Bitcoin Forum

Before I start please dont troll here. I am taking this seriously.

I believe the ethics of Bitcoin is powerful enough to drive a new Nation into power. I believe in the future we should create a Bitcoin Nation ( Im 13 right now, would like to wait till im older ;) The country would have no single leader, each citizen able to log into a secure P2P voting system to vote on important decisions. A Informer would be elected and their role would be to act in emergencies (During attack and a firing solution is required) and to inform the nation of new issues. I would also like to be the ultimate asylum for future Edward Snowdowns.

To start a Nation there is no specific paperwork or requirements but the 1933 Convention on the rights and duties of a state is a good starting point (http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897). Clause 1 is the most important, we would requires Territory, I believe we would crowdfund the purchase of a island ( Forcibly taking one could go wrong) and then declare ourselves a state. Then we need citizens, people who are bound there. The government is the entirety of the island but the final statement is complicated. You need to be recognised, this means holding your ground and having some sort of power. To be fully recognised we would have to join the UN meaning almost everywhere would be forced to recognise us.

Firstly, If I ever took this forward would YOU become a citizen and join the efforts, please answer nicely and no trolling. Also, Would this idea work? Improvements.

Regards
Noah Stride
State Pre-Organisation Informer.

If you had to choose between democracy and freedom, so that only one of those was primary, and the other was secondary, which should override the other?

Freedom of the people would overide democracy I think. When i said important decisions i meant pretty much all decisions except for like incoming nuke should we fire back. I was thinking a legislation requires 50 % of population to pass. Also thinking anybody could create a legislation. LawBook. There would definately be no PRISM.

So would anyone be allowed to join this new "nation" and become a citizen? IF so, I see a few things right there that would prevent people from joining. Secondly, being of immigrant parents , and born in the USA I have come to notice my parents immigrated for a reason ... to give me a better life.

Now that I am in the work force and see the state of my homeland of Greece (or my parents if you want to say that) what would I be doing there? They came over here to make My life better .. why would I come join this new "nation" if I do not see any benefit to my family when I have one?


Long and short, starting a nation , I'm assuming, is harder then a successful startup. Not only would you have to ensure the people becoming citizens bring value to this "nation" but you would obviously have to offer a myriad of services to ensure that.


Kosta

+1

this is like the 5th time someone has tried to propose a bitcoin island without going beyond the land purchase and utopian ideologies. no thought plans on utility's such as: electric/ clean water / sewerage / housing / telephone-internet / and of course housing development.

if anyone is truly interested in such a project its better to work in a area that is already developed, such as the new hampshire project. where the only thing that needs to be messed around with is the laws.

bitcoin islands are normally linked by law to a neighbouring continent/mainland. although islands are less policed compared to the mainland, the laws still apply. so there is no difference from the point of view of law between an island and a state.

if you dont think this is true. check out Richard bransons private island. it has to follow the same laws as all the other islands in the british virgin islands. For instance. wanting to get married. by law of the british virgin islands the couple have to be on the island 3 days prior to the ceremony.

http://www.neckerisland.virgin.com/

so even though richard branson bought the island and has set his own personal rule that it is invite only. he still has to obey the laws of the area.

Living on an island is expensive.  You don't produce much, if anything, and have to get everything imported.  Unless you're already doing business on the mainlands, you're better off staying there.

I look forward to you trying to convince a country that just because you bought some property in that country, you have the right to revolt and secede. Good luck with that.

strideynet I suggest you continue your pursuit of knowledge, especially figuring how what is right and what is wrong, and why. Use philosophy to get to the root of the issue, build your models on ideas as words have evolved to aid in confusion rather than clarity.

Mali's GDP is over $10 billion dollars and they are one of the most terrible countries (HDI speaking).

The freedom vs democracy question wording confused me and this idea is still in early planning stages. I understand it would cost incredible amounts to get started and to create infrastructure. My main purpose of this post is to gather people's thoughts who would consider living there. There would be a border security system and the requirements to enter would be decided later. The thing is, there is nothing to declare being a country. Why is Korea a country? They areant part of the UN which is the largest factor. It's because they each held their ground and have reached news in the past hundred years. Yu don't have to live under the rules of the island if you can defend in court that it is its own island. This means physically keeping territory, no homeland services being used. I also understand that islands have little to no export which is pretty bad and creates terrible economy. Little land for farming etc. I also believed islands were the best approach rather then all guns lazing and starting to take over a corner of America killing all police officers on the way.

Again, this is the earliest stage. I could in the future hold a island with 50 people. I wanted ideas and what kinds of people would come there. I can see a majority of bitcoin users meaning a software industry. Prior to initiating a country I was looking into creating a company with crowd funded money and then selling chunks of the island into a development contract generating a lot of money back into the company.

Thanks for providing criticism :)

It's just worth pointing out that they are two separate things.

Indeed. democracy gives them a selection of choices if im correct but freedom is a anarchic sense. I would rather have some law.

Well, you got a choice: you can either have freedom, or you can have democracy.  Law, however, is not necessarily tied to monogovernment.

Democracy. Atleast make collective choices the right way. Democracy in the sense of everybody voting but not in the UK government sense where you elect a leader. Here we have no leader, everybody decides on everything.

This is known as a direct democracy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy)

As someone pointed out, you're far from the first person to suggest this.

Perhaps look at other people who are doing it and try and help them.

One similar project that springs to mind (more business targeted) is blueseed.

They've already secured a few million $$ funding and appear to have put some thought into a lot of the issue with ideas like this. Although I'm going to avoid counting my chicks before they've hatched and will believe it when it sets sail.

A Bitcoin country has been discussed many times before. It wont happen. Bitcoin is decentralised, country's are centralised!

Here is a short list of options:

• Tuvalu: no
• Tonga: no
• Pitcoin Islands: no
• Marshall Islands: no
• Micronesia: no
• Kiribati: no
• Greenland: ?
• Iceland:   all the way...
• Nauru: another  no
• Vatican City: no
• Monaco: no
• San Marino: no
• Enclaves and Exclaves like Karki, Barkhudarli and Yukhari Askipara   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclave_and_exclave :no
• Slab City: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vVCSUafFVI:  no
• Freetown Christiania;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania:  no
• Principality of Hutt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hutt_River:  no
• http://www.wirtland.com/:   no feedback?
• http://chartercities.org/concept:   no ?
• http://www.seasteading.org/:   no, should be
• http://blueseed.co/:   no, maybe
• Create country: no
• Others: well.........

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius#Current_terrae_nullius

I see this as a better option in a technology rich era where this was not possible in the years before us. With the latest security and technology updates we can have instant response systems and this is easily and cheaply achieved. People need the power, that was the idea of democracy. But as seen before it never works. Governments run secret programs spying on their citizens. This will not happen here unless we the citizens vote for it ;).

Thanks for informing me on this and becoming a active poster. I sincerely hope that the Nation could be taken seriously in ten years time. I am making it my life goal. But to do this I need to find a export. Something to drive the economy unless we want pole taxes to be high enough to sustain the infrastructure (Roads, Telephonics (Fibre is the only way forward)) I want to create a technology rich nation and not be crushed by the powers. Another problem is finding people to defend us. To be a nation we must become independent, the current nation will probably not like this and we will have to apply for safety under the help of another country. I doubt many people want to risk gun charges by the previous state owner when we are forced to destroy incoming enemy vessels attempting to recapture the island... The obvious way to do this is get UN recognisability immediatialy or inform them prior to the capture of the island about your actions.

If anyone knows a company that does underwater cable etc or other infrastructure elements can you post here about prices etc. I want to get a estimated cost of this thing. Though just the island will cost over a few million euros if we want substantial land. Then we can earn money back through selling prime property (Beach) to developers.

I understand its been tried before but some things take more research to complete. I can see this being organised taking twenty odd years to perfect.

This country already exists, it is HERE

A country does not need to be physically exist, it is just a group of people with similar value/political view, and their own financial system. With the help of internet, a borderless country will provide much higher degree of flexibility

although the UK and USA have leaders, your comments are flawed. in the UK most laws go through a process of being briefed in the halls of parliament firstly by the 'house of commons' which is basically the members of parliament and then by the 'house of lords' so most laws have to be agreed by a multitude of people before being signed off officially as being law.

the problem is not to do with who makes the law, its about bribery.
did you know in 2012 there were flights paid for using the governments stationary budget. these flights are not suppose to be first class. but infact were. the total sum of these flight procurements amounted to £77MILLION pounds and which when digging deeper into the numbers was 10x the amount of the same flight booked from standard travel agents.

the destinations, you would think would be international trading partners... but no. the destinations in over 80% were exotic islands, las vegas, and other 'resort' based destinations.

so how does one get a law passed without there being one single entity in power, but a group? simple.. send the main group of people that turn up to parliament meetings on exotic holidays, all inclusive and with expenses included. and then word the law in such a mystic way that it sounds morally useful to have.

so how does one get a law passed without there being one single entity in power, but an entire nation voting? simple... look at at the demograph of the population and find those critically large groups of people. word a law that sounds morally useful to them, and a few of the other minority demographs and have it mystically intangled with the true purpose law you seek.

EG.
minimum wage: every employee is by law entitled to a minimum wage of £6.20, sounds great yea, now that makes everyone think that they wont be treated as slaves being paid £1 an hour... the mystic part.. well now everyone in the nation has to, by law be paid in pounds,  not favours, not chickens, not holidays..not bitcoins. (unless they are perks/bonuses ontop of standard wage)

Interesting post frankie. Indeed ethnic minorities will exist creating a problem but laws passed should be for the good of the majority. Most laws are bad for someone, thats the way they work. Interesting about the lords though. Considering that these days they have little power over what they had. They cant really reject it anymore.

Well, I doubt bribery could happen in a bitcoin nation where absolute transperency is the main idea. Full finance reports would be published to the finest detail. The wording of the law is interesting aswell, but no society will ever be perfect. Infact, if thsi idea goes forward its not gonna be dream island. Life wont be perfect to the finest detail. It will not be a utopian sosciety but a alternative many people would prefer. I doubt we will all be drinking cocktails on the beach.

The bottom line is that giving every person the right to vote is unfair, you hear people bitching about the 1% owning 70% of the assets but you never hear about the 52% robbing the 48% of basic human rights.

There's a faction of Vermonters trying to build support for secession from the Union. Maybe that's a good starting point.

http://vermontrepublic.org/

i never mentioned ethnicity..  my 'demograph' was more to do with finding the large groups of people.. EG if the largest group of PEOPLE are of working age, then you would tailor laws for workers. if it was pensioners you would tailor economic laws to be around minimum FIAT pension amounts.
and if the majority groups were parents you would tailor laws around child benefit/credits/foodstamps to be paid in fiat.

nothing to do with ethnicity


+1

but to put all this aside. buying an island is like 1% of the worry. as i said before converting a vacent island into homes, offices all with functional utilities. that is a bigger thing to achieve and require thinking about. and even then as i said no matter who 'governs' the island. they cannot simply delete the laws of the neighbouring mainland. they can however add more laws which suite the islands purpose.

i would personally far prefer to be involved in the new hampshire project. which is already moving forward and already has the housing/office space problems sorted. and is now working on what it can / cannot control in regards to the laws of the continent. (simply put US law)

What if everybody decides to imprison old ladies who don't turn over their money ?

As long as everybody voted to do it first, does that make it okay?

What about if 10 guys walking down the street decide to beat up a nerd and steal his backpack?

Is that okay, as long as those ten guys took a vote first?

Thats the flaw of everything though. Atleast here half the country or more has to agree to the cause. So yeah, if the half the country agrees you got the right to beat him up. But, not alot of people will agree with that and i doubt i want those kinda people in the nation. You can delete the laws of the neighbouring mainland if you maintain you are a separate nation. If when the cops come you beat em up and say this is my nation and you have no powers of arrest here. Sure, they will probably send more guys. But if for a week you fend em off they leave you alone. So, if giving everyone the right to vote is unfair should we have the same amount of people from each ethnic/demographic group then. What if those select can be bribed...

bad idea...

im beginning to laugh. this is as entertaining as finshaggys brain farts.

so imagine this.

the mass population of your island is bitcoiners. we all know the demograph of MOST bitcoiners(computer/businessmen). then there are the minority of bitcoiners that want freedoms enough to risk their lives for. these are the basement dwelling armchair activists that believe in the illuminati and rothchilds. the ones that want to smoke weed freely, the ones that are teenagers and spend 98% of their lives on a computer.

so now we have a mainland such as USA sending an army of specially trained soldiers in high speed boats with fully loaded automatic weapons........., vs the islanders riot squat (armchair activists) who have never fired a gun outside of the 'call of duty' game world.

hmmmm yea great plan.

Okay. Im gonna get this post locked. I wanted to try something here but it's s hard to find people who want to give good suggestions. No offense but wasn't worth me trying.