Bitcoin Forum

People are automatically so offended when a coin Founder tries to make a profit off the coin they worked so hard to launch.  

Like ixCoin, the guy only pre-mined 560K coins, out of 21 Million, hardly a large amount, and for that ixCoin was killed dead in its tracks.  Well, it's still around but it's in zombie land.

So what's a fair way for founders to make some money. It should be a way which forces them to promote the coin instead of pumping and dumping which means no premining as those coins can be dumped anytime.

I suggest no premine, and instead, founders, would instead get a preset % from the mined coins.  For example 25%, which would go toward everything from profits to admin, overhead and marketing costs. This way the coins are coming gradually and the founders are forced to do anything necessary to get the Coin's price up over the long term.

So then what about a coin where 25% goes to charity, 25% to founders for profit and overhead, and 50% to miners?  Considering some coins are only giving miners 10%-20%, I think this is the most fair way to do a distribution - where everyone comes out a winner.

I can't believe this poll.

Everyone is voting for no special payout to founders.  That's like saying: yeah, we want nice Nike shoes but the founder who does all the work and ensures high quality, well, you better work on the assembly line if you want a nice pair of shoes like the rest of us.

That's called Communism.

What is wrong for getting paid a reasonable fee or % for starting and Maintainjng a good crypto coin which in turn can make you, the miner a lot of money?  Why is that bad?

Why is everyone against coin founders making some decent coin to provide you all with more and better coins to mine and essentially make free cash from home while you're off at school or work?  Better coins means more good coins to mine which means more cash to go around as more better stringer miners come online. 

We need each other, you guys need more good coins to come out as the existing coins get too hard to mine.  Why not pay a fair distribution to those founders and if their work sucks then they won't get much since there's no premine.

Except if this was communism, you would be told you are going to make a coin, you wouldn't choose to do it

BTW, Nikes are made in China. Bad analogy

Bitcoin, Litecoin, PPC had no developer fee, or premine.  Any new coin is competing against that.

Don't worry though premine if you want or do something as asinine as give developer 25% of all mined coins into perpetuity.  It doesn't really matter, there is always someone willing to mine the next coin nobody how limited or short of a lifespan it has.

I would have to say it would all be dependant on the coin, and what changes it brings to the table.  If the coin is like 99% of the other alt coins announced here, where the developer copies a coin, and maybe changes 1-2 parameters, then launches it, they don't deserve any more then the people mining the coin.  No additional bonuses.

If they truly bring something new and innovative to the table, then yes they probably deserve some sort of additional payout.  Only 4-5 coins in my mind stand out as truly innovative.  Bitcoin, Litecoin (To popularize Scrypt, I know it wasn't the first to use it), PPCoin (PoS), Novacoin??? Maybe  (LiteCoin/PPCoin hybrid).  Others that I am leaning towards are PrimeCoin (first to use hash power for scientific research) and eMunie (only because I don't quite understand what it is/how it works yet.)

I personally don't mind premined coins, when the coins are destined for things such as a coin mixing service, or as bonuses or prizes to get people onboard.  If a coin is truly successful, it would probably get a lot of donations.  Heck even this forum has enough donations/ads that they need people to hold funds.  I have seen a lot of development donation funds from some of the big and small coin developers.  

Lastly, the idea of giving a percentage of coins back to the developer.  For the most part, I will not mine a coin with that philosophy.  But for the most part it has to do with the developer, what they are doing, and what the donation is.  When I look at a coin like Zenith Coin, I shake my head.  Developer wants 50% of all coins mined, doesn't really seem to be doing much developing, and from what I could tell seemed like a troll of the forums.  Although I admit, it was confusing because for the longest time it seemed like 2 people both claimed to be the head developer of the coin.  Not sure if someone that was a dick tried to take it over by force or what was going on, but those 3 factors insured I would never mine that one.  If on the other hand someone had a 5% donation to developer, and they were actively developing/pushing to get businesses to use their coin, I would be all for it.  I would even consider a 25% donation if the developer really showed he was trying to get the coin to take off.  

I still maintain, the biggest easiest market for a coin to get some real value behind it would be to work out a deal with a Free to play (Microtransactions) payment option.  When I look at the games I play, there are usually 15+ ways you can pay for micro transactions.  If Cryptocurrency can't even push the idea into a business where they sell virtual merchandise with no risk to the vendor, then we should all give up on the idea a cryptocurrency would ever be used as a regular form of payment.  If a developer was seen to really be pushing/rallying some of the companies to accept their coin (in a billion dollar virtual industry), it would help the coin, and give value to paying them a % or good donation.  99% of the alt coins developers seem content with small gambling places, 1-2 sextoy stores and possibly a store or 2 selling Steam codes.  That's not the innovation I am looking for when I want to go all out for a currency.

Wow, got a lot to say about it hu...... Personally I could care less about premine, I just dont care, as long as network and devs show they are truly behind its success, plain and simple.

Follow Satoshi and let the coin speak for itself

When I see premine, I immediately think scamcoin.

So, you think BTC and LTC are scamcoins?

Made in china doesn't mean much. Phil Knight got lots of shares for taking a risk, working hard and making a great product.  He's worst $10 Billion and I've actually been at his house and played tennis there.

According to these responses, he had no right to make that money and should be worth as much as his assembly line employees.  And there's assembly lines in the US, mainly the air-sole division so lets not split hairs.

That's just not right.

So what's a fair cut?  I don't like premine cause it can be used as a pump and dump so the best would be a preset % given out everyday or every month from the mining.

China is the worlds largest economy, greatest power. They can crush the U.S. like a roach at any time.

I was just trying to show the OP (Who in the last 2-3 days has decided he was coming out with Catholic coin, Charity coin, Santa Coin, "please name me a popular sounding"coin) that he seems more worried about what the name is then the programming behind the coin.  Which to me looks like a huge sign that he is going to change 1-2 parameters from Litecoin, if that.  He might even be one of the latest developers that forgot to even change the name in the read me files to not say Litecoin.  Then he seems like he is ticked we don't want to pay him for all the hard work and developing.  

If he came showing innovation or some fresh ideas, I would be glad to give him the thumbs up on getting something for his troubles.

And nope we don't really "Need" more coins to come out just because.  We already seem to get 10 new ones a day, most will fail within a few weeks, and as miners keep getting more and more spread out, it will make it a lot easier for someone to come 51% piles of coins out of existence.  Already looking at Coinchoose, I see a few network hashrates that could be 51% attacked by someone with dual GPU's.  That's not good, it's scary.

You mean the Feds?

I don't wanna follow Satoshi.  He gets no credit, no money and no fame.  Zero reward.  I'll stick to my 9 to 5 at the bank and keep my life simple instead of neglecting my family pulling 16 hour shifts trying to launch a coin with no guarantees or success.

I don't want a quick buck.  I don't want a pump and dump.  I want to launch a coin which will be around for a long time.

They were, LTC states that in their launch thread, look it up... And we all agree Satoshi was a genius, why the hell wouldnt he have pre-mined any?

I agree but it doesn't have to be that way.  A premine can be ok, but I have to say that's the easiest way to do a pump and dump.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.0  - "Litecoin will come with 150 premined coins:"
 -that we know of.

 Again, do some reading before calling people "morons".

Pretty sure I read that Satoshi pre-mined 800,000 Bitcoins.  They are still sitting in the same wallet.  I know a few people are watching that wallet to see if any ever get spent so they can try to figure out who he really is.  

You got me wrong.  My main focus was a polular coin because i saw if as a good way to bring good value long term.  Lets face it, all this innovation you speak of, Bitcoin and none of it and nobody cares cause its worth $70 per coin. So my main focus wasn't just a name but the long term value as a function of popularity.  But I do want innovation - I want it all for a coin Cause I'm thinking long term.

No, I've never been part of launching any coins.  Can't you tell?

What's OP?

Nice*

He's not gonna spend it cause he's now a tied up loose end.

You read wrong.  Maybe Satoshi MINED (as in post genesis block) x,000 coins but there was no premine in Bitcoin.

You have over 10,000 posts, the most I've ever seen on this forum.  I'm gonna say you're the expert and announce your answer the correct one.

Thanks.

Ok, good to hear.  And yeah I doubt that wallet will ever move

Maybe I should say when I see a large premine, my initial thoughts are it is a scamcoin.
A large premine is an indicator of a scam coin, but doesn't automatically make it one.


"Litecoin had two blocks premined, one more than the minimum single genesis block needed to start a block chain."
Source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Litecoin#.28Slight.29_Premining

If the statement above is true, then all coins would need to be premined.

You have your answer to your own poll. Every alt-coin is worth crap until proven otherwise. It's nothing against the developer, it's just that premining them just lower even more their crappy value.

Agreed but that doesn't answer the poll.

What is a fair way to pay the developer of a new coin.

My idea was a preset % of all mined coins - be it 5% or 25%.  That way his pay is gradual and he will have the incentive to work to make the coin more popular and more valuable.

But it seems few agree with this protocol.  Most want no payouts of any kind and that's silly. We would have no bill gates or Steve Jobs if there was no incentive to get rich.  There has to be a fair and happy medium.

Capitalism and the promise of large profits will bring about the biggest and best coins we've ever seen.  Without those potential profits we'll keep getting the same crap coins with basically a name change.

OP = Original Post.  IE the one you made to start this thread.  

Just wondering.  Just from your wording about certain things.  Are you a programmer?  Or do you have much programming experience?  Or are you thinking about hiring someone to create the coin for you?

Since you are looking for innovation for your coin.  What ways are you things about innovating the coin?  Are you planning on doing more then changing the name of Litecoin to your name??  If that's all your doing, how much do you believe you should get for developing the coin?  Or are you talking more from the perspective of working/developing the coin to be better accepted in the Fait/banking world as a payment option?  

The reason your getting so much negativity is until you can show your different from the 99% of other developers, your categorized in the same group as the rest of them.  Many/most don't do enough to not deserve the answer that is leading in your poll.

Since it's your coin, the ball is really in your court.  Pay yourself as much or as little as you want.  Premine it as a developer fund if you feel like.  If you prove your worth it, people will put their trust in you and mine for your coin.

I'm an economist, so I'm different from 99% of the current developers.

I have only known about crypto-coins for 3 months now and I'm blown away.  People don't realize what they have here.

Bitcoin is just an infant and its gonna grow up faster than the dot com boom. All laugh at the Bitcoin ETF application and the pros think they'll never get approved by the US govt but I'm 100% certain they will, and that will change everything.

That will be phase 2 - alt coin hyper drive.  That will happen next year.  I want to get my own coin launched before that happens cause at that point there's gonna be over 300 coins on the market and dozens of new ones per week.  

This is the final days if you wanna get noticed but I can't program and I'm low on money since I'm not working a regular job right now.

But I want to launch a great coin, and that won't be cheap or easy.

@Vlad2Vlad, honestly you should check out emunie (http://forum.emunie.com/threads/newbies-read-me-first.117/), you sound like exactly what this community is all about.

I've talked to the founder Fuserleer last month just exactly what your OP was describing, and while there is no official announcement yet, I'm very sure the eMunie Foundation will work similar to how you described as a fair premine system, though it will be no where close to 25% you suggested, it will just be a tiny tiny cut from all EMU minted on a continuous basis.

That way founding members have vested interest to keep pushing things forward constantly and make the currency a success, because if it's not, they will receive little or nothing.

Well as long as one is aware that 95% of economists tend to be wrong at any one time your a little bit ahead
I also laugh at the people who think it won't succeed but with the all the BS articles spreading around the internet cannot blame those who look at the surface and it will be their loss.
Unless your a Nouriel Roubini though would not be able to say we can see the future buts that speculation

Interesting.  That's exactly want I'm saying - it's the best way to pay the founders, keep them in the game enough to care about making the coin more valuable.

What a strange name for a coin though.  A Munie is a municipal bond which is the riskiest government bond of them all.  Odd.

On the contrary, it's completely free. The easiness depends on how much you copy and paste.
The way you deserve money is to add services/tools to your currency and earn from those, not just release it and sit back and earn money for nothing.

Well, I've been saying these things for 3 months now.  Things like alt coins will soon greatly increase in number and that's already started. 3 moths ago most thought that wouldn't happen for years to come.

And I said bitcoin was going to walstreet and Main Street, and already, faster than even predicted its applied for an ETF.  I said 2014, would see an explosion in not just bitcoin value but most alt coins.  

And 3 months ago I never read anyone make such bullish remarks and yet they've all come true. I wrote a few articles stating these things for Devcoin - so at least I can back up my claims next year if I'm right and all the doubters jump out saying:  oh, we knew it all along.  

Cause most can't even imagine what's coming.  If they could they'd be holding to every coin and buy more. I'm buying most coins even the ones which are thought to have no future like ixCoin, and the ultra cheap like Devcoin.

Those who take a little risk now can make millions in the next 2 years.  The state and the banks badly want digital cash to make it - way too much power and smart money on our side for this thing to not blow up to the mother of all bubbles.

Sad thing is most here will sell way too early.  Most here will sell it all if they see $100,000 in their accounts. But that's a predetermined outcome and that's why this thing will work so well for many more people but those who get in early stand to make by far the most money.  And this, right now, is early.

And roubini, he was saying buy gold the last 2 years while I was telling everyone I know to dump it.  So at least once I was right and he was wrong.  Lol.  But gold will spike like mad, but not until late 2015.  

And in the short run gold will breach $1,000 and head to $500. And I said this 3 moths ago in one of my articles when gold was $1400.  Nobody then was taking about $1,000 and $500 was crazy talk.

Since it sounds like your not a "developer" but wanting to make an exact clone, and wanting a premine or a % payout per coin mined, I will warn you now, your going to be looking at a very rough road for your coin, unless you can manage to do some pretty crazy things in terms of creating a lot of special services or getting a lot of big time companies onboard.  Not saying you won't make it.  But make sure you aren't easily offended, and start attacking people when you see a lot of bad comments on your Announcement post.  

I look forward to hearing what you will be doing to break away from the others.

What?  What are you talking about?

I thought I needed at least $10,000 for a programmer to launch a coin for me? Free? What?

... Where do you read that? You just open up the code in a text editor, change what you want to change, compile.
Obviously, you can hire people to help expedite that process, but where do you get $10,000 from?

I'm guessing most devs are sleeping or just purely ignoring this post. I released a coin with no premine, looks like a success. However, i support devs who premine for their own pockets if it is within reason. 0.5% ~ 1 % of total can is not much, you guys pay as much as 3% to pools, some coins only have one or two pools, yet you don't complain. And don't try telling me that pools provide a service...so does the dev,

It all depends on how much it costs to do these various things cause I'm low on money.

But I don't get offended easily.  And I look for criticism in any form I can get it to make myself and anything I do better.

But of course I want to make money doing this.  You think Jobs started making computers just for fun?  All huge success stories were in large part driven by potential profits.

But that's not the only thing I want. I want to release better coin but I don't know if I have the money for it and I want to release a coin which actually give back a lot to not just the miners and contributors who help make the coin the best but also to the community, the poor, orphans, etc.

I actually took out OrphanCoin.com, just for that reason.  If I have one good launch then my plan was to launch orphanCoin and give all the profits 100% to orphans worldwide.  The first pure charity coin.

But I first have to make money cause I can't launch a pure charity coin with no money.  I wish I could.

Pools don't provide squat compared to devs.  People in general I think are just jealous.  You think most CEOs would make what they make if the masses were in charge of their salaries?  Even the CEOs that deserve their pay.

I think that's part of the problem here.  Most people can't stand the thought they're helping make some other guy rich.

Well, programmers aren't cheap, right, I figure at least $30 per hour and from what I read you have to change a bit of code especially if you want to add some features so people don't call you a bum.  So $10,000 sounded about right as that only buys you a couple months work at most.

But if its that easy I'd love to at least launch OrphanCoin.  That's not for me, 100% charity so I don't care about features, since people will either buy it to help orphans worldwide or not.  My coin however, whatever it turns out to be, I need to have that done right and I don't have the money for that.

So who can help me launch OrphanCoin.  Pure charity coin.

If you think everything is about money and profit, then I think you are on a wrong track.

Money and profit all boil down to one thing "power & control".
But Steeve Jobs and Bill Gates, while motivated by such things, weren't doing it for power & control, they did it because it is their purpose/mission in life, just like passionate actors/singers act/sing because that is what they LOVE doing, because it's their passion and what life means to them.

If you lived in medieval age, you did not need to have money/gold or silver to feed and take care of the orphans, you just needed to be a king.

These days you can accomplish similar things by being a president, but not as easily as it was for the dictating king 300 years ago.

I Simply don't have the money to launch a charity coin.  I'm not working a regular Job and I have 2 kids. I'm struggling.  That's what I meant. I thought if I had success with a for profit coin then i could easily launch a charity coin. 

I can't give to charity when I'm charity myself.  Tough spot to be in.

another reason to join eMunie, ;) we are already doing what you envisioned, plus the founder Dan (http://forum.emunie.com/threads/hi-im-dan.36/) is a talented experienced dev himself - that's why I joined it (I can't code these things myself, but I had ideas, visions for a digital currency).

I shared my ideas with the founder, and they were taken onboard (compare original system (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220530.0) vs. this new update (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246463.0)) - more than 70% of original ideas were changed because people like me cared to join and make it a better system.

Everyone has his/her own strength, and from my experience of bootstrap outsourcing over 100 freelancers to date, I can tell right of the bat, that if you are thinking of a software development project, but can't code it yourself, consider it FAILED!!! (unless you have millions $ to drain).

Hmm this is long guess I'll reply

Sure the alts coins will increase in number but they won't gain any traction unless some significant improvements can be made to them there is a key difference between a real change and improvement and a mimic like most alt coins being spammed out now.
Instant blockchain compression trading over exchanges instant built in clients and ease of use there is no point in reinventing the wheel
Makes more sense to make the car and improve on it instead of another horse based carriage :)

If you want a premine look at ripple and their closed source code as of today.

In 2014 there will be an increase in the value of altcoins that really do provide decent changes
Litecoin PPCcoin Namecoin and Devcoin perhaps more to the point is that you need to convince me and the market that what the coin of yours in the future will provide is different from the other imitator coins and make it worth the time.

He-he 3 months ago people were reeling from the stench of a 250 to 100 dollar drop that said someone has tried living on bitcoin for a week it still needs time to develop and a coin is not as important as the services it can provide :)

I'm saying you need ammo to build the infrastructure and it's a silly notion to assume that you can make the industry change without needing to put some real work into it the pros and cons of it realistically depend on how you make it are the options more profitable to make a coin or develop on current structures whatever reaches the most people will result in the profit as long as you understand the risk and the safety measures of making a proper currency then that's fine it's necessary to realize the reasons behind the growth and the need for a coin. Utilizing the best profit will come from recognizing the failings of any current currency and improving upon it and bringing change that is the scenario we are in.

Ultimately there are a lot of mixed signals in the market but there are opportunities out there that the market hasn't realized and the market will need to realize that and lock in some rates today to ensure some larger profits tomorrow the location of the investment and where is the best place to put capital is your call.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/24/miners-writedowns-top-17-billion-as-roubini-sees-gold-dropping-to-1000/

@freedomno1,

What can I say.  Money makes the world go 'round and I've got none.

Sad to sit and watch this train go by.  I did buy some mining gear from BFL, maybe that will come next month and then maybe I can make something with that - enough to launch a righteous coin.

So you want me to give all my ideas to the founder of another coin?  Why would I do that?  It's like Gates saying, hey jobs, here's office for you computer Cause it's lacking that.

Sorry man, as much as I want to see a great coin launched and also a good charity coin, there's no way I'm just gonna give away anything I've got to make some other guy's coin better instead of focusing on trying to get mine off the ground.  I'm glad to see you're that trusting and giving but I'm not.

I want to see if I can get a coin launched and if I give any good ideas to another guy that's gone.  And I get a thanks and he gets rich.  That's too much for me.

Wait, didn't that happen?

Then when it didn't work, I seem to recall him shoring them up a bit with a little purchase of stock.

Totally off topic but that was a pretty ironic example.

In that case I wish you luck squared
BFL sucks so I hope the coin works out a lot better
Would say buy 100 alt coins each but I prefer Asicminer
Too much saturation in gambling coin sites and alt coins atm

What I would like to see is advanced trading interfaces using an alt coin built into the client now that would be interesting
Heck if you could get 10 RPG companies to use a game coin between them based on a bitcoin client that works too
Or even aiming titanic scales Giant decentralized stock markets with colored tokens he-he we changed finance and the way we view money why not change the stock exchange next and mess with those damn HFT robots :P

Went into madness there anyways I agree watching these trains go by is annoying but it's best to just build some more capital and then decide where to maximize it if you see a good train passing by  ;)

After all it is savers that provide the equity needed for a company to succeed
If it doesn't crash and burn == Profit
So pick the good train
Best of Luck

Some ideas
T-shirts or making metal versions of all the alt coins for sale lol
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20292.2000;topicseen

Hmm Satoshi lol
I'm working on other things
Anyways
It’s what’s for the betterment of bitcoin that matters

Well, as I see it you are not the Gates or the Job, because you can't code - so your metaphor is out of the windows right away.

As to the "why" question, if you have not heard of it, let me remind you:
Ideas are dozens a dime (http://sivers.org/multiply) - and this comes from the founder of the multimillion dollar CDBaby.com

Why? Because your ideas will likely be wasted anyway, never to take shape and just vapor into nothingness as speculative talk.
(I don't know you, but you said you "can't code" + "no money" + "profit driven" = FAIL)


You are in control of whom you trust to share your ideas.
Plus the person who gets rich off your contributed ideas, proving he is smart enough, will quickly recognise that you are an asset to him.
He will be incentivised to share the profit with you, because he knows you are the one who will make him even richer.

His wealth depends on you - the multiplier

Buying BFL at the current state of Bitcoin and Altcoin just some what suggests to me you don't really have the mindset of an entrepreneur, another reason why I don't think your ideas will ever take fruition on your own.

No, not quite.  Gates used the office Jobs was lacking as a Trojan horse to gain his trust and it worked. Gates then got full access to apple's software and he store everything, mainly the interface which was years ahead of Microsoft.

A decade later when jobs came back, like in 1998 or so, softy invested like $300 million in apple for non-voting stock.  That wasn't just softy being nice, it was part of an anti trust suit against softy.  The government wanted to foster innovation and competition and it worked.

So no, my example was spot on.  Gates didn't give anything away, he got in with a lie and stole everything.

Well, you're presuming the price of bitcoin will stay at $100 or drop while difficulty will go to 100 million.

That's a possibility but I think based on the fact that I'm certain the ETF will get approved (and I seem to be alone on this) that bitcoin will skyrocket later this year and especially next year so now is the time to buy mining rigs cause if I'm right there's gonna be a 1 year wait. 

And I also think the ETF is gonna create a craze and push bitcoin past $1,000 by next year but of course that's crazy talk at this point.  But everything I know about investing tells me there's a high probability of that happening by next year.

If that happens then the mining rigs I bought will be worth their weight in gold, literally.

You have to take some educated risks if you're gonna make it big and that's what I'm doing.  I do realize this is a very high risk at this point as no human on earth thinks Bitcoin will hit $250 next year let alone $1,000.

Good luck.

You're putting a lot of faith in a guy you don't know, or maybe you have a lot of confidence in your ideas.  I have neither. 

I'd rather try things out on my own but your formula for FAIL is spot on.  I can't learn to program in 3 months so them for me to change the formula to WIN I need to come up with the cash.  I'll do my best.

For now I'm accumulating devcoin and ixCoin.  For some reason I have a really strong feeling that one of those 2 will hit it really big.  They're both dirt cheap. Just $1,000 in either one can make you rich if I end up being right.  Not a lot to risk for such potential.  A lot of coins will probably go up a lot after Bitocin gets their ETF but some will go up a lot more than others.

IxCoin is a clone of bitcoin and its been around a while.  Imagine being a banker and seein the bitcoin ETF working out. There's gonna be massive copying of that ETF and ixCoin would be a perfect fit for another ETF.

ixCoin is a perfect risk on a play given Bitcoin gets its ETF AND I'm convinced they will. Devcoin is a more socio-political play. I'm investing in both as much as I can.

It's not about taking risks, the point was, you could just buy lots more Bitcoin for the same money right now, instead of waiting for asics to arrive, by which point difficulty is going to skyrocket, which means for the lifetime of your purchased BFL, it would never mine as many bitcoin as if you just use the purchase money to buy bitcoin when the price is low. If bitcoins disappears, your asics are useless, so it's the same as buying bitcoin.

I also got into bitcoin just 3 months ago, but I decided to build this, instead:
http://ecoinomist.com/images/gpu-mining-rig.jpg (http://ecoinomist.com/weather-proof-gpu-litecoin-mining-rig-pictures)

Reason:

• I can still buy bitcoin anytime I want with my litecoin
• I don't waste time waiting for anything while difficulty sky rockets
• If everything bursts, I can still recoup 60% of my investment selling hardware

Dude, that's crazy.  Is that a giant GPU super computer.

Dude, I've never seen anything like that.  That's crazy.  That must eat what, 8,000 watts?  What giga hash are you getting (for bitcoin)?

You must have spent at least $25,000 building that.  And hey, if GPU's can't mine bitcoin you can't switch to litecoin.  Or sell the GPU's like you said.

Listen, buy yourself just 100,000 ixCoin.  That's gonna cost you just 4 bitcoins.  Just risk that much in case I'm right about this ETF and how it's gonna affect ixCoin.  With your super rig it would take a few years and thousands in electricity costs to mine 100,000 ixCoins.  ixCoin is a steal right now.  I hope you do it.

Congrats - timing and chance is everything and you had the vision and guts and cash to do it in a big way.  God bless you, man.

lol, did you know IxCoin is not even on major exchanges yet? , not even btc-e?

I wish I could wish you luck, but I believe in science, psychology and economics. None of them indicate any potential for BTC in the long run, let alone IxCoin.

I can't stop staring at your rig.  I saved it on my ipad.  Crazy.  I wish I had money to build a quarter of that.  That's just crazy.

Costed about $18,000 USD. It gives me 17,200 MH/s for scrypt mining. I don't mine bitcoin, only litecoin or alts and convert them to bitcoin if the ratio is good.

Eats only 6,000 watts.

IxCoin is a steal because its worth nothing now and less than nothing in the future - that's what I believe.

It trades on vircurex but yeah, it's a zombie coin.

I'm a man of science too man, you can't be an economist and not love math and science.  

But None of this makes sense. Bitcoin doesn't make sense.  These alt coins being allowed to function and undermine the dollar makes no sense.

Bitcoin getting its own ETF is going to shock the entire investment world and that makes zero sense.

There's much more than meets the eye here.  This is all being manipulated.  The banks, multinationals and especially the government have so much to gain from a global crypto currency.  They want the masses to love digital money and giving it away for free is the best way.  This is my biggest premise for thinking the ETF Is a done deal and there's going to be a bitcoin and alt coin madness very soon, latest next year.  

I know, my entire theory is based on a conspiracy theory, but nothing else makes any sense from a fundamental point of view.  Bitcoin should have crashed within days or weeks back down to near zero but instead if found stability at around $100.  That's just not possible.  

There's so much more going on here than anybody realizes and of that ETF gets approved - because there's no way it should, then its going to really confirm my theory.  We'll find out soon.

So that means you'd get about 17 Giga hash if you'd mine bitcoin.  10 to 1 is the ratio I was getting with my tiny human computer.

4 bitcoins is not a lot to risk, a week of your rig working.  Fine, just buy 25,000 ixcoins.  I don't get anything out of it, I just feel so strongly its going up that I feel the need to tell people about it.

Either way, good luck with everything man.  Who knows, maybe BFL will come though.  With roughly $4,000 I bought about 80 giga hash from BFL, but the energy consumption is probably around 800 watts. 

But you're right, if bitcoin goes away those things are paper weight so its a big risk for $4,000.  But since I believe bitcoin is going much higher it was a no brainier for me but I've been wrong plenty of times before.

Good luck.

Been a while since I've seen that.

I'm not a programmer.  I just assumed it took quite a bit of programming otherwise why wouldn't everyone here launch their own coin.

Integrity.

Well, I gotta at least figure out how to launch the charity coin, orphanCoin.  If it's that easy I don't care about making money from that one.

So how many bitcoins bounty do I have to put out there to get a programmer on here to prepare a coin for me to launch?

I haven't a clue.  But you guys make it sound like it's easy.  There's gotta be programmers on here for hire.  Like mercenaries, only with brains and a keyboard.  Lol.

devs should get a certain percentage...

I agree, I think that's the most fair way to do it.

can I see the pic?

It's on the last page, page 3.

There is no good way to do it. I believe in no forced allocation to the founder because its bad for a coin, but at the same time i think people need to get something out of it (if they innovate) in order to motivate them to innovate

Not trying to be rude.  But I think a lot of people are already thinking it but no one is saying it.  It does not sound like you're a good candidate to be launching a coin.





You're trying to launch a coin for all the wrong reasons.  Polluting the alt-coin world with another coin so you can solve your own financial woes through a get-rich-quick scheme certainly isn't the right path here.  Altruism is important for people to trust the developer's motives.  Altruism is not communism as you suggested earlier in the thread.

If you are indeed a successful investor, why are you in the financial predicament you're in?  Are you working a 9 to 5 bank job, or are you not working a regular job?  There's no faster way to financial doom than to follow the advice of a broke investor.

I agree with you that there will be 100's of new coins.  But people have this tunnel vision that all coins will have to be like Bitcoin.

I think it will be the other way around, not all coins will be like Bitcoin and Litecoin.  In fact, we will see coins were mining is just not available to the public.  We've seen the first of that come out in Tradecoin.   ZenithCoin is like previous coins with a percentage allocation.   I am betting that in the long term, coins with an incentive for developers will eventually win out over pump and dump coins.


You are an economist, and clearly you see the lack of incentive for most developers to maintain a coin.   

Anyway if you are interested in creating a coin,   I can do that for you.  But first you need a good idea.

Nice case... what is it made of?

25% of minted coins allocated towards the devs is absurd.  I was thinking 1 to 5% at most.  I'd actually feel more secure knowing devs were devoting 100% of their time working on the coin, instead of trying to fit in the time around their day job.  Personally, I find it a bit worrying when LTC devs need to post fund raiser thread on this forum.  But hey, that's just me...

Yeah, I can't believe the guy made that.  He must be an engineer.  I've just never seen anything that nice and professional as far as GPU miners.  And for only $18,000, he must have gotten some deals cause I figured minimum $25,000.

He should get all his money back in probably 6-9 months off LTC Coins.  That's the best investment there is.  Well, ASIC machines are better but it may be Christmas before I get mine and by then who knows what's gonna happen to bitcoin and without bitcoin those ASICS are worthless.

How can they devote 100% of their time to a coin on 5%?  Most of these guys are educated making at least $70,000 per year.  At 25% it may be worth it but at 5%, no way.

That's what I was trying to say.  If devs get paid right they're more likely to promote the coin more then miners will come out ahead.

But then again, if dev team is open and it keeps growing with skilled people, then this works as well.  Hence peer to peer on all facets. 

My thoughts exactly.  Obviously if the dev is a scammer he's not gonna grow the talent so that's when you abandon his coin but if he shows real effort in growing that coin then they deserve the 25%. That's not a lot of money unless the coin actually takes off. That's why most of these guys have full-time job.

If I get a job back at a major bank I can't quit that kind of money for a piddly coin which pays me $500 per month. That's what 5% would probably equate to for most of these coins.  And that's if they dump all their coins. 

If I had my own coin I wouldn't want to do that, I'd want to keep a big portion for the future.

Can somebody tell me what I expect to pay a guy like hazard for prepping a coin for launch, for me?  I know nothing about programming. TIA.

My thoughts exactly.  If there's a real inventive we'll start seeing real teams of developers come on board.

This is what I think a bitcoin ETF will do.  Much more but this will be one huge positive. It will bring in a different class of developers.  Super devs.  Then you're gonna see crazy good innovation and those guys will demand huge % and they'll deserve it.

Usually Hazard will launch new coins just for the fun of it, for the purpose of showing how absurd it is that people try to launch coins for no legitimate reason and try to manufacture new wealth out of thin air.  I think a lot of us are trying to figure out the opposite problem, what do we need to pay Hazard to stop launching new shitcoins.

If you're launching a coin just because you see it as a get-rich-quick scheme and because you have financial problems (broke investor syndrome?), then just stop right now.  And come back when you have a legitimate reason for launching a new coin that isn't centered around remorse that you were late to the launch of earlier coins or that you need money.

People get poor for various reasons.  Among them is family issues and hospital bills, among others.  

I'm not working at this moment (not a regular bank job anyway) but that can change in 24 hours in which case I would have to pull 16 hour shifts to make this work.

And trying to launch a pure charity coin is hardly trying to get rich.  I wouldn't be making anything off the orphanCoin.

And if I launch my own coin it would be done right and it wouldn't be anymore pollution than already exists.  At least the orphanCoin has a altruistic purpose.

And what is the reason to launch a coin if its not to make money.  You think all these coins being launched are for some unselfish, community loving reason. Hahahahaaa, let's get real man.  The number 1 reason anyone has launched a coin is to try their luck and hopefully make lots of money.  That's it.

Any other reason is secondary.  At least with the orphanCoin, my primary reason (with just this coin) is 100% charity.  If it doesn't work I don't care since it's not my personal coin. And if it works then that would be an amazing thing for a lot of people.

But since I have nothing to gain (financially) from orphanCoin I wanted to know how much it would cost me to get it launched, since I cannot afford to throw money around play pretend philanthropist until I do get a regular bank job back.

And if hazard has launched new coins for free for fun, I'm sure I can work out a deal with him to at least launch a charity coin. There's no such thing out there.  Just a pure charity coin with all the money going to orphanages.  I'm sure there's an easy way to prove where the money goes.

And if that works out then I'll get the money to launch my own coin right.

Just a few questions because you're really bouncing around with your philosophy's. 

First off, how will you get the money to launch your own coin, off a coin that you deem to have 100% of profits going to charity???  Are you the charity the money will be going towards? 

Second.  Even if someone launches a coin for you, how are you going to take care of it with no programming skills/background.  How do you think you will gain people's trust in a coin that can easily be 51% attacked, because even if it did take off, people will know if they attack your coin, you will post an ad on here offering $30/hour to help you stop the attack.  That and the fact there should be constant watching / innovation going on.  How will you put in check points?  or anything else that you need to do as a coin dev?    Personally I hope you have luck trying, but I really think you should take the advice of others, and try to partner up with someone that has their own coin, but needs assistance getting it somewhere, or partner with a programmer and together launch a coin under the name of your choosing. 

There is to much to take care of if you really want to be a developer of a coin that will rise above the thousands of other coins out there, and I think you're getting in over your head especially with your goals. Slow down, don't expect to become the next Jobs or Gates.  Because they both have/had something you don't.  And thats a total understanding of their product. Plus it took not 1 but 2 Steve's to get Apple where it is today. 

I totally agree with and the only reason I'm rushing is because once Bitcoin gets an ETF there's going to be a mad rush for alt coins.

So if I wait 6 months then it may be too late.

The charity coin, no, all the coins would go to orphanages.  I'm sure there's a way to check to see who got the coins.  I don't own an orphanage nor am I associated with one.

My own coin, that's a different story.  Yes, I see what you mean but if I don't have programming talent what am I gonna offer another dev?

I'm gonna at least give the charity coin a shot depending how much it costs for me to get it launched.  And depending on how that goes I'll maybe launch my own coin.

I'm educated and an economist - I shouldn't have to be a programmer to launch a coin.  Jobs wasn't an engineer he was a salesman. And I don't think I'm a jobs or a gates, I simply used them to prove a point.

What I am is:  on time.  These things where you can start something revolutionary for little money is once ina lifetime. I'm dead serious about this and what I can offer compared to other devs is 100% transperancy.

Read my posts , I'm not hiding anything.  I'll even post my real name and address if anyone wants to see what kind of a person I am.

Well, I have small kids, no address but I'll give out my city and I can't meet up any locals at say, Starbucks.  How many devs offer that?  This is not a get rich thing for me as I can make way more money at a regular job, but I Believe so much in the future of alt coins that I want to be a part of it - do some good and maybe, maybe if it takes off then I can make some money.  But I'm a realist, I've made and lost lots of money on stocks and I know a long shot when I see one.

And I'm not bouncing around with my philosophy.

I'm talking about 2 different coins.  A pure charity coin: OrphanCoin, and then my coin, maybe CatholicCoin.

My personal coin I will spend time and money to develop while the charity coin I'll let destiny make it or break it, I have nothing to gain from an OrphanCoin and the only loss to me is the cost to launch it.

I'll leave orphan coin's success up to the community and God.

Funny, I wish I had that much faith in God for my own personal CatholicCoin.  With my luck it would be ironic for the one I don't back up and don't work on to succeed and the one I put money and effort behind to fail miserably.  That's kind of how life works in my world.  

And let me clarify what broke is to me cause some make it sound like I need a coin to eat.  Lol.

I pay $3785 per month for the house I live in.  

There's 4 people Living here and I spend roughly $1,200 per month on food.

My car payment is nearly $600 per month.

My older son goes to private school, although he's on vacation now.

I'm broke cause I'm not making the money I was making but I'm living at the same standard.  Normally, paying to launch such a coin would be trivial but now, it feels irresponsible given i have little kids to take care of.

But I also recognize a great opportunity when I see one although this is high risk and it may fail miserably, I'm blown away by the potential of alt coins.  So depending on the upfront launch costs I want to at least launch a pure charity coin.  

And depending how much it costs to launch a real coin with some new features and done right, I may launch one or maybe not.  It all depends on the cost.  Right now I have time to actually put into such a launch but I can't be careless with the money I have left and if I don't find a job I'll lose my house.

So no, I don't need anything from these coins to live my life and live nicely.  These coins, should I launch any, will be a long term thing for me with potential profits far down the line and hopefully, some money for various charities, third party orphanages and the CatholicChurch.  My dad was an orphan who ended up being raised by gypsies in Transylvania.  I'm not kidding whatsoever.  I've just always wanted to help orphanages but I never had time and frankly, I was too selfish.  

This is an easy way to try something that may end up actually working and doing a lot of good and if it doesn't work, then I'll just lose a few bucks and some time.  I can live with that, but one thing I'm sick of is regrets so I definitely wanna try this if the costs are reasonable.

And please don't start with the catholic thing again.  Miners mine coins and nobody gets anything from them. At least I'm trying to do something good while at the same time doing something for myself and my family.

As a developer i released FRK into the wild and mined/bought what i currently own.

I'm still waiting for my mining gear to get here and it could be until Christmas.

I'm not gonna spend money to launch a coin, then full-time work and more money to support it and then the only thing I get is what I get from spending more cash to buy it. That's like telling steve Jobs to buy shares off the market if he wants shares.  That's absurd.

The charity coin I will not pay myself even 1%.  I believe if something is done for charity it should be done so 100%, all the way.

And that's the reason for a second coin, that would be in part for profit and in part for charity and that coin I would pay myself and other developers a % from the mined coins.  No premine as that's a sure way for a pump and dump scheme.  

And anybody who thinks that's a lot of money, until a coin takes off its practically worthless and if a coin takes off its most likely due on large part to the efforts and spending of the founders/developers so let them make their money if they earned it.

Sorry, I meant the philosophy of your charity coin being 100% for charity, while on the other hand it looked a lot like you were thinking about taking profits from the charity coin to help fund your other coin. 

2 words of advice for you. 

Don't name any coin catholic coin, or any other religion.  There are many people here who attack and kill coins just to "watch the world burn".  I wouldn't paint a target on my back for an attack, as I am sure they aren't the type to be hanging in church after they crush their latest coin. 

And second.  With ASIC's around, it is very dangerous to launch a new SHA-256 coin, as the ability for it to be attacked with an ASIC is pretty high.  And since the majority of the clone coins are Scrypt based, you won't be able to mine your own coin with your BFL ASIC miner.  I guess you could mine Bitcoins, and use them to purchase your coins.

Thanks for the advice.  No, I will do a dual launch to show people I'm not using a charity coin to help myself.

The shaw256, I really want that cause I want people to mergemine these coins along with Bitcoin. I think that's the best idea. 

Besides isn't there something now called proof of stake or something which prevents a 51% attack or at least helps?

Finally, I promise 100% transparency and I'm gonna give it. I'm not gonna give a 12 hour or 24 hour heads up. My guess people give such little warning cause they're afraid if groups forming to do 51% attacks.

I'm not that guy.  If this fails then so be it, this isn't afraid coin.  I will name the coin CatholicCoin cause it is the best name for what I'm trying to portray.   

And I will give this forum at least a 3 day heads up so they can get together and attack if they want.  The community should decide what's good and what should live anyway. 

And I know the odds are greatly against me - the poll showed that some 80% of the people here hated the CatholicCoin.  But I believe it's the right coin for what I'm trying to do so I'm gonna keep it.  Those who wanna hate will hate, those who wanna mine will help out and those who wanna kill the coin will attack it.

So be it, I'm gonna do what I feel is right - I've never done something right when I was led by fear.

But I appreciate your advice, it's good advice.

Lol, is Catholic Coin your charity coin?  Or your I want to make money coin? 

And it's funny people who have a programming background , with no kids ect don't try to launch 2 coins at the same time because of all the work involved.  Are you really sure you want to develop 2 coins at once?   Your effectively splitting your mining audience which is doubling your chance of a 51% attack.

1 more question.  For your charity coin.  Do 100% of all mined coins go to charity?  Or do 50% go to miners and 50% go to charity?   Or is it 50% to miners, 25% to you, and 25% to charity?

Good questions.

If I don't do them both at once I'll be accused of using a charity coin to launch a profit coin.  I don't want that so I'll work harder to launch them both.  I'm hoping with the charity coin ill get some help, but who knows.

The charity coin: OrphanCoin, I won't get anything, not a single coin.  I think 50% to orphanages and 50% to miners is the most fair way to go.

CatholicCoin would be my coin, where I try to make a profit down the line.  I know, it's a church coin why is it for profit?  Cause its gonna take work and money and besides, any coin I launch I want to give a part to charity so it doesn't really matter.  

But with this coin 30% will go to the Catholic Church, 20% to me and 50% to miners.  I know, that's so much but that's nothing unless the coin makes it and if it does a portion of that will go to other workers, bounties, marketing, admin, general overhead, etc, so the actual profit would be much smaller than the 20%.

And to prove I'm not in this thing for the short term - every single coin in the first 3 months, so 100% of the coins that should be coming to me or charity, will go straight back into the alt coin community via this forum.  I'll give it all away randomly, with no preferences or bias, to anyone posting on these boards, even those who hate these coins will be in on the drawings, lotteries or whatever fair and random way I can come up with to give all these coins away.

So then, the only thing left for me is the long term - if these coins survive, after 90 days I would then start to see something.  But meanwhile I'll be working around the clock for free to support these coins and since there's no coins coming to me I guess I'll have to pay out of pocket for bounties etc unless people wanna pitch in. I don't know how much I can pay out of pocket so I'm not making any exact promises there but I'll do what I can to help these 2 coins develop and grow.

So let me clarify.  For the first 90 days: for both coins:  miners would get 50% and members of this forum would get the entire second half (50%).  Basically anyone who posts on these coins' threads would be eligible for any and all the payouts.  There may be some rule made there to prevent spamming just to get your name in the pot.


I don't know, maybe post once per day for a week for every weekly drawing or something like that.  Or maybe we'll do weekly big lotteries and then some daily drawing.  And anybody can choose to kick a % of their winning in a pot for bounties but that's not in any way necessary. I'm just not sure how I'll fund development - I'm not sure how much I can commit out of pocket at this point but the odds of these 2 coins getting killed by an attack is so great that I'll figure something out if they do survive.


The rationale is this: I'm not gonna call the Catholic Church or an orphanage and offer them coins when I don't know if these coins will be dead next week.  That's humiliating.  I figure if they survive 3 months then I can call around and not be so embarrassed or worried about an imminent 51% attack.

A couple of more things.

Your jobless and semi broke.  You have 2 small children, and can't afford to put much money into the development of your coin.  You aren't a programmer, and your trying to launch 2 clone coins at once.  You don't have plans unless by some miracle your coins are still standing 3 months later, your going to take half the profits from the miners, and you think somehow your coins are going to outperform the other 99% of the daily alts being released.  And to make matters worse your going to put a target on your coin by giving it a religious title, and you expect someone to set up merged mining for it, possibly for $30/hr??

Do you have many plans on creating stores to buy goods with your coins?  Are you already hitting up big businesses to see if they will accept Catholic Coin as a method of payment?  I still say you should have gone with "Itchy and Scratchy Coins".  "It's like money, but more fun".

Take the spare time you have, spend it with your kids.  All your going to end up doing is using up all your time, and losing everything your pouring into this venture. 


1 thing you might have going for your coin.  I can see the ads now.  "For the naughty catholic girl in you, Sextoys.com now accepting Catholic Coins, 30% of the proceeds going back to the Catholic Church"

Lol, ok, the last part got me laughing.

You're being too pessimistic.  Look around, show me a coin launched in the last 3 months who did the things you're expecting me to do.  None have. It's a work in progress.  If people had that kind of money to get that much done in such a short amount of time they'd probably be starting a bigger business not risking it on these alt coins.

I will definitely give it serious thought - I have plenty of time to spend with my kids right now - my worry is that if I start a new job I will be literally working 16 hour days for months to come and that would become a problem.

But at the same time I don't like being led by fear and the unknown of what might be.  

And you say I'm gonna take half the profits after 3 months, you're sounding biased.  It's ZERO% for one coin and 20% for the other coin and that's after supporting both coins with both, time and money for the previous 3 months.  I hardly see that as excessive.

If anyone thinks that's too much I'll point you to coins treading on exchanges which give miners way less of the coins/profits and have not nearly the kind of charity work and transperancy I'm offering.  If that means nothing then the alt community deserves more pump and dump schemes and coins which only serve to enrich one person and care nothing about anybody else.  

The way I see it, I'm very much the opposite from most developers and seeing how most here don't trust any developers that tells me that's a good thing.  Sounds like a lot of scsmmers have come though which is probably why everyone is so negative and quick to flame-on, and blow people up around here.

I've got to weigh my options cause this would be a huge undertaking time-wise but I should have a decision made soon.  And I'm still checking out total costs cause that may be an issue after a few months.

Vlad, since what you apparently bring to the table is promotion of coins, forget about making more new coins and just put your efforts into promoting existing coins that you already own some of.

If your promoting skills are good you should be able to pretty much buy up a bunch of any coin you can get a good deal on then promote it increasing its value, take profit, then rinse and repeat either with the same coin if it still seems a good deal or with whatever coin next looks underprixed compared to how much your promotion skills can boost it to.

-MarkM-

Interesting mark, I never thought of a promoter as I've always hated sales and been horrible at them.  But I have been told regarding stocks that if I believe in a stock that I could sell anybody on it.  But to me that was never sales - making someone see the truth about how great something is to me is not promoting or sales its Simply the truth and the truth is easy to sell.

I don't think I could pump and dump like that but yeah, there are a few coins I really believe in that I tell people about everywhere I go.  Problem is - right now the masses are skeptical of alt coins cause they either don't get them or they hear about the bad reputation.  

I'll still consider launching my own coin but I've decided to use this feedback as the consensus of the general public and not launch CatholicCoin and not even OrphanCoin although I personally liked both.  I'm gonna wait for a coin to come to me that feels just right in very way.

Until then I'm gonna keep accumulating devcoins and ixCoins.  I think one of those 2 will make it big.  I'm convinced of that.  But people don't believe in small things, they want to buy something that's already up there and there's little money to be made in those coins which have already ran so much.

Thanks for your input, mark.

Quite frankly, you 'could' build in a charge to the transaction fees...but that would be a tax and you're not going to get anywhere with that either. You are asking...other people to effectively mint your coin yet pre-mining to give yourself an extreme advantage over others only to hoard the 'wealth' to cash in much later. This is not how money works and is simply against the whole concept of money. Quite frankly, you shouldn't be doing this for profit anyway. Money is about trust and the moment you start putting profit into the equation, you are going to lose that trust.

The only ones that should earn any money out of a coin are miners. Why? Because they're the ones actually doing the work. It may not seem like it if you have invest a couple hundred bitcoins in marketing and so on, but the fact of the matter is, you didn't need to spend that amount, you could have just launched the coin without much fanfare at all, just a post on a forum such as this one. The miners then have to exert or invest energy and time into making more coins to make it more valuable. If you are hoarding coins, then you are artificially inflating the value of the coin, in order to dump it for a larger payout later.

Money isn't about making profit, it is about exchanging wealth. So instead of buying two oxen for twenty six chickens and a coup...which is a logistical nightmare.... you're simply trading two oxen for 15 ixcoin, which so happens to be exchangeable for twenty six chickens and a coup, which if not immediately available at that market, you can travel to another market and get those chickens with very little added expenditure.

At least that's my two cents.

If you're going to premine, feel free, just be prepared to have to exchange it sharpish to encourage trade.

How is it that the miners are the only ones doing all the work??

The fact that a widely successful litecoin had developers begging for support is an indicator of how broken the incentive structure is.

Imagine if Google has to beg for funds for every piece of work they had to do.

Most of the coins I see here are clones of Bitcoin... unless you've designed it from the ground up, in reality you have done no work. Therefore it's the miners who are mining the coins, confirming the transactions and so on. The 'creator' has done quite literally nothing, except hoping to cash in on a coin that offers nothing new... that's just wrong.

Litecoin is a bit different on the other hand, if they have developers working on it to make it different from Bitcoin, then good for them, they can feel free to ask for donations or use whatever charging system they want. However the market...as we see here... won't bear anyone trying to do pump and dump schemes. There shouldn't 'be' an incentive to create a currency. The currency should be 'needed' to fit a market in order to better facilitate trade (one of the reasons why Bitcoin has took off so well). Each incentive offered will devalue the currency because it then means that those who are genuinely interested in the currency won't be able to take part because they don't have super computers, therein destroying the 'decentralized' nature of a coin. (This also applies to Bitcoin). Most people don't 'have' huge computers with six graphic cards, asics, and so on and so forth so there's no real prospect of them getting involved with mining. This is one of the things that has excluded me from Bitcoin as there's no way for me to get involved.

Google offered its search engine for free. It still IS free. Google also offer another service called 'advertising', which businesses then pay for. Thereby a symbiotic relationship where one activity provides for the other. This goes back to my earlier point about not actually doing anything. Google on the other hand designed their code from the ground up. If a new currency creator did the same, then sure, they could try to find a way to monetize on that, but monetizing directly through premining, effectively ruins the whole point of getting a currency out there. Of course, you could easily just apply a merchants 'tax'...but again with that decentralized theme... the more decentralized a currency, the less profit you will be able to make because the less work you are doing.

But miners aren't exactly breaking their backs out there, doing "all the work."

And they're mining in their self interest and most have their hardware paid off in the first few months.  They leave it on and go about their lives.  The electricity is paid for in the equation..

You make it sound like miners are coal mining.  Lol

Fact is, if not for developers, miners wouldn't have such opportunities and if you want newer and better coins to come out then there must be some good incentive, and it seems like some people are communistic about this, they think devs shouldn't get anything.

Let's get real.  Let's be fair.

thats total BS.  The creator of Bitcoin pre-mined a ton.  Also a little bird told me GPU mining on Litecoin was available to a select few very early on.

The whiners expect a dev to release a coin, then support it, and get nothing out of it.  Any dev that doesn't pre-mine at leave 1/10th of a percent is an idiot IMHO.

Support? Nah. I expect it to be decentralized and released open source. Although I probably should look into the cost of money, much like the cost of politics, no one really thinks about it as an object but more an idea. But I don't think that devs or anyone else for that matter should be able to make money out of money. There's no point in that.

I don't think that Dev's should be paid simply for outlining the basis of money, especially when most alt-coins are simply bitcoin clones. If they wish it, they could charge for the distribution of the client, which protects their software...or lines of code they have written. Provided it's something new and not just a rehash of other peoples hard work.

Amin, brother.  That's what I'm saying.  Too much hating going on toward the devs.  These devs provide coins for people so they can make money while at the beach.  That's the reward for miners so where's the reward for devs wince they're doing all the work?

Without the devs these coins die.  Where do you think bounties come from?  Who's gonna work for free to support and improve a coin? 

Lie all you want but the blockchain doesn't lie.  There was no premine in Bitcoin.  Satoshi published the paper nearly a year before the client.  The Genesis block (block 0) was worth 50 BTC but due to a bug in the mainline client it is unspendable.  Bitcoin remained at difficulty 1 (only because it can't go any lower) for the first year due to lack of interest.  Anyone with just about any computer could have mined 5%+ or the available coins in the first year just by running the client ... almost nobody did.

So where is this so called "premine"?

In the only two successful coins (BTC & LTC) to date bounties have come from users, miners, coinholders.  Someone wants X done but they lack the skills for X.  They find out a lot of other people wants X done as well.  They pool resources and offer a bounty for someone to complete X.

As I said, release it open source. If a coin dies, then it means it wasn't worth it anyway. If someone wants to see something succeed then they'll put all the hard work and graft into it. If they want any returns on it, then they'll need to think about how they're going to get paid for it before hand. I.e selling clients or mining software just for instance. The way that most alt-coins gather theirs by pre-mining, just stinks of a scam.

Seriously?  That's amazing.  I really had no idea.  If that's the case then why don't the people launch a coin for the people. 

I mean a miner coin. A coin that benefits the small miners the most and not the guys with $50,000 rigs. 

I have an idea for a feature for a coin that would really help the little guy - level the playing field a bit.  Cause most miners are little guys.

And if you all can take care of your own coin I'll just pay for it and launch it for you and that's fine, I'll take just 1%.

1/40 of the total money you know on 99.9% country (yes not Vatican  :D) with that share of fiat you would be the richest of the country. if that was bitcoin it would be 35M$ value. most coin are copy paste 60-90% of scrypt coin had to realease a patch since they not even know enough to change the alert signature of litecoin so thay get alerts for litecoin client update in their coin client, so they do replace litecoin by XXcoin and change seeds 2-3 parameter then go.

25% are you kidding  especially premine is at start so only devs have coin on starting hype in trades.

But let be realistic, the current trend is i setup a coins in 2 weeks work(1 person) get 100K$ back in next 2 weeks by premine-instamine. wow that is a hell of high pay. that is one of the major point that is making lots of bad rep to alt coin at the moment. the current formulas they use is just give me your money especially when you see some dev are not even very active after launch.


yes dev should possibly get some rewards,  Add some value to the coins as service, exchange, excrow, market and then collect from those. can even be google ads on the sites.

emuni, primecoin and some other innovate and should get rewards, copy paste need to add something to get reward.

I'm totally against premine or instamine.  I said the only fair way is to pay a % of mined coins.  I said 25% cause I thought it was really expensive to launch a coin, over $10,000 but its not nearly that high.

And nobody has ever made $100,000 weeks after a launch.  It's not possible.  Maybe months and only in rare cases.

But I agree, premining is a clear pump and dump scheme.

I'm gonna do a poll to see how many people want a mining coin:  a coin for the miners, skewed to benefit the smaller miners the most, on a % basis.

If you're interested in putting together a coin that means everyone can have a share of the pie including the small miners, count me in. My problem with most of the current ones is that I simply just can't take part. My computer isn't powerful enough for the majority of these currencies and bitcoin is just impossible.

1% of what by the way? If I'm able to mine, I'd have no problem contributing some of what I've mined to the pot, that's not exactly an unreasonable request from my perspective.

Lets just bear in mind that my computer is a what...i4 equivalent processor *cough*ireallyneedtoupdatemymotherboard*cough* but I'd be happy ^_^;

Maybe you aren't getting (like take a step back and look at the big picture) on the purpose of a crypto-currency.  The purpose of a currency is to facilitate trade without the need for the a trusted third party.

Mining is how the network achieves consensus and yes miners are "paid" for the service they provide.  Since the network is a real cost and a new currency needs some for of initial distribution it makes sense to kill two birds with one stone.  The protocol gives miners a subsidy (in the form of new coins) and that also achieves the initial controlled distribution.

However the point of mining is to secure the network. That is what miners are being paid for.  Without security it doesn't matter how many trillions of coins you have they are worthless.   

The coin I have in mind would help guys just like you.  I can't target just low hash-rate computers but I think my idea would at least give solo miners and the little guy a fighting chance.  An edge.  Not a huge advantage but an edge you currently don't have with any coin out there.  And it would also make mining more fun.

1% of mined coins.  You don't have to personally pitch in anything.

I'm sorry...could you explain this to a newb such as myself? How do the miners provide security?

I'm only saying I'd like to give the small miners a bit of an edge and make mining more exciting.

Then large miners will simply appear on the network as multiple "small" miners are you are back where you started.

It wouldn't make any difference because the reward is in the relative nature if the overall results a miner gets and not anything to do with their equipment or network.  It's a reward feature and the less you earn mining the more rewarded you'll feel by this feature.

I don't wanna give it away cause I think it's a great idea but trust me, it would be fair to big miners and a bit more than fair to the small miners but the big miners would get the same exact rewards as the small miners.  A win-win for everyone.

Just click the link, bro, the article has 500+ words explaining it:
http://ecoinomist.com/weather-proof-gpu-litecoin-mining-rig-pictures

Nope, I'm just a web designer, frontend developer (HTML/CSS) and online marketer ;)
I get wholesale prices from the biggest computer part supplier in the country.


FTC dev could have possibly achieved just that.

@Vlad, to be honest, you sound like a total newbie to this crypto game to me, even though I have only been in the game roughly the same amount of time as you.

I don't think you should ever try to launch a coin anyway, it will be DOA, 99% guaranteed ;)

Why? Because you have nothing to add value to the project.
- you can't code
- you can't promote
- you can't design (I assume)
- you can't pay

=> So what have you got to offer?

Fresh ideas.

New perspective cause I an
a newbie and an Econimist and not a programmer.

Total honesty with self imposed checks and balances.

And I can pay. I didn't think I could yesterday cause I thought it was $10,000 to just launch a coin.  Now that I know the cost is way less this is almost comical.

Hence, I'm the only guy offering at least a 3 day heads up and ASIC merge mining so people can mobilize and kill any coin I put out of its trash.  This is what a real fair launch is - let the community and mining market decide what's trash and what should die, no more sneak launches.


Who has been that honest? Who has put that power in the hands of the people?

my question was about execution, not ideas - the multipliers.

You can be a great multiplier, but hey, 9999999999(multiplier) * 0(execution) = 0

Power in the hands of the people?

...great. That's me dead then :D

No.  The majority of the miners have small rigs and they just can't catch a break.  The people's will is usually the best way to go but if you're a dev your main concern isn't the miners but rather how can you keep your coin from getting killed and then you actually take steps which go against the power of the miners since it is the miners that can kill your coin.

I'm doing the opposite - I'm runnin' and gunnin' straight for the miners and if they love this coin then they'll adopt it and it will thrive and if it sucks then I'm giving enough heads up time and making it SHAW256 where they can easily kill it.

What's more democratic than that?

Would someone like to explain this 51% attack to me? I feel like I'm missing something rather important.

That said, on the face of it, nothing looks more democratic. Though with enough determination and will power behind something then it will succeed even in the face of public opinion. It just takes time. There are a lot of people against bitcoins, litecoins and other such currencies, yet it hasn't stopped them from excelling.

Bingo!

That's why I'm not afraid of failing and I invite a 51% attack.  Given it doesn't cost that much to launch a coin a fair launch should be fair for the community not the developers. 

And what better way to know a coin is wanted and will potentially succeed than to invite hackers and miners to kill it?  If it has merit then you'll quickly find out.

If it's another CrapCoin then it should be killed.

And the fear of an attack should make a coin better but instead devs do sneak launches and scrypt coins so they get rid of the democratic process.

A computer guy can explain a 51% attack better.  But, If you want fundamental analysis of a real asset I can help.  lol

Are you sure? Several million feathercoins and chinacoins were mined within first 24 hours. Developers made several hundred thousand coins for sure. Those were traded somewhere 0,005 at their peak, so easy 100k for devs, who did nothing but copy litecoins code. After those we had shitload of different pump and dumps, all based on existing code.

In some cases developers didn't even change coins name in the client and we saw something like "shitcoin" [SHC], but when you downloaded a client it said 0.00 LTC. That's how much developers put effort in these coins.

And usually when there is premine/instamine, it's insane like 560k out of 21M. That's something like 220 Billion in us dollars (2,6% of M2 money supply).

Ouch. Is basically all I have to say to that deac. It's one of the reasons why I won't touch a coin that has pre-mine. The only reason I installed Bitcoin and Litecoin is because they're pretty much established. I also agree that people should at least put a little effort into their work even it is just changing the names. That's the least amount of work they could do.

That said it's really hard to find a really alternative currency. I'm certainly happy to look into genuine alternative currencies. At the moment, this looks like the idea behind it will be significantly different from most others which is why I'm still here. Unlike primecoin...which is going to fail because it's just PPCoin and I don't like the look of that either.

Lol, developers don't do sneak launches because they are worried about a 51% attack.  And they don't use Scrypt to stop the democratic process????  WTH.  It's scary when a "Developer" doesn't even have the basics down.

Anyways to explain the 51% attack to the other guy who asked, in newbie speak, since I am a newbie as well, and not someone that could actually pull off an attack.  With a PoW (Proof of Work) currency, Your network is running on a democratic system, where if someone tries to attack the coin (By changing the Blockchain allowing them to double spend coins ect), the network looks at the 2 different Blockchains, and awards the chain with the majority of the Work being completed on it as the correct one, and all the other computers in the network will then adopt that Blockchain as the real one.

SHA256d, Scrypt, SHA3, Finding prime numbers.  All that doesn't really matter to the "Security" of the Blockchain.  The Blockchain isn't actually super-encrypted, it is open for everyone to view it at will.  What all the computers on the network (mining) for your coin are doing is proving they are completing work, as a way to give themselves a small % of the total amount of voting shares for which chain is the correct one.

When a network has a small amount of miners, (you can see many with around 1 Mhash/s), all it would take is for 1 person with 1.1 MHash/s to start mining, and by all rights, they can start selling their coins (get the money), put them back in their wallet, spend them again, and again and again.  Once this happens, the coin is pretty much worthless, and it falls to obscurity.  With a larger coin with say 200 MHash/s on the network.  They would need the processing power to put another 204 MHash/s on the network to attack it.  But what they will usually do is look for weaknesses like a certain pool has 50% of the hashing power, or 2-3 large pools, and DDOS attack the pools effectively shutting them down for a period of time.  During that time the network may be floating around the 40-50 MHash/s rate, thus it would be possible for them to attack the coin if they had the hashing power.

This is where some people believe Scrypt networks are more secure, as the price of creating a GPU farm with 50 MHash/s is more expensive than buying a few ASIC miners and having alot of power to throw around.  As more ASIC's are being shipped out to people all over the network, this problem will dissipate.  Not saying anyone could easily afford to take down Bitcoin.  But if you had your new coin launched, on SHA256 and the network was being mined at even 100 G Hash/s, it really wouldn't take much at all to find someone that has the power to knock your coin out.

What a PoS / PoW currency does (Like PPCoin, NovaCoin, Bottlecaps) does is not only does it look to see if the attacker has 51% of all the work being completed on the network.  It also checks to see if the attacker owns 51% of all the coin days on the network.  This vastly makes it more expensive to attack, and would be financial suicide, as they would never be able to sell off all the coins they owned in the currency during the attack.  So they would effectively lose money attacking it.  With a strict PoW system, if they destroy it, they still have all their original equipment, and can go destroy the next coin they feel like, or go back to mining their favorites again.

The greatest thing about a PoS currency, is after the PoW is at the end of it's lifecycle, the network can be switched over to a total PoS security.  The amount of electricity being consumed to keep the network secure drops to almost nothing, as all it is looking for is 51% ownership of all the coindays on the network to provide the security