Bitcoin Forum

Most have never found a reason to need it. Those that did see it's utility, have given it's present day value against other monetary instruments. People that don't understand that, have in the past and are still presently incorrectly thinking it's a "bubble" or "hype"

I'll make a list of reasons that I know, why Bitcoin is needed by certain people.

1) Recreational drug users NEED it to anonymously purchase drugs in a relatively safe way. Therefore they understand Bitcoins.

2) U.S. online poker players NEED Bitcoin because most online Poker sites have banned U.S. registrants in order to retrieve their .com domains back from U.S. authorities who placed a federal ban on it.

Continue the list if you want, or just discuss..

Something I want to say though is, how is it conceivable that a law abiding average person would ever find Bitcoins useful in their life? For most, the switch is not worth the effort. Sure, they may vaguely understand that in theory it is better, but they are TOO LAZY to give a crap. They'd rather stick with the traditional system. What does this mean for Bitcoin? Will it die because humans are too lazy to utilize the use of this new technology? That on top of bad press, I really find it hard to imagine Bitcoin will progress on a natural course, when unnatural forces wage war against it.

People who want financial privacy need it :)

Everytime I read about the next country in Europe having big financal problems, I am glad to have some Bitcoins.

No one "needs" bitcoin the world will go right on spining with or without it. It is over valued for the size of the market and the amount of coins IMO.

Bitcoin is unbeatable for sending money across borders.

The world will keep spinning, with or without us.

How exactly do you draw your conclusion that Bitcoin is overvalued from this?

if this is suppose to be a thread to cause people to think bitcoin is useless..

i personally think bitcoin does not have one sole purpose but many, many micro purposes, that can fit the needs of many people for many different reasons

for example

why do you need shares in companies like apple? - to make profits
why do people need google news when a physical newspaper already exists? - because there is a limit to how much you can hold onto in one go with paper
why do people need to send SMS instead of posting a stamped envelope? - because travelling distances takes time compared to instant communication

now
why invest in bitcoins - to make profit
why use digital currency over paper FIAT - because there is a limit to how much you can hold onto in one go with paper
why dont you just send paper FIAT by post - because travelling distances takes time compared to instant communication

now lets add onto this list of real life things that exist which compare to the benefits of bitcoin.

I get that it is over valued because on one knows what it is and even fewer people care... the silkroad is the only thing that keeps btc afloat that and f!@#ing dice for some reason every idiot in the btc community likes to shooting dice like hood rats under a bridge or out back behind the liquor store.

Yeah I don't understand the obsession with playing a game with odds against you.

i guess you ignored the 20k+ LEGITIMATE businesses that have found bitcoins cheaper then accepting credit cards

i guess you ignored the many more legitimate bitmit independant traders selling t-shirts, GPU's finding bitcoins irreversibilty a benefit, compared to ebay chargeback scams when listing items

i guess you ignored the fact that i went on vacation and found getting foreign currency from a localbitcoin trader, easier and faster then transfering FIAT to a travel currency exchange shop.

what i do find strange is.. i find ants and bugs useless to my life.. yet i do not sign up to a insect forum posting hundreds of posts saying how useless they are........ but you are here??????

if its so useless to your life, why make it part of your life to become emotional about it enough to write these messages?

For the average person:

- It's easier and faster to pay someone on the other side of the globe than a bank wire transfer. So if you need to pay someone and you can't wait days till he has it, you need Bitcoin
- No chargebacks possible like with Paypal, so if you need to get paid and want to be completely sure the payment can never be reversed, by anybody, you need Bitcoin
- If you don't convert to fiat, no tax got to be paid on the money you earn. So if you would prefer not to give 60% of your wage away, you need Bitcoin.
- No inflation, I constantly hear people about how expensive everything has become. If you want a currency with no inflation, you need Bitcoin.
- Everybody knows, you can wake up one day and suddenly you don't have access to your own money anymore! So if you need to be sure to have always access to some digital money, you need Bitcoin.
- Most people here hate banks, billions of tax money have been pumped in the banks to safe them. Tens of billions is a lot for a country that has 11 million residents. If you don't want to use banks, you need Bitcoin.

20 years ago, if you would ask the average person if he needed a cellphone, he would probably say "no". Ask the same question now and you will get a "yes". It's not because they don't know they need it, that they don't need it. Just make clear to them, they really need it.  :P

- no more bounced checks
- no more ATM withdrawal fees
- no more credit card fraud/identity theft

It is not that I think it is worthless, just over valued the technology is what I am interested in not bitcoin itself... people here think it is about bitcoin it is not. It is about the technology, shaw 256 hashing. I dont care about bitcoin. I care about P2P currency of any type. I want individuals to have the money power not institutions.

i dont think its over valued.

put it this way. even though theres 7 billion people in the world. lets bring those numbers down to something more along the lines of minimal users right now.

lets say there are 1 million users.

we know theres many people (winkle twins) that invested millions into it. but lets keep things simple. lets say that every one of those 1 million people on average just invest 1 months wage... yep thats right, not their whole life savings. just one month wage..

1million x £$1000 = £$1billion

so even with this small amount of userbase and the small amount of average investment.. i think the valuation is not over valued at all..

if you did not mean financial value but feature and usability value. i can name you many gimmicks/items that only have one function that people value more then their pets, children and relationships.

I own an online store.

I am anally raped by Visa and Mastercard every month to the tune of $4,000 just for transaction fees.

Bitcoin would save my business nearly $50,000 a year, and I am a very small mom & pop sized shop.

Large businesses like Amazon.com would easily save hundreds of millions in fees.

I believe that it is merchants who will ultimately power the propogation of bitcoin to the masses.

You are correct.   Human beings are lazy, and in general, not very smart.  But they do like "fun stuff".  

And they like privacy.  Even if they're not breaking the law.

Being able to pay for something with their cell phone, even if its just a cup of coffee, without the NSA knowing about it, will be a big sell for many...
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=30346

Don't forget, customers also pay transaction fees, interest, late payment fees, and if they miss a payment?  Their credit is screwed for 7 years.  Think of all the ways that their credit card companies anally rape them, too...

-Burger-

First, a little story:

When the PC first came out, it was advertised as something a person could use to balance their checkbook and to store recipes on. I thought, "why would anyone buy a $2000 computer to balance their checkbook and store recipes?" I was convinced that the PC would fail as a consumer product. Obviously, I was wrong.

Many years later, I thought "you can use the internet to do online stock trading, and send email, and look up stuff, but the internet is not going to be useful to the average person." Again, I was horribly wrong.

The lesson here is that the fact that you can't see the value in something doesn't mean that there is no value. Please learn from my mistakes.

You'll never guess how i buy my coffee without NSA knowing about it!  Give up?  Ok, but don't tell anyone else -- this is seeecrit, just for spies like us:  I reach into my front pocket, and pull out some cash.  I leave a tip that the waitress can spend. :)

Obviously. 
I was comparing bitcoin to credit cards.  From the merchant perspective, and from the consumer perspective. 
I wasn't forgetting that cash exists.
You'll never guess how you could have figured that out on your own. 
Give up? 
Ok, but don't tell anyone else ... this is seeecrit, just for spies like us: 
Its called "context".

-Burger

You pay for a cup of coffee with plastic?  Do you add the tip on the card, too? :)

Yes, stop writing or accepting checks and start spending/accepting bitcoins and you no longer have to deal with bounced checks or waiting days to see if they clear.  


Yes, another bitcoin advantage that the OP can add to his list.


Credit is just a loan.  BTC loans exist.  We would still have credit.


Yes, stop using and accepting credit cards and start using bitcoins for your online transactions and you no longer have to deal with credit card fraud/identity theft.

You're joking, right?  All of the things listed above are *optional* for using fiat -- you don't have to use them if you don't want them.  If i started a Bitcoin service which, once you have registered for it, costs you 6 BTC a month & offers you *nothing*, will one of fiat's advantages be "you don't have to pay Crumbs every month"? :D

Of course all forms of payment are optional.  Money itself is optional.  You could live in a cave and eat wild berries and insects if you wanted to avoid using money altogether.

Bitcoin is just a better option than fiat.  It seems you are struggling to grasp this.

Bitcoin has all of the advantages that the costly fiat options have without the added expense.

 :D :D Lawdy!  You claim that Bitcoin is better because it doesn't have ATM fees.  I counter "that's because it doesn't have ATMs, silly!  If you don't like ATMs, don't use them -- pretend they don't exist. Fiat doesn't need ATMs to function, get it?"  I could point out that Bitcoin requires web access & a gadget to work, while all i need for fiat is a pocket without holes.  I can point out confirmation time, blockchain bloat, that no one accepts bitcoin, that *you can't buy a gallon of milk or a gallon of gas anywhere in the world* with bitcoin, but i let you slide -- i'm a nice guy :)

I think the lesson here is to always invest of tech that you dont don't think has potential. :D

I claim that Bitcoin is a better choice than fiat because you don't have to deal with the expense and hassle of withdrawing cash from your account before you can spend it.  With Bitcoin, your money is always right there in your pocket, accessible from your smartphone.  No need to go to an ATM or bank to make a withdrawal first.  Sure, you can pretend ATM's don't exist, but you still have to make a withdrawal to get the fiat into your pocket (unless you have an employer that pays you in physical fiat, vice the digital fiat).  Confirmation time and blockchain bloat are technical issues that will be addressed in time.  I'm not saying Bitcoin is perfect, just that it's more perfect than fiat.  These are just minor inconveniences compared to the enormous disadvantages of fiat.  As businesses become aware of Bitcoin's advantages, more and more of them will start accepting Bitcoin.  The transition doesn't happen overnight.

Being able to move across state lines with nothing but a code in your head.  Its difficult to cross into a new country with 100 oz of gold, but easy with 1000 btc.

 Those that are facing a 50% tax on estate taxes on their death. Wouldnt it be nice to give your children btc instead of stocks, cash, or land?  evasion if not reported, but not the dead guy's problem.

Would it be more effective to market Bitcoins to estate planners or to rich old people directly?

Where do you bank?  It costs me exactly 0 dollars & 00 pennies to use my bank's ATM.  There are thousands of them.  If you have to pay your bank to take out your money, *you're doing it wrong.*


When my phone battery is dead, when my phone is not on me, or when i want to spend my money any place other than 0 establishments accepting Bitcoin, here's what i do.  Ready?  Let's say i drove to a city with Bitcoin businesses:
I have a credit card and a debit card in my wallet, allowing me to spend my money in x1,000,000 more places than Bitcoin.  If i wish to shop in a place that takes Bitcoin?  No problem!  They take cash too.  Oh, forgot.  I also have some folding money & some change, so if i need to tip someone -- no problem, they *know* dollars. Road toll?  No problem.  Parking meter?  Done!  See how much fun i have with fiat?  I can even gas up my car!  Can you do that with Bitcoin?  Not yet -- stay home & wait for a better tomorrow :)


See above ^^^.  Please remember to thank me for teaching you how to use monyz, i'm saving you a bundle. (Protip:  Look for the ATMs with your bank's logo on them ;))


Right-o.  "It's all very scientific & complicated, don't worry your purty li'l head about it, we'll take care of it later" :D  Please.  ;)


I'm just saying you're wrong, and backing it up with examples.  If asking "can i pay in bitcoins?" gave me something other than blank stares or GTFO! in 99.99% of IRL, you might have a point.  'Till that happy day...


Let's stop pretending it already happened!  IRL people think we're either conning them, or we're a bit touched.  Let's acknowledge reality, and try to change it -- cheerleeding on this forum is pointless -- if you're here, you know & use BTC.

Mericans use credit cards because they live too far outside their means or they aren't paid enough to support their lifestyle. Foolish people exist on credit. Bitcoin isn't a replacement for credit it can be used to replace cash in some circumstances.

Well, to be fair no one actually uses their computers to balance their checkbooks or store recipes (And who even uses checkbooks anymore...)

Nothing that readers on this forum don't know, but how about for Americans that want some assets that is not under US control?

http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/foreign-banks-and-brokers-are-refusing-overseas-accounts-for-american-customers/

I don't pay ATM fees myself, but there are plenty of people that do pay them.  Bitcoin eliminates this needless expense for them.


If your battery is dead, you could use physical bitcoins.  Fiat doesn't have a monopoly on physical money.  Just because a business chooses to transact in fiat doesn't mean it's the better form of money.  Yes, we are all going to be stuck using fiat for quite a while longer, but as with any new technology, adoption will take some time.  We are still in the very early stages of the transition.  The infrastructure is being built, you just have to be patient.  As more and more people understand Bitcoin's advantages they won't just accept it, they will prefer it.



A person of your intellect is in no position to be teaching anyone anything.  You still have a lot to learn about how money works.  You're in the right place though, and that's a start.  There's plenty of people here that can get you up to speed.


I'm not worried about it all.  I'm confident that the free market will be able to easily overcome these challenges.  Bitcoin's issues pale in comparison to those of fiat currencies.  I'll take blockchain bloat and slow confirmations over quantitative easing and massive sovereign debt any day.


You have not yet provided a single example of how fiat is superior to Bitcoin.  You've only pointed out that more businesses are willing to accept an inferior form of money.  Again, that is because we are still early in this transition to honest, sound money.  It's going to take years.  Give it time.  Old habits die hard.


I'm not pretending anything has already happened.  Bitcoin has a long ways to go.  I acknowledge that.  The Wright brothers first flew a little over a hundred years ago.  We didn't get military jets, unmanned drones, spacecraft, satellites, commercial airliners, and airports in every city overnight.  It took time for the infrastructure to develop and for society to adapt to the new technology.  Same applies to Bitcoin.

• Wealthy people NEED Bitcoin as an unseizable, untraceable, automatically-internationalized option for storing wealth when push comes to shove.
• People working in rich countries to send money home to their families in poor countries NEED Bitcoin to maximize the welfare of their families. (The fees and delays can make a huge difference to people living hand-to-mouth).
• People using VPNs for anonymity NEED an anonymous payment option (Bitcoin + anonymity measures) in order not to make the whole thing pointless.
• Companies that have branch offices in other countries NEED Bitcoin to save money and time on remittance, and in some cases to even have a hope of being profitable.
• People fleeing (or considering fleeing) countries with draconian capital controls NEED Bitcoin to get their money out.
• People traveling abroad from any unstable country NEED Bitcoin as an insurance policy in case shit hits the fan back home while they're away.
• People who are at risk of being arrested, deported, or just having their assets frozen NEED Bitcoin as an insurance policy so they can still control their money from jail, abroad, or faced with government seizure.
• The power elite (Illuminati or whoever) NEED Bitcoin to store their wealth without relying on anyone to keep their secrets safe and move money with perfect secrecy behind the scenes.
• As Germany illustrates, governments NEED Bitcoin for trustless international settlement, as storing gold in the New York Fed's vaults isn't cutting it.
• Anyone who telecommutes internationally (translators, writers, editors, consultants, investment advisors, etc.) NEEDS Bitcoin to get money from their employers/clients quickly, with no fees, and with no third-party risks.
• Anyone that employs people internationally NEEDS Bitcoin to save on fees, get rapid payment verification, and eliminate third-party risks.
• Any parent who has to send money to their kids, especially abroad, and most especially in developing countries, NEEDS Bitcoin in order to save on fees and get the money to the kids quickly.
• Anyone who wants to sell content online to people many countries for sub-dollar prices per unit NEEDS Bitcoin to make this feasible at all.
• Anyone who wants to sell anything online from any country that is blocked by PayPal and the CC companies NEEDS Bitcoin in order to operate at all(!).
• The need for any of these is increased at least tenfold when the amounts of money dealt with are unusually large or small.
• Use your imagination! There are applications everywhere for a trustless, borderless, private, irreversible, unseizable commodity that can be teleported anywhere in the world in any amount virtually for free. The average Joe in the US doesn't need it (yet), but there are plenty of people and organizations who do, especially in less advanced countries. Not to mention all the things that people don't yet know they need because it wasn't until Bitcoin and other now-unfolding technologies that these things became possible.

Imagine, for example, paying 0.1 BTC to have a highly-rated expert mechanic in India walk you through how to fix your car over Google Glass, maybe even sending you the data file for a needed part to print out on your 3D printer and screw on. Nobody "needs" this now, since they can "just" have their car towed to the local garage and get it back in a few days for a "small" fee, assuming the local garage happens to be reliable and competent (remember, the Indian mechanic is an expert you probably chose from a website that has a solid rep system).  

Yes to basically all the above remarks plus :

1) BTC attacks the entire centralized finance / government monopoly system that relies on a constant flow of plunder to the state. That is why we need to move to BTC (and its variations).

2) BTC is also a natural progression in the scheme of things : the idea of information -> information tech -> computing -> internet -> social networking -> p2p finance... Not to belittle the efforts of Satoshi et al, but kind of inevitable (with hindsight) if one thinks about it.

Like all industry revolution in human history, typically it is the smartest people pay attention to new things first, and others will just follow when it has reached mainstream

- People who want to diversify their investment portfolio

- People who want to have part of their retirement saving in a liquid form

- People who understand how theft is done by printing fiat money and the unavoidable long term inflation of fiat money

- People who understand that the current debt based money creation will eventually collapse (The ultimate reason) and they are moving their wealth out of the current system before it is too late

- Merchant who want to have a low fee for their transaction

- Merchant who frequently do international commerce

- Bank haters, don't trust a centralized authority oversee the society

- Ancap

- Geeks

And many more  

It is the fiat money overvalued (cost nothing to produce), because people have no choice for other transaction medium, when they have some alternative, you will see how fast fiat money will depreciate against everything

With each reply, you bring on more fail.  Instead of gushing with thanks when told that you do not need to pay ATM fees, you reply with "Well, i don't pay ATM fees myself, but others do."  When i offer you concrete, objective technical shortcomings of Bitcoin, you reply with "I'm not worried ... free market yada yada derp."  After i point out that i can not even buy basics -- gasoline, electricity, milk, or cigarettes with Bitcoin, you tell me that i haven't offered you a single example of fiat being superior to Bitcoin.  
...And then you bring up the Wright Flier, completely forgetting that since the time of Ancient Greece, man has been trying to build flying machines.  Bitcoin could be any one of those iterations -- one in a series of limited successes (balloons) & endless fails.
Now concentrate on your learnings >:(  Keep your nose to the grindstone, all the cool kids are doing it!  It's perfectly safe, i promise.

Great, let's all do that. No one pays tax ever again. Yippeee.... Just like Amazon, Google, Apple in the UK.....

Then let's see how fast the infrastructure of the planet collapses.

 ;D

+1

What if a newer/better infrastructure financing method is invented?

- People who needed an unseizable trust fund before 

- People who needed a prenup before

- People who want to send money
(even if it's only like this cash=>exchange to BTC => send BTC => receive BTC => exchange to local currency)

- People who want to trade devisable assets without having the need to store any denomination of the currencies needed in the trade
(you may have cash with you but if you suddenly end up having to pay exactly 32.733 Dollars/Euro/Pound you might not be able to)

- People who want to travel with their money without restrictions (like there is in many countries for cash or bullion)

- Once the reoccuring payments are implemented in the client(s) it can be a very nice and easy way to divide your monthly income
=> kids' allowances, retirement savings, reserve fund for vacation, reserve fund for a new car, household expanses/groceries, etc.


 

Or they are responsible and use them as a zero cost loan for30 days and pay off the balance each month while earning rewards.

Heathen!  >:( Heretic!  >:( Witch!  >:( Good lord almighty, HAELP!  Burn the witch!

The whole world needs bitcoin because governments cannot be trusted to manage our money systems.

because people are willing to pay cash for it. and we can use that cash to buy other things we actually need like food and stuffs :P

People with open minds can see the potential of bitcoin. No one should control your money except you. When you actually take a step back and look at how much of your money goes to taxes and fees, even the average person, you start to see the potential. P2P finance is an infant and the nature of the system opens the doors to not only a currency revolution, but a P2P internet revolution where the people take back control of everything we should have controlled all along. Our money, our personal info, and our privacy.

More people will use bitcoins as soon as there are more ways to use them. I've never met a smart person that wasn't immediately interested in the potential of btc when I introduced them to it. To me it's a no-brainer. And the no-brainer is not that bitcoin will be the one global currency of the future. It's that this idea will be the base idea behind currency, communication and digital storage of information in the future. It may not be bitcoin, but it will be something like it. Maybe we will get a new version every few years like windows. who knows, but it really could empower the common people. Ive read this whole thread and there have been some really great arguments made in bitcoins favor. The only one for fiat is basically that's what everyone uses and you can avoid fees if your smart and the world will collapse if we stop paying taxes. Im not saying people should not pay taxes. But what if you knew exactly where the taxes you paid went and you could pay based on the benefits you received from tax monies locally within your local community? There's no reason why bitcoin (or something like it) couldn't eventually replace fiat altogether. And we already know fiat can't do what bitcoin can. We just need the market price to start a more stable growth pattern, make it super easy to use, make it way more easy to access, and keep coming up with gadgets and technology that allows you to do really cool news things with money and it will takeover. I have no doubt about that and I really feel like this is going to be the next big leap in how we interact with currency and people. The next big revolution and I am even more excited now than I was a year ago when I first heard about it.

.............and oh yeah if it does succeed, btc is gonna be worth a whole lot more than it is now........yeeehaaaw

LOL at the assertion that Bitcoin is immune to inflation or that BTC transfers are free

The fact that the network must be maintained by a large number of miners, with expensive hardware, who expect to be compensated, dictates otherwise

The compensation those miners receive comes from (1) dilution and (2) fees.  Sorry.  No free ride.

To date, early Bitcoin investors have been fortunate that the speculation has, so far, greatly exceeded the dilution resulting in a massively deflationary currency

Unfortunately, for anyone but the early investors, deflation stinks - see Japan

Lots of dangerous misconceptions in this thread. The only reason Bitcoin offers certain degree of anonymity is its obscurity and novelty.  If and when it gains traction,  block chain will become a data-mining heaven for corporations and governments.  At least it's open to all, so no unfair advantage there. Overall, you are delusional if you consider Bitcoin inherently anonymous, and quote anonymity as an answer to "why do I need Bitcoin?".


I need Bitcoin as a tool for instant, simple, affordable online payments. I need it as a store of value immune to arbitrary inflation by the self-appointed asses. I need it as a tool of financial transparency of corporations and governments.