Bitcoin Forum

Currently there is not adequate methods to bet on both sides of bitcoin.

But this is all changing starting on December 10th, 2017!!!!

The downfall has already begun  B)

Wallstreet is about to collude and drive the price of bitcoin to the ground. 400+ Billion USD is the amount of profits that are up for grab by shorting bitcoin and altcoins. Wallstreet thrives when the USD $ is strong. They also thrive using questionable practices of collusion and market manipulation.  Theres no way they are going to let crypto currency get in the way of their profits. There is also 0 chance that 99% of the world is going to agree to adopt a currency that has inflated 15,000% by the first 1% to adopt it. Crypto will certainly crash before the remaining 99% of the world population agree to get scammed by the intial 1% of investors. Wallstreet agreed to add options for crypto because it is in their best interest to create a way to short. They will also collect huge on Fees.

The smartest players who drove prices will start to cash in, and then bet on the downfall. Everyone is going to be scrambling to collect in on this 400 Billion USD that was generated off, essentially, a Ponzi Scheme. You can certainly make a lot of money off a Ponzi Scheme as long as the next guy in line continues to buy into the hype. Institutional investors are about to make tons of money off options. Financial leverage is one of the biggest benefits of trading options. I predict the downslope will be as sharp as the rise. 


Good luck, invest responsibly :)

You're acting as if 99% of the world used their brains. They don't. Which is almost always why they're in the 99% in the first place.

Also, if you believe that Bitcoin is a ponzi you're either a clown, or a FUDster who's trying to pick up coins at a discount. Good luck with that.

I think you are getting the dynamics wrong. Yes, shorting bitcoin might be profitable, but only if the price falls as well. So for Wall Street whales to profit from going short on bitcoin, it means that they need to also get for it's price to fall, and in order to do that, they need to sell BTC. Do they have BTC already? Maybe they do, and maybe that's why we saw the price of BTC increasing like crazy, but maybe that was just legit adoption. So if Wall Street whales don't have BTC, they have no control over it's real price, so they will take huge risks by going short on BTC.

To be honest, I think they already hold some BTC, and they will short and sell BTC at the same time, and they will win from both sides. But the thing is, why stop there? They can then go long on bitcoin, and buy some coins to make the price increase, and again will profit from both sides. I don't think they will destroy crypto. They will do what they do best, they will collect huge profits with crypto, and they have a lot to gain with it's existence.

LOL :D You could already make gains when crypto was dropping with shorting on exchanges like Kraken and Poloniex :)

Anyhow. Bitcoin is here to stay... this is just the beginning. Only this year Bitcoin price increased 20x (https://coincodex.com/crypto/bitcoin/). What do you think will happen next year where the adoption will be even higher?

https://i.gyazo.com/1cf0d08fba1f72361d9bcbbb8f796e57.png (https://coincodex.com/crypto/bitcoin/)

Wow, you don't understand at all how this is going to work.

It's ok, i can help explain.

(1) CME & CBOE will buy and hold Bitcoin. The futures contracts the CME and CBOE are going to open for their customers will exist on the CME and CBOE exchange networks. They'll buy a bunch of Bitcoin, hold it in reserve, add some Dollars to it, to have a pool of money from which to back a portion of the transactions. What they can't back represents their risk.

(2) CME & CBOE will make (create) a market for futures contracts against/on Bitcoin. The investors are speculating with other investors and firms on the CME & CBOE exchange whether they think the price of Bitcoin may go up or down. I'll repeat...this will happen on on the CME & CBOE exchange.

(3) The Bitcoin blockchain will never be involved in these speculative contracts. The futures speculation happens with the CME and CBOE. There will be no interaction with the blockchain, therefore the supply/demand created by the futures contracts will not directly cause the same activity on the blockchain. The two networks of investment activity are always separated.

(4) Bitcoin price will be influenced by the long term buy and hold and sell activity. As the CME, CBOE, investment firms, or individual investors decide to speculate on the future price of Bitcoin they may have to buy and hold bitcoin to represent risk mitigation for their bets on the CME & CBOE exchange.

To long, didn't read? These futures contracts aren't being transacted over the Bitcoin Blockchain. These contracts are bets about future prices, they don't actually require anyone to buy and/or sell Bitcoin for each contract. The Bitcoin price isn't going to go crazy each day. There are currently futures contracts on oil, gas, pigs, coffee, oranges, soy beans. Are the value of these items going crazy each week? No.

Actually, I believe you just misunderstood my wording. I said they will "cash in" and then "bet on the downfall", meaning exactly: sell their bitcoin and buy short options.

I have a lot just like this and what is the true point of this thread?
Is it to give knowledge for a fall that would happen because they will do it just to win the bet or is it just a simple FUD?

Maybe you are right and then there is this is other where you might be wrong too. You mean to say it is really goig to happen? What if not? Then they lose their bets.

It is not just them who holds the coin.

You sound like an uninformed investor, so I hope I don't offend you if buying Bitcoin was one of your first experiences. But previous results are not indicative of future results. They are two separate events. There's three ways to invest and they are basically all wrong:

1. Fundaments (lol, basically the same as trying to beat the analysts at sportsbetting and you have to pay juice, like trading fees, bid/ask spreads, commission, taxes, etc)

2. Technical Analysis (lol, using charts and maths to try to predict the future)

3. Investor Sentiment (lol, trying to guess trends based on things like analyst hype and media)


Theres actually a 4th way to invest. Its to collect fees off other people's money and just enjoy the lols.

They'd have to do it in the opposite order. If they sell their bitcoin first and then sell short (it's not called buy short, but it is called buying puts), they'll have missed the market.

They need to sell short (or buy puts) and then sell their Bitcoin, and then their short future contracts will be in the money and they can make some money.

Thanks for clarifying, I misunderstood you too. So now the question is - how much would one person or entity need to sell to move the market enough? Would selling 1,000BTC do it? 10,000BTC? More?

And these guys have to currently own or buy that much Bitcoin for them to be able to engage in your scenario without having run up the market from where we are now.

Although I do not agree with shorting this market. However I do think at $14K it's still a bit too expensive to buy in.
I'll view $10K as a good point

Ahh, the Levi's investment model off the Bitcoin gold rush. Nice! I agree. An exchange gets to participate in all the action but avoid most of the risk. Hmm, sounds an a lot like the CME and CBOE....haha.

I'm a Bitcoin bull, we've seen 80% drops in the past, it had nothing to do with weakening of the principles of Bitcoin. It had to do with weakening demand and presented a great buying opportunity.

As soon as Wall St. mega shorters are done playing their short-the-shit-out-of-Bitcoin game, the rest of us will flood in from the sidelines and buy on the sale. It'll be giving everyone a second chance to get in at that lower price they never saw. It'll be fucking great!

---

Haha, people have been saying "it's too expensive right now" all the way through the run up that's lasted all of 2017.

The CBOE is bringing a game changer to crypto.

This is THE FIRST regulated two-way trade where bitcoin can actually be shorted.

I'm almost relieved that the bitcoin is being dumped again. The growth was too fast. The best thing is to keep the bitcoin on longterm. Day trading is too risky right now.There are also some forks that might bring some interesting altcoins.

I think the safest route is to sell off a certain % before the futures product begins trading tomorrow. To be completely fair, it seems a bit unpredictable what will happen. It is merely my guess that some event will happen, it will trigger shorts, public panic will ensue, and I will be skiing down the bitcoin graph

Good luck with shorting Bitcoin. In my opinion, it is too risky to trade at the beginning of introducing such important thing. We can't really tell what the investors will do. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to force a huge dump and then they would buy BTC for a lower price. They could repeat this a few times and voila! It's basically free money for them. I don't want to lose my BTC so I won't risk. I won't trade.

There would be no Bitcoin futures if they thought Bitcoin had no future.
Moreover, if we may believe Andreas, we haven't seen anything yet: https://youtu.be/o7TtwckPCUI

I don't understand why people are so terrified to grow some balls, be honest, and just admit that it's all a Ponzi.  Where I grew up many people made their incomes being involved with Ponzi schemes...not as organizers/operators but rather people that knew to get in early and get out early.  They never lost money.  It was the HODL mentality that always lost everything.  You are the clown for ignoring the reality.  When someone pools their money with others into a system that produces no interest earnings, goods, services, or especially pay dividends....it's a Ponzi.  Don't be part of the 99%...be honest and use your brain.  Call it what it is...since it is what it is.

That said, get out now...ride the futures to the downside, and then buyback when there is blood in the streets.

Well said Realist247

It started, but now it has recovered back again, $15500 and counting.


If you REALLY think that that is the way that futures works, then go to the primary again. AFAIK, they are teaching simple mathematics on 7th grade.


You have said everything with this. Good luck with your tiny investments on your local banks.


And thank you for the wishes, try to post with your main account for the next time.

That's only because they don't trade Pork Bellies anymore.  BTC could easily be the "new pork bellies" in terms of volatility.

I found this on your website: "I believe that our most powerful asset as modern Asian girls is the freedom of our minds and the power of the internet."

You know that Bitcoin stands for freedom of our money with the power of the internet, right? Stop wasting your and our time. You clearly haven't done any due diligence.

I've been following BTC since 2011.  I happen believe in certain alt-coins for the long term so in the spirit of truly free markets we agree...swallow that truth first.  I follow this forum since it's good to have a finger on the pulse of what the dumb money is doing...especially at this point.  Just because I am honest and you are clearly full of shit or just stupid and cannot see the obvious reality...plus you have an enormous barely literate troll army that has your back (while I do not) doesn't mean that I am not allowed to speak my mind.

funny thing is the futures market does not need to buy one Bitcoin to do budiness, it's all on contracts. They may buy some to hedge but they can operate long and short without holding any Bitcoin

That's really a good point.I think it would make clear those minds who are still confused about whether bitcoin futures would affect the bitcoin price positively or negatively.Even i was afraid of that thing and about the future of bitcoin.As said,bitcoin futures and blockchain will travel in separate tracks without disturbing both.

You are still living in the age of Vintage movies buddy. Bitcoin isn't any kind of ponzi scheme. It's the new form of currency of this digital age and coming ages. Those 1% who back then invested in the Bitcoin knew its features and were very sure about its importance and value in those time, but unfortunately you haven't understand Bitcoin till this day. How can you even think Bitcoin as a ponzi scheme without knowing anything about it.
Look man Bitcoin is the new revolution and crypto-currencies will be the feature of almost all the businesses in next few years. I would recommend you to learn more about Bitcoin and crytos in general before posing such kind of non-sense topics. It would really be the best decision for you, and you should also try to bear in your mind that within few years the Bitcoin will reach millions.

I believe crypto is the future of the monetary system.

I also think shorting bitcoin is smartest move right now for the reasons outlined in this thread.

I think my trading days with cryptocurrencies are over after I learned the hard way that it isn't easy to do and the market is too volatile to take chances when buying and holding has already proven over and over again to be a superior method.

Hehe volatile markets are exactly what produces profit for day traders though.

If markets weren't volatile there would be no swings. Each swing represents profit regardless of direction

hard way are always rewarding and much better than an easy way with only less to limited profits , in other words trading is still the best to earn a descent amount of income although it is much harder and more riskier than simple investing and hodling but you cant really earn that much on just hoarding your coins beacuse your eanings are only based on the movements of bitcoins and this is the reason that limits your gains. altcoins arent really that volatile but bitcoin is.  being volatile is infact good and benificial because we humans can possibly earn an income because of it and the reason why cryptocurencies are volatile it is because it is decentralized therfor no one holds and controls the market and people can freely buy or sell it resulting for it to bloat and  pump.

Who else is going to short BTC?

Tomorrow is going to be crazy.

I wonder what the shorts vs longs will long like?

Looks like the pricing is dropping already in anticipation of the shorts tomorrow :o

I think that now a sharp drop in the bitcoin rate will not happen. Bitcoin for a while will still show its volatility and will grow in its value further. We are waiting for eight months ahead of bitokoin for the next month and this can not but affect the increase of its growth. In addition, in recent days there has been a good improvement bitcoin, in fact, its main shortcomings with scalability are removed. For bitkoyina there are no barriers for further growth.

Remarkable that all of these newbies advocate selling your bitcoins, don't you think ?

The Truth Teller in these situations is always the black-sheep.

Nobody is even mentioning that Goldman-Sachs is the OWNER of this new CME OP, that tell's all u need to know same as LIBOR, they just want to control the price, to protect the US Dollar.

What of BTC? Just a bunch of GEEKS circle-jerking and driving up the price, and idiot day-traders enjoying the ride, well now its all down hill,

BOTD is now a quick way to go broke, .. HODL is fine if U got your btc for free, by mining,

Hell when I go to coinmarket to see a price there it is all u need to know

"BUY BITCOIN TODAY WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD"

Normal 10-20%, now we just had a -30%, is this your new normal?

BIG players & Gov want OUT, major holders since 2013 want an exit, lots of BTC billionaires, have been HODL'ing since 2013, but now everybody knows that its game-over.

Smart Guys are going to be those said "I cashed out before it was all gone"

GOV is going to destroy BTC with regulation once ppl get hurt and start complaining about losing all their money on BTC's bought with credit cards, and  2nd mtgs on their house.

it seems that if bitcoin is used for short-term play it will be a great loss, it is better to play bitcoin for long term it is more profitable if you want to play short term you can play altcoin available at cheap price.

You obviously don't know jackshit about economics, finance, or even business. But anyways, enjoy getting out early and forgetting to get back in for the post-pop grind.

How is that shorting coming up? Bankrupt already?

facepalm.jpg

Think week should be an interesting ride, for sure. It'll be interesting to see if both " sides" will claim victory at different points and how many times that swings back and forth.

I can definitely see both sides of the coin, no pun intended.

How do you guys even short bitcoin or any altcoin?  So this new bitcoin futures will allow this?

Exactly.  8)

Bitcoin is one of the most volatile assets in the world right now rising and falling more than 20 percent at times in the span of a day. On Thursday, for example, bitcoin hit a high of $19,340 before falling more than 20 percent from that level.

short the btc it's really the riskiest thing that is, has less of a big bad news because the movements are still violent

if we want to invest our money, make sure we know the trend and how much we want to spend. out from the news, I think we can see what is happened in the market. sometimes the news is only attracting people to be panic and they are doing fast sell and buy and makes the price is out of control. I only short if I am sure with the trend because for me, it is too risky and I'd better play safe.

how are you doing there chief with the $3500 per coin which you lost in the past days?
i hope it doesn't hurt as bad as it looks and you came to your senses about betting against the market movement and shorting what you shouldn't have shorted.

try to invest more responsibly next time ;)

https://i.imgur.com/BJO2Hwp.jpg

The very title of this thread is ridiculous, whether it is even for bitcoin or ANYTHING. When you short something you can make a MAXIMUM profit of 100%, assuming it goes all the way to ZERO. Just 100%. This is bitcoin. Thats not enough profit. A massive profit is something like 1000% or 10,000%, which you can make when you go long. How can you make a massive profit when you can only make 100%? Meanwhile you can make INFINITE LOSSES. Shorting is so stupid!

How is shorting BTC working out for you now?
 ::)
Mate, you don't short a trend when it's so bullish.....
Maybe i will join you if BTC hits 100K within one month from now

I predict the downside will be steeper than the rise. But the time is not now. Gigantic spike up first. If you short this you must be mad.

How much of the downside will be steeper than how much of the rise? I don't think we'll see Bitcoin crashing to 0 anytime soon...