Bitcoin Forum

If I bought steamboats batch 6 which are expected late august?  Would 9 g/hs be even worth it at the difficulty in august?

Thanks!

Probably not worth it. It's a huge risk. It's very likely you will lose money.

There is a decent chance you will make money, but definitely not very much.

gotcha,  basically the period of time i have before the difficulty is too crazy is late august (expected time frame) to September or November.  It will probably ROI but just barely :/

its just a bummer as my bitcoining/ scrypt alt coin days may be over when the difficulty for bitcoin jumps.  Probably won't be that profitable for my gpu units either

The biggest risk isn't really in not making money back on an ASIC product (unless you paid a retarded price for it, like a blockerupter USB), it is scams. There are so few companies with anything to show for all the money they've raked in, and then you have secondary markets being built around the promises of other companies to deliver something...

It's just bad juju. This is the time where you've missed the boat on being a KA-CHING first batch Avalon winner, or whatever, and the risk is still just about as high now as it was then of getting a big box of air, or a product so late that it will be a nail biter. I'd say that the sensible option is to wait until production and shipping are at a sensible level (you can order and receive a product, how crazy!) and you can actually consider ROI at some reasonable level.

But my personal calculations say that most ASIC products today will deliver bang for their buck given trends, and assuming they don't turn into smoke.

I don't think so, they are far too expensive to have a reasonable ROI and also Bitcoin difficulty is getting too high too fast.

These ASICs are too expensive and no resell value. If you want to contribute to the safety of the network to prevent it from 51% attack, then buy it.

While I haven't done the math, steamboat speculates in a recent post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2434731#msg2434731 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg2434731#msg2434731)): 

"As an aside: Each person should do their own research and calculations to decide if purchasing miners is right for them. That being said, the numbers I have run are based on a very aggressive difficulty ramp up, and show the units will be unprofitable after 9-10 months. That being said, in order to maintain the exponential increase in difficulty, $26 million dollars worth of hardware would need to be introduced in month 3, $54 million in month 5, $110 million in month 7, and so on. This assumes .5btc per gh/s, and there are companies slated to produce miners at a .2. "

9 Ghs - not worth the risk
90 Ghs - worth it

Buying anything to do with mining is worth it in the long run if you believe firmly that bitcoin will continue to have success. Buying GPUs now would probably be the only thing not "worth it".

I disagree, if you calculate that your would be mining at less than the break even point, you would be better off spending your money on buying BTC instead of mining them, that way it helps keep the price up for all.

Not if bitcoin continues to appreciate in value, which, if you don't believe it will, you probably shouldn't be in Bitcoin to begin with. 

If Bitcoin is $200 next year, GPUs will still be profitable. 

If Bitcoin is $500 in 5 years, GPUs will still be profitable. 

Seeing a pattern?  As long as Bitcoin's exchange rate keeps going up in value, my GPU farm will stay on.  Even if it doesn't, I will keep it on with the expectation that it will be profitable long term.  Of course, if it fails and goes to $0, well, then I've lost my electricity bill because the miners are already paid for.

And technically after cards are paid for a lot will depend on personal situations.  For example for someone with a apartment including electricity :) gpu profit will always be there after cards paid for.... but profit will no doubt go down down down.

It all depends on the price of BTC and electricity. If you are mining for next year's BTC, then mine on.

even if you are lucky and your pre-orders isn't a scam, you will make a tiny profit anyway, therefore don't bother

Only if u wanna be in the gamee

Buy ONE USB Block Erupter to help keep the network distributed and secure, use the rest of your funds to buy bitcoin.

this is actually a pretty good idea for the OP and all of us in the big picture.  :)

9GH/s is still a lot better than getting an equivalent amount of eruptors.

Even at one billion difficulty, you stand to make about $10/month after electricity costs.

true

You are missing the Point.

He should get one little Block Erupter _to support the network_  (NOT to get rich or mine for profit FFS!)
and get Bitcoins for the bulk of his Fiat _to support the whole Bitcoin Economy_.

If you know better ways which are just as easy to get and use, why not telling me, the OP and all of us instead of babbling this smartphone mining nonsense, how i fall for a marketing slogan or what not...

This is not helping anyone and a shitty style.  :-\

It's only distributed if you mine using p2pool. Anyway, those USB sticks are slow and massively overpriced.

+1
Those that mine must turn over enough to pay for the watts to create them, thus there is a need for someone to buy those coins.  Gold miners cant eat gold, and if no one is buying no one is mining.

I think people should stop buying asics for now until they can actually have something ready to deliver with better prices
otherwise you are just funding the mining operation for those guys

+1, these interest free loans where the customer shoulders most of the risk and the company makes a metric fuck ton of profit is bullshit and getting old real fast.  You want capitol to start your business or project get INVESTORS or a business LOAN, quit calling the, pre-order customers FFS.  I mean for the love of fucking christ they are not even offering deposits with completed payment when shipping is happening they demand full payment pre-order.

But on the flip side people keep throwing money at these guys what are they supposed to do?  From a business POV miners are a wet dream come true, low to no risk using FREE OPM.

What I personally find so interesting is miners are funding (for free) the product that will make them less ROI every month.  It's a classic arms race for the same daily coins.  The ones making the real bank here are the manufactures.

I will say that off all the manufactures currently shipping (or that have shipped) the one that did this right was ASICMINER, I commend them for calling the money they took an investment.  While I don't agree with the auctions or the last retail pricing, they have every right in this free market to charge what customers are willing to pay.  They took investments and sold shares +1, waited to take orders and payment for a retail product until it was on the shelf ready to ship +10.

Note: I have no ASIC miners currently and none on order with anyone (I GPU mine LTC currently).  I will not be investing in ASIC hardware until the price makes a lot more sense and until a vendor has a product that I can get in a week or two max.  I assume this will happen eventually, how long till that happens is the million dollar question (or maybe never and I don't know), I am guessing early to mid 2014 but LOL that's just a stupid guess!

the problem are all those delivery delays and fraudulent schedules, because of mining difficulty increasing over time, i.e. you should in theory be entitled to actually sue ASIC manufacturers who cannot keep their schedules, because it makes a huge difference if you are getting your unit 3-6 months late or not - just check historical mining difficulty for the scheduled delivery month, and then check the estimated difficulty for the "likely" day of delivery. That alone, should allow people to team up and sue vendors, especially in litigious places like the US

no, we are at the point where chips itself, cost already too much

If you have a opportunity buy it
you can allways resell it on ebay to some newbee

This is the kind of people we want avoid, which side are you at? Do you work in a bank?

+1

It is worth buying if you can get them at less than 2BTC per GHs and the product can be shipped within the next 45 days.   

I agree.

Just a FYI, as those things seem to be selling so well. I hope people buying them are only buying them to support the network and not to make money. Because if they are being bought to make money, I have this great deal on some plain old air I'd like to sell you.

Funny, it seems to me that a Jalapeno, for instance, will be well profitable even if/when difficulty is 10x higher than it is today, supposing BTC/USD stays stable...

care to elaborate why ?

What do you mean?

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

This estimates that at 4.5 GH, 19339258.2724 difficulty and $108.55 USD/BTC, the jalapeno will generate 3.56 BTC/month or $386 in month 1. Even at 10x difficulty, that's $38.6 per month.


another, more extensive calculator, http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

This one reports 0.13 BTC/day.

i haven't a clue what the final power numbers are for the jalapeno, but if it draws 100w and electricity is $.15/kwh, then what, power will cost a whole 36 cents per day? Not too bad...  so yes, even if difficulty goes up by 10x, i'll be well past paid back for the unit and will bring in $35+/month...

A jalapeno produces a minimum of 5 G/H (via two chips rather than 4.5 G/H from one as initially planned) and uses 30w, 5w per G/H is the current BFL chip power draw. They may improve slightly in the future.


M

I have 22 asicminer eruptors blades with this 19 mils difficulty it will make 180 btc per month, why is not worth it?
Last month I made more then 200btc. There is also other cryptos like terracoins, I mined terra and then sold it for btc and profit higher then mining btc. And last not least I have blades and I can sale it. But who will sale something what making profit. ASICminers will be profitable for long time. Next generation miners here in August, BitFury tested prototype chip and it worked fine. Many people will drop mining ideas those who stay will upgrade their hardware, when needed and will continue making money.

cuz 22 blades  cost 900 btc?
5 months ROI?
a no no?

how does it matter, how many months ROI. It can 5 or 7 or 9 months or 12 months. income in 100K usd in 12 month not bad at all. Plus you dont have to do much and having incredible fun mining.

As investment it is great opportunity. where you can invest 100K usd and start getting returns from ground zero in one week. Tell me where you can invest 100K usd  and get it back in one year. NOWHERE ... not in this economy!! if not count ASICminer-PT shares. About same time I purchased shares also and it is double already.

Without understanding ROI, you arent doing any investment.  You are just giving free money to ASIC makers.

But the society need people like you. Without your losses, how else can the rest of us make money.

sure, I maybe do not understanding it, if you understand please show me, where is my losses.

Right now I can sale asicminer blades and shares and I will be left with 1000 btc plus. That is my loses and it is just 2 months of making loses.  No kidding, I will continue making loses.