Bitcoin Forum

Natural money is the solution to many modern problems!

Friends, we think that development of a decentralized and a digitalized economy is a modern challenge for many countries, since states lose exclusive control over monetary policy. Adaptation and compliance with the requirements of time is one of the tasks of progressive societies. The scientific and practical association Jus Naturale (https://jusnaturale.com/en/) sees launching a self-regulating tax system based on the state crypto currency, which we call Natural Money (https://jusnaturale.com/en/ideas/natural-money/), a way out for countries in this situation. The idea of Natural Money is a modern interpretation of the Silvio Gesell free-money idea. It is natural money in conjunction with online clearing systems like GEO (http://geo-project.github.io/) that could solve many social and practical problems facing the state while ensuring society in free circulation of goods and services. Since modern scientific community is not ready to discuss this topic yet, we offer advanced crypto-community our proposals for discussion and criticism.

Read more about the idea of natural money: https://jusnaturale.com/en/ideas/natural-money/

The idea is interesting, but it's highly depends on ability and desire of a state to cooperate.

Well if people's money decayed, what incentive would people have to save their money or rather how would they save their money? I think there's a reason that every money system does not have an incorporated deflation plan.

For me 'Natural Money' was what people used to trade much time ago on the first ages of the world when people used items to trade for another items they needed. For an example: I produce wood, you produce stone, so you give me stone and I give you wood as we need both materials, but we can't produce all of them at same time... Any other kind of natural money seems too artificial for me...  :D

Natural money was being used many years ago until now, for me it is the physical money where we can used it anywhere we go in the public places, even in online it can be use by simply have a credit card or Paypal something like that.

This is the simple thing that I've said so many times on this forum. Governments, like anything else, are going to want to retain the power that they have -- they're not going to give up the power and the influence which they hold over their citizens and their economies just because people want them to.

This would work, and I've always said that Bitcoin and other ideals could work -- but they work at the whim of govenrments and how they feel as if they should regulate them.

Off course, I have always known that government won't relinquish the hold they have. The hold has always been used to manipulate citizens and make the government relevance.

It is not literally an exchange of natural goods like in the old times like barter exchange, this idea of system uses crypto currency technology "Blockchain" computes the goods by the formula S = T*N for the S is the value of goods and T is for the Time spent of making goods and N is for the quality factor of time spent following the principle of Silvio Gesell the Natural Money is a great idea with the implementation of it in the blockchain based technology.

That's your natural money, you live in stone ages. stop lol. start, "natural money" is not referring to something like wood for stone, it's not about natural gas, full stop lol. this is yet another shit coin trying to take Bitcoin's place. natural money for me is Bitcoin, truly decentralized. you don't get another crypto currency like it.

You could call "gold" natural money already. As far as I know, gold is part of nature. Gold nuggets pop under the wet dirt in certain places, it is definitely part of the cycle of life in a way.

The big problem with anything natural is the fact that it becomes cumbersome to store, divide and transport. You will never be able to outcompete bitcoin with something that is not digital, which is why im sure we are not going to see anything like that being a threat model for bitcoin.

I do not believe that such a project may be of interest to people. Any cooperation with public authorities leads to the fact that this currency is no different from Fiat. Governments always want to spend more money and therefore steal money from citizens through the mechanism of inflation. You want the same with cryptocurrency? Lol. My opinion is the people themselves politicians themselves. Until our interests are not the same, it makes no sense to cooperate.

in modern times now most people use modern way. because modern times have become the needs of society, can not be separated among the community. if to offer crypto-community sophisticated proposals for discussion and criticism. it's up to the community also want to be invited to cooperation or not, so what our friends say is true jean.

It is cery difficult for a country to sureender its hold on the conomy by adopting this as this will sirely impunge a lot of their holdings or their sway over corporations due to regulations on currencies. IF This is implemented I can see the point but the application is another thing to discuss

I'm kidding, they say Crypto-Currency is natural money, but they follow a theory that has nothing about "Natural", trying to control other people's heritages and this kind of stuff that it's common in socialist countries. Anyway, even Crypto-Currency isn't natural for me, it's a free world, but not a "natural" one, it's just a tactic to call something the opposite it is to bring more adepts and make people accept it.

states have proven time and time again how they manage to screw up money

i'm skeptical that any system where the state has control wouldn't be subverted like always

most economists or financiers would include "a store of value" in the definition of "money", but no fiat today is a store of value as its value is eroded by inflation

until that is addressed, money isn't money anymore

also, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon is a nutter

I strongly agree with your opinion, I think in the absence of cooperation with the country will be the same. such as wasting time

you unfortunately did not quite understand the idea. The name of the natural has developed historically and this is not the main thing (call it whatever you like). in this concept, it is important to divide the two mutually exclusive functions of money, modern technologies only help build a self-regulating tax system for the free movement of goods and services

Some cryptocurrencies also have the mechanisms of inflation. Bitcoin has limitations in the number and this is to some extent reduces the risk of inflation. But it kompensiruet volatility of bitcoin. It turns out that the real money does not exist. Explicit or hidden inflation is inherent in all money. Fiat is not to blame for the fact that they are rule incompetent politicians.

What are the two mutual functions of the money?

Why to build a self-regulating tax system if it's working very well without anyone? Sorry, but for me it's just an excuse to start controlling other's money in name of social justice. People must have the free will to choose saving or spending the money and if there is someone able to pay interest over savings, there isn't any problem. As I understood, this theory would force people to spend money instead of saving it to make the market in constantly circulation, no?

the idea of natural money as cryptocurrency exactly fits to counter aforementioned negative aspects – it takes control of money from state and authorities and greatly reduces possibility of manipulations by making fiscal system not a process, which includes human factor, but an independent mechanism.

What kind of self-regulating system of taxation are you talking about? Lol. Politicians couldn't keep their hands out of the budget. What they do and politics? Maybe you believe that they go into politics to make the country better? They will never give control over taxes and nothing to even speak on this subject.

Generally speaking, governments are not good stewards of natural and human-made resources and that includes the national currency or any other type of currency created by the government. Since time immemorial, this has had been a big problem plaguing many states. People in power has the tendency to procure waste and could not deliver more value than what can be spent with. No wonder that economic tumult can be happening because of the built-up pressure (akin to a volcano about to erupt). This is the reason in fact why we have cryptocurrency as represented by Bitcoin and its underlying blockchain technology...to return the power to the people and regain back the trust always wasted by those in power and the whole of the bureaucracy.

You are absolutely right, but they can't declare their true intentions in public. Instead they need to declare idealistic doctrines, and then, in democratic societies - to implement something that will show their devotion to the declared course. Quiet so they surrender some power - by little steps.

On of my most beloved Frederick Douglass quotes: "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will"

So we need that demand, and we need it to be loud and clear to have chance to make authorities make things we want them to do.

For that reason I am sure most of them will do anything in their power to maintain the current system the world uses after all, it is the most convenient system for them to be corrupt. If there would be a self regulating system of taxation, they wouldn't be able to do what they usually do. It will be hard to convince them to switch with this self regulating system because like you said they aren't in it to make the country better but to give themselves power and money.

Politicians do not disdain any methods to achieve their goals. I'm afraid that in order to prohibit the use of bitcoins, they can organize large-scale provocation. Will be implemented any large-scale terrorist attack and it will use bitcoin. Then, under the guise that it is used by terrorists he will be banned.

The idea you have is difinitely true to life and it is also possibly happen. In my own I think it would be depend on the states on how it is going to be handle. If the country offers to use the cryptocurrency and entering the new world that would be great to know and surely it is easy and functioning well the community of the states. In our economy it is focusing the needs which lead to know the supply and demand through natural money either cryptocurrency.

Why are you making up new means of taxation while the nature of crypto itself puts the whole concept of taxes under question? And free-money sounds like a profanation.

in my opinion, 'Nature Money' is what people used to trade a lot of time ago in the first century in the world when people used goods to trade for other items they needed

It's as if we are not being taxed enough when we are using bitcoins and there is no need for all the TAX Money  when the countries are regulating the crypto currencies so that people will pay taxes just like everyone else.

 Overall it sounds like it would work and maybe in theory it would but with the state allow it is the question

True! Any policy imposed by the government, if not properly executed or the people themselves don't cooperate, then it will fall sooner or later. Take socialism for example, in essence it is a great government system, but the people distrinuting the wealth and people themselves became greedy and lazy so there's that.

It's a war. I wonder who will win. The pressure of the governments is causing irksome consequences for the bitcoin. but if the government makes the necessary arrangements, there will be no problem. i love russia and japanese. they are not afraid of technology. they are involved in the game. eger this war is over, people can not earn much from kryptod. but the market is more stable.

i guess because unit bitcoin units are based on usd, i think if bitcoin as usd and other coins as other currencies, then this will be the same. we can see in forex trading, currency fluctuate as well

Sounds interesting, wish you a success, because the world is in desperate need of something new (about economic state system)

Natural money is the easiest money to use but it is much smaller value than bitcoin and other currencies. Bitcoin can give you a multiple type of ordinary when it is than converted into natural money .

Natural or Fiat money, into our lives, when the credits appeared. It was loans and borrowings that turned society and the state into slavery and the lack of the ability provide their money with resources. People have already got used to the fact that money is not provided, so some people will move to new crypto money, and the older generation will use Fiat money. But decentralization is necessary. The state will take taxes in another.

And by all means it really signify how terrifying the government can do based on your analogy. It is not shocking at all, because if we think about it clearly, they will really lose their power when it comes to this field, maybe they are superior enough in making laws, but in crypto, they are just mere citizens, and because of their pride and greed they will much likely use every means to provoke and prevent worst case scenarios from happening.

Natural money i think is the money we are using since the beginning to trade and buy things they need and as time passes by it changes the kind of money from things to gold and then comes the paper money and coins.

Of course we all need money to buy things as well as buy the conditions to cover the cost of living, I also like natural money

Not only that as all government will have corrupt officials that will either take money from the people or will make a worthless thing to have a value. That is why many government are afraid of the blockchain technology are they cannot manipulate it so easily, but just remember that even if its hard to manipulate these people will adapt and still take money from the people.

I prefer to classify natural money to the gains an individual gets from being at the work centre all days long. That is what I can define natural money. We all get different perceptions.

Bitcoin was launched by a group of cypher punks who thought about the overwhelming State role on the ongoing economies, so we can say with a libertarian point of view. So I think it's unnecessary the effort to bring the State again control of our lives with a taxation system of the decentralized economy we all are trying to bring it here.

i think all fiat currencies also have fluctuations. but it's not as extreme as bitcoin. and i think btc will be same if it is recognized by all countries. for now BTC is more widely used as an investment tool instead of a currency

The negative side of natural money is that the value of it is constant, never be change not like bitcoin the price of bitcoin increases and decreases . It depends on the demand of bitcoins.

getting natural money to me is like working or making much input to get funds you have really worked for. There are dubious ways most people use to get  money so lets all stay alert.

There are no solution for any problems in this world because eveything is manipulated, everyone wants to be in the top. Living in this world means survival and no one could ever help you with that but yourself.

A short and a fuckin precise answer regarding into this idea which there would be no equality ever on this world would exist. Manipulation and power would be mainly used.
In terms of money, we have seen crypto do make innovation but it wont really comes to a point that it can replace fiat or any other proposed money out there.
Fiat would remain no matter what.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing this with us.

I mean the theory and the idea on paper is very good and could be the next new standard in the economic world but the question still remains, will this idea fly with everyone else. I mean this will further relinquish the control of a countru to money more than anything else in exchange for what? Free flowing trade? Ideally it is good, practicality is questionable .