Bitcoin Forum

What if the NSA created Bitcoin, and the mining network was created to help them process the billions of phone calls they record every day?  :o  ;D

(This was a hypothetical)

You're just now finding this out?

Where do you think all that hashing power goes? 'Confirmations'? Right...

/tinfoilhat

Excellent point. who knows what that program is really doing. Sure it might be hashing bitcoin, but what else is it doing? And what else is it sending from your personal computer? This is why I'm switching to multibit. I'm not having some large invasive program constantly running in the background on my pc.

It's not sending anything from your personal computer. Just check the packets or source code.

However, if I were a large state agency what better way to yield the most powerful hashing network on the planet than create a digital currency out of work produced. I mean, think about how much hashing power the network has and will have in the near future. A single 6990 can brute force passwords in minutes... now multiply that by...

"Solve this block and receive a 25BTC reward!"

Wait, what did I just solve?

uh yeah sure. I'll do all that as soon as I get my degree in computer science.

And the point is..... I will not trust that program unless and until another source that I trust such as the EFF says that they have verified the code. Something the btc community should get done anyway because it would give confidence to a lot of us.

genious...

There is a price for everything.  depends on what you are willing to give in return for something.... just saying

OMG!! Bitcoin is Skynet!! ;D

Here is the source code : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin

Read it and comprehend it, then stop posting this conspiracy bullshit,

Finally, someone without this crazy paranoia.  :)

Amen. It's freakin open source dude. Where is anything hidden from anyone?

It's against all prinicples. How OPEN source can be closed?

Nakamoto, SAtoshi

The clues were always there, people don't wanna see it...

Oh come on, more conspiracy theories.  :(

Wow you really don't have a sense of humor.

Isn't this a fun, parody thread? Or is someone being serious here?

I think many people are.

Slightly off subject, but would it be possible to create a cryptocurrency where the hashing could serve a benefit?  Like getting ???coin for running a program similar to folding@home (http://folding.stanford.edu/ (http://folding.stanford.edu/)) or world community grid (http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/ (http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/)) or even SETI@home (http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/ (http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/)).

I'm greedy and interested BTC because I believe there could be profit for me.  But I think of all the money spent, electricity used and hash power of the network and it would be cool to see it going towards improving something.

What if? Who cares?!
Your doing something that your not supposed to do by phone?
Planning bombattacks? Muslim extremist organisation? Childabuse? Bankrobbery? I gladly help the nsa to intercept those phonecalls and fuck those people over and over again with hashing power. Prolly were no army material irl but geeks.. Let this be our contribution :)

But for now? What if?
Gimme coins, gimme teh money!

(gdb) x/150 $esp
0xb0efb0ef   0xb0efb0ef   0xb0efb0ef   0xb0efb0ef

Bitcoin codes was opensourced and was reviewed thousands times by thousands of programmers across the world. no chance that this would happen.

I can second that. It seems that some people can't accept the easiest explanation.

This has been asked many times, and the answer is NO. What the bitcoin mining is doing is creating a verifiable and secure record of all transactions, it is not just wasted processing power.

And +1 to the posters above that the source is open and anybody can read it. You would think somebody would have noticed in the four years this has been running if there was secret data being transfered to a government agency or if the hashing was cracking passwords. Also remember that when this started people were getting 50 btc per block, which was worth about 0.025 USD, when they finally started being traded for stuff (I calculated that based on the 40000 btc for 2 pizza so ~20 USD).

ROFL that's a good one.

Oh come on, the tinfoilhat land is fun sometimes.  ;)

I guess but when that repeats several hundreds of times, it simply gets old.

I suppose it would. I've been away for a few years so I had to have my bit of fun.

I've been away for a while too. When I left bitcoin was worth 10 bucks. But spending a couple of hours here makes it kind of irritating to see all the theories.

Posts in the newbies section tend to be irritating  at times.

Did the exact same thing. Thought it was doomed and walked away. Guess I was wrong on that one.

But ya, very interesting to see how this place has changed... and the incredible amount of scammers.

I don't remember this being as much a problem before. Yikes.

I actually walked away because I just suddenly lost interest. After a while it came back, so did I.

LOL, stupidity.

Check the code, it's open source

And if you cannot read code at least read books, at least you would stop asking dumb questions.

There have always been scammers. I think we are better now at labeling the scammers as such, so they seem more numerous, but it is really just that they are more obvious now.

Maybe but i really don't think so ::)

Have you read it? All of it? And do you know what all of that code means and exactly what those functions do? Did you see the below code?

<function=keyword scan, compress, upload to PRISM server>Run background, hidden)

If you don't trust the client: write your own

If you don't trust the miner: write your own

Maybe it's NASA (NAkamoto SAtoshi) using the hashing power of both Bitcoin and SETI@Home to hide the existance of aliens together with the Men in Black. ;D

Nope, not gonna let that pass. It's a cop-out. The point that's been made is that it's open-source so anybody could read and verify the code. So my asking if anyone has read it, that is absolutely a fair and reasonable question.

What if the sky is falling.

that is a fair question and you know it. No tinfoil hat needed. Are you not aware of recent history?

Yes. Dozens of people on these forums, on a regular basis.

People give factions of the government way too much credit. 

But in the blockchain, there are hidden secret messages

You've made my day even awesomer.

From the illuminati, isn't it?

its the secret illuminati communication network

And the hashing power is used to power the alien brainwashing machines.

WOAH! Guys, this was just meant as a parody thread, I wasn't seriously speculating as such... This was just a dumb idea I had when stoned and reading about prism. I wasn't trying to troll, and I didn't think it would wind up three pages back! I mean... This is the noob thread.

This is hilarious though... you guys are awesome.

this is bitcointalk.org what did you expect? the mods are retarded, no one can take a joke, no one understands sarcasm and you can't trust a single person, and every thing you say is taken way to seriously. most of the people on this board need to grow a fuckin pair.

THIS ENTIRE THREAD -->
POE'S LAW FTW

I think it's a "monkeys and typewriters" kind of deal.  You know:  the old notion that if you put enough monkeys to work banging away at keyboards, eventually at random they will write the works of Shakespere.

Likewise, if you put enough chips to work running a hash algorithm, eventually you will get a hash code that reads "To be or not to be, that is the question."  Actually, it will only be the letters "A" though "F" found in that quote, because of hexidecimal limitations, but they'll be in order.

DISCLOSURE:  If I continue to post on these forii - and the word isn't in yet on that - all posts should have the <scarcasm> </scarcasm> tag around it, but for convenience only serious posts will be so marked.  Thank you.

Actually, I've been lurking on this site for a while, and I don't think that's exactly true. 

You're right that you can't trust most people; those who can be trusted, e.g. John of escrow fame on the hardware-buy threads, are elevated to the level of saints.  As for most people, BTC is a gold rush, which attracts con men of both long and short persuasions, and greedy idiots for them to prey on.  So, yeah. 

A bundle of brightness you've found there, Milly! (LOL)

+rep!!! phantastisch


JUST CHECK SOURCE CODE.

Amazing!  ;D well said

your trust is placed in the pool administrator if you aren't running your own.

While the idea of some gov/agency involvement in BitCoin is not entirely far-fetched, the code/algorithm itself is fairly simple and doing what it claims. The likelihood of backdoors or non-understood effects is small.

A greater possibility is that the entire bitcoin concept/operation has been created and supported for some generally unknown further purpose.

Actually that is way more far-fetched than believing Hotmail and Gmail were built with the intention of spying on our communications, as those are closed platforms, in open technology there's always someone watching and verifying every line of the code...

And thinking that some shady organization will have a plan like "Hey, lets build a great technology with the power to substitute the entire economic system and unleash it into the wild and lose complete control over it and maybe it will gain enough popularity and maybe some day, some how we will be capable of harnessing its power to do something", that's tin foil hat mentality big time.

There are way more popular and widely used open source software and I don't see the nutjobs making outrageous claims about them, like linux, apache, android, open office, and so on, well we see then making claims, but not as much as with bitcoin technology.

You guys keep saying this but my point is that while being open makes verifying the code possible. Who has actually done this? And I'm not talking about your average user who wouldn't know what the code actually does. I mean what qualified person or organization has actually verified the code? JC, if you guys think that being able to verify the code is what makes this safe. Then I wanna know who has actually done this? Why is that too hard of a question?

It cracks me up how vitally important many of you say that it is that code can be verified but none of you seem to believe that it's important that it actually be verified. Wow, just wow. There's no tinfoil hat needed to see the failure and the absolute stupidity in this thinking.

The difference between the open-source projects you mention and Bitcoin, is that they have known developers and founders, while "Satoshi Nakamoto" is not a known individual.  To invent an algorithmic design of this caliber out of the blue, document it in a published  paper, develop it in software, engineer and test into a working system scalable across millions of machines, release and sustain the seed operation over a period of years, all the while maintaining total anonymity, and ultimately perfectly disappearing from the scene without a trace...  speaks to a very wide skillset, dedication, and resources -- arguably beyond any 1 person's capacity.

By the way, I wonder if you realize, your quoted example of a crazy plan: "Hey let's build... unleash to the wild... harnessing it's power" is a not too inaccurate description of the internet itself (originally a Darpa project).

Bitcoin mining is not "a cover".  It does what it says it does, which is pretty clear, and very useful. No reason not to move forward with this great technology.  (although energy inefficient). For those asking "who has verified it?",  many people.  There is an extended development team and many other academics, researchers, engineers and developers who understand it to varying degrees (including many on this forum).  It's not some arcane black box.

However, there are certainly interesting questions about the origin, why, who, is there an overall "schedule/program" of some kind, is it a testbed for something future, what does Mark II look like, etc.  And as for many cryptographic technologies, there could be advanced exploits/holes that are beyond current state-of-art.   (of course, if they break Bitcoin, they probably break a considerable number of other things too).

thank you for a reasonable answer @YukonCoinelius. I was waiting for another ignorant jerk to again insinuate that my reasonable question made me crazy and then you answered it. that was a refreshing change around here. And there I was all ready to reply to someone, saying "Oh yeah, you don't think that having a reputable person or organization to actually verify the code is important? And you think that I'm nuts for insisting on it? Wow, I guess you think that all the certifying organizations and individuals, such as those hundreds of organizations (and tens of thousands of individuals) that certify things like firefox plugins, and other software, AND Microsoft type software and compatability etc. I guess you think that doing that is nuts, huh? Well if I am a nut, I certainly have a lot of company. A lot of well respected company. The FACT is that I am not only "NOT" a nut, but I am very clear headed AND anyone that thinks that actually verifying code is a stupid idea - well, if that's you, then YOU are an idiot"

And hey btw YukonCoinelius, can you give me some names and links to these numerous people and orgs that you say have verified the bitcoin client code? Please no names or links to the producers of the code. Thanks!

Awesome!

Yes it is open source and I'm sure many have poured through the code. But it would be cool if the computing power was actually used for something useful (like gene bending) Maybe it is. I don't know.

If so "many have" done this then why can't anybody tell me who?

I'm beginning to think that everyone is so sure that since it's open code that surely someone must have verified it? well... that's an assumption.

You're so sure this code has been verified? then back it up. Who? Tell me Who has done this?

I can see where you are coming from, but with open technologies there's no need for authority in the creator or inventor, the technology proves to be useful or not, and I find the mystery around the Satoshi Nakamoto character fascinating because of the reasons you mentioned.

What I meant with the "tin foil hat mentality" is the need for an incredible foresight in the plan, it's easy to look back and see the potential right away, but 5 years ago...

And there are lots of technologies that came from war efforts or military backgrounds that are used every day in the civilian world, Internet is just another one, you have to agree that it would be very hard for someone  50 years ago have the foresight for something like PRISM, has in PRISM beeing the objective of the Internet, and there was competition for the Internet like the french Minitel, and I'm sure there were others.

Yes, breaking Bitcoin would break many other things, Bitcoin would be the least of our concerns, hehe.

A massive password cracker is interesting, but it simply isn't.

Here you go:

Dan Kaminsky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Kaminsky

Article: http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/05/lets-cut-through-the-bitcoin-hype/


Ben Laurie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Laurie

His critique: http://www.links.org/files/decentralised-currencies.pdf

His proposal: http://www.links.org/files/distributed-currency.pdf


Here's another paper from some reputable people: http://crypto.stanford.edu/~xb/fc12/bitcoin.pdf


And more: http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf


More: http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf


And you are right in being skeptical, never change about that, always doubt, and I mean it...

Those appear to be articles about bitcoin itself. And I have read numerous articles but I have yet to read where anyone has said that they actually inspected the code for backdoors or any other malicious code. Although as in one of your first links, the expert author does state that he tried to break the code. Obviously he must have reviewed it it he was trying to find flaws in it. Thanks for that one.

I'm a firm believer of every conspiracy theory, ever.

Want to know how to know when the person that you're debating is full of shit? It's when they start making up shit that you didn't say and then use that (i.e what they just made up) to insult and discredit you.

I never said a damn thing about any conspiracy. I merely asked the questions: has anybody actually examined the code? And if so, who? About as simple and straightforward as any questions anyone could have; And yet it's met with so much hostility and fear.  My, my, how low someone's self-esteem must be to behave in such a manner.

Yes. Many people have examined the code. Many.

Why don't you stop asking about it and go examine it yourself? Even if you can't read code you should be able to see a gaping security hole like phoning home to the NSA. It would stick out like a sore thumb and bitcoin would not be where it is today.

It wouldn't have made it past the first week.

Why do you worry that Bitcoin might be used by the NSA, when the NSA has access to your windows computer anyway?
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html (http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html)

They already could have loaded a hashcat like tool to your PC and using it.  ;) Bitcoin mining is something mainly done by nerds and nothing that the common guy does. Because of that the hashing power would be much lower than if the would be hasing only with the cpu on every windows computer  ;)

No way, NSA has even more powerful machines that we can imagine.

Well then you should have no trouble answering my question.

Oh I see so for windows users then there is no advantage in using "open source" programs. Thanks for clearing that up.

Believe me that a lot of non nerd guys started to open big btc mining farms as an investment.

No, your quite wrong. Sending specific amount from certain address can be encoded message.

I already did. Go do your own research and quit relying on others to do it for you.

It is jezus, must be jezus.

Your close, but it was not NSA, and the reason is different

crypto is just another way to get everyone used to a digital currency. I mean we're pretty much there. cc's, debit cards, wire transfer, soon paper money will be gone.  everything is digital. Then the great crash, followed by the reboot.
I mean wasn't the governments fault. Some crazy hackers destroyed the world currency. Don't worry people the government will protect you.

The only thing you can trust is government money. These are backed by trust in government, which is pretty high by average Joe

I'm sorry if my question hurt you feelings, but let me correct you on a couple things and then maybe you can quit the thinly veiled personal attacks. 1. I did not ask anyone to examine the code for me; I asked if the code had been examined for backdoors or malicious activity by anyone; and if it had, I asked who that was and for links: IOW, something called PROOF. 2. In the time I have had so far to examine the links you gave me, not one of them has said anyone had examined the code for that. 3. I pointed out your logical failure-contradiction in insisting that code must be open-source so that it was open to examination but then insisting that examining it was not important. 4. I never said that I didn't read code. 5. I have examined numerous open-source programs, because brother, (despite what you wish to assume) I do read code and probably have since you were in diapers. But I have my own life and was hoping to find someone cooperative and helpful in here who would kindly answer a reasonable question and instead I found an illogical troll who for some reason is highly sensitive about having this program questioned.

No it was created by computer nerd

You haven't hurt my feelings at all. You just sound like a moron.

Here, let me do some of the work for you:

* Raw code from GitHub (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin)
* Oh wow! Look at all these people reporting issues in the code! (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues)
* And Coinbase's Bug Bounty (applies to Bitcoin as well as Coinbase) (https://coinbase.com/whitehat)
* Satoshi Client Operation: Overview (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41718.0)
* I Tried Hacking Bitcoin And I Failed by Dan Kaminsky (http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-kaminsky-highlights-flaws-bitcoin-2013-4)

And there's much more but you've already wasted enough of my energy.  ;)

That still didn't answer my question. In fact, it avoids it. Obviously, my question scared you and hurt your feelings. Awe, I'm sorry. Do you need a hug?

Aww, apology accepted.

*hug*

Sure it does.

(And I'm assuming that you don't use any proprietary closed source software like Windows, because, you know, people can't look the code for malware...)

And why people say "it's open source it's safe" and you keep asking for authority that verified the code, and the aforementioned answer is a good one, specially with bitcoin, because there are lots of projects based on bitcoin, like litecoin, namecoin, ppcoin, terracoin, and many others, this is pretty usual with popular free open source software.

You do realize that for someone to alter bitcoin they have to look the code, and keep looking, if they don't wanna go a completely different way...

And there are lots of altcoins out there, so, lots of people looking...

Well golly gee, with all the ppl using it, of course the odds would be phenomenal that someone hasn't examined the code. But I've seen stranger things happen. Anyhow, it was just a question.

Yeah, people say you can look at the source code yourself (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin) and know that it doesn't do any such thing.

But have you looked at the source code? It's full of secret government-looking code like this:


By golly, who can understand gobeldygook like that? Until someone writes the code out in plain 'merican for us, we should just assume that it's part of the one-world government plan to obamacare the lizard people on the 9/11 faked moonlanding.

#feedingthetroll

See there's a lot of std's right there, this bitcoin thing is just a  plot to give us aids!!11

lool
Its open source!
it even has been modified for bitcoin-related proyects like litlebitoin, chinacoin, zerocoin, etc!
I assume you buy a coffe and then run some of it in a HPLC cobinated with a mass spectrometer to be sure its coffe!  ::) ::)

Made me laugh reading this, I was thinking the same a while ago.
The Bitcoin network could Burt force any encrypted key in matter of seconds.
You only have to find a way to inject password hashes camouflaged as valid BC shares, and how knows, maybe US government has the capability to do that.

Shhhh...don't tell people that. It attracts cowardly disinformation trolls who will come in here and call people names.... They do it here rather than face-to-face because they are cowards. And they are often shills working for the g because they need something to make them feel tough, rather than accepting themselves as the spoiled rotten pos crybaby-sissies that they are.

The bitcoin hashing power has outpaced the computing power of the world's best supercomputers after all...

Heh, I see what you did there. Anyway, I've never been more interested in looking at the source code, so here I go.

Scary story bro!

Heinlein's Razor

Also, the government we have is bad enough as it is. It doesn't need conspiracy theories

I just asked a fuckin' question. That's it. Now you want to put a tin-foil hat on me? JFC, kiss my ass!