Bitcoin Forum

Every surfer knows the secret to surfing is choosing the right wave and then expert timing to ride that wave for all its worth.

There's a huge swell brewing.  A swell perfectly tailored for Bitcoin to ride into the world spotlight.  Billions could be exposed to Bitcoin in one day that might take 10 years to be exposed otherwise.

...that is, if we catch the wave with expert timing.

What am I talking about....?

...The international attention currently on the Snowden whistle blower case.  A case custom made for Bitcoin enthusiasts...

Turns out Snowden has been holed up in Hong Kong, burning through all his credit cards to get this message to the world.

He's pretty much sacrificed everything for the good of us all.

Now lets to something for him and introduce the world to Bitcoin in the process...

How...?

We all know NSA has the tools to cut off any electronic funds heading Snowden's way regardless of where they come from...  that is any electronic funds aside from Bitcoin.

Now's our chance:

Let's setup a Bitcoin fund for Snowden.  The nature of Bitcoin could provide complete transparency.  Those donating can check the blockchain and see exactly where their funds are going.

...If Snowden plays along, he can publish exactly how he's spending the Bitcoins.  Eventually the word gets out that Snowden is living off Bitcoins.  

Of course the media will try to paint it that only criminals do that.  But anyone above simple-mind status will see right through that.

It will plant the seeds in countless minds around the world that Bitcoin is a way out.  A way out of the corrupt system.  Allowing them to live free in an unfree world.

Snowden has already proved his integrity here.  He has sacrificed the rest of his life for the sake of us all.  Let's do something for him, and in so doing do something for the world, getting the message out about Bitcoin.

If we are ever going to escape the current police state, we need to support those who courageously stand up against it. 

Imagine the message overwhelming moral (and financial) support sends to other potential whistle-blowers on the edge right now...

Perhaps a vanity address with his name?
How could we get the private key, which we can't know, to him without it being intercepted or used by a middleman?

How's a vanity address created?

And anyone know of anyone who might possibly be able to get the private keys in his hands?

What if a trusted member in the Bitcoin community sets up the vanity address.  We start the campaign to fill it.  Do a few press releases.  When the amount is significant enough I believe the problem of getting the private keys in Snowdens hands will solve itself.

How about we start with getting him on board?

I assume theres at least one person on this board whos from hong kong, if so they might be able to score a meeting with him and discuss this.

+1

definetly

i hate all of these strangers saying give me coins for X reason and they will someday get to their destination

it is much better to get in contact with him and get him to make a personalised youtube video showing his bitcoin address so we can send funds direct to him

It would seem the best way to set something up is have the bitcoin community contact/team up with the two leading Snowden support sites:

http://www.supportsnowden.org/

http://hongwrong.com/edward-snowden-rally

I would totally donate BTC to help out Mr. Snowden. 

You might want to also consider signing the We the People petition to pardon him as well.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

It needs ~25,000 signatures

Careful about NSA hunters posing as bitcoin purveyors.

I can make a vanity address with vanitygen, but 7 chars takes too long (years calculation time). 6 Chars can be done in a hour calculation time.
So something like "1Snowde" or "1Snowdn".

This is a great idea. I will definitly donate to this guy. I'm not an American so I rarely use this term : but this man is a HERO !

Lets try to get him on this forum asap.

It's right that he should be rewarded for his actions and rewarding him in BTC seems perfect.

The trusted party who creates the vanity address could agree to return any donations back to the senders address should the fund not make it to Mr Snowden in x amount of time.

Bitcoin is already on the world stage 10x over since ~4years ago.
Due to spooks involved at the highest levels of NSA/CIA it's impossible to guarantee he would receive funds unless you put it directly into his hand, which means you could catch some stray polonium poisoning :P

Anybody caught fundraising or sending funds would then be funding a defector/in a huge pile of shit, like being jailed for assisting treason or something. Better find some trusted guy in Europe or HK to pull this off nobody in USA. Whoever pulls this off in said Euro or other foreign country must also worry about possible extraordinary rendition, and can never, ever visit the US ever again. This is different than fundraising for wikileaks this is sending money directly to a defector. Be careful (:

Encryption is our friend.

Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist, successfully communicated with him via some unspecified encrypted chat software.

What is to stop someone sending him an encrypted private key?

By all means feel free to do this just warning you I don't think the NSA and CIA are going to stand around and do nothing, especially if any US citizen organizes this. Better contact the Guardian journalist from a tormail account in a van with no windows over wifi while you drive around in circles:P

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. If this snowden guy posted a bitcoin address i would definately donate. not just to him either, anyone who makes great sacrifices to stand up for their principals i would donate to. how on earth do we get in contact with him inorder to tell him that we would like to help?

we just need to get him to release a video with him reading his address out loud.

He can create his own paper wallet using Bitaddress offline. He's a bright guy and can surely figure it out once he has the notion to use bitcoin. Far safer than trusting someone he doesn't know with a private key.

The QR code would be a use similar to the one where someone used a QR code in a video on YouTube and apparently received 4 BTC or so for the contribution.

But how to get in touch with Snowden to see if he is interested?

surely he would be interested, we are over here begging him to allow us to throw money at him

i think we would just need to broadcast the message. maybe youtube? is there anyone in the bitcoin community who has a popular youtube channel that regularly gets a lot of hits?

Get in touch with Glenn Greenwald, he's very active on twitter
@ggreenwald
probably wouldn't be hard to find an email address for him, he's well published.

Should be able to connect with an email address, or pass along a message.

Can BitMessage help out here?

Funny how noone talks about how he is supposed to cash them out and get the actual money in his hands.

spendbitcoins.com and ordering things online?

Localbitcoins hong kong? he is basically a celebrity right now, it shouldn't be that hard for him to find someone.

(Emphasis mine.)

Citation needed.

Here is a source saying he does not want your money: Edward Snowden’s Hong Kong Interview: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know (http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/06/edward-snowden-interview-whistleblower-hong-kong/).

Quoting from the same:

Which adds to his cred.

But the reality is eventually he will run out of money and/or all funds for him will get cut off or frozen.  Whether he wants to accept it or not, he'll need financial support at that point.

That sounds like an excellent way for authorities to nab him.

"I want to buy BTC. Please arrive at coffee shop on 10th street at 6 PM.  We'll I'll meet you there."

Or maybe not.  He was making $200k/year.  Whose to say he hasn't stashed enough to live off of for the rest of his life in a suitcase somewhere?

My opinion: Respect what he says when he says he doesn't want our money.

What the heck is everyone thinking here?!?!

I would find it very very hard to believe that a super tech guru, and information mastermind to not know about Bitcoin.

The $200k he made every year, he converted it all to bitcoin probably during the 2011 "bubble" and he is grinning ear-to-ear right now!

He probably came out and blew the whistle on everything BECAUSE of bitcoin... he felt "safe" knowing that he will be able to keep himself sustained while having to run around the world hiding from those you really can't hide from.

== although I thought this was a good idea too! :)  == 

It just seems so improbable that he didn't/doesn't know about BTC and that he doesn't have a stash of 10k - 100k BTC in his brainwallet! :)

You don't seem to understand the situation he is in. He is hiding, do you understand what that means?

If he is literally hiding, like the kind of hiding that you do when you play hide and seek, than you are right i didn't understand. I assumed he was just in hongkong to stay out side of the jurisdiction of the united states. I didnt know that he was actually literally hiding under a trashcan or behind some bushes somewhere in hong kong  :P.

Do we know Mr. Greenwald's position on Bitcoin?

good idea

If you want to do something like this I suggest you take a different approach.

Try to pass the message along (probably via the guardian journalist would be a good start) for Snowden to state a Bitcoin address (probably with a video with it, to avoid scams) for donations to go to help.

It would be harder the way in the OP, as you'd need to get in touch with him anyway to pass along the private key, lots of encryption and such, but just asking him to make/state an address can easily be done publicly, and you can't be held accountable IF he does listen and publicly states a donation address.

Mind you ... does Bitcoin need that particular kind of attention at this time?

Bad and good sides I see .. murky is the future ..

Bitcoin should not be associated with being antagonistic towards authorities at its infancy stage.  Ultimately it would be great if it becomes the de-facto world currency.  That being said, Snowden is standing up for a good cause which Bitcoin can associate with.  It is a good idea to show support but we don’t need to ‘advertise’ Bitcoin by means of controversy.
However if we get an address to/from him, all we need is for Snowden to just use the word “Bitcoin” in some positive context e.g. “the Bitcoin community has been very supportive”.  Curious people will pick it up and Google it… The internet and word of mouth will take it from there.
 

I would leave well alone, we'd be doing more harm than good.

Bitcoin has a public ledger - so as soon as the vanity address is published folk will be watching to see how and where it is spent.

Bitcoin is only pseudonomous as long as you don't associate an address with an identity. As soon as you (which is what people are proposing) you are out in the open with a spotlight on you.

Hopefully Snowden had the sense to switch some of his money into bitcoins before he gave his interviews. Otherwise he's better off with fiat in small used bills.

he could mix his coins if he needed too he is a computer scientist after all right?

He is doing an interview now (4pm BST, 11am ET US, 8am PT US):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower

He's answering questions direct here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower

Only popular questions get addressed.

Post a question asking for his Bitcoin address.

There's nothing to lose and plenty to be gained by doing so.

Haha, the Q&A is already over.

...No bitcoin questions were answered.

Snowden seems like a smart guy, if he wanted Bitcoins he'd ask.    IMO This is a false start, don't donate money until it verifiably is going to go somewhere.

This forum is so friging bipolar. One half wants to go to Washington and work with the government on favorable regulation. The other half wants to send funding to someone that very government thinks is a traitor. I'm pretty sure those two concepts are in conflict.

I don't think those two things are even tangentially related.  People who advocate for engaging with regulators do so because they believe regulation is coming with or without our involvement, not because they love and respect the government and want regulation as an expression of that love.

You don't think giving the government something else to hate about Bitcoin is a negative? You believe working with them is a "necessary evil" and those bitcoiners working with them really hate the government but are selling out for survival. Correct or no?

Some people, especially those interested in starting exchanges or other large business enterprises recognize that it's insane to spend millions of dollars and years of their lives on a venture that could be deemed illegal, or have the "understanding" modified at any time, for any reason.  From their perspective the lack of real rules constitute a major hurdle to them conducting business, so the more they can do to help regulatory clarity come to the situation the more likely their business venture will be able to actually survive.   

I think "the government" wouldn't "hate" bitcoin because of any relationship with Snowden, think a little bigger than that.

I believe we have a difficult path ahead of us because when it comes to money, it's a zero sum game and any "win" for bitcoin is a "loss" for all other currencies, most dangerously the US Dollar.  This makes me feel that regardless of engaging with regulators, this reality makes an amicable outcome with competing currencies unlikely. That's all the reason a currency issuing government could ever need to want Bitcoin to fail

That's a pretty fatalistic viewpoint but I do understand your opinion. I think Bitcoin is a niche currency at best and for now acts more like a commodity. At no point in the foreseeable future and definitely not during our lifetime could Bitcoin replace fiat for a government as large as the USA. It's more of a nuisance at this point like a tick on an an elephant. Regulators need to figure out how to incorporate Bitcoin into the grand scheme or they need to kill the tick. Making it obvious that Bitcoin simplifies funding illegal activities is probably not preferable while they are deciding on new legislation. They can always learn later that the tick carries encephalitis.

Bitcoin and governments controlled by those central banks are like oil and water.  They will never mix.   It's wasted energy even trying.

The fiat paradigm has run its course.  It has nowhere to go but down. 

Cryptocurriencies are the future...if nothing more out of sheer necessity.  It's only a matter of time.

Let's put our energies into getting the word out about Bitcoin rather then try to mesh with a defunct and dying system.

The Snowden case is the perfect opportunity for that.

Remember you believed this.

Because everybody knows Amazon is a wacky business model that will never work.  Book publishers and brick/mortar retailers have been wildly dominant for decades, how could such a little startup ever become dominant?  It can't, so it won't.  Certainly not in our lifetimes.

Automobiles?  Come on now, Horses were what my parents used, my grandparents used, their grandparents before them - Automobiles are unreliable and break down all the time, so how can you even play at saying they might catch on and disrupt the market?

Hindsight is 20/20, when paradigms shift it happens faster than anyone can imagine because the world is built on tipping points.  Bitcoin is more useful to those using it with greater adoption and provides value for every person who involves themselves with it unless it is made illegal, and even then it's just a different value equation.  If the US dollar was going great and everyone was happy with it you might be right, but clearly that's not the situation so I think you're wrong.  Even beyond that, Bitcoin makes impossible things probabale and enables new models not even conceptually feasible with money as it is now.  In a world of shrinking opportunity new markets and business models are exploited to their fullest by those most likely to succeed.

People like to equate Exchange health to the health of bitcoin, but it's a straw man.  This time next year there will be fully decentralized exchanges that obsolete the problem, I know three in development by very serious people and I'm not everywhere.

My favorite part is we get to see how things turn out together.  

Snowden is a symptom, not the disease.

I agree that in a free market businesses can come in and be game changers. That's what every new startup strives to be. The problem is that currencies are not businesses. Do you know why the "Big Three" automakers haven't failed and faded into history yet? Because the government won't let them. The free market does not control the national currency brain dead corrupt government regulators do. They will legislate Bitcoin out of existence if they feel threatened. They will use excessive force as they have been doing with everything they touch for generations. The only thing that changes that recipe is overwhelming radical pressure and protest or gradual subversion. Overwhelming pressure (like the Occupy Movement) won't work in this situation because the issues are too complex for the "common clay" to understand. Gradual subversion of the systems in place is the only opportunity for change. That takes time and requires working within the system.

I'm not against Snowden. I appreciate people like Snowden that have the guts to speak out against government evil. I would put him in the same group as Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Harvey Milk and many others that gave up their lives to fight for civil liberties.

That would be a valid point if you haven't been paying attention to the highly protected music industry and filesharing tech for the last decade or so.      The difference is you think there isn't already an attempt to stamp out Bitcoin, while I think it's been going on for about 6 months now.  They're just trying not to invoke the streisand effect so it's better to feign ignorance and confusion rather than go straight at it.  

I'd recommend a book called The Spider and the Starfish: The Unstoppable Power of Leaderless Organizations (http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1591841836)

Bitcoin and/or cryptos will succeed in spite of government attack.  This isn't like anything that has come before.

Of course they are going to attack it.  Of course they are going to try to legislate against it.  That doesn't change anything.  When 2 people get together and exchange value for value who the hell is going to stop them?  Especially when crytpos can be owned and transferred in complete anonymity.

The credibility and confidence of the federal government is fast eroding.  They can make any law they want... sure as hell doesn't mean it will be respected.  Any laws they try to pass against Bitcoin will largely be ignored.

The central exchange problem will be non-existent once decentralized exchanges are on board.  After that, there is nothing they can do except try to shape public perception about Bitcoin as come kind of underworld thing.

...How far do ya think that will fly?

Nothing is more powerful then an idea who's time has come.  There is nothing that is going to stop cryptos.  

5 years from now, you're going to be stunned at just how fast they reached mass adoption.

I agree they are trying to find a way to kill the flea. Just like kickasstorrents, Bitcoin will just pop up in a new location somewhere and carry on business as usual. That's why someone should lobby and be passive. Lull them into complacency by making them not fear Bitcoin. Then gradually build to a point where the majority of people worldwide are using a currency free of government control.

There's another difference in our perspectives - You think people who control legacy currencies are confused and can be convinced the danger to existing systems it not real, where I think that's like telling a homeowner "don't mind the smoke coming from the basement" - Say what you will, the danger is obvious to the ones who are invested.

No, I don't think they're confused, I think they're stupid, lazy and arrogant. Only a collection of fools would do the things the Fed has done to the economy. Remember we are just fleas to them. Cheaper to let the flea scratch around and die a natural death than raise the ire of citizens and deal with the fallout. State control works by propaganda not power. There aren't enough police in any city to control crime so they make a big show of arrests and scare the common clay into submission. It's a way to control costs and get the job done. Play nice and take over.

We'll agree to disagree on this one, I think you don't build and maintain an ever more repressive monopoly on money over the course of a hundred years by being lazy and stupid.  I look at the Fed's action and say to myself "If this was the preferable option, imagine what the alternative was"

But as mentioned before, we get to find out together :)

Agreed, good chat.

Apparently Snowden has a much more leaks, and some top secret stuff held in some kind of protective escrow with the Guardian he claims he won't give to Beijing. Sounds like that's his bag of insurance papers so they don't walk up behind him with an umbrella dipped in Ricin and poke him in the back or spike his drink with Polonium.

I did like his answer though to being called a foreign spy: "If I was a spy for China, I would've directly flown into Beijing and be petting a Phoenix in my palace right now"

thats so 19th century. these days they use a dart of frozen poison fired from a handgun that causes heart attack :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSEnurBApdM

Snowden will have a encrypted security file like wikileaks.
If they murder him in the next days, shit will hopefully hit the fan heavily.
Fuck this endless apathy!

I just bought car magnet from cryptoanarchy.com:

http://cryptoanarchy.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=52

I will post a pic of it on my car when I get it :)

Bitcoin is already on the world stage. We are in the middle of a change from known, to well known, then fully accepted worldwide.

Look at the market cap of bitcoin...If we were on the world stage it would be 10x what it is now. No it's not on the world stage, not just yet.

What is Snowden going to do with Bitcoins in the short term? Spend them on riser cables? Gold bars delivered to his house? Cash them out into fiat through a bank?

Just keep in mind that while you are giving to any Snowden bitcoin address that it is highly unlikely that it will actually aid Snowden in the short term. It is far more likely to be a 'maybe nest egg' for him in the future if he is able to stay free.

Unless, that is, it is coordinated so that he never has the coins at all, but so that they are used as a fund to aid in his legal defense. Meaning, you would need to find for Snowden people on the ground around him who are a) Able to help. b) Willing to help. and c) Willing to accept payment from the Snowden fund in BTC. In this scenario, Snowden would never receive the Bitcoins, nor do I think it would be in any way advantageous for him to access any bitcoins whatsoever while he is currently under the scrutiny of the most powerful intelligence agencies in the history of human existence.

This means that you would be trusting the controllers of the fund with the donated Bitcoins and not Snowden.

Also, anyone who requests that Snowden make any public issue of Bitcoins is being incredibly naive and selfish, IMHO.

Snowden could use Bitcoins right now, stuck in the transit area of the airport.  All he needs is an internet connection and access to 3rd party sites like bitspend to take care of his immediate hotel/food/flight needs.