|
Title: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: tech72 on December 09, 2017, 02:17:57 PM Source1 http://www.newsweek.com/quantum-computers-kill-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-509053
Source2 http://minedit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Screen-Shot-2017-12-06-at-10.52.30-PM.png So please tell me what other coin have “quantum resistance” future for now? Please give me the name / list etc Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: GeePeeU on December 09, 2017, 02:21:33 PM Quantum computing will fuck up a lot more than just Cryptography.
I think cryptocurrencies will be the least of our worries if they begin a functional, physical, prototype. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: DevelopmentBank on December 09, 2017, 02:28:45 PM Quantum computing means no password in the world will be safe. It will be able to brute force and crack passwords for almost anything. Bitcoin will be the least of your worries when someone breaks into government accounts and steals all the money in the world. Bitcoin is such a small piece of the world's money for now.
Stop spreading fear and anxiety. Quantum computers might not come in our lifetime. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: Snorren on December 09, 2017, 02:37:45 PM Why the fuck would someone "drive up the markets to short them" if they can crack the passwords to btc acc with their super computer? It's like the worst plan ever.
Just take the money from everyone's accounts? This would include all accounts, including fiat bank accounts......... Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: tech72 on December 09, 2017, 02:46:23 PM Quantum computing means no password in the world will be safe. It will be able to brute force and crack passwords for almost anything. Bitcoin will be the least of your worries when someone breaks into government accounts and steals all the money in the world. Bitcoin is such a small piece of the world's money for now. Stop spreading fear and anxiety. Quantum computers might not come in our lifetime. "Earlier this year, a new €1 billion ($1.1 billion) project was announced by the European Commission aimed at bringing about a “quantum revolution.”" I think 5-20 years top from now. Technology move super fast right now. From NOKIA 3310 into iphone (that can be use to snap hd pic, video, apps, bangking, internet, gaming, computer inside single small phone), all in just 5 years! Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: ask on December 09, 2017, 02:48:43 PM If you mean Quantum computers are going to be able to crack SHA256 then this will not only kill crypto currencies.
All bank securities are running on SHA256 and SHA512 then this will be end of the ecosystem and this will not happen. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: 左 on December 09, 2017, 02:50:10 PM If you mean Quantum computers are going to be able to crack SHA256 then this will not only kill crypto currencies. All bank securities are running on SHA256 and SHA512 then this will be end of the ecosystem and this will not happen. Typical case of someone opening a thread who doesn't really understand what he is talking about Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: tech72 on December 09, 2017, 02:52:18 PM If you mean Quantum computers are going to be able to crack SHA256 then this will not only kill crypto currencies. They can upgrade their system easily.All bank securities are running on SHA256 and SHA512 then this will be end of the ecosystem and this will not happen. For bitcoin err u mean another fork? Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: followmenot on December 09, 2017, 03:05:49 PM I think quantum computers won't only kill bitcoin, they will kill most of altcoins as well. But there are already quantum resistance alternatives you can start investing.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: kaya11 on December 09, 2017, 03:06:01 PM If you mean Quantum computers are going to be able to crack SHA256 then this will not only kill crypto currencies. All bank securities are running on SHA256 and SHA512 then this will be end of the ecosystem and this will not happen. Typical case of someone opening a thread who doesn't really understand what he is talking about An alarming post, if this is for real what would happen to the world. I guess it's not real, if it is real deal then they won't bother telling you that Bitcoin wallet are not safe anymore and can be cracked down with super computers. Well if I owned computers like that I would slowly drain your accounts and you would never know what happened. There is a reason why they have said that and not to warn people but put fears in them and might sell their Bitcoin at low price, who knows. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: Ix on December 09, 2017, 03:15:34 PM SHA256 is not "encryption" in the traditional sense, as noted in the reddit post - it is not what is used to secure your wallet. It is a hash algorithm, and it is not broken by quantum computing. ECDSA and most other non-hash bashed signature algorithms can be broken trivially by a powerful enough quantum computer.
Banks and passwords are still secure because they use hashing algorithms like SHA256 to protect passwords. And those hashed passwords (and bank ledgers) are NOT public like the blockchain. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are most definitely the biggest target for quantum computing. The other big problem would be the PKI for web security, that is also toast, but it is also easier to switch it to post quantum cryptography. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: bribed on December 09, 2017, 03:23:09 PM Is quantum computing really this far off? I remember reading somewhere that big corporations like amazon and MS, Google are already working on this technology and have made quite some progression. Governments are surely also researching in the field. Please tell me that this was just FUD and quantum computing wont be availible any time soon. This scenario is really scary, not only for BTC but for the whole world. If this kind of power would be into the wrong hands, the damage that can be made would be irreversible.
As for coins that target quantum computing protection there is QRL (quantum resistent ledger) as I know of. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: tech72 on December 09, 2017, 03:59:24 PM I think we no need to be scare about it much.
Since boxming already explained regarding of this issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKHiJWjMPI It will took at least 15 years before we have first fully working quantum computer. In the mean time, we have 15 years time to build strategy on how to make the blokchain technology resistant to it. Currently, even btc dev have a plan to integrate quantum resistant extension with bitcoin blockchain network. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: subitlist on December 09, 2017, 04:40:35 PM couldnt be bitcoin transform to qubit?
there are some people feeling threatened by the bitcoin/crypto growth. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: publicjud on December 09, 2017, 04:44:55 PM I guess if quantum computers appear there will be significant changes at the BTC and other cryptos. BTW there will be huge problems not only at crypto market)) Plus I guess quantum miners will appear asap ;)
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: kayeme on December 09, 2017, 04:45:09 PM No it won't, they will just fork the code long before quantum computers or any other new future technology poses any threat whatsoever.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: cau on December 09, 2017, 06:14:47 PM X-posting from QRL thread -
Look for Deezeyay's excellent explanation on how things will get hacked with the key address... It was scary to know that even after hard fork during the coin swap with the old key address things will get exposed As to other already existing cryptocurrencies forking into quantum proof crypto, there is a huge problem that's worth mentioning: even if they successfully fork their blockchain into a quantum proof crypto, their old coins can still be hacked as if they where not protected by quantum proof cryptography. Here's why: Whether you hard-fork like BTC and end up with 2 coins like BTC and BCH or whether you hard-fork like ETH where you end up with 1 coin: after the fork, your coins or coin will be where you had your old coin: in a wallet or an exchange. This means it’s still accessible through your old private key. This old private key is NOT quantum proof, that's simply how forking works, you can't just make the old private key disappear. If the new coin wouldn’t be connected with the old private key, how would it end up in your wallet/ exchange and be accessible for you? So to finalize the quantum proof update, you will need to move your quantum proof coin to another wallet. That way you leave the old private key behind you with the old wallet. Your coins in your new wallet will only be accessible with your new quantum proof private key. Simple right? Guess what:
[/list] So lots of new quantum proof coins, will not be moved away from the old private key and be accessible through both their old private key and their new quantum proof private key. It’s like when your house has a cardboard front door anybody can walk through. And to fix that, your make an new unbreakable door and install that as your backdoor, while leaving your front door as it was. As long as you don’t build a brick wall where your cardboard door is, people can still walk in your house and steal your stuff. Thank you for this explanation. I was wondering about Quantum resistance is something that could be developed for existing Blockchains through forks. As I understand it you say that it could be possible?! Then the market for QRL might be a bit diminished since it is going to be hard to replace brand names sush as BitCoin. The best thing for QRL would be proof of concept of that a quantum computer can break BitCoin encryption before they even lifted this as a risk. Since then people will panic and look somewhere else. It is for this that QRL will need a strong brand name to get people to flock to it. No, you don't get it. I did not say it can be done. The question if a blockchain can be made quantum proof by forking is a different discussion, but is not relevant. Why? Because it would be useless even if it COULD be done. The point is this, and I will try to explain again below: ALL existing crypto with coins or tokens out (ERC20 or the final product), can NEVER quantum-secure all their existing coins/ tokens and will therefore be at risk of having coins hacked and mass sold when quantum computers are in full function. So let me rephrase that for clarity: even if they could upgrade their blockchain to a quantum secure blockchain, they can’t automatically secure the coins people own. These coins can still be hacked after a quantum proof update. I’ll try to explain again but I’ll have to start at the beginning, so don’t blame me if it sounds basic: A crypto has coins (or tokens). These coins are stored in wallets or on an exchange. As an owner of these coins, you want to be the only one to be able to access the coins and move them if you wish. So to protect your property, your coins are stored on an address: your public key. Your private key gives you the authorization to move them to another address (on an exchange it’s different because you don’t have the private key there yourself, but the result is the same: if someone cracks the main private key, they can steal your coins). Your public key can be known by others and is public, but your private key obviously not. If anybody gets your private key, they can get access and steal your coins. Now how do you get these public and private keys? If you get a public key (address), the blockchain gives you the private key that comes with that public key. If you lose the private key, you will be locked out of the public key (the address) and you will never be able to get your coins out of there ever again. Blockchains can’t just email you a new private key, because the only way a blockchain knows you’re the owner, is if you show the private key. So if you lose it, you can’t prove anything, and your locked out for good. That is why blockchains are so secure. So the only access to your coins that are stored on your public key, is through your private key. Private keys can not be hacked by normal computers. But quantum computers can hack the normal private keys. Now if a blockchain is quantum proof, they give you a public key with a quantum proof private key. So this private key can not be hacked by a quantum computer, and your coins are safe in that case. Now you think “ok, so if a blockchain upgrades to a quantum proof blockchain, the problem is solved”. But the problem is, if a blockchain already exists, there are millions of coins out there that NEED to be accessible by their owners after the fork or upgrade. To understand why that is a problem, and why that can’t be solved, we need to understand how a fork works: so how can a blockchain be upgraded and still give the owners of the coins access to their coins. After the fork, everybody needs to have the exact same amount of coins they had before the fork. So there will be a 1:1 tokenswap. Everyone who owns an amount of tokens of the old blockchain, will own that same amount of tokens of the new blockchain. To accomplish that, you will NEED to keep the old private keys active until the owner moves it’s coins to a new address: a public key that is accessible only through a new quantum proof private key. (Maybe another option would be that you wouldn’t need to move your coins to a new address, but the old private key would be de-activated after you claimed your new quantum proof private key. I don’t know if this last option is even possible, but if it would be possible, it would still mean that your old private key needs to be active after the fork until the owner uses it and actively de-activates it.) So: - The blockchain "knows" the amount of tokens you have at that specific time, and thus the amount of tokens you are entitled to, by looking at your public key. (Like for example etherscan does.) - They can only send these tokens to its rightful owner, by sending them to that exact public key (address). That way it is guaranteed that only the rightful owner can access them, because only he has access to that address (The old private key and old public key). So then the new coins are on you old address, that is still accessible through your old private key. Now, even if it would technically possible, the blockchain can't erase the old private key or replace it with a new one, because then the owner would not be able to access his coins. Remember: he doesn’t HAVE the new private key. It’s not like you can get your new private key by email. So the blockchain needs to allow you to enter with your old private key, even if they just upgraded itself to a quantum proof blockchain. So your coins are NOT protected by that blockchains new and improved quantum proof private keys. Not until you have accessed your coins through your old private key. Then you would need to move them, or de-activate the old private key to lock your coins up in a way that it’s only accessible with a quantum proof private key. So what you need to understand is this: after a blockchain is upgraded to a quantum secure blockchain, ALL coins are still accessible through the old private keys, and therefore still hackable by quantum computers. So even though this blockchain can claim to be quantum proof, their coins are NOT until the owner accesses them and takes action. Now we come to the next point I wrote before, where you will see why a big amount of the coins of an upgraded blockchain will never become quantum secure: - Not all owners of coins will take the necessary action. That’s just human nature. (People don't read, or read half, don't understand, postpone, don't care, don't know how or don't see the point in any other way) - There are a lot of coins without an actual active owner: the owners lost their private key, their password or got locked out in another way. It happens a lot. So especially with coins that exist for a while like BTC and ETH, there are a lot of coins that nobody even CAN move to a new wallet. Don’t underestimate the total amount of these coins. All these coins will still be accessible through the old private key after "quantum proving" the blockchain because the owners need to move them, or de-activate the old private key to lock your coins up with a quantum proof private key. So lots of new quantum proof coins, will not be moved away from the old private key and be accessible through both their old private key and their new quantum proof private key. It’s like when your house has a cardboard front door anybody can walk through. And to fix that, your make an new unbreakable door and install that as your backdoor, while leaving your front door as it was. As long as you don’t build a brick wall where your cardboard door is, people can still walk in your house and steal your stuff. So the only conclusion can be: Even if you could upgrade an existing blockchain to a quantum proof blockchain (and wether or not that is possible is still open for discussion), then still, a big part of their circulating supply can be hacked. Is that a problem? Yes, even if you move and secure your own coins, if others are stolen and sold, your coins will drop in value dramatically, and panic sales would be all around. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: sp_skeptic on December 10, 2017, 04:31:08 PM I think there is a basic misunderstanding here. The Bitcoin blockchain does not store public keys; it stores public key hashes. When you do a transaction, your public key is checked against the public key hash in the blockchain to verify that it's your bitcoin, then the transaction can take place.
Quantum computers aren't particularly good at breaking hashes (which is why hash-based digital signatures are used in quantum resistant cryptography), and will not be able to get a public key from a public key hash anytime soon. The threat is that given a public key, they can calculate the private key and hijack the transaction. The window for doing this is at the time of the transaction and before the transaction is incorporated into the blockchain, because it is only then that the actual public key is exposed. If one were to keep some bitcoin in the address from which a transaction is sent, an attacker, having obtained the public key, could break it at his leisure and eventually access the rest of the bitcoin in that address. But this is already considered very bad practice and nobody does this. The idea that the entire blockchain is vulnerable to a quantum computer is incorrect, at least for the forseeable future. Grover's algorithm can be used on a quantum computer to break hashes, but it's much less efficient than Shor's algorithm. Therefore ECC will be broken long before quantum computers can threaten hashes. Or so I understand it. The Quantum Resistant Ledger (QRL) is a coin that is designed to resist quantum computers. Others are Curecoin and Iota. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: Ix on December 10, 2017, 09:06:49 PM I think there is a basic misunderstanding here. The Bitcoin blockchain does not store public keys; it stores public key hashes. I don't know the exact count, but early versions of bitcoin mining paid out to public keys, not hashes. I think the first 1mil or so bitcoins mined by Satoshi and a few others are not hashed and are therefore vulnerable. Plus there is not a requirement to pay to hashes, there are plenty of other public keys on the blockchain for sure. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: danieljefrry on December 10, 2017, 09:22:03 PM Sounds scary, what do you guys think about Quantum, will it exist in the next 5-10 years time? Also name few examples crypto with Quantum proof. Gotta buy some of them.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: cnmcdee on December 10, 2017, 09:22:52 PM Quantum Computing will NOT even touch cryptocurrency
If you spend some time training on the 5 Qubit IBM training system you will learn in the literature that it can only reduce the problem set by a SQRT. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: Ix on December 10, 2017, 09:40:47 PM Quantum Computing will NOT even touch cryptocurrency If you spend some time training on the 5 Qubit IBM training system you will learn in the literature that it can only reduce the problem set by a SQRT. This is a reference to hashing algorithms and Grover's solution. Shor's solution breaks public key cryptography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor's_algorithm "If a quantum computer with a sufficient number of qubits could operate without succumbing to noise and other quantum decoherence phenomena, Shor's algorithm could be used to break public-key cryptography schemes such as the widely used RSA scheme." All cryptos using ECDSA are highly vulnerable. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: JesusCryptos on December 11, 2017, 10:49:47 PM Bitcoin can and will die also for many other reasons, the future of crypto is PoS and other innovative techniques
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: yura_878 on December 11, 2017, 10:55:50 PM Bitcoin can and will die also for many other reasons, the future of crypto is PoS and other innovative techniques Also, I think that if a quantum computer arrives then bitcoin will be destroyed.Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: Raist on December 11, 2017, 11:12:02 PM No it will not. Or else - it must come suddenly. How do you imagine sudden attack by quantum unit? IBM or Alphabet guys will say - oh yeah we have sold 25- or 500 quantum comps to hackers, but they swore not to hack BTC... and then we have forgotten about that...neeee.....:) By the way I already have seen one system that will be PQC ready next summer (although there is no quantum comp still). This project is on this forum right now. So do not be afraid - quantum hackers will not have a chance-)))
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: mpufatzis on December 12, 2017, 09:47:23 AM I've heard once Antonopoulos saying that in case of the quantum computers appear, the decryption code can be upgrated (I suppose to something more difficult even for those computers). I believe that he's right and so the danger should be minimal.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: djangocoin on December 12, 2017, 09:56:16 AM Quantum resistance can be added to it and other coins when the threat of quantum computers starts to become real. Right now i'd say it's a very low priority since it can and will be dealt with and is a threat that's at least a decade or more away.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: sic57005 on December 12, 2017, 09:56:29 AM There were rumors 10 and even 20 years ago that quantum computer can break cryptography. Theoretically, yes. Practically we still not managed to build quantum computer than can make anything useful. Even if we finally will make one, it is not like desktop PC to sell it in boxes to every script kiddie. This would be property of some powerful research team controlled by government and why the hell they will do attempts to break BTC?
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: Riddikulo on December 12, 2017, 01:34:35 PM Source1 http://www.newsweek.com/quantum-computers-kill-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-509053 Source2 http://minedit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Screen-Shot-2017-12-06-at-10.52.30-PM.png So please tell me what other coin have “quantum resistance” future for now? Please give me the name / list etc I think it's too early to panic about quantum computers. Perhaps the developers will come up with some kind of reliable protection for their appearance and we will not have to worry about it. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: lighpulsar07 on December 12, 2017, 01:50:33 PM Indeed it is theorized that the strongest encryption known to today's standard the SHA-256 and 512 would be easily cracked by a quantum computer so, bitcoin and other cryptocoins with SHA-256 algorithm will more likely be cracked and can easily manipulated but don't worry the only first quantum computer ever made is in china but it will take decades or centuries to make a quantum computer to be available on market and also, the devs will be working on this problem in future.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: ManaMan on December 12, 2017, 02:01:30 PM yes Quantum computer is a threat to the crypto currencies, most of them as of today. Others stated well that many more things will become woundable to this. I remember reading that they are still relatively in the development, I think one computer could sustain for not even 1 second.
If you are looking for Quantum resistant crypto currency you can read IOTA white paper here : https://iota.org/IOTA_Whitepaper.pdf (26 page talks about their resistance to quantum computations) If quantum computers will be near to really be produced we could do an "upgrade" of bitcoin changing by adding another way to generate wallet addresses so this can be updated but needs to be done right. Although there will still be possible to go through "old" addresses in that case and to take coins from lost or forgotten wallets or even once that people didn't want to transfer to a new address which is resistant to quantum computing. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: rumpel_tusk on December 12, 2017, 02:03:03 PM Why the fuck would someone "drive up the markets to short them" if they can crack the passwords to btc acc with their super computer? It's like the worst plan ever. What if cryptocurrency is mainstream is and is a significant portion of the world economy's value. Then a hostile power decides to crash that sector of the economy by breaking into every account that holds cryptocurrency. The world may lose faith in cryptocurrency and abandon it. People will have lost their savings because the Cryptocurrency community wasn't prepared for Quantum Computing, which may be ready in as little 10 years!Just take the money from everyone's accounts? This would include all accounts, including fiat bank accounts......... Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: sic57005 on December 12, 2017, 02:04:38 PM Quantum Computing will NOT even touch cryptocurrency If you spend some time training on the 5 Qubit IBM training system you will learn in the literature that it can only reduce the problem set by a SQRT. This is a reference to hashing algorithms and Grover's solution. Shor's solution breaks public key cryptography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor's_algorithm "If a quantum computer with a sufficient number of qubits could operate without succumbing to noise and other quantum decoherence phenomena, Shor's algorithm could be used to break public-key cryptography schemes such as the widely used RSA scheme." All cryptos using ECDSA are highly vulnerable. So back again to Grover's. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: rooster2000bka on December 12, 2017, 02:35:55 PM I do not quite get it! The development of hardware is necessary, the software will develop accordingly and always find the right way! BTC will be the same.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: pedropendukot on December 12, 2017, 02:39:57 PM Quantum is dangerous,the very least you can worry is about cracking BTC,any of your privacy would be compromised if they built a quantum computer.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: shyliar on December 12, 2017, 02:47:35 PM Quantum computing means no password in the world will be safe. It will be able to brute force and crack passwords for almost anything. Bitcoin will be the least of your worries when someone breaks into government accounts and steals all the money in the world. Bitcoin is such a small piece of the world's money for now. Stop spreading fear and anxiety. Quantum computers might not come in our lifetime. Completely agree with this. No financial system will be safe (wall street or banks) based on current technology usage. The military wouldn't be safe. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: cryptogeek101 on December 12, 2017, 02:56:41 PM Source1 http://www.newsweek.com/quantum-computers-kill-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-509053 Source2 http://minedit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Screen-Shot-2017-12-06-at-10.52.30-PM.png So please tell me what other coin have “quantum resistance” future for now? Please give me the name / list etc I think it's too early to panic about quantum computers. Perhaps the developers will come up with some kind of reliable protection for their appearance and we will not have to worry about it. The only thing that is permanent is change. As they are thinking about using Quantum computer to brute force bitcoin wallets the developers of Bitcoin will be thinking about a high powered resistance force to counter the force . This can take years to achieve. There is no need to be afraid of the past and the future. Think about the present moment. Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: KevenDabid on December 25, 2017, 03:50:40 AM I am also worried about what future Quantum computer will do to the cryptocurrency market, and whether it will lead to a complete collapse of the cryptocurrency market, which scares me.
Title: Re: Quantum computer will kill bitcoin Post by: NaissuR on December 25, 2017, 04:48:01 AM Cardano is quantom resistant ..
|
