Bitcoin Forum

Hi! i'm willing to take smaller amounts from multiple individuals until I get 200 BTC provided you can loan at least 10 BTC.

I had a 500 BTC loan here before which was paid back, I have a good OTC rating, and 2 of 2 loans fully repaid on btcjam. References upon request.

The loan will be secured out of my personal btc assets which are worth about 100 BTC, and my paycheque, however what I am doing is very low risk (i want to buy BTC and want to lock in today's rate) so it's not going to be an issue.

PM or post here!

You can send to my firstbits (1usagi8WQJvnCoyV21XSZyUHhC6MzfksW) and sign a PM with what you sent me, or we can discuss alternate terms here or in PM first.

Is it because you lost 100 on just-dice this morning?

You may want to clarify this as it makes no sense at present.

If you borrow BTC you CAN'T buy BTC - as you already have BTC.  Borrowing to lock in a rate only makes sense in two circumstances:

A.  The loan is denominated in USD.
B.  You intend to SHORT BTC (which means SELLING not BUYING).

To go long on BTC you have to borrow USD (or BTC with repayment pegged to USD - so the loan is denominated in USD just transacted in BTC).  So either you mistakenly said "BUY" when you meant "SELL" or you meant the loan to be denominated in USD but failed to say so.

just 1% a week?

ciuciu:
Lol no, I posted why I wanted the BTC. Second to that, I didn't lose 100 on just-dice, and third, I was looking for this since yesterday (ask Graet). I remember you lent me BTC last time on the CPA liquidity loan, which I repaid to you on time IIRC. Would you like to lend me again? Thanks.

Deprived:
Sure, whatever. But for the purposes of this forum it's best and easiest to describe it as someone lending me 100 BTC for a couple weeks. You game?

bitnubbio:
if you would like to propose alternate terms, you're free to do so. Please keep in mind that 1% a week is about double what you will find anywhere else (i.e. LTC-ATF.B1, even if you can get it at face value, only pays 0.6% a week. And you can't get it at face value in any reasonable quantity).

ok but IMHO lend 200 BTC (almost 14 grands at today value) to get back 6 to a person in a forum its quite risky...

I'll take 10 BTC at once, I just want to lock in today's BTC price. I live in Asia and I have to get my money out via ATM and it will take me weeks to move the money I want to use to buy bitcoins. I'd love to just do a bank wire from my home country but I can't do that unless I'm in my branch.

You're getting Bitcoins to buy more Bitcoins..?

Yes. It works like this:

The price hits $70. I decide I want to pull $7k out of my bank account and buy 100 bitcoins. But I want to make sure I get them at $70. I believe the price will rise later. So what I do is I start pulling the money out of my account and buying bitcoins, but in order to lock in the price of $70 USD I make sure to take out a bitcoin denominated loan first. This way if the price goes back to 100, I can just return the loan itself without buying the bitcoins, but if bitcoins remain the same or go down I can make a profit. Wire fees alone are worth more than the % interest I am offering, so this is a good deal for me, and a good deal for whoever wants to loan me the money assuming they are merely interested in a % return.

Come on guys, this is the lending forum. This is basic stuff :)

The reason why I want to do this is because I am a foreigner living in asia and I cannot transfer the money out of my account without being in my bank's branch. So I need to use my ATM and my ATM has a weekly limit which will cause this process to take 3+ weeks.

Essentially this is one of the smallest loans I've asked for (as low as 10 BTC) and it pays well in BTC. If you or anyone else is interested drop me a line.

Then again there's always the "reputation loan" people on btcjam if you want more money  ::)

Umm, that's shorting.

Not really. If I was shorting and BTC rose, I would have to buy back the BTC and I would be at a loss. In this situation I simply don't buy the BTC and return the loan (no loss besides what I would have paid on wire fees). But if BTC drops, I would profit appriximately what a short would profit.

Your reward for this is house odds of 1% a week :)

It's just a loan.

usagi that makes no sense at all...

First of all, a profit means you have in the end more USD.

If you lend 100 Bitcoins @ $70 and just keep them, then you lose money, paying the interest, either way. If the price goes up, you have to pay back the 100 BTC + interest, if the price goes down you have to pay back 100 BTC + interest. Its right that you dont lose much (only 1%/week) either way, but you also dont make any profit (profit in USD) at all.

If you want to buy BTC and lock the price in @ $70, then take a USD denominated loan, and buy the BTC. Later you can pay back the loan with your bank accounts money. (a typical long position) You obviously lose money (USD) in case the price goes down, but you also actually "lock in" the price at $70 and make some profit (in USD) in case the price is rising.

Sure it does. Someone lends me BTC and I pay them 1% a week.

Wow... I never thought that there would be a scenario in which I feel more comfortable loaning *without* a loan reason.

Well it's true there's never been a worse time to ask for a loan, 1% a week is small compared to the pirate-like returns you can get in certain vehicles these days (ASICMINER, etc). But if you've ever tried to pull money out and send it to Japan you know the price can change drastically in a matter of days. That is what I am trying to avoid. If I can get the BTC now, then I have the luxury of playing the exchange rate for 3 weeks until I buy BTC. It's kind of like leveraged trading; i'm leveraging the cost of 1% of the loan for the high likelyhood the price will move more than 1% over the next 3 weeks.

I don't think you quite understand what you're doing... If you want to lock in the exchange rate, which is what you're describing, you take out a USD loan (or a USD denominated loan) and buy BTC.

I don't get how getting a loan of BTC would lock in the exchange rate.

it's been explained a couple times already :)

If the price of BTC goes up, I simply pay off the loan with the loan itself plus 1%. I end up not losing very much since I don't pay transfer fees on the fiat.

if the price of BTC goes down, I can buy more BTC which covers the 1%.

But in both cases you're worse off than if you hadn't taken the loan at all (by the amount of interest you paid).  Everyone except you can see that - maybe if you wrote it all down then compared it to a scenario where you didn't have the loan you'd finally get it.

Only time the loan makes sense is if you're deliberately shorting BTC - so selling them (as opposed to the buying you claimed) in which case your own USD is irrelevant.

Or, of course, you're just not being honest about the purpose of the loan - e.g. your plan is to deposit it into Just-Dice and earn more than 1% per week.

As usual with you, noone else can tell whether you're being stupid or lying : just that it's definitely one of them.

I think you should actually THINK about what you're doing before taking a $14k loan.

There is literally no point in doing this unless you're planning on shorting BTC.  You lose 1% either way.  If you don't take the loan, you lose 0%.

Are you sure you're not just using this to gamble?

I'm going to respond to this with a quote from... yourself.


You're expecting to lose money?

 ::) It's called a loan nimda. If the price rises, I just pay back the loan in BTC. There's many things I want to use the money for. For example, my bitvps annual bill just came in yesterday. I could also use the money to fund activities of TU.SILVER. Silver is below $19 last I checked and I would like to buy another 50 oz.

But it's beginning to look like the actual mechanics of how I hedge are clearly beyond a cursory explanation and I don't have time to get into it beyond what I have said -- this is a loan -- etc.

Essentially I've taken out and repaid loans for 500+ BTC and have handled over 2,000 BTC at one time with my issues on various exchanges, I'm good for the money and 1% is a good rate on a weekly basis. Any takers?

There's a reason CoinLenders specifically prohibits lending to gamblers.
Answer the question. With the things I quoted, it follows that you expect to lose money on the loan.

You didn't specify that before. Before, you simply had a plan that made no sense to anyone except yourself.

People normally don't lend blindly; they want to know what you're using the money for so that they can be reasonably sure that you can pay them back.

Sorry nimda but obvious troll is obvious. Stating that CoinLenders doesn't loan to gamblers was the icing on the cake consindering the multiple 400+ BTC bets tradefortress has made on just-dice. I just can't believe someone who advertises leveraged options in their sig can't wrap their minds around a simple loan/btc hedge. Same goes for deprived, if he really doesn't get it that's pretty scary considering how many assets he runs (seven? eight? i can't count that high).

Anyway the loan has been filled and I've started moving the money, but thanks for the b-movie entertainment. Offer closed.

If you say so
You never answered the "expect to lose" part.
Which is more likely?
- You explained it wrong
- Everyone in this thread except you is crazy

i understood it :)