Fair Profit for Coin Founders

[WindMaster]

Can somebody tell me what I expect to pay a guy like hazard for prepping a coin for launch, for me?  I know nothing about programming. TIA.

Usually Hazard will launch new coins just for the fun of it, for the purpose of showing how absurd it is that people try to launch coins for no legitimate reason and try to manufacture new wealth out of thin air.  I think a lot of us are trying to figure out the opposite problem, what do we need to pay Hazard to stop launching new shitcoins.

If you're launching a coin just because you see it as a get-rich-quick scheme and because you have financial problems (broke investor syndrome?), then just stop right now.  And come back when you have a legitimate reason for launching a new coin that isn't centered around remorse that you were late to the launch of earlier coins or that you need money.

[Vlad2Vlad]

If you are indeed a successful investor, why are you in the financial predicament you're in?  Are you working a 9 to 5 bank job, or are you not working a regular job?  There's no faster way to financial doom than to follow the advice of a broke investor.

People get poor for various reasons.  Among them is family issues and hospital bills, among others.  

I'm not working at this moment (not a regular bank job anyway) but that can change in 24 hours in which case I would have to pull 16 hour shifts to make this work.

And trying to launch a pure charity coin is hardly trying to get rich.  I wouldn't be making anything off the orphanCoin.

And if I launch my own coin it would be done right and it wouldn't be anymore pollution than already exists.  At least the orphanCoin has a altruistic purpose.

And what is the reason to launch a coin if its not to make money.  You think all these coins being launched are for some unselfish, community loving reason. Hahahahaaa, let's get real man.  The number 1 reason anyone has launched a coin is to try their luck and hopefully make lots of money.  That's it.

Any other reason is secondary.  At least with the orphanCoin, my primary reason (with just this coin) is 100% charity.  If it doesn't work I don't care since it's not my personal coin. And if it works then that would be an amazing thing for a lot of people.

But since I have nothing to gain (financially) from orphanCoin I wanted to know how much it would cost me to get it launched, since I cannot afford to throw money around play pretend philanthropist until I do get a regular bank job back.

[Vlad2Vlad]

And if hazard has launched new coins for free for fun, I'm sure I can work out a deal with him to at least launch a charity coin. There's no such thing out there.  Just a pure charity coin with all the money going to orphanages.  I'm sure there's an easy way to prove where the money goes.

And if that works out then I'll get the money to launch my own coin right.

[Vivisector999]

Just a few questions because you're really bouncing around with your philosophy's. 

First off, how will you get the money to launch your own coin, off a coin that you deem to have 100% of profits going to charity???  Are you the charity the money will be going towards? 

Second.  Even if someone launches a coin for you, how are you going to take care of it with no programming skills/background.  How do you think you will gain people's trust in a coin that can easily be 51% attacked, because even if it did take off, people will know if they attack your coin, you will post an ad on here offering $30/hour to help you stop the attack.  That and the fact there should be constant watching / innovation going on.  How will you put in check points?  or anything else that you need to do as a coin dev?    Personally I hope you have luck trying, but I really think you should take the advice of others, and try to partner up with someone that has their own coin, but needs assistance getting it somewhere, or partner with a programmer and together launch a coin under the name of your choosing. 

There is to much to take care of if you really want to be a developer of a coin that will rise above the thousands of other coins out there, and I think you're getting in over your head especially with your goals. Slow down, don't expect to become the next Jobs or Gates.  Because they both have/had something you don't.  And thats a total understanding of their product. Plus it took not 1 but 2 Steve's to get Apple where it is today. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

Just a few questions because you're really bouncing around with your philosophy's.  

First off, how will you get the money to launch your own coin, off a coin that you deem to have 100% of profits going to charity???  Are you the charity the money will be going towards?  

Second.  Even if someone launches a coin for you, how are you going to take care of it with no programming skills/background.  How do you think you will gain people's trust in a coin that can easily be 51% attacked, because even if it did take off, people will know if they attack your coin, you will post an ad on here offering $30/hour to help you stop the attack.  That and the fact there should be constant watching / innovation going on.  How will you put in check points?  or anything else that you need to do as a coin dev?    Personally I hope you have luck trying, but I really think you should take the advice of others, and try to partner up with someone that has their own coin, but needs assistance getting it somewhere, or partner with a programmer and together launch a coin under the name of your choosing.  

There is to much to take care of if you really want to be a developer of a coin that will rise above the thousands of other coins out there, and I think you're getting in over your head especially with your goals. Slow down, don't expect to become the next Jobs or Gates.  Because they both have/had something you don't.  And thats a total understanding of their product. Plus it took not 1 but 2 Steve's to get Apple where it is today.  

I totally agree with and the only reason I'm rushing is because once Bitcoin gets an ETF there's going to be a mad rush for alt coins.

So if I wait 6 months then it may be too late.

The charity coin, no, all the coins would go to orphanages.  I'm sure there's a way to check to see who got the coins.  I don't own an orphanage nor am I associated with one.

My own coin, that's a different story.  Yes, I see what you mean but if I don't have programming talent what am I gonna offer another dev?

I'm gonna at least give the charity coin a shot depending how much it costs for me to get it launched.  And depending on how that goes I'll maybe launch my own coin.

I'm educated and an economist - I shouldn't have to be a programmer to launch a coin.  Jobs wasn't an engineer he was a salesman. And I don't think I'm a jobs or a gates, I simply used them to prove a point.

What I am is:  on time.  These things where you can start something revolutionary for little money is once ina lifetime. I'm dead serious about this and what I can offer compared to other devs is 100% transperancy.

Read my posts , I'm not hiding anything.  I'll even post my real name and address if anyone wants to see what kind of a person I am.

Well, I have small kids, no address but I'll give out my city and I can't meet up any locals at say, Starbucks.  How many devs offer that?  This is not a get rich thing for me as I can make way more money at a regular job, but I Believe so much in the future of alt coins that I want to be a part of it - do some good and maybe, maybe if it takes off then I can make some money.  But I'm a realist, I've made and lost lots of money on stocks and I know a long shot when I see one.

[Vlad2Vlad]

And I'm not bouncing around with my philosophy.

I'm talking about 2 different coins.  A pure charity coin: OrphanCoin, and then my coin, maybe CatholicCoin.

My personal coin I will spend time and money to develop while the charity coin I'll let destiny make it or break it, I have nothing to gain from an OrphanCoin and the only loss to me is the cost to launch it.

I'll leave orphan coin's success up to the community and God.

Funny, I wish I had that much faith in God for my own personal CatholicCoin.  With my luck it would be ironic for the one I don't back up and don't work on to succeed and the one I put money and effort behind to fail miserably.  That's kind of how life works in my world.  

[Vlad2Vlad]

And let me clarify what broke is to me cause some make it sound like I need a coin to eat.  Lol.

I pay $3785 per month for the house I live in.  

There's 4 people Living here and I spend roughly $1,200 per month on food.

My car payment is nearly $600 per month.

My older son goes to private school, although he's on vacation now.

I'm broke cause I'm not making the money I was making but I'm living at the same standard.  Normally, paying to launch such a coin would be trivial but now, it feels irresponsible given i have little kids to take care of.

But I also recognize a great opportunity when I see one although this is high risk and it may fail miserably, I'm blown away by the potential of alt coins.  So depending on the upfront launch costs I want to at least launch a pure charity coin.  

And depending how much it costs to launch a real coin with some new features and done right, I may launch one or maybe not.  It all depends on the cost.  Right now I have time to actually put into such a launch but I can't be careless with the money I have left and if I don't find a job I'll lose my house.

So no, I don't need anything from these coins to live my life and live nicely.  These coins, should I launch any, will be a long term thing for me with potential profits far down the line and hopefully, some money for various charities, third party orphanages and the CatholicChurch.  My dad was an orphan who ended up being raised by gypsies in Transylvania.  I'm not kidding whatsoever.  I've just always wanted to help orphanages but I never had time and frankly, I was too selfish.  

This is an easy way to try something that may end up actually working and doing a lot of good and if it doesn't work, then I'll just lose a few bucks and some time.  I can live with that, but one thing I'm sick of is regrets so I definitely wanna try this if the costs are reasonable.

And please don't start with the catholic thing again.  Miners mine coins and nobody gets anything from them. At least I'm trying to do something good while at the same time doing something for myself and my family.

[defaced]

As a developer i released FRK into the wild and mined/bought what i currently own.

[Vlad2Vlad]

As a developer i released FRK into the wild and mined/bought what i currently own.

I'm still waiting for my mining gear to get here and it could be until Christmas.

I'm not gonna spend money to launch a coin, then full-time work and more money to support it and then the only thing I get is what I get from spending more cash to buy it. That's like telling steve Jobs to buy shares off the market if he wants shares.  That's absurd.

The charity coin I will not pay myself even 1%.  I believe if something is done for charity it should be done so 100%, all the way.

And that's the reason for a second coin, that would be in part for profit and in part for charity and that coin I would pay myself and other developers a % from the mined coins.  No premine as that's a sure way for a pump and dump scheme.  

And anybody who thinks that's a lot of money, until a coin takes off its practically worthless and if a coin takes off its most likely due on large part to the efforts and spending of the founders/developers so let them make their money if they earned it.

[Vivisector999]

Sorry, I meant the philosophy of your charity coin being 100% for charity, while on the other hand it looked a lot like you were thinking about taking profits from the charity coin to help fund your other coin. 

2 words of advice for you. 

Don't name any coin catholic coin, or any other religion.  There are many people here who attack and kill coins just to "watch the world burn".  I wouldn't paint a target on my back for an attack, as I am sure they aren't the type to be hanging in church after they crush their latest coin. 

And second.  With ASIC's around, it is very dangerous to launch a new SHA-256 coin, as the ability for it to be attacked with an ASIC is pretty high.  And since the majority of the clone coins are Scrypt based, you won't be able to mine your own coin with your BFL ASIC miner.  I guess you could mine Bitcoins, and use them to purchase your coins.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Sorry, I meant the philosophy of your charity coin being 100% for charity, while on the other hand it looked a lot like you were thinking about taking profits from the charity coin to help fund your other coin. 

2 words of advice for you. 

Don't name any coin catholic coin, or any other religion.  There are many people here who attack and kill coins just to "watch the world burn".  I wouldn't paint a target on my back for an attack, as I am sure they aren't the type to be hanging in church after they crush their latest coin. 

And second.  With ASIC's around, it is very dangerous to launch a new SHA-256 coin, as the ability for it to be attacked with an ASIC is pretty high.  And since the majority of the clone coins are Scrypt based, you won't be able to mine your own coin with your BFL ASIC miner.  I guess you could mine Bitcoins, and use them to purchase your coins.

Thanks for the advice.  No, I will do a dual launch to show people I'm not using a charity coin to help myself.

The shaw256, I really want that cause I want people to mergemine these coins along with Bitcoin. I think that's the best idea. 

Besides isn't there something now called proof of stake or something which prevents a 51% attack or at least helps?

Finally, I promise 100% transparency and I'm gonna give it. I'm not gonna give a 12 hour or 24 hour heads up. My guess people give such little warning cause they're afraid if groups forming to do 51% attacks.

I'm not that guy.  If this fails then so be it, this isn't afraid coin.  I will name the coin CatholicCoin cause it is the best name for what I'm trying to portray.   

And I will give this forum at least a 3 day heads up so they can get together and attack if they want.  The community should decide what's good and what should live anyway. 

And I know the odds are greatly against me - the poll showed that some 80% of the people here hated the CatholicCoin.  But I believe it's the right coin for what I'm trying to do so I'm gonna keep it.  Those who wanna hate will hate, those who wanna mine will help out and those who wanna kill the coin will attack it.

So be it, I'm gonna do what I feel is right - I've never done something right when I was led by fear.

But I appreciate your advice, it's good advice.

[Vivisector999]

Lol, is Catholic Coin your charity coin?  Or your I want to make money coin? 

And it's funny people who have a programming background , with no kids ect don't try to launch 2 coins at the same time because of all the work involved.  Are you really sure you want to develop 2 coins at once?   Your effectively splitting your mining audience which is doubling your chance of a 51% attack.

1 more question.  For your charity coin.  Do 100% of all mined coins go to charity?  Or do 50% go to miners and 50% go to charity?   Or is it 50% to miners, 25% to you, and 25% to charity?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Lol, is Catholic Coin your charity coin?  Or your I want to make money coin?  

And it's funny people who have a programming background , with no kids ect don't try to launch 2 coins at the same time because of all the work involved.  Are you really sure you want to develop 2 coins at once?   Your effectively splitting your mining audience which is doubling your chance of a 51% attack.

1 more question.  For your charity coin.  Do 100% of all mined coins go to charity?  Or do 50% go to miners and 50% go to charity?   Or is it 50% to miners, 25% to you, and 25% to charity?

Good questions.

If I don't do them both at once I'll be accused of using a charity coin to launch a profit coin.  I don't want that so I'll work harder to launch them both.  I'm hoping with the charity coin ill get some help, but who knows.

The charity coin: OrphanCoin, I won't get anything, not a single coin.  I think 50% to orphanages and 50% to miners is the most fair way to go.

CatholicCoin would be my coin, where I try to make a profit down the line.  I know, it's a church coin why is it for profit?  Cause its gonna take work and money and besides, any coin I launch I want to give a part to charity so it doesn't really matter.  

But with this coin 30% will go to the Catholic Church, 20% to me and 50% to miners.  I know, that's so much but that's nothing unless the coin makes it and if it does a portion of that will go to other workers, bounties, marketing, admin, general overhead, etc, so the actual profit would be much smaller than the 20%.

And to prove I'm not in this thing for the short term - every single coin in the first 3 months, so 100% of the coins that should be coming to me or charity, will go straight back into the alt coin community via this forum.  I'll give it all away randomly, with no preferences or bias, to anyone posting on these boards, even those who hate these coins will be in on the drawings, lotteries or whatever fair and random way I can come up with to give all these coins away.

So then, the only thing left for me is the long term - if these coins survive, after 90 days I would then start to see something.  But meanwhile I'll be working around the clock for free to support these coins and since there's no coins coming to me I guess I'll have to pay out of pocket for bounties etc unless people wanna pitch in. I don't know how much I can pay out of pocket so I'm not making any exact promises there but I'll do what I can to help these 2 coins develop and grow.

[Vlad2Vlad]

So let me clarify.  For the first 90 days: for both coins:  miners would get 50% and members of this forum would get the entire second half (50%).  Basically anyone who posts on these coins' threads would be eligible for any and all the payouts.  There may be some rule made there to prevent spamming just to get your name in the pot.


I don't know, maybe post once per day for a week for every weekly drawing or something like that.  Or maybe we'll do weekly big lotteries and then some daily drawing.  And anybody can choose to kick a % of their winning in a pot for bounties but that's not in any way necessary. I'm just not sure how I'll fund development - I'm not sure how much I can commit out of pocket at this point but the odds of these 2 coins getting killed by an attack is so great that I'll figure something out if they do survive.


The rationale is this: I'm not gonna call the Catholic Church or an orphanage and offer them coins when I don't know if these coins will be dead next week.  That's humiliating.  I figure if they survive 3 months then I can call around and not be so embarrassed or worried about an imminent 51% attack.

[Vivisector999]

A couple of more things.

Your jobless and semi broke.  You have 2 small children, and can't afford to put much money into the development of your coin.  You aren't a programmer, and your trying to launch 2 clone coins at once.  You don't have plans unless by some miracle your coins are still standing 3 months later, your going to take half the profits from the miners, and you think somehow your coins are going to outperform the other 99% of the daily alts being released.  And to make matters worse your going to put a target on your coin by giving it a religious title, and you expect someone to set up merged mining for it, possibly for $30/hr??

Do you have many plans on creating stores to buy goods with your coins?  Are you already hitting up big businesses to see if they will accept Catholic Coin as a method of payment?  I still say you should have gone with "Itchy and Scratchy Coins".  "It's like money, but more fun".

Take the spare time you have, spend it with your kids.  All your going to end up doing is using up all your time, and losing everything your pouring into this venture. 


1 thing you might have going for your coin.  I can see the ads now.  "For the naughty catholic girl in you, Sextoys.com now accepting Catholic Coins, 30% of the proceeds going back to the Catholic Church"

[Vlad2Vlad]

Lol, ok, the last part got me laughing.

You're being too pessimistic.  Look around, show me a coin launched in the last 3 months who did the things you're expecting me to do.  None have. It's a work in progress.  If people had that kind of money to get that much done in such a short amount of time they'd probably be starting a bigger business not risking it on these alt coins.

I will definitely give it serious thought - I have plenty of time to spend with my kids right now - my worry is that if I start a new job I will be literally working 16 hour days for months to come and that would become a problem.

But at the same time I don't like being led by fear and the unknown of what might be.  

And you say I'm gonna take half the profits after 3 months, you're sounding biased.  It's ZERO% for one coin and 20% for the other coin and that's after supporting both coins with both, time and money for the previous 3 months.  I hardly see that as excessive.

If anyone thinks that's too much I'll point you to coins treading on exchanges which give miners way less of the coins/profits and have not nearly the kind of charity work and transperancy I'm offering.  If that means nothing then the alt community deserves more pump and dump schemes and coins which only serve to enrich one person and care nothing about anybody else.  

The way I see it, I'm very much the opposite from most developers and seeing how most here don't trust any developers that tells me that's a good thing.  Sounds like a lot of scsmmers have come though which is probably why everyone is so negative and quick to flame-on, and blow people up around here.

I've got to weigh my options cause this would be a huge undertaking time-wise but I should have a decision made soon.  And I'm still checking out total costs cause that may be an issue after a few months.

[markm]

Vlad, since what you apparently bring to the table is promotion of coins, forget about making more new coins and just put your efforts into promoting existing coins that you already own some of.

If your promoting skills are good you should be able to pretty much buy up a bunch of any coin you can get a good deal on then promote it increasing its value, take profit, then rinse and repeat either with the same coin if it still seems a good deal or with whatever coin next looks underprixed compared to how much your promotion skills can boost it to.

-MarkM-

[Vlad2Vlad]

Vlad, since what you apparently bring to the table is promotion of coins, forget about making more new coins and just put your efforts into promoting existing coins that you already own some of.

If your promoting skills are good you should be able to pretty much buy up a bunch of any coin you can get a good deal on then promote it increasing its value, take profit, then rinse and repeat either with the same coin if it still seems a good deal or with whatever coin next looks underprixed compared to how much your promotion skills can boost it to.

-MarkM-

Interesting mark, I never thought of a promoter as I've always hated sales and been horrible at them.  But I have been told regarding stocks that if I believe in a stock that I could sell anybody on it.  But to me that was never sales - making someone see the truth about how great something is to me is not promoting or sales its Simply the truth and the truth is easy to sell.

I don't think I could pump and dump like that but yeah, there are a few coins I really believe in that I tell people about everywhere I go.  Problem is - right now the masses are skeptical of alt coins cause they either don't get them or they hear about the bad reputation.  

I'll still consider launching my own coin but I've decided to use this feedback as the consensus of the general public and not launch CatholicCoin and not even OrphanCoin although I personally liked both.  I'm gonna wait for a coin to come to me that feels just right in very way.

Until then I'm gonna keep accumulating devcoins and ixCoins.  I think one of those 2 will make it big.  I'm convinced of that.  But people don't believe in small things, they want to buy something that's already up there and there's little money to be made in those coins which have already ran so much.

Thanks for your input, mark.

[Zas]

Quite frankly, you 'could' build in a charge to the transaction fees...but that would be a tax and you're not going to get anywhere with that either. You are asking...other people to effectively mint your coin yet pre-mining to give yourself an extreme advantage over others only to hoard the 'wealth' to cash in much later. This is not how money works and is simply against the whole concept of money. Quite frankly, you shouldn't be doing this for profit anyway. Money is about trust and the moment you start putting profit into the equation, you are going to lose that trust.

The only ones that should earn any money out of a coin are miners. Why? Because they're the ones actually doing the work. It may not seem like it if you have invest a couple hundred bitcoins in marketing and so on, but the fact of the matter is, you didn't need to spend that amount, you could have just launched the coin without much fanfare at all, just a post on a forum such as this one. The miners then have to exert or invest energy and time into making more coins to make it more valuable. If you are hoarding coins, then you are artificially inflating the value of the coin, in order to dump it for a larger payout later.

Money isn't about making profit, it is about exchanging wealth. So instead of buying two oxen for twenty six chickens and a coup...which is a logistical nightmare.... you're simply trading two oxen for 15 ixcoin, which so happens to be exchangeable for twenty six chickens and a coup, which if not immediately available at that market, you can travel to another market and get those chickens with very little added expenditure.

At least that's my two cents.

If you're going to premine, feel free, just be prepared to have to exchange it sharpish to encourage trade.

[solracx]

Quite frankly, you 'could' build in a charge to the transaction fees...but that would be a tax and you're not going to get anywhere with that either. You are asking...other people to effectively mint your coin yet pre-mining to give yourself an extreme advantage over others only to hoard the 'wealth' to cash in much later. This is not how money works and is simply against the whole concept of money. Quite frankly, you shouldn't be doing this for profit anyway. Money is about trust and the moment you start putting profit into the equation, you are going to lose that trust.

The only ones that should earn any money out of a coin are miners. Why? Because they're the ones actually doing the work. It may not seem like it if you have invest a couple hundred bitcoins in marketing and so on, but the fact of the matter is, you didn't need to spend that amount, you could have just launched the coin without much fanfare at all, just a post on a forum such as this one. The miners then have to exert or invest energy and time into making more coins to make it more valuable. If you are hoarding coins, then you are artificially inflating the value of the coin, in order to dump it for a larger payout later.

Money isn't about making profit, it is about exchanging wealth. So instead of buying two oxen for twenty six chickens and a coup...which is a logistical nightmare.... you're simply trading two oxen for 15 ixcoin, which so happens to be exchangeable for twenty six chickens and a coup, which if not immediately available at that market, you can travel to another market and get those chickens with very little added expenditure.

At least that's my two cents.

If you're going to premine, feel free, just be prepared to have to exchange it sharpish to encourage trade.

How is it that the miners are the only ones doing all the work??

The fact that a widely successful litecoin had developers begging for support is an indicator of how broken the incentive structure is.

Imagine if Google has to beg for funds for every piece of work they had to do.