5b and I think the four top cryptocurrencies to invest right now. We hope in future bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold will become a great competitors and both will provide significant business opportunities.

I completely believe that bitcoin cash is really irrelevant but I don't agree with people saying that it will disappear. Miners won't allow it to disappear. It is one of the good altcoins carrying bitcoin's chain.