Bitcoin Forum

So apparently if you're a "Troll", the BFL forums redirect you here. LOL
BFL is spitting on this community, but yet, I've seen more people defend their shady business here than on their own website. They're pretty blind.

Yeah,

They are a pretty terrible company, especially now that they aren't issuing refunds for any orders.

Yep.
Jody's newest "blog" was basically "We over estimated, blah blah blah, we are up to the task now of shipping everything out"
Bloody nonsense. Lies. Garbage. Excuses.
If they were up to the task, this would've been done back in October 2012. December 2012. January 2013. March 2013. May 2013. June 2013. It's now July 2013. That is "not up to the task".

Apparently calling out this bluff is "trolling". They're debating about closing out comments on the blog because, yes people do get out of control with cursing and hate words. But this is ridiculous.

If you're going to take a week and a half to not ship anything out, then at least keep quiet. No excuses.

Yeah,

I do see both sides of the equation, but unfortunately while they can be mad at the internet trolls for hating on them, that is what the internet is for. Them, as a company, attacking their customers, calling names, blowing up in forums, is not a form of professional business mannerisms. The fact they are also incredibly opaque in their operation and not transparent rubs a lot of people the wrong way. That is why other companies, who are the competition, are capitalizing on their rather insulting business practices both online and offline.

Especially when their number one form of communication is...
*drum roll*
A god damn web forum.
Companies don't do this crap. Announcements and progress updates are done via professional mass emails or professional company blogs. Not some open BBL forum with member blogs with some lady who loves to run her mouth. And when they get "rude" comments, they wonder why.

There are college student startup businesses that have better communication then them. Kickstarters are way more organized and informative. Occulus Rift is now has millions of dollars in backing and banking. They've yet to disappoint, and big named companies are looking at them now.

Yep.

Yeah, they are certainly a company that doesn't have any morals :)

If you payed through PayPal, they'll (most probably) issue a refund. Got mine last week (refund, that is, not a miner)

I paid via paypal and they still refused to refund my money. They're an outright scam.

Ask BFL one more time for a refund (to show you really tried), then complain to PayPal directly.

Yep PayPal will honor you. That's why I love them when you need em

What could be a better advertisement for the advantages of using PayPal over Bitcoin?!
Well done BFL for shitting on the entire Bitcoin payment system.

Picture or it didn't happen.

Your troll is obviously 1) Weak 2) Annoying. Stupid is tolerated here much more than there - that is all. Nothing more - nothing less.

It's past the 45 days, Paypal auto closed the dispute, I opened a dialogue via email with them but they haven't been responsive either.

http://s15.postimg.org/3kadw2gcr/image.jpg

Here ya go. Proof enough?

And yes, they are a scam. There are two forwards of me just showing two associates that I emailed them the request (just blacked them out, among my own name, etc.).

Paypal will only help if you ask for a refund within 45 days.

Looks like I managed to get out before the door slammed shut. My order was placed on the first week of May and refunded on the last week of June. Phew!

...That is the exact same scenario I am in, and they told me to go fly a kite...what gives? June 26 = last week of June. My order was 5/1.

Hmm... My order was placed on the 4th of May. Refund requested on the 23rd of June. Got the following reply on the 24th:


Got the money ($2500) on my bank account through direct PayPal refund the week after.

I was actually pleased how swiftly they handled it, so I was going to keep an eye on them from the sidelines and possibly place an order once they start shipping and clear their backlog, provided their miners would remain competitive with a reasonable chance of ROI at that time in the future.

Damn, you are one of the lucky ones then! Maybe they just decided to start screwing people with me? I asked nicely, and have never hopped on the forums to join in the hoo-haw before, but now I almost feel obligated to since they have me over a barrel and it's my only outlet. I wish they would at least treat professionalism with professionalism. I'm going to try opening another dialogue with them before I go that route, but I do want to at least warn people they are refusing refunds (and no it's not a joke or me just trolling) at the moment.

Yes, calling out a blatant lie and excuse from BFL is a "troll", a "weak" and "annoying" one at that. And "stupid" to top it off.
I think you need to learn your place.

I got banned for the same reason. Apparently they didn't appreciate my pointing out the giant thread here about their CEO being a convicted mail fraudster...Got my refund though, never will they get my business again.

Didn't know that, but that is certainly an interesting tidbit of information.

Butterfly Labs forums are heavily moderated by "voluntary" moderators that don't even work for BFL (Users: Lab_Rat and grnbrg). For all their censorship and denunciations they were "rewarded" by BFL: they received free ASIC miners well ahead of paying customers.

int03h is the BFL desperation sockpuppet. They only pull him out when things get really bad.
Like when the entire BFL customer base realizes that they are entitled to refunds from BFL whenever they want them.
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Now the big problem over at BFL's forum over the last couple of months is that no thread can be started about any BFL related subject technical or otherwise without a group of haters piling in and attempting to derail it with the same old shit over and over.

They posted their own threads, other users rolled their eyes and ignored them, so they started trying to stuff their opinions into peoples faces all over the forums.

This is very likely the cause of the banning, and would probably happen in any type of moderated forum. Probably sooner. BFL didn't seem to want to take the heavy hand earlier, but 3 wildly off topic posts with warning each time from mods, would probably get you thrown off half the forums on the internet.

I was complaining about the lack of moderation a month or two back, hell, half these people would have been thrown off somethingawful or general mayhem.

Try it in real life, make a sign about chemtrails or something and take that and your bullhorn to every city council meeting... OMG they're denying your free speech.

One trend I noticed is that BFL supporters generally want more moderation and censorship. They don't like "opinions stuffed in their faces".
Personally, I don't think I have anyone on my ignore list. The mods here ban when people spam or threaten. The mods move threads that are off topic, they lock threads that get crazy.

I read what other people say. Even if it is lunacy, it still gives insight into how the world works. Banning those you disagree with is an oft reached for tool of the closed mind. Barring opinions other than your own feeds cognitive dissonance.

There is a difference between banning for behavior and banning for opinion. Here they ban you for bad behavior but let you have an opinion.
BFL seems to require you to have their opinion in order to use their forums. Fair enough, those are their forums and they can do as they like with them.

Exactly.
There is a significant difference between a banable, offensive, off-kitler post and someone sharing either an opinion or their perspective. Sometimes, often more so than some think, its not even opinions - its actual facts.

I've been scouring the BFL forums for some time now. It really isn't that bad, and most comments/replies are tame. They're just banning anyone who isn't with them and directing them here.
There ARE comments that are really ridiculous. But, of course there are. Ban/remove those for sure.

now watch BFL start mass shipping this coming week since it is not that profitable to mine with our paid asics
probably Josh will announce we got new factory/assembly line/s / new shipping carriers and jallys are flying off the shelves.

Weird, because i keep reading about ppl who had chargebacks even after months

Yep. Here it comes

I go to BFL forums everyday just to read all the "hating" posts.  I don't see what you guys are talking about with them banning folks that are against them.  More people post about hating them than liking them.  Just to let you know I'm not a BFL lacky...it's just entertaining to read "troll" posts.   ;)

They're cracking down on it. Its more common in the Blog comments. Especially if you comment in the shoutbox too. I've talked to several recent bannees who barely say a word or more about Josh or Jody that got banned.

Their forums are very incestuous. They only tolerate like minded people.

It's like Josh, Jody, Lab_Rat and grnbrg all have sex with each other and their offspring is 90% of the forum users :)

That's a pretty good way of putting it, actually.

Jody disabled her blog comments "for the week".
HA

Yeah, I saw this, too. I also talked to a lawyer about the whole non refund issue and they gave me several routes to go down (one of them being small claims court, which I am looking into further). I would be interested to see how many people would be interested in a class action lawsuit, though, as they are clearly breaking some laws when it comes to the FTC's rules.

Not surprised.
I would be on board if not for the fact I'm RIGHT FREAKIN THERE on the order. Its so close. But they just won't move past the 23rd. Its like they're shipping 20 units a day out of a couple thousand.

not worth it...just contest with your cc company.  If you live in KS and don't have a day job, that's one thing, but otherwise, you're losing out on job time and travel expenses not to mention lawyer retainers and court fees.  You won't get back any "speculated lost earnings"  only your money that you invested into the device.  Just file it with your CC company for non-receipt of merchandise and refusing to furnish a concrete commitment date to perform the transaction (shipping the unit to you)

I like how I saw a picture on ow.ly for Inaba on "how many units are stuffed into this USPS truck here"  Its like 50 units in a usps truck they all boast "we'll bump units to 400 plus a day" but thats not going to happen

If it is not in their ToS, you can file small claims in local court jurisdiction. And it's not in their ToS that you would have to file in their local jurisdiction.

BFL banned me from the forum for posting a reply on how to get a refund and some information from the FTC website.  ;D