Bitcoin Forum

Short-term:

- Things are crashing hard this Summer. The media bubble has faded. We might see ourselves at $80 again. Even $30.

Long-term:

- Gold is going to recover. Hidden economic trouble is brewing. 'nuff said.

- The NSA has full control of Bitcoin through holes in SHA-256 and DSA that the mass of the public has yet to find. The whole blockchain might find itself worthless within the decade.

It was fun but Bitcoin is going to need a judgement day before cryptocurrency can become mainstream.

Here's my prediction: Bitcoin is going to be blown apart. The price will go to zero by 2020.

To those looking at this from the future: I told you so.

---

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-why

That's a bold prediction. Do you really need it to rationalize your decision?

OP should change his name to "Elmer FUD" and continue making these predictions. It would be even more amusing!

that's quite a revelation, thanks for that

thanks for warning us, OP.

Historically the gold/silver ratio has been averaging 1/16 (this goes back to ancient history).
Currently gold is over this ration, so I would expect silver to do better than gold in the near term.
As to what both will do against bitcoin, that would be pure speculation but all are alternatives to inflating currencies.
No one knows when inflation is coming, but when it does, it typically comes quicker than folks expect.

You predictions (except the quoted one) are fair enough, your tone is laughable at best.

But this is just hilarious:
Seriously,
why do people that that have nearly zero knowledge on information theory think they sound badass when they talk about it?

You forgot a few points:

- The Space Jews control the president of the United States with brain wave rayguns, installed in geostationary satellites launched and maintained by South-American drug cartels.

- Fluids! Always protect and preserve your precious bodily fluids!

That's right, never use sanitary installations connected to the grid.


Tell us how do you make that distinction and how is information theory relevant for making such a statement?

Through a hole in your browser I have full control to your computer. I feel sorry that the single Bitcoin you bought the same day as you registered here at June 4 has lost 10% since. But I feel I need to tell you that you won't get a 1/10 ounce Maple Leaf for a Bitcoin.

Nice guess but you're far off. Feel free to decimate this computer. It's not mine.

I'm looking at this from the future, but I don't understand what you wrote because it seems to have been corrupted in the last forum move.

Too late. The bitches sucked me dry already.

what's the cost to sell a gold coin? I know the dealer spread is disgusting

Where I am I can do that at any bank. That's pretty much the only reason to own gold for me. Spreads are around 10%, 6 for full ounces I think.

The price is going down

http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/


Huge sell walls and no buying power... at mt gox orders

i have an online broker who trades gold with a spread of 1.5 usd ;)

buying physical gold ounces at the corner store is for begginers

OP: registered june 3
Says he sold everything on june 8

Wow, that was fast!

Buying precious metal where you can't physically touch it means you do not really own it. It's like the US government has never taken gold away from the population during unstable economic conditions...

On a second thought, with all this PRISM, Barak-doors and NSA-inside our puters, I guess that they could do quite some damage to bitcoin if they really want to.
So maybe for the moment they are not so interested or they found some utility for them in it (everybody likes underground transactions).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s9cLnQ35Vfw/UbN-hcPE9aI/AAAAAAABMbY/yQL0KcIsc3M/s600/130607-prism.jpg

+1

and who do u work for? the fed?

Therefore the problem is to keep your stash where uncle Sam cannot touch it.

in the investing enviroment of gold, NYSE new york stock exchange with brokers where big amounts of commodities are traded is safe and have small spread.

i dont want to believe you are thinking the investors are moving tons of gold and silver from one place to another during all the day, are you?

If you want to spend some usd in gold and keep them for at least a year its ok buy phyisical gold ounces, but if you are a day trader you have to move in another level

Right up until it isn't.

Ah, well in this case... agreed. Daytrading is not realistic with physical assets of course. Then again, considering the low price of metals, I would of figured you to be in for a longer term. I have physical silver, price averaging as the market goes down as the price is very difficult to predict with the 'growing strength' of the US dollar (  ::) )

Is't SHA-2 a closed source function mate by National Security Agency?

That term does not apply to it.

It's not provably secure, which means it wasn't derived from a mathematical proof. What OP is basically claiming is that it would be provably insecure, which would be the equivalent of being constructed in such a way that there is one mathematically proven error in it. Not that there would be any evidence for it, it's a claim out of the blue which makes about as much sense as claiming that the NSA monitors your masturbation habits.

Yeah, you forgot about the space jews.

Thanks for all the false information! The NSA has control of SHA256... media bubble has faded... etc. We have a name for that... FUD ;-)

ITT some kid buys lots of gold certs with his bitcoins and thinks he's ready for when the SHTF. Good luck with that bro! Hopefully you kept at least one bitcoin  ::)

oh shit! Thanks for telling me, I didn't know that. Thank you thank you thank you. Will sell all my coins right away.

seriously, dude. The bolder the claim the better the evidence needs to be. You have none.

If Bitcoins and the internet were to collapse then Gold would be right there right it. Gold is shiny and all, but just as much perceived value as Bitcoin/money.

Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be

At least you are not buying dollars with your bitcoins.

My prediction is that by August the dollar will be half the value it is today. Though it may take some time for that value drop to be noticed as it spreads throughout the economy. But it will be felt.

How is that going to happen with a long term trend reversal forming on all major stock indices?  When stocks go down, the dollar rises.

What could possibly trigger hyperinflation at this point in time?

The value of a break on SHA-256/ECDSA far outweighs even the full market cap value of bitcoin

+1

The Federal Reserve is currently buying 73% of Treasury Notes, which are used to print money for the Federal Reserve who turns around and buys 74% of Treasury Notes which are used to print money for the Federal Reserve who turns around and buys 75% of Treasury Notes...etc...

It is estimated that at the current rate, the Federal Reserve will be buying 100% of Treasury Notes by mid July.

What this means is that no other country is willing to buy our debt. The only way our debt can be funded at that point is from printing money. Printing enough money to fund our government means the value of our currency will go down by that much on a daily basis.

It will not be pretty.

Even if the Federal Reserve stops buying our Treasury Notes...we only have 27% of the customers we used to have. In order to entice the other 73% into buying we have to sell cheap. Or jack up the interest paid on our debt.

Can you provide a source that demonstrates your claim that interest in bonds from entities other than the Fed is falling?  I'm not saying it's incorrect, I've just not seen any evidence.

Onya OP.

Here is your proof, I just sent a Bitcoin to 1BitcoinDiesWithSHA256As0f09062013 and will spend it in less than 24 hours. That would mean that I successfully broken up SHA256.

I will give you all 24 hours to sell all bitcoins and avoid a major loss.

- Lophie

Timer removed. End time: 2013-06-10+3:00:00UTC

Nice try, but even if that was a valid address, it is not SHA256 that secures coins.  It only is used to confirm blocks, not to sign transactions.

Dude -_-!, Go along with a nice joke when you find one, I wanted Elmer FUD to have a good "I told you so" moment before we all pee on him with laughter and shrugs.

The data is here:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/tressect.txt
From the US Treasury.

The monthly variation has a fairly high beta compared to 12 month rolling, of course.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tic0611126042_big11.gif
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fedholdings0611121_big111111.gif

The subtle humor of the address was a delight. and the count-down is precious.
Thank you for that.  
Another tax on people bad at math is Darwin's 21's century gift to the cognizant delivered by santa l0phie.

 ;), I am cryptolarious.

If you believe this then I have a previously unknown impossible to mass-produce quantum computer to sell you.

Straight question on OP: Are you Satoshi? (Revelation 22:13)

no maths to back up sha 256 claim

*ignore*

congrats for making me check. good troll tolls well.

gonna make a dedicated thread for this now.

posted, It might shake a few noobs but I hope it wont escalate to getting my account banned :(

Awesome, we have someone on the inside! So, which division of the NSA do you work for? It must be a leadership position to know what you know! Tell us how you know.

... "History" channel?

OP that isn't a bad move, but....

the fundamentals have not changed.

GOLD SUPPLY > BITCOIN SUPPLY



Bitcoin will inevitably hit parity and surpass the price of gold as there is less bitcoins for fiat to chase than there is gold.

I cashed out some BitCoin for Gold too yesterday with a friend, I just hope Coinabul comes through...

Here is an article about it...I believe the source requires a paid subscription.
http://lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi261.html

Selling now is like people who sold at 2$ after the 2011 bubble that peaked at 32$

When bitcoin went to 2$ they were like "omg bitcoin going to 0, sell sell sell"

Instead, it was the perfect time to buy, and then after two years, from 2 to 266.  :)

Lol!

No.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-why


Face it. Bitcoin is already compromised. The NSA has endless resources to crack the cryptography of all communications on the planet. Do you really think they would just let people encrypt their communications freely by putting absolutely secure hash functions in the wild?

I will say it one last time: Bitcoin is a ticking time bomb. It is going to blow up any day now. Feel free to hold it for awhile but don't be the last guy holding it.

You do know that the most important source of power is the image right? Not necessarily to actually have power.

Gold has industrial uses. Bitcoin doesn't.

I highly doubt that most investors who buy gold are planning to install high conductive wiring anytime soon.  Most of them are in it because of speculative value for a return..

And it looks nice when worn.....

60% of all gold mined is used in Jewellry.

http://www.gold.org/about_gold/story_of_gold/demand_and_supply/

I find much plausible that they can easily target the users' machines and steal the wallets of a great number of them if they wish without any special tech or know-how.

Please stop. It was entertaining the first time.

If you're a troll, you're a rather good one.
Besides trolling, I don't understand what your goal could be, such statements can only lead to the the single conclusion that their author is stupid. Is that what you're trying to make clear? Honest question, no sarcasm nor offense intended.

This is
1.physically impossible, and therefore,
2.stupid

An hash function is not a cypher.

So did you Start to get why I facepalmed my face to oblivion because of this OP?

you will regret it , you cashed out too early

I do not think ECDSA/SHA-256/RIPEMD-160 can be compromised. BUT I can imagine a random number generator (private key generator) used in Bitcoin-qt client could be (not so random ... :-) I did not study source, only speculation where to look for security hole) compromised -> every wallet then become deterministic wallet (easy to compute) ... :-) I believe, there are no errors in bitcoin-qt software, but what about "alt coins"

Trolling in bitcoin forums is pretty funny, there is no current mechanism for short selling bitcoins, so unless the poster just wants to trash BTC for the hell of it another possibility could be trying to drive it lower to buy in more for themselves.  Either way it's pretty funny to observe.

Bitcoin has universal use as currency.

Your data is a year old and only considers government entities, excluding private investors both in and out of the US.  I remain unconvinced, but I've got PMs, bitcoin, land, and marketable skills so I should be fine if I'm wrong.

Sorry, but to me spreading false information about a topic that is already confusing for the average person is not a "nice joke".

https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinDiesWithSHA256As0f09062013

invalid address as already stated & no bitcoin sent obviously, so troll challenge:

BTC price atm $105/BTC & gold price $1,385/Oz atm, so say you sold $1M worth of BTC @ $105 (ignoring spread etc) = 9,525 BTC you get approx 722 Oz of gold, lets see in 1 year, 2 year, 4 year, 10 year, etc how much 9,525 BTC & 722 Oz of gold is worth in USD, atm it's $1M each.  

Copied for the historical purpose of creating a thread called "I told you so"

That was the data requested, foreign purchases.  It includes all foreign..
It is from the treasury report.  The latest data is there, in the link provided, but maybe you are in our future.
They also have domestic data, but you can look it up yourself, now that you know that it is there.  Make the graph that suits you best.

NET PURCHASES OF U.S. TREASURY BONDS & NOTES BY MAJOR FOREIGN SECTOR:
              FOREIGN OFFICIAL INSTITUTIONS, OTHER FOREIGNERS, AND
                     INTERNATIONAL & REGIONAL ORGANIZATIONS
                                        
                            (IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS)


      (NEGATIVE FIGURES INDICATE NET SALES BY FOREIGNERS TO U.S. RESIDENTS
              OR A NET OUTFLOW OF CAPITAL FROM THE UNITED STATES)

                    TOTAL                                    INTERNATIONAL
                     NET          FOREIGN                         AND
                   FOREIGN        OFFICIAL       OTHER         REGIONAL
     MONTH        PURCHASES     INSTITUTIONS   FOREIGNERS    ORGANIZATIONS
     -------   ---------------  ------------  ------------  ---------------

     2013-03             5,289       -16,816        25,750           -3,645
     2013-02             2,614        -6,697         8,315              996
     2013-01            32,302        53,128       -23,075            2,249
     2012-12            29,893         8,366        19,974            1,553
     2012-11            28,085        -1,697        30,401             -619
     2012-10            12,043         7,841         3,834              368
     2012-09           -17,492           919       -22,127            3,716

Bitcoins look nice in my wallet too ;D

I suspect gold is used in jewelry primarily because it is expensive, not even because of its chemical properties. Chemical properties are important too, especially for earrings, but for many other items, I see no particular reason why women would prefer gold & diamonds to plastic & glass. I'm not even sure where this idea that a woman with holes in her ears, and pieces of metal in them, somehow looks 'nicer', is coming from.

Yet, it is surprising how many agree with this idea, no?

The unique chemical properties of gold are pretty special.
You can't really burn it up.  It doesn't oxidize.  It pretty much is forever.
Diamonds are similar.
The notion of something lasting forever has a romantic quality to it.
To some of us, really cool math, elliptic curve cryptography, and an elegant philosophical proof are also highly rewarding and weirdly romantic as well.
You can do the math and see which of those are more likely to appeal to your lady friends.

are you talking about the white paper or am I missing something?

Basically been trying to explain this already but most people respond with laughter or stick their fingers in their ears and say "la la la..."

To the OP.

That wasn't very smart.

That's why gold is crashing hard  ;)

This chart is interesting, if it is accurate, it means that the sale of government bonds in 2007 triggered the financial crisis, and after that the sentiment changed, they have to buy much more bonds to keep the system alive, and I guess they dare not to sell any government bonds in the foreseeable future

It is known that ALL the newly printed fiat that is going back to the FED is BEING used to buy more bonds. So it is not about not selling it is about not selling to foreign entities

Agreed, They will likely keep them to term.

There's other options than the ears that have some practical purpose. But rarely gold is used there as far as I can tell.

At time of the OP, the price of bitcoin was at $110.

and gold was $1380.

You're surely in the green, but doing only the first part would've been better.

Sounds smarter than "wife, house and yacht". But I guess you hold at least some of that, too ;)

i like the selling your btc part to lock profits.  but your gold prediction part remains to be seen. i hate predictions, especially when nobody really knows whats going on except for the insiders.

btc going to be at zero by 2020?  that's a big maybe. but until then, what will replace btc?  so far nadda. btc is here to stay for now.

oh one sign bitcoin is dying is the volume in trading. so far its good.

Ahh. We have a paper gold trader here.