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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: Wilikon on June 28, 2013, 12:36:15 AM



Title: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Wilikon on June 28, 2013, 12:36:15 AM
http://rt.com/usa/california-man-13-prison-banks-237/

Jeff Olson, the 40-year-old man who is being prosecuted for scrawling anti-megabank messages on sidewalks in water-soluble chalk last year now faces a 13-year jail sentence. A judge has barred his attorney from mentioning freedom of speech during trial.

According to the San Diego Reader, which reported on Tuesday that a judge had opted to prevent Olson’s attorney from "mentioning the First Amendment, free speech, free expression, public forum, expressive conduct, or political speech during the trial,” Olson must now stand trial for on 13 counts of vandalism.

In addition to possibly spending years in jail, Olson will also be held liable for fines of up to $13,000 over the anti-big-bank slogans that were left using washable children's chalk on a sidewalk outside of three San Diego, California branches of Bank of America, the massive conglomerate that received $45 billion in interest-free loans from the US government in 2008-2009 in a bid to keep it solvent after bad bets went south.

The Reader reports that Olson’s hearing had gone as poorly as his attorney might have expected, with Judge Howard Shore, who is presiding over the case, granting Deputy City Attorney Paige Hazard's motion to prohibit attorney Tom Tosdal from mentioning the United States' fundamental First Amendment rights.

"The State's Vandalism Statute does not mention First Amendment rights," ruled Judge Shore on Tuesday.

Upon exiting the courtroom Olson seemed to be in disbelief.

"Oh my gosh," he said. "I can't believe this is happening."

Tosdal, who exited the courtroom shortly after his client, seemed equally bewildered.

"I've never heard that before, that a court can prohibit an argument of First Amendment rights," said Tosdal.

Olson, who worked as a former staffer for a US Senator from Washington state, was said to involve himself in political activism in tandem with the growth of the Occupy Wall Street movement.

On October 3, 2011, Olson first appeared outside of a Bank of America branch in San Diego, along with a homemade sign. Eight days later Olson and his partner, Stephen Daniels, during preparations for National Bank Transfer Day, the two were confronted by Darell Freeman, the Vice President of Bank of America’s Global Corporate Security.

A former police officer, Freeman accused Olson and Daniels of “running a business outside of the bank,” evidently in reference to the National Bank Transfer Day activities, which was a consumer activism initiative that sought to promote Americans to switch from commercial banks, like Bank of America, to not-for-profit credit unions.

At the time, Bank of America’s debit card fees were among one of the triggers that led Occupy Wall Street members to promote the transfer day.

"It was just an empty threat," says Olson of Freeman’s accusations. "He was trying to scare me away. To be honest, it did at first. I even called my bank and they said he couldn't do anything like that."

Olson continued to protest outside of Bank of America. In February 2012, he came across a box of chalk at a local pharmacy and decided to begin leaving his mark with written statements.

"I thought it was a perfect way to get my message out there. Much better than handing out leaflets or holding a sign," says Olson.

Over the course of the next six months Olson visited the Bank of America branch a few days per week, leaving behind scribbled slogans such as "Stop big banks" and "Stop Bank Blight.com."

According to Olson, who spoke with local broadcaster KGTV, one Bank of America branch claimed it had cost $6,000 to clean up the chalk writing.

Public records obtained by the Reader show that Freeman continued to pressure members of San Diego’s Gang Unit on behalf of Bank of America until the matter was forwarded to the City Attorney’s office.

On April 15, Deputy City Attorney Paige Hazard contacted Freeman with a response on his persistent queries.

"I wanted to let you know that we will be filing 13 counts of vandalism as a result of the incidents you reported," said Hazard.

Arguments for Olson’s case are set to be heard Wednesday morning, following jury selection.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: r3wt on June 28, 2013, 12:38:34 AM
fuck the goverment. our forefathers would hang these pricks from the highest of trees.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: btceic on June 28, 2013, 12:49:16 AM
this is disgusting, i am ashamed to be an american right now.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Singlebyte on June 28, 2013, 07:40:40 AM
 ???

I am speechless.  Government protecting big banks.  Ridiculous!


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Kluge on June 28, 2013, 08:14:06 AM
Defendant has super-shit lawyer. That Tom Tosdal must feel like supreme commander of fuckin' idiot.

Prosecutor should go for the throat and pile on criminal chrages for attempting to incite unlawful acts against the banks government. Only "philosophical abstraction" is protected speech when against the government.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Foxpup on June 28, 2013, 10:51:13 AM
"The State's Vandalism Statute does not mention First Amendment rights," ruled Judge Shore on Tuesday.
No shit. For those of you who don't get it, the reason the Vandalism Statute doesn't mention the right to free speech is because freedom of speech only applies to what you do with your own property, not other people's. You're free to put anti-bank messages on a sign in front of your house, on a T-shirt, on a billboard you paid to advertise on; but you're not free to put your message on other people's property without their permission. Tom Tosdal is either a complete retard or batshit insane if he doesn't understand that. ::)


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Lethn on June 28, 2013, 10:55:34 AM
I actually agree with it, but they shouldn't ban him from mentioning it, they should just make him look like a moron, people like this piss me off because they don't understand the meaning of consent and think freedom means you get to fuck over other people without repercussions, they should bear in mind that if they lived in a completely lawless society they could end up being shot at for doing that.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Kluge on June 28, 2013, 11:23:34 AM
Really, though, the bank made the dumbest claim of the story. "one Bank of America branch claimed it had cost $6,000 to clean up the [water-soluble!] chalk writing."

That quote's presence is vandalizing my monitor, and I can't remove it without hiring a team of contractors to scroll for me.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Frizz23 on June 28, 2013, 11:40:17 AM
The USA are turning more and more into a fascist country.

Edward Snowden, a guy that deserves the Peace Nobel Price, gets hounded.

Barack Obama, a sock puppet of the big puppeteer (big capitalist east coasts pigs), got the Peace Nobel price.

In which world are we living?

To all those people writing "I am ashamed to be an american right now": Move your bloody ass and do something about it!


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Ekaros on June 28, 2013, 04:51:56 PM
Really, though, the bank made the dumbest claim of the story. "one Bank of America branch claimed it had cost $6,000 to clean up the [water-soluble!] chalk writing."

That quote's presence is vandalizing my monitor, and I can't remove it without hiring a team of contractors to scroll for me.

So they had bankers doing some real work? I don't see any other way for that crazy rate for cleaning...


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: legitnick on June 28, 2013, 05:18:02 PM
http://rt.com/usa/california-man-13-prison-banks-237/

Jeff Olson, the 40-year-old man who is being prosecuted for scrawling anti-megabank messages on sidewalks in water-soluble chalk last year now faces a 13-year jail sentence. A judge has barred his attorney from mentioning freedom of speech during trial.

According to the San Diego Reader, which reported on Tuesday that a judge had opted to prevent Olson’s attorney from "mentioning the First Amendment, free speech, free expression, public forum, expressive conduct, or political speech during the trial,” Olson must now stand trial for on 13 counts of vandalism.

In addition to possibly spending years in jail, Olson will also be held liable for fines of up to $13,000 over the anti-big-bank slogans that were left using washable children's chalk on a sidewalk outside of three San Diego, California branches of Bank of America, the massive conglomerate that received $45 billion in interest-free loans from the US government in 2008-2009 in a bid to keep it solvent after bad bets went south.

The Reader reports that Olson’s hearing had gone as poorly as his attorney might have expected, with Judge Howard Shore, who is presiding over the case, granting Deputy City Attorney Paige Hazard's motion to prohibit attorney Tom Tosdal from mentioning the United States' fundamental First Amendment rights.

"The State's Vandalism Statute does not mention First Amendment rights," ruled Judge Shore on Tuesday.

Upon exiting the courtroom Olson seemed to be in disbelief.

"Oh my gosh," he said. "I can't believe this is happening."

Tosdal, who exited the courtroom shortly after his client, seemed equally bewildered.

"I've never heard that before, that a court can prohibit an argument of First Amendment rights," said Tosdal.

Olson, who worked as a former staffer for a US Senator from Washington state, was said to involve himself in political activism in tandem with the growth of the Occupy Wall Street movement.

On October 3, 2011, Olson first appeared outside of a Bank of America branch in San Diego, along with a homemade sign. Eight days later Olson and his partner, Stephen Daniels, during preparations for National Bank Transfer Day, the two were confronted by Darell Freeman, the Vice President of Bank of America’s Global Corporate Security.

A former police officer, Freeman accused Olson and Daniels of “running a business outside of the bank,” evidently in reference to the National Bank Transfer Day activities, which was a consumer activism initiative that sought to promote Americans to switch from commercial banks, like Bank of America, to not-for-profit credit unions.

At the time, Bank of America’s debit card fees were among one of the triggers that led Occupy Wall Street members to promote the transfer day.

"It was just an empty threat," says Olson of Freeman’s accusations. "He was trying to scare me away. To be honest, it did at first. I even called my bank and they said he couldn't do anything like that."

Olson continued to protest outside of Bank of America. In February 2012, he came across a box of chalk at a local pharmacy and decided to begin leaving his mark with written statements.

"I thought it was a perfect way to get my message out there. Much better than handing out leaflets or holding a sign," says Olson.

Over the course of the next six months Olson visited the Bank of America branch a few days per week, leaving behind scribbled slogans such as "Stop big banks" and "Stop Bank Blight.com."

According to Olson, who spoke with local broadcaster KGTV, one Bank of America branch claimed it had cost $6,000 to clean up the chalk writing.

Public records obtained by the Reader show that Freeman continued to pressure members of San Diego’s Gang Unit on behalf of Bank of America until the matter was forwarded to the City Attorney’s office.

On April 15, Deputy City Attorney Paige Hazard contacted Freeman with a response on his persistent queries.

"I wanted to let you know that we will be filing 13 counts of vandalism as a result of the incidents you reported," said Hazard.

Arguments for Olson’s case are set to be heard Wednesday morning, following jury selection.

WOW. Thats absolutely ridiculous. Government completly breaking the right of free speach. This should be taken to the supreme court.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: TECSHARE on June 28, 2013, 09:22:35 PM
I actually agree with it, but they shouldn't ban him from mentioning it, they should just make him look like a moron, people like this piss me off because they don't understand the meaning of consent and think freedom means you get to fuck over other people without repercussions, they should bear in mind that if they lived in a completely lawless society they could end up being shot at for doing that.

I think the real question here is does the punishment fit the crime? If his crime was damage to property (AKA vandalism) I think each count might cost about $50 to hire a guy with a power washer to fix it (or just a long rain). Does that sound like something that warrants 13 years in prison to you?

Now however if they are prosecuting him based on the content of his speech within the act of vandalism, unless the message itself breaks established limits on content of speech (no direct threats, etc), they are in fact judging the content of his speech and he should be protected under the first amendment. His words as far as I know were not inherently criminal. Give the man a fine and send him home. Why do we let murderers out in a year or two but send a guy writing on a wall with some chalk to prison for 13? If you can answer that you will understand USA much better.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Lethn on June 28, 2013, 10:03:42 PM
It's true that, it seems to be the context or politics behind the crime rather than the crime itself that matters more now.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Foxpup on June 29, 2013, 01:51:20 AM
I think the real question here is does the punishment fit the crime?
What punishment? He hasn't even been tried yet, let alone sentenced. 13 years is the maximum penalty for 13 counts of vandalism. If his lawyer is smart enough to argue that he didn't do any permanent damage (though that's a big if), he'll almost certainly be let off with a small fine, if that.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: BrightAnarchist on June 29, 2013, 02:10:27 AM
This makes me feel sick.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Severian on June 29, 2013, 02:15:58 AM
they should just make him look like a moron

Too late. He could never look as moronic as the bank and the prosecutors at this point.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: bitster on June 29, 2013, 03:10:22 AM
I dont care who disagrees if it can be simply hosed off its not vandalism!


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: enquirer on June 29, 2013, 05:43:27 AM
Life in US is getting more scary by the day. They should make a rule that for every new law - two old laws should be abjudicated.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: Littleshop on June 29, 2013, 01:39:23 PM
I dont care who disagrees if it can be simply hosed off its not vandalism!

A) it can be hosed off
b) it is political speech
c) no libel
d) gross overcharging by the prosecutor

For those reasons it should be ignored.  By the letter of the law it is vandalism .  I have a HUGE problem with the jury being given instructions on the first amendment that are improper.  This is one for jury nullification if there ever was one.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: B613 on June 29, 2013, 04:35:19 PM
No one in their right mind doubts that the damage was symbolical and primary reason for prosecution is suppression of criticism.

Do people of America need to proclaim another Declaration of Independence from another tyranny?


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: cryto4rig on July 01, 2013, 05:15:40 PM
fuck the goverment. our forefathers would hang these pricks from the highest of trees.
YES


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 01, 2013, 05:22:57 PM
No one in their right mind doubts that the damage was symbolical and primary reason for prosecution is suppression of criticism.

Do people of America need to proclaim another Declaration of Independence from another tyranny?

No because all governments tend towards despotism. Another Declaration would simply be resetting the clock 200 or so years before the same inevitable conclusion.

What the human race needs is a post-state society.  It is my hope that emerging technologies (material sciences, decentralized networks, distributed energy production, etc) will enable the emergence of post state societies.  If not then the 21st century will likely be a repeat of the 20th century, where more citizens were murdered by their own governments then criminals or foreign states.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 01, 2013, 05:27:07 PM
As much as this is an overzelous prosecution with a political element and thus absolutely disgusting the guy and his lawyer should be required to attend mandatory civics training so they can stop making stupid 1st amendment claims which don't apply.

The first amendment doesn't apply to another persons private property.  For example I can't barge into your house and scream on the top of my lungs about how your wife is a whore and then claim my first amendment rights are being violated when you either silence me, remove me, or contact agents of the state (i.e. Police) to accomplish the same.

This should never have even gotten before a judge.  Admit wrongdoing (and stupidity), plead down to a lesser charge (likely a misdemeanor) and pay a fine.  In the future follow the advice your mom hopefully gave you as a kid "if it doesn't belong to you ask permission first".


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: BitcoinBarrel on July 02, 2013, 03:06:47 PM
Sidewalks are public easements not owned by the Bank.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: MonadTran on July 02, 2013, 06:43:40 PM
Sidewalks are public easements not owned by the Bank.

Makes sense. They are owned by "the people" (meaning government). The bank spent $6000 to clean up the sidewalk that they didn't own? Cool, but, you know, they didn't have to. And, that's kind of vandalism, too. You don't just break into another person's property, and start cleaning things up. If you admit that the bank employee had the right to clean up the sidewalk, it would also make sense that the guy had the right to write things on it.


Title: Re: California man faces 13 years in jail for scribbling anti-bank messages in chalk
Post by: RandomQ on July 02, 2013, 10:49:25 PM
This guy was found not guilty on all counts...  at lease the system worked this time