Bitcoin Forum

I was on Wikipedia checking something out for the n^th time that day (like most days) and I notice their plea for donations. I'm thinking: "Hmmm I'm kinda broke, I want to support them but I need to eat. Then I think...hey what about these Bitcoin I have lying around. I'll just give them some of that!"

But no. That is impossible!

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/FAQ/en#Why_does_the_Wikimedia_Foundation_not_currently_accept_Bitcoin.3F


Fine. I'm not going to argue whether or not the safest way to be responsible and prudent for the Wikimedia foundation is using Bitcoin or USD. But accepting payment in Bitcoin that is immediatly converted into USD exposes them to no risk other than that which they are already taking by holding fiat.

People would be donating Bitcoin, but Wikimedia would be recieving USD. Basically it would be the same thing as accepting PayPal as a middleman converting creditcard IOUs into dollars in Wikimedias bank account - which they are already doing!

Does anyone know how we can explain succintly to Wikimedia that they don't have to assume the Bitcoin "risk" (or safety) by letting people pay with them?

Send them an email explaining this.

Maybe you will be the straw that breaks the camel's back  8)

They will see how much money they are missing out on.

If you mouse-over that banner, they have a "trouble donating?" link. If goes to their Ways to Give/en (https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give/en).

One of the options is stock. Just recently, the Winklevoss twins have announced a Bitcoin derived stock (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312513279830/d562329ds1.htm). I am not sure how well it will track the price of Bitcoin, but if all goes well, it should be possible to indirectly donate Bitcoin the the Wikimedia foundation. It would be silly if they say that they can't accept a specific stock due to Bitcoin exposure.

Yes, there position is really irrational, and there was a thread on how it can be argued it really is contrary to their stated goals.

Probably best if people just keep hammering on them.

If a hosting service were to offer Wikimedia a large discount if they pay in bitcoins, that might the thing that convinces them that bitcoin has real value.

We need to explain to merchants how they can pay their costs in bitcoin rather than cashing out all their bitcoin revenue through Bitpay.

So what you're saying is you can't even buy something to eat for bitcoins.

Now why do you expect others to willingly take them then?

I'd think twice if all those "freedom loving initiatives" seem to only want creditcard / bank payments for some reason.

Most likely they will change their mind once bitcoin is widely accepted.

Someone (major) has got to make a start and maybe the Wikimedia foundation would not be the worst chioce.

I think you have a good explanation. Have you sent them an email? Maybe if some of us do, they will start thinking about it.

You can donate with bitcoins, just not directly: http://blog.bitpay.com/2012/11/donate-to-wikipedia-with-bitcoin.html

I think you are a bit irrational. As much right as you have to value bitcoins, everyone else has as much right to deem them worthless.

So I have enough fiat to eat and pay bills for the time being. But I can't really afford to support Wikipedia at the moment. What I mean is there is no consumption not necessary that I can cut down on to help Wikipedia out for the time being.

And I'm not saying Wikimedia should keep Bitcoins around, only accept someone like Bitpay or something to accept payment in Bitcoin and exchange it to USD and provide Wikimedia with the USD.

Surely taking bitcoin or bitcoin exchanged for cash is better than no donations at all?

Instead of trying to change the mind of the administrators, how about we solve the problem ourselves? It's obvious the administrators want to stay away from legally gray stuff. (see: linking silkroad's .onion address) We can have a trusted member receive bitcoin donations and send the fiat to wikimedia organization.

If you read my post I'm not saying anyone should value Bitcoins. I'm saying I don't want to get into the discussion of whether Bitcoin is safer and more prudent than USD.

Maybe I should have made this clearer but what I was talking about is for Wikimedia to use a payment processor for Bitcoin like Bitpay - just in the same way they use Paypal as a payment processor for credit cards. In that way, Wikimedia would be recieving USD when I pay in Bitcoin.

We already have this obtion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128382.0

+1

If Wikimedia could host for Bitcoin, and pay that with Bitcoins they got donated to them it would be fantastic!

How about going to the BitPay website yourself, and scrolling down a bit 'till you see this:
http://s21.postimg.org/4csarlqqv/Capture.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Problem solved? :)

Edit:  See?  The nice folks at BitPay thought of everything! http://s15.postimg.org/msiqv0fzf/Capture.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

To everyone suggesting to pay to someone who will then pay Wikimedia in USD, thanks for the tip!

However I think it is a shame that Wikimedia cannot set up a service like that on their methods to donate website.

Edit: I'm now proceeding to make a payment to Wikimedia through bitpay and to writing Wikimedia an email!

So now I have donated through the fresh looking Bitpay website and sent an email to donate@wikimedia.org (donate@wikimedia.org).

This is the email I sent, and I urge you to send the same or a similar one. I will update here when I get a reply:

Bitpay is cool and all, but big companies MUST accept BTC for it to survive and thrive. We need to start a campaign for Wiki to accept BTC!!!!

Simply refuse to donate in anything other than crypto-currencies, everywhere. If they don't accept crypto, they don't need
money that urgently anyway.

Agreed.

But Wikipedia official accepting Bitcoin donations through a Bitcoin payment processor is enough to gain the media hype of "Wikipedia accepts Bitcoin". That is step one.

Logic demands that Wikipedia should pay for their hosting in Bitcoin if possible, but then we are talking about a hosting facility able to sort out one of the world's most popular websites. Hence it is better to talk to the hosting provider that Wikimedia already uses and ask them if they are willing to accept Bitcoin if Wikimedia is willing to do it. Then we are talking about step two (and three).

I disagree right now. Wikipedia is too important and useful not to fund, regardless of how slow they are to accept Bitcoin. Your argument would probably be a lot more valid in a year or two.

They are retarded if they don't take BTC donations.

Wikipedia just sucks. Did you ever try making a change? Someone who considers themself in charge of the article will soon revert your changes and claim you are spamming. :-\

I consider this the next best thing. Ideally, I, perhaps others, would love to see a dedicated Bitcoin address, possibly a vanity one, specifically used for this purpose.

I do not mean this to be set up as such as some sort of nefarious check, but a way for bitcoiners to easily point out to others another case study.

I have the utmost respect for Team BitPay.

I'm a bit confused what is an artificial currency? As opposed to a natural one? Currencies are consensus driven products that serve as a means of exchange, a store of value and a unit of account. It's utterly nonsensical to me that they have taken a position that only sovereign nations are capable of creating such a product.

The citizens of Zimbabwe would probably prefer Bitcoin anyday to their local currency. In fact, many in Africa use cell phone minutes as a local money supply. Prisoners have used cigarettes. Michael Unterguggenberger proved that as long as the social contract of money was maintained that any authority could create a functional money (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Unterguggenberger).

In my opinion, it's utter ignorance and perhaps even politically bent. In any event, i've lost a great deal of respect for Wikimedia. They attack a currency that was built by an open sourced community while their own products were cut from the same cloth. Recall the established encyclopedias attacking the credibility of Wikipedia?  

https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsinloVxXa1qafrh6.png

Imagine that real currency is a currency backed by a country's economy & military might, and a fake currency is a currency backed by... backed by nothing.
The real currency isn't backed by the nice men who make the plates and run the presses that print the bills -- that's just how money is printed.  Bitcoin is similarly not backed by the nice miners who run their rigs 24/7 -- that's just how bitcoins are made.  Get it now?

i wrote this to them. Feel free to just copy paste it.


Hello,

I wish WikiMedia accepted Bitcoins donations. As a fierce supporter of free and transparent information and a shining example of what groups of people can achieve together, it seems to me like supporting Bitcoins would make sense. Not only financially (there are no fees involved) but also ideologically.

I hope you will re-consider your position on Bitcoins. The future of cryptocurrencies and all of the benefits it brings forth for everyone in the world depends on pioneers such as yourself to legitimize it in the eyes of the masses.

This.  I am a long time donator to both EFF and wikipedia. 

A while back EFF came out with some dubious reasons for not accepting Bitcoin.  Worse those reasons were often used by other organizations for not accepting Bitcoins.  I stopped my donations to the EFF.  They called/emailed me a couple times in their annual fund raising drives and I simply reiterated I would donate once they accepted Bitcoins but not before.

https://supporters.eff.org/donate

EFF now accepts Bitcoins again. 

Vote with your wallets.  No need to get angry, or outraged.  Just calming indicate to wikipedia why you will not ever donate until they accept Bitcoin donations.  When millions of people do that they will get with the program.

Your condescending attitude is not appreciated. You have yet to address any single concern or point I made in my OP. Bitcoin, like the USD, is backed by both consensus and utility. It, like every other currency that has established a social contract with its users, does not require an army. In fact, if a currency requires an army to maintain, then I would argue it is a failed instrument. As for the scope of the economy, Wikimedia has the option of accepting Bitcoins converted to the fiat of their choice thus they are not exposed to the volatility of the markets.

You also have chosen to completely ignore the hypocrisy of their actions. Wikipedia was a product that received years of criticism from an elite cadre of companies who had controlled encyclopedias and peer reviewed knowledge. They said only special people and trusted organizations could be capable of producing a credible encyclopedia. Now the leadership at Wikimedia are taking the same position with money? We open sourced money and this effort somehow is wrong while open sourcing knowledge is right? It's beyond defense.   

An excellent point.  Wikipedia speaks with forked tongue.  They have become death, the destroyer of worlds.

On the contrary, I pointed out that what you claimed to be impossible was, in reality, rather trivial.  I then outlined the steps you should take for success.
In your following post, you stated that "[you are] a bit confused what is an artificial currency?"  Since you chose to end that statement with a question mark, i assumed sincere ignorance on your part, offering to resolve your confusion.  I now see that a word to the wise doesn't apply here.  I'll try again.


Unlike the dollar, the consensus is limited to a handful of people, of which wikipedos are obviously not a part.  The utility has also been shown as lacking, as you have found out by trying to donate to wikip.  Thank goodness i was able to partially compensate for the lacking utility by pointing you to the BitPay page & further guiding you with pictograms.


You don't understand the contract part of "social contract."  A contract is meaningless if it can not be enforced.  That's how bitcoin is unlike any currency.


You could, and you seem to be, though you'd be dead wrong.


Yes they could, but they chose not to.  They also didn't want to accept my old sneakers, which are perfectly good & you could sell them for like 5 bucks.  They're picky that way.  Their right -- Freedomz!


I'm not going to argue about the meaning of life or the meaning of wikip -- both have been done to death & played out.  Suffice it to say that wikip's stance regarding Bitcoin is not only defensible, but so commonplace that even questioning it is absurd.

TL;DR: Start your own wiki, and accept every clone coin -- no one will step on UR Freedomz.   

Lol.  First part: American Indian (native american), second: Indian Indian.  BitcoinDrama. :D

You first compare Bitcoin to old sneakers?


Then have no concept of history. How's that 1920s German money working out for you? I'm sure the army can force you to accept it for goods and services.


Because if I promise to give someone a gold bar for services rendered and I don't give them the gold bar an American court won't enforce our agreement? It's a social contract and I can enforce it within my sovereignty. I will concede that Bitcoin is intrinsically global, but just like an American business working with a Chinese entity, there is limited governmental enforcement of these contracts. Yet we still trade productively with China.


Questioning a non-profit for taking a stance that an open sourced movement similar in nature to the one that created them is invalid? It's elitism and ignorance that you continue to broadcast. You don't need governments to enforce social contracts anymore. Globalization has eliminated such Westphalian notions.


Again with the condescending attitude. There doesn't appear to be anything productive in us debating any further. You obviously have an inflexible opinion and have decided to label anyone who opposes it as ignorant. This action by wikimedia is arrogant and belies the philosophy they were founded on. Bitcoins are not old sneakers. They are a new form of economic liberty that unchains our dependency on governments for stable commerce. Wikimedia could at the very least use a middleman to process Bitcoin donations. For them, and you, to label CCs are artificial is both hypocrisy and utter ignorance to the nature of money.  

If the shoe fits...


You overestimate my age -- i wasn't around back then.  What i *can* tell you is the US dollar has made me twice as rich as i would have been had i invested in Bitcoin.  Over a single month. :)  Making monyz without even trying. 


I have no idea, depends on the services ;)  But let's say the court decides to enforce the contract.  The judge sez GUILTY! and you laugh & walk out of the courtroom, forgetting to tip the bailiff.  What happens then?  More words, or a show of force? (SPOILER: A show of force)


Lolz your wat  ??? :D


Did you consider that our chummy relationship with China might be a teensy bit influenced by potential for armed conflict?  Or is it just 'cos we Americans are such nice guys no one would evah think of ripping us off?  Just a thought.


Slow down, sparky.  Non-profit means simply that -- non-profit.  They are not funded by you, they don't need to answer to you, and they certainly don't need to accept donations in quasi-currencies unless they wish to.  Which they do not.  :)


I get it.  Everyone who doesn't agree with you is bigoted, hypocritical, ignorant & rotten to the core -- me, wikip...  Well, i'm in good company :)  Wish you didn't call us all them nammeses, but :'(

"those not backed by the full faith and credit of an issuing government"  :)

Does anyone know what would be a good email address to send our thoughts to?

Yes.  It is especially disturbing that they would write such a thing.

Here it is:
problemsdonating@wikimedia.org
donate@wikimedia.org

from
https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage&country=US&uselang=en&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_source=donate&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org

or
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Problems_donating/en

Thanks TippingPoint.

Dear Wikimedia,

I have a small amount of money - around $10,000 equivalent - that I would like to donate to support your awesome efforts at keeping information free and available to the people of this world.  I have been trying to find a way to get my funds to you, but it seems your organization does not accept bitcoin.  All of my funds are held in bitcoin.  I would like to donate.  Please consider accepting bitcoins for donations so I can give!

Thanks

Maybe what we could do is set up a wallet with a trusted member and then everybody makes donations to that wallet. Once Wikimedia starts accepting Bitcoin, the sum of the wallet will be donated to Wikimedia. In that way we could constantly update them with how much money they are missing out on and we could prove it as well! Once the amount becomes big enough it would be really not prudent at all for them to say no.

I wasn't aware that we had any trusted members.

"small" amount of money!! Either you are being sarcastic or you are one of the early adopter Bitcoin millionaires who has lost touch with the value of money because it is so easy for them. $10,000 is more than a year's wages for the majority of the people on this planet.

We have one at least:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3

Because if we can't trust him then God help us. :D

If we all send in emails maybe they'll reconsider.  I just sent one encouraging them to have a look at merchant services from bitpay and coinbase.

I was mostly being facetious and was trying to imagine how someone with many thousands of bitcoins might have thought about it.  It Wikimedia thinks I have a shit ton of money, maybe they would be more receptive to the request.  I think I actually changed the 'small' amount to $1,000 in my actual email.

The Seasteading Institute has accepted Bitcoin donations for quite a while. TSI is promoting and researching ocean colonization.

http://www.seasteading.org/donate/

This problem was solved in the first page of the thread.

I'm sorry but the problem is not solved.
The problem here is not how to donate bitcoin to wikipedia but how to get them approve bitcoin as a legitimate currency.
Unless they tell publicly that they are accepting bitcoin as donation option, I am stopping all donation to them. Not because I can't but because I'm boycotting them to add some pressure.

Very strange position indeed.
They claim to be monitoring the "artificial" ??? currency with interest, but they're just hoping it ends up being backed up by some government...
When bitcoin was designed specifically not to give a shit about any government backing.
They probably can't read, or something.

Anyway, thanks OP, I wasn't aware of that, and will quit donating to them, too.

We'll give a try with this one...

Wikipedia clearly does not need money that much. Do not donate anything to them until they accept bitcoin.

Starving children clearly do need food that much. Do not donate anything to them until they accept tree bark.

You cannot trade tree bark for money and then food but You can trade bitcoin for money and then food.

Your comment is pointless

Let me explain how IRL works:
Wikip has to maintain a pristine public image to appease its major corporate & private donors, and to remain open to future, potential donors who, in turn, only wish to be associated with goodness & light.  That's why wikip does not wish to *publicly* accept money from, let's say, the Russian mafia -- doing so would negatively impact its bottom line.  It *will* accept such donations through a proxy, such as BitPay -- such transactions will not blemish it in the public eye.

Likewise, Wikip does not wish to accept donations in Bitcoin, due to Bitcoin's associations with hookers & blow.  Wikip does not wish to risk tainting its public image by associating with Bitcoin. 
This may or may not be "fair," but that's how it iz.

Well, right they accept any currency as long as the "associations" of the currency are not directly seen on their Page:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/06/29/wikipedia-accepts-enemies-of-the-internet-currencies/

Appearances are often more important IRL than substance.  Wikip sees Bitcoin as a bigger liability than accepting money from "the enemies of the internet."  As i said, wikip is happy to take your money if you launder it through BitPay or another proxy.  If donating to entities that don't wish to take your money is important to you, do it through BitPay -- you'll be enriching a Bitcoin business, and the Bitcoin economy as a whole. :)

O RLY? Do they now? Tell me more about how exactly Wikipedia would trade bitcoin for money. Please be specific. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/Taeradun/smile/emot-allears.gif

"artificial currency"

if this is not an oxymoron I don't know what is

FIAT is more artificial, as it is much easier to create!

We need to add a comeback...writing

I can't believe you don't know about bitpay or BIPS

Seems to me people hate the Bitpay solution and want Wikipedia to accept Bitcoins directly (I'm kinda guessing here from the screams of "we hate the Bitpay solution and want Wikipedia to accept Bitcoins directly").

Which begs the question above how this US organization is going to exchange their Bitcoins into Dollares.

People want so see wikipedia using bitpay services directly on their website and do not want to donate via bitpay website to wikipedia.

It's not a practical concern, it's a principle concern.

See here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249143.msg2689639#msg2689639) why it'll nevah happen.

It's high-level wankery. You're not going to make your currency more popular by being as annoying as possible towards the ones you look for to be accepting of your currency. It's also not helping when it turns out that those before who had been badgered into accepting the currency to get rid of the annoybots, ultimately ended up paying more for administrative/accounting needs than they got as income from the new currency (see reddit, humble bundle)

Bitcoin image can and will change over time. That's why it will happened

Any proof of what you are saying here?

Sure, but pestering people who don't want to accept your interwebz monyz is simply ... undignified.  Once Bitcoin's image is good enough, it's value stable enough, the laws regarding it are unambiguous enough & it's easy enough to use, people will accept it.  Free market roolz.

Sure:

Re: Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19t3uq/hey_rbitcoin_you_asked_for_some_stats/


Re: Humblebundle

I'll have to go look for the screenshot/source but the amount of humble bundles sold for bitcoin was a glorious.... 2.

I thought Wikimedia did take Rubles. The Russian government does qualify as an organized crime syndicate, with over 20,000,000 in body count.

I've been thinking about this too.  I use Wikipedia all the time and would love to donate, but I don't want to fuck around with PayPal or anything, and I'm kinda strapped for cash to begin with.  Rather than swap out my BTC for USD, I'd rather just send them to BTC directly.

But if they don't think my money is good enough, then I guess I won't be donating :P

plz all mail to this adress asking if you can donate using bitcoin: donate@wikimedia.org

Those dumb Russians didn't file the organized crimez registration on time, so they're still a gobment :( Besides, Wikimedia has an affirmative action program for recovering communists.

Sincerely,

The Elders of Zion
C/O The Illuminati
The Fancy Dacha at The End Of Times,
666999

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-unit-of-account-germany

Circumstances changed, so they have to revisit their position.

The article you have linked to says absolutely nothing even vaguely like that Germany are providing full faith an credit to Bitcoin as a currency.
Not close. No matter how hard you squint.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2013/08/25/the-federal-governments-reaction-to-bitcoin-is-an-acknowledgement-of-the-dollars-vulnerability/

Which translates exactly how to them backing or issuing the currency?
The full faith a credit bit you quoted and bolded, how does that fit in?
I'm pretty sure Germany recognise the dollar, pound, RMB and Yen as currencies too, but they don't back or issue them.

Good news!  
Bitcoin transactions are taxable in Germany!  And "...companies wanting to use it for commercial transactions would need permission from the Federal Financial Supervision Authority".
Pure win!

"In contrast with Germany, Thailand's central bank declared in July that it was illegal to trade Bitcoins, use them to buy or sell goods or services in the country, or 'move them in or out of the country'."

Both quotes from the linked article.

Probably you're right. English isn't my mother tongue, and I interpreted differently.

Pains me to say it, but this ^^^. I'm not sure that wikipedia is exactly the font of unbiased knowledge that everyone celebrates it for. It's hugely valuable in so many articles, but the history and the politics are often pretty politicised.

I've noticed this a few times myself on certain articles, but as the saying goes, history is written by the victors.

Right now people write wikipedia articles out of the goodness of their heart. While not accepting Bitcoin is a little silly and based on misconceptions, I can at least see their point of view. English wikipedia has ~4 million articles, while Spanish wikipedia has ~1 million articles. Based on word count, content, and accuracy you could reward people to translate most of those ~3 million articles.

An interesting experiment would be create a Wikipedia clone that rewards people that actually edit/create the articles. Want an good article on an obscure or technical subject? Just place a few Bitcoin bounty on it and someone would write it for you.

Why a clone? You can do this on the real Wikipedia right now.

Hmm... Please let people know how to do that on the real Wikipedia?  Since most of the authors do not leave their donation Bitcoin address there?  Thank you.

You could write a message on this forum, or use the discussion pages on Wikipedia.

«*** bitcoins bounty for...»

Maybe a plugin for Mediawiki would allow to setup such bounty feature ?

Alice wants to learn about Something. She puts a bounty on the Something article.
Bob knows everything about Something and is happy to contribute. He writes or adds content to the Something article.
Alice is notified that the article was enriched, she unlocks the bounty if she's pleased with the result.

someone edit this page better than i did under finances. i dont know how to post sources or links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation

This is why we can't have nice things.

Indeed, I'm sure that has really helped to change Wikipedia's opinion of Bitcoin for the better.
From someone who can't even tell the difference between a payment processor and a currency. (Paypal is not a currency)

I think it is time we try and see if BIPS can make a difference in this case.

So OK listen guys, I will take it upon myself getting Wikimedia to accept Bitcoin for donations being based in Europe and all, if that will have anything to say. I will report back in this thread with my progress.

I have already create a preliminary integration for them, so they will get the opportunity of accepting Bitcoin payment served on a silver plate.

The permalink is as follows:

https://bips.me/checkout/invoice/39d/Yb  - $10 donation amount
https://bips.me/checkout/invoice/39d/Zb  - $100 donation amount

Any Bitcoin paid to these invoices will be sent directly to Wikimedia Foundation, if for any reason anyone would pay to them before Wikimedia Foundation agrees to run a test.

A very elaborate email was just sent to the Wikimedia Foundation, explaining "How would it work", "Automatically conversion", "Daily bank wires in their own defined currency", and of cause the BIPS account details with everything defined, only missing their bank account information.

Kind regards
Kris

I would recommend no one support Wikimedia until they officially accept BTC.

Great point. You could simply make a subwebsite or plugin to handle just that on the regular Wikipedia. I'm curious if there would be enough interest to get this done.

I think that is a nice idea. Do things well, let them know exactly how it works (and be compatible with their current esthablished system), show them concretely see the benefits.

Wikimedia aren't closed mind, they are just overly cautious and they don't want to be pioneer (and I agree that it's frustrating from an organization that has been respected for their support for open-source and freedow of speech.. but hey, maybe they don't get it :-) )

+1 for making accepting Bitcoin as easy as possible before initiating the conversation. As a community, we should be doing this more.

https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/07/30/wikimedia-foundation-now-accepts-bitcoin/

\o/

I personally sent them several emails.

Im going to donate now.